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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:10:00 -
[31]
so not compare it with tempest? i mean use it in purely dmg setups.
what about setup i posted above?
-=-
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:37:00 -
[32]
Another Advantage to not forget is the range bonus, which means your EMP L is far more useful that it is on the Tempest.
Does the Tempest's dmg bonus keep up with the ammo dmg multiplier difference? Dont forget the Rate of Fire. Oh and the two low slots you can dedicate to Gyro IIs and still maintain a decent tank.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:32:00 -
[33]
I'm inclined to think that phoon wont be the best gank platform. But any ship with a setup that understands it's optimal ranges and limitations, etc, will perform the task under the right conditions. A phoon might need help from a friend but that doesn't mean it's not able to lay out some nice damage.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:37:00 -
[34]
well tempest have 6 low, and phoon got 7....
so that 1 slot plus to low and one slot minus from med.
-=-
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:43:00 -
[35]
Yeah I goofed on the Temp's slotting 
Tempest 8/5/6
Typhoon 8/4/7
The Typhoon tank is arguably better than the Tempest's, tho the Tempest can do either tank style reasonably well.
In any case, taking the standard Temp sniper and comparing it to a phoon sniper, Im betting the math is ultimately with the phoon. Just like it is on the geddon.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:47:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Yeah I goofed on the Temp's slotting
Tempest 8/5/6
Typhoon 8/4/7
The Typhoon tank is arguably better than the Tempest's, tho the Tempest can do either tank style reasonably well.
In any case, taking the standard Temp sniper and comparing it to a phoon sniper, Im betting the math is ultimately with the phoon. Just like it is on the geddon.
I think you aren't taking into account ship bonuses, not to mention, as the others have stated, the fact that you can only do 4 guns on the phoon. But I will not likely ever be convinced that either minnie ship is BEST as a sniper. Upclose with emp and managing tranversal is where I think the gank action is at :)
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Moridan
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:49:00 -
[37]
At range the tempest is gonna win hands down every time.
The tempest can sheild tank, carry 6 1400s, and have 4 or so Gyros. Not to mention do 25% more damage a shot.
4x1400s on a Phoon doesn't leave room for .. anything.
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:54:00 -
[38]
add to 25% also surgical and other skills.....
youll get about 70% bonus overall versus ~50% phoons
-=-
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Cummilla
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Yeah I goofed on the Temp's slotting
Tempest 8/5/6
Typhoon 8/4/7
The Typhoon tank is arguably better than the Tempest's, tho the Tempest can do either tank style reasonably well.
In any case, taking the standard Temp sniper and comparing it to a phoon sniper, Im betting the math is ultimately with the phoon. Just like it is on the geddon.
I think you aren't taking into account ship bonuses, not to mention, as the others have stated, the fact that you can only do 4 guns on the phoon. But I will not likely ever be convinced that either minnie ship is BEST as a sniper. Upclose with emp and managing tranversal is where I think the gank action is at :)
Actually its the bonuses Im basing all this on hehe :P
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Cummilla
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Yeah I goofed on the Temp's slotting
Tempest 8/5/6
Typhoon 8/4/7
The Typhoon tank is arguably better than the Tempest's, tho the Tempest can do either tank style reasonably well.
In any case, taking the standard Temp sniper and comparing it to a phoon sniper, Im betting the math is ultimately with the phoon. Just like it is on the geddon.
I think you aren't taking into account ship bonuses, not to mention, as the others have stated, the fact that you can only do 4 guns on the phoon. But I will not likely ever be convinced that either minnie ship is BEST as a sniper. Upclose with emp and managing tranversal is where I think the gank action is at :)
Actually its the bonuses Im basing all this on hehe :P
But the only kind of bonuses that really matter are the damage bonuses. Minnie BS 5 is much > another low slot for damage mod.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:08:00 -
[41]
I'll run the numbers for the same range setup, keep in mind 50% range bonus means the phoon doesnt need to use ammo as weak as the Tempest does.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
I'll run the numbers for the same range setup, keep in mind 50% range bonus means the phoon doesnt need to use ammo as weak as the Tempest does.
But it will deal almost same dmg as tempest over distances since tempest will catch up with dmg bonus and 2+ turrets.
-=-
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
I'll run the numbers for the same range setup, keep in mind 50% range bonus means the phoon doesnt need to use ammo as weak as the Tempest does.
But it will deal almost same dmg as tempest over distances since tempest will catch up with dmg bonus and 2+ turrets.
Are you keeping in mind the RoF bonus too?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:49:00 -
[44]
Tempest can still use emp. Optimal will be ~34 ish vs. longer for the phoon, but the focus here is damage without differentiating between somehow "safer damage" versus more risk "closerup damage." Safety can be managed through tactics and teamwork at any range.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.05.05 20:27:00 -
[45]
btw if tanking phoon...what type to tank?
thermal + kinetic?
-=-
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 20:35:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
I'll run the numbers for the same range setup, keep in mind 50% range bonus means the phoon doesnt need to use ammo as weak as the Tempest does.
But it will deal almost same dmg as tempest over distances since tempest will catch up with dmg bonus and 2+ turrets.
Are you keeping in mind the RoF bonus too?
Gah, I'm a noob sometimes , really has been too long since I've flown a BS =/
Temp has RoF and Dmg bonus, phoon only has RoF and range. But I'll run the numbers anyway.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 20:39:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
btw if tanking phoon...what type to tank?
thermal + kinetic?
The best tank is all 4 unless you know for certain what you are up against.
4 Active Hardeners, 2 Repairers, and 1 Wild Card mod.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.05 21:06:00 -
[48]
Well if the Tempest didnt have the RoF bonus like I forgot, it would be a lot closer, but this is how my math worked out:
Tempest
25% RoF
25% damage
Typhoon
25% RoF
50% Range
Armed with 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I (5.75x dmg mod, 23.625 RoF <-base)
Typhoon 4x 1400mm with EMP L (44 base dmg) (RoF mod 17.7)
1012 per salvo
3440.8 DPM
Tempest 6x 1400mm with Depleted Uranium L (36 base dmg) (RoF mod 17.7)
1552.5 per salvo
5278.5 DPM
So yeah, the Tempest is king...makes you wonder why the Typhoon has that range bonus tho, maybe it needs both a Projectile and a Launcher RoF bonus.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.05.05 21:22:00 -
[49]
Ok my setup now as follows:
4x Siege + 4x Nosferatu
1x Sensor Booster, 1x Web, 1x Disruptor, 1x Cap Recharger
1x Armor Rep, 1x Thermal, 1x Kinetic, 1x Explosive, 1x Cap Power Relay(-10 boosting +20% cap recharge), 1x PDU, 1x RCU
Cant fit 4th hardener, short CPU wise :( ~15-18 units
-=-
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Ohotnik
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Posted - 2005.05.05 21:51:00 -
[50]
nice math but typhoon is left with 2 extra launcher slots over tempest after this calculation. No argument that tempest is a fast damage king, but after adding some weapons in those slots, its possible to get those 2 in much closer. (i think)
of cause PG would be a problem there... there is no easy life in eve :)
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Drofier Ilmatti
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Posted - 2005.05.05 22:20:00 -
[51]
Typhoon doesn't have grid to fit a full rack of 1400's, and the range bonus just makes up for lack of damage bonus. This is because the Typhoon is a short range ship. The range bonus helps autocannons quite a bit, and there is no fitting issue with them like there is with 1400s. And you have high base speed to play with short range.
6x 800mm, 2x Siege
2x Sensor Booster, 1x 20k Disruptor, 1x either Large t2 Shield booster or tracking computer
5x Gyro II, 1x RCU, 1x PDU
Maybe that works. |
Tairos Hakonnus
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Posted - 2005.05.05 23:09:00 -
[52]
Nos phoon ftw.
And like people have said, it's not a gank ship, it's a tank.
----------------------------
http://spla.sh/bp/bp_files/main.htm |
Moridan
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Posted - 2005.05.05 23:11:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Drofier Ilmatti
Typhoon doesn't have grid to fit a full rack of 1400's, and the range bonus just makes up for lack of damage bonus. This is because the Typhoon is a short range ship. The range bonus helps autocannons quite a bit, and there is no fitting issue with them like there is with 1400s. And you have high base speed to play with short range.
6x 800mm, 2x Siege
2x Sensor Booster, 1x 20k Disruptor, 1x either Large t2 Shield booster or tracking computer
5x Gyro II, 1x RCU, 1x PDU
Maybe that works.
sensor boosters for what? thats a tempest setup right?
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Harpia
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Posted - 2005.05.06 02:03:00 -
[54]
Typhoon will be the most skill intensive Battleship in EVE. 
 tech II guns;
missiles & launchers overhaul;
drones;
new missiles skills.
Well!
What can do a specialist in the most versatile ship in game? 
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.05.06 04:11:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Drofier Ilmatti
Typhoon doesn't have grid to fit a full rack of 1400's, and the range bonus just makes up for lack of damage bonus. This is because the Typhoon is a short range ship. The range bonus helps autocannons quite a bit, and there is no fitting issue with them like there is with 1400s. And you have high base speed to play with short range.
6x 800mm, 2x Siege
2x Sensor Booster, 1x 20k Disruptor, 1x either Large t2 Shield booster or tracking computer
5x Gyro II, 1x RCU, 1x PDU
Maybe that works.
Um.... phoon doesnt have 6 guns. And a tempest doesnt have 7 lows. So I don't know how you just came up with this setup.
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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2005.05.06 04:57:00 -
[56]
The phoon will be insane post missle over haul so get one,practice with it up close then cross ur fingers and wait for the missle over haul
Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass. |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.05.06 05:27:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard
The phoon will be insane post missle over haul so get one,practice with it up close then cross ur fingers and wait for the missle over haul
Um how do you figure that? It will be completely worthless at its main duty, anti support nos + torps/cruise. And anything besides that can be done better by a tempest.
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xaioguai
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Posted - 2005.05.06 06:03:00 -
[58]
Edited by: xaioguai on 06/05/2005 06:10:43
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Lucian Alucard
The phoon will be insane post missle over haul so get one,practice with it up close then cross ur fingers and wait for the missle over haul
Um how do you figure that? It will be completely worthless at its main duty, anti support nos + torps/cruise. And anything besides that can be done better by a tempest.
smallest signature radius + speed > pest
afer missile overhaul, it will own raven with 4NOS+4 autocannons
but then again.....slowly
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.05.06 09:55:00 -
[59]
So back onto hardener stuff....
exp+kin+thermal is fine to stand sustained dmg for not long periods of time.....
-=-
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Drofier Ilmatti
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Posted - 2005.05.06 10:08:00 -
[60]
Hmmmm.....
For a second I had my self convinced that that was a good 'phoon setup. But now I'm back thinking nos phoon IS the only way to go.
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