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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.05.03 07:12:00 - [91] Pulse lasers and gank setups have done more to screw with balance than anything else in this game. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
keepiru	Posted - 2005.05.03 07:29:00 - [92] Originally by: Gunsnroses gankagedon nerf was needed. But as usual CCP ****s up. Arma still owns all, but you screwd everyother amarr ship in game. Apoc is useless, ints are useless, omen useless, maller useless, zealot useless........ Why? well.. it's not QUITE* that catastrophic... but they werent particualry useful before, and this certainly hasnt helped... it was a compound of many things... for one med beam fitting requirements are BROKEN. this could be handily ignored while med pulse could hit outside of web range, but now the fact that amarr tech II figates are incapable of any decent fitting with long-range weapons comparable to the other races abilities is sadly apparent. the sacrilege has always been a hopeless case damage-wise, and 'nuff said. the zealot was... balanced, surprisingly enough. and now its not. not by THAT much. but its not. literally every amarr tech I ship without a damage mod - which is to say, all bar the geddon and omen - were weak before hand, bar a sniperpoc, and now they.. theyre just meh. and the geddon is till the only bs i'd fly in pvp, if i didnt so hate being strapped into something that handles like a mobile home with armor plating and worn tires. ------------- Originally by: Gnauton It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
AlphA13	Posted - 2005.05.03 11:11:00 - [93] It¦s not about creating a second pre-nerf gankageddon, it¦s about making the Zealot a ship that can defend it¦s self against smaller ships. It¦s not the dmg/s that needs a boost, it¦s the versability ( correct spelled ??). deimos is ok as it is imo ishtar aswell.. but Zealot( 300-500m¦drone) eagle (5th turret slot but keep the 6 high)needs this small boost.. Hell if I train for a ship a long time it should be be perform close to the race equivalents.. not uber omg pwne, but ok . In two days tomorrow will be yesterday
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.05.03 11:46:00 - [94] I am looking at the Zealot't fitting. I cannot for the life of me figure out what is wrong with it's fitting capacity. It has 200 more PG than Deimos, and it has about the same CPU (considering pulse lasers use about same PG but less CPU than blasters...). More low slots, and same med slots. It doesn't need an MWD. If you add a hardpoint, then it'll absolutely******any other cruiser sized ship in game. And if it is given 1000 m3 drones... well sooner or later you'll all realize that drones aren't all that great. Considering how many actually forget to launch them, how unreliable they are, as well as how easy to loose (most people loose them by warping out) - go ahead, give it a drone bay of less than 1000 m3! Oh, and it's longer ranged as well as faster. The devs did state there's a reason they did nothing to it when they changed the pulses... I think it was something about owning TomB's Deimos or something. Now, the Caldari Eagle has some issues worth discussing. And the Cerberus will get rebalanced along with all missile ships (such as Sacriledge) -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:06:00 - [95] Edited by: LUKEC on 03/05/2005 12:08:45 look, who can fend intys better? Depends on inty, really. Blastertaranis going after deimos is just uber stupid or has some ace in sleeve(dunno what, though). In 99% he will just die. Same situation with railtaranis going after zealot. Orbit at 11km and you get wtf nosfed... orbit at more - you actually get hit. If zealot gets drone bay, it should be 300m3 max. Enough for 6light drones. Oh and don't forget that you get like 15x range of deimos with zealot.(1800m vs 26km... and you can switch ammo, which is not really the case with blasters). Oh and with x-ray you have like 15km optimal and with gamma like 13km+ 4km falloff. And dmg done with gamma is not all that lower than that of multis. And blasters on deimos are damaging only under 5km, but true dmg comes only under 2.5km. Now if 13km is just above blaster range... And zealot with beams >>>deimos with rails. More dps, better tracking, better range... better everything. And they actually fit better than 250mm rails on deimos.(Though fitting those to deimos is sin) And about five guns on eagle: forget it. 4 are just enough, you can tank that ***** better than raven. And just one more little thing: which race has best bs-s? Gallente definitely not. So let em have best HACs. EDIT: eagle is just fine, just fit into role caldari bs-s should be in. Let the flaming begin.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:28:00 - [96] Just a question. Why are you comparing Blasters with Antimatter to Heavy Pulse with Infrared (Radio, if its not on a HAC) Whats the range with Heavy Ion IIs, on a Deimos with lvl4 HAC and using Iron ammo? (I know Zealot gets roughly 37 with HAC 5) /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:33:00 - [97] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Does the Deimos need its 1000m3 drone bay? Without it, it would perform quite similarly to a Zealot, yet it still has the drone bay. How can you simply say it doesn't need it? I think it does. err gallante are famous for drones maybe? ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:35:00 - [98] Yes, and Amarr are famous for turrets. /me points at Zealot /me points at Deimos /me points at Muninn /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:37:00 - [99] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Yes, and Amarr are famous for turrets. /me points at Zealot /me points at Deimos /me points at Muninn Is it my fault you get caught within 10km of webbing range of a demoius. Instead fit the following things to counter, web & mwd. And also try not to get close. Your asking for death if you get close to a demios, warp out if hes close. I don't beleive how lazy amarr pilots are ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:38:00 - [100] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Pulse lasers and gank setups have done more to screw with balance than anything else in this game. too true. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:40:00 - [101] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Just a question. Why are you comparing Blasters with Antimatter to Heavy Pulse with Infrared (Radio, if its not on a HAC) Whats the range with Heavy Ion IIs, on a Deimos with lvl4 HAC and using Iron ammo? (I know Zealot gets roughly 37 with HAC 5) about that, it's pointless using any other ammo with blasters. Pulses however get the extra range. The blaster pilots need mwd's to get close while the pulses guys can fit something else cause they can choose their range. Fit an mwd problem solved. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:42:00 - [102] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/05/2005 12:43:18 Originally by: Kaeten Is it my fault you get caught within 10km of webbing range of a demoius. Instead fit the following things to counter, web & mwd. And also try not to get close. Your asking for death if you get close to a demios, warp out if hes close. I don't beleive how lazy amarr pilots are So, to counter the downsides of a shortrange setup, i have to start fitting thesemyself. Yes, that makes sense. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:43:00 - [103] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: KaetenIs it my fault you get caught within 10km of webbing range of a demoius. Instead fit the following things to counter, web & mwd. And also try not to get close. Your asking for death if you get close to a demios, warp out if hes close. I don't beleive how lazy amarr pilots are [:roll: So, to counter the downsides of a shortrange setup, i have to start fitting thesemyself. Yes, that makes sense. thats what we gallante pilots have done for the last err whole game. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
MadGaz	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:53:00 - [104] Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: KaetenIs it my fault you get caught within 10km of webbing range of a demoius. Instead fit the following things to counter, web & mwd. And also try not to get close. Your asking for death if you get close to a demios, warp out if hes close. I don't beleive how lazy amarr pilots are [:roll: So, to counter the downsides of a shortrange setup, i have to start fitting thesemyself. Yes, that makes sense. thats what we gallante pilots have done for the last err whole game. Do you actually fly a zealot?? No???? exactly... ------------------------------------------
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.03 12:56:00 - [105] Originally by: MadGaz Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: KaetenIs it my fault you get caught within 10km of webbing range of a demoius. Instead fit the following things to counter, web & mwd. And also try not to get close. Your asking for death if you get close to a demios, warp out if hes close. I don't beleive how lazy amarr pilots are [:roll: So, to counter the downsides of a shortrange setup, i have to start fitting thesemyself. Yes, that makes sense. thats what we gallante pilots have done for the last err whole game. Do you actually fly a zealot?? No???? exactly... hes complaining about that zealots can't gank everything liek they did. He now has to use his head instead of f1, f2... etc. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.05.03 13:06:00 - [106] This whole nonsense about the Ishtar being over-powered - drones might be reliable in a one-on-one situation, but what if a friend warps in? What if you have to quickly warp out and fight somewhere else? Are you going to wait for your sluggish drones to meander all the way back to the mother-craft? The Ishtar is a fantastic tactical ship, and extremely useful against other HAS in a one-on-one, just don't bring it to the fight if you know they're gonna have their friends with them... Battle Angels Inc - The Movie
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.03 13:29:00 - [107] Originally by: Dash Ripcock This whole nonsense about the Ishtar being over-powered - drones might be reliable in a one-on-one situation, but what if a friend warps in? What if you have to quickly warp out and fight somewhere else? Are you going to wait for your sluggish drones to meander all the way back to the mother-craft? The Ishtar is a fantastic tactical ship, and extremely useful against other HAS in a one-on-one, just don't bring it to the fight if you know they're gonna have their friends with them... another example to why gallante hacs are not over powering. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.05.03 13:52:00 - [108] Kaeten, would adding 500m3 drone bay to Zealot enable it to 'gank everything'?
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.05.03 13:54:00 - [109] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Kaeten, would adding 500m3 drone bay to Zealot enable it to 'gank everything'? would not adding screw it totaly up and leave ubeg *** pointless noob ship that cant kill a thing? B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:09:00 - [110] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 03/05/2005 14:18:51 Quote: would not adding screw it totaly up and leave ubeg *** pointless noob ship that cant kill a thing? I think so, yes (nicely dodged question though). Every other ship comes with inty defense in the form of drones or missiles, and some of those have better weapons than the Zealot - I can't see a reason why it shouldn't get something to level the playing field. I love how these threads bring out people who have absolutely nothing worthwhile to add, but will shoot down a proposed boost just because they don't want to face the boosted ship. Does 500m3 drone bay scare you all so much? Would adding 500m3 drone bay to Zealot make it 'gank everything'?
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Quote: would not adding screw it totaly up and leave ubeg *** pointless noob ship that cant kill a thing? I think so, yes. Every other ship comes with inty defense in the form of drones or missiles, and some of those have better weapons than the Zealot - I can't see a reason why it shouldn't get something to level the playing field. I love how these threads bring out people who have absolutely nothing worthwhile to add, but will shoot down a proposed boost just because they don't want to face the boosted ship. Does 500m3 drone bay scare you all so much? /me looks at thread title.... ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Seto Mazzarotto	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:18:00 - [112] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I think so, yes. Every other ship comes with inty defense in the form of drones or missiles, and some of those have better weapons than the Zealot - I can't see a reason why it shouldn't get something to level the playing field. I love how these threads bring out people who have absolutely nothing worthwhile to add, but will shoot down a proposed boost just because they don't want to face the boosted ship. Does 500m3 drone bay scare you all so much? <-- fears the 5 Hammerheads of Doom. ----------- Fighting for the ideals of freespace, posthuman ethics, and rock & roll.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:22:00 - [113] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 03/05/2005 14:18:51 Quote: would not adding screw it totaly up and leave ubeg *** pointless noob ship that cant kill a thing? I think so, yes (nicely dodged question though). Every other ship comes with inty defense in the form of drones or missiles, and some of those have better weapons than the Zealot - I can't see a reason why it shouldn't get something to level the playing field. I love how these threads bring out people who have absolutely nothing worthwhile to add, but will shoot down a proposed boost just because they don't want to face the boosted ship. Does 500m3 drone bay scare you all so much? Would adding 500m3 drone bay to Zealot make it 'gank everything'? dude...look at Eagle, no dronebay..dont dont come here with HE GOT missile thing, they are useless vs MWD frigs, same goes for cerberus... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:31:00 - [114] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 03/05/2005 14:33:35 Wrong. Missiles can be hell for an inty, if you say different, you're delusional. Answer that one question. Would adding 500m3 drone bay make Zealot own everything snip? trolling/flaming removed - Sherkaner
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:42:00 - [115] Yeah but you're not backing your reasoning with anything, so your argument doesn't really hold water. It's firmly established that a Deimos has better firepower than a Zealot, and still gets 1000m3 drones. Muninn is brutal and it gets both drones and missiles. It's also firmly established that every HAC but the Zealot gets some form of anti inty weaponry along with its primary weapons and here you are with your fingers in your ears screaming "NO NO NO" for no reason I can discern. Oh well, about status quo for my threads.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:46:00 - [116] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yeah but you're not backing your reasoning with anything, so your argument doesn't really hold water. It's firmly established that a Deimos has better firepower than a Zealot, and still gets 1000m3 drones. Muninn is brutal and it gets both drones and missiles. It's also firmly established that every HAC but the Zealot gets some form of anti inty weaponry along with its primary weapons and here you are with your fingers in your ears screaming "NO NO NO" for no reason I can discern. Oh well, about status quo for my threads. what does deimos got to do with it?? zealot Got much longer range, momental ammo swap, great tank/damage, much faster then deimos... ok, whats eagles defence agains frigs? cerb? and NO missiles sux vs frigs(intys especialy) B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:50:00 - [117] and yes zealot go defence agains frigs, ever heard of tracking mods? target painters? or even webs? B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:51:00 - [118] It has everything to do with it. See, the way you answer the following question shows us whether you're arguing out of genuine concern for game balance, or whether you just want to make a proposed boost sound as bad as possible so it doesn't happen to serve your own purposes. So answer. Would adding 500m3 drone bay to Zealot make it overpowered? It's half the drone bay a Deimos has, and no-one has problems with the Deimos, even though its primary weapon (blaster) firepower is like, 40% higher than a Zealot according to TomB's graphs.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:57:00 - [119] Edited by: Eyeshadow on 03/05/2005 15:02:06 flaming removed - Sherkaner any missile smaller than a cruise is no problem to any ceptor at all. If u get caught by hvy/lights out of web range u deserve to be shot. Your entire basis for this argument is that zealot has no ceptor defense. Is that correct? Cos if it is, stfu now. I want some way to kill claws/stilletos/crows and any other long range ceptor that hangs outside web range when im in my blaster setup deimos if you get ur 500 drone bay. And please dont give me the medium drone bull**. Without a web, medium drones are of absolutely no use against long range ceptors. damage output of zealot is on a par with deimos but you have the extra range to play with. If we're talking real life setups, the deimos will run anti matter, not iron or any other ammo (unless their a noob or think it may provide some advantage cos it dont). that gives him an optimal of ~2km and a fairly tasty fall off of ~7km with decent skill. Zealot can hit at 25km+. THAT is the single most important thing to remember. Yes ur dmg output may blow at that range with radio/microwave BUT you can do dmg at that range, my blaster setup deimos is still sucking cap to try and get in range and chances are it wont. I really dont see this argument having valid points. They both do what they do, and do it well. Both deal shed loads of damage for a cruiser. Zealot v deimos in a real life battle prolly aint gonna happen and even it did, an ishtar, 1on1, would****the pair of them easily which isnt overpowered. Its main offense is easily destroyed with 1 smartie or if the ishtar has to bail out quickly it will lose it all. THAT is the price you pay for the dmg output that it can dish. The price the zealot pays for not having deimos dmg is that it can deal it at a lot longer range. As for 500m3 drone bay being overpowered? Probably not, but its also pointless as the zealot doesnt need it Forums: Sharks - MC
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:58:00 - [120] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu It has everything to do with it. See, the way you answer the following question shows us whether you're arguing out of genuine concern for game balance, or whether you just want to make a proposed boost sound as bad as possible so it doesn't happen to serve your own purposes. So answer. Would adding 500m3 drone bay to Zealot make it overpowered? It's half the drone bay a Deimos has, and no-one has problems with the Deimos, even though its primary weapon (blaster) firepower is like, 40% higher than a Zealot according to TomB's graphs. and you'r awoidning this " why doez zealot need dronbay when there are other who doesnt have it either?" and have firepower like 90%less then zealot B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"

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