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Deros
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Deros on 05/05/2005 15:50:27
lasers are not meant to out damage 1400 at range, or blasters close, the game in regards to guns seems fairly balanced at the moment.
//edit
lets hope they make a good job of the missile re-working.
D
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ElDiablo
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Posted - 2005.05.05 16:05:00 -
[32]
Also, I like how people say....OooO missles nerf is coming see how you like that!
How about thank god missle nerf is coming, b/c other then some more skills to learn for us Caldari....it looks great imo.
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.05.05 16:48:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Alowishus
Like projectiles are now?
Only the 1400mm and 280mm are fine atm. ACs suck 'cause they have the worst DOT of all closerange guns. It needs a very skilled pilot (ingame and rl) to kill a Blasterthron or a Gankageddon in a 800mm Tempest.
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.05.05 16:50:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Shirei
The only thing lasers could use without becoming overpowered again is a slight reduction in the PG need of Frig and Cruiser beams. But they're not really that gimped, so I don't think it would justify any major change.
Agreed. Reduce grid requirements of small beams a bit and reduce apoc grid a bit to compensate for the fact that this change in small beams will filter through to large beams as well seeing Hammer's insistence on keeping the small to large connection in place (like done in the pulse nerf).
Pulses are perfectly fine now, beams are perfectly fine in terms of long range damage.
IO'd agree to that in a heartbeat. Also a slight cpu reduction for the beams.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: ammargal
as you all know... ccp has NERFED lasers like friggin hell, now ships like zealots, that were initially designed for the hard hitting heavy pulse lasers are worthless now ... this is a petition to let CCP know that we're not happy with the changes ! please revise the changes to the lasers...
everyone who agrees plz write something in below 
-1 signing
Zealot does not suck, and most certainly is not worthless. Pulses do not suck, they work AS THEY SHOULD HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Lasers are not friggin worthless. I am sick of people whining about lasers/zealot. Maybe you should learn to use new setups, eh?
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:34:00 -
[36]
What i will agree to is a slight increase in small pulse range as well as decrease in small beam PG req.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Tisiph0ne
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:34:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Tisiph0ne on 05/05/2005 17:37:27
I don't mind if rails or all projectile weapons have longer optimals than pulses or beams.
Frigs and sometimes cruisers should more easily be able to get under L turrets. This should be harder against pulses and blasters, but still more possible than it is now.
Also, most ships shoot too far for the environment they occupy. Most pvp mmorpgs don't let you shoot at anything on the very periphery of the zone you are in for this reason. All turrets need an optimal range reduction or the game environment needs to expand.
Gun range and accuracy, and missile classes too, need to become more precise in their usage and more limited in application. Also, frigates need a major speed boost.
If you limited the longest range turrets, beams and rails and such, to 40-50km, (the diameter of gate decloaking sphere) then we could afford to have warp disruptors with 100km range. With faster frig and cruiser speeds, we could get rid of the 15km warp in for gates and set it much farther back. That would make things more interesting if you ask me. BS shouldn't be able to insta from one end of a region to another at the drop of a hat obviously since they pwn all other classes.
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(<0.) (|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|)
(> <) ("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("(") |
Oberon Oblique
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:48:00 -
[38]
Pulse fix was fine.
Only fix i suggest is:
+10% grid for amarr frigs/af/intys
+5% grid for amarr destroyers/crusiers/HAC
leave BS and BC's alone.
the pulse fix forced me to adapt, and find the most fun ive had in eve with my new geddon setup.
-The mind is strong and the flesh is weak, but oh the flesh... |
El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:49:00 -
[39]
/NOT SIGNED.
Lasers are fine. /PERHAPS/ a VERY SMALL increase in grid on amarr t2 frigs, for beams.
---:::---
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Sangxianc
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:52:00 -
[40]
Half signed. Small/medium pulses didn't deserve such a slapz0ring, and small beams use a LOT too much powergrid. If the small pulses were raised back to pre-patch ranges and the mediums were put between pre-patch and post-patch ranges, I think it would be ok.
-
Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
Alberta
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
err...no, use beams if you want long range...
Taking the example of the An Apocalypse with tachyons, it can still out-damage a Tempest with 1400mm at equal skills, and that isnÆt even the Amarr damage-dealing battleship...
Sorry, but that's a meaningless comparison unless you state what the skill levels are. The difference between both pilots having BS lvl2 and having BS lvl5 is huge.
With regard to the small beam power issues; afaik while some stats are scaled up through the sizes, fitting requirements are not. These are individual for each turret.
Oh and NOT SIGNED!
My Thoughts on Game Balance |
Ankanos
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:49:00 -
[42]
if anything make pulse laser give a speed boost to amarr ships..
they so friggin slow. getting into range seems to be an issue for me..
-least on a prophecy.. otherwise, i find them they doing quite well...
-ank
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.05.05 21:38:00 -
[43]
For once can't people just deal 
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Tisiph0ne
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Posted - 2005.05.05 22:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
For once can't people just deal
Disagreement is the point at which thought begins.
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(<0.) (|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|)
(> <) ("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("(") |
Ankanos
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Posted - 2005.05.05 23:13:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ankanos on 05/05/2005 23:24:41
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Ankanos
if anything make pulse laser give a speed boost to amarr ships..
wtf
after reading that a few hrs later it does seem rather silly..
it's just i've been tooling around in a cyclone and stabber the past week
or so and havent been in a prophecy since the pulse changes..
needless to say, it felt like it was taking eons to chase down my targets
in the prophecy with a t2 10mn ab to get into gamma pulse range..
thats what spawned that thought..
sidenote: i thought the crystal changes were gonna bite big time.
but i seem to chew thru shields quicker which kinda makes up for
the longer time it takes to get thru the armour..
how bout making heavy beams 240 grid instead of 250...?
ok i'm done
-ank
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Spiff Jones
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Posted - 2005.05.06 02:43:00 -
[46]
the changes made on the pulse laser were absolutely perfect for teh battleships, as the geddon was a bit uber. Though i found that the way the pulses worked on the amarr frigs were in no way overpowered. however the pulses on frigs are not uber underpowered, and atm we can deal. however the fact that you cannot fit t2 beams on your t2 frigs is just plain stupid, and in my opinion makes the amarr frigs by far teh most underpowered atm. BSs are perfect, cruisers could use small tweaks, and the frigs need serious help... so half signed as well
-spiff
new sig coming soon...
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.05.06 03:44:00 -
[47]
I dont know if anyone realised the lack of a small beam laser between dual light and medium beam laser, something like 125mm rails. I realised this when trying to fit my malediction, with dual lights I had lots of unused PG, but medium beams would also not fit. I'm talking about T2 here btw.
Pulse lasers were quite the advantage on amarr ships now with that gone some ships are pretty underpowered, actually imo anything below BS is useless atm. The only overpowered thing about lasers was the Mega pulse laser, I have never read anyone complaining about the range of medium or small sized lasers nor have I ever read any complaints about the uberness of frequency crystal dmg. IMO projectile ammo is uber 3 types of dmg WTF? Amarr do only 1.5 now go nerf minmatar
Intercepting since BETA |
PsyBoRG
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Posted - 2005.05.06 03:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kunming
I dont know if anyone realised the lack of a small beam laser between dual light and medium beam laser, something like 125mm rails. I realised this when trying to fit my malediction, with dual lights I had lots of unused PG, but medium beams would also not fit. I'm talking about T2 here btw.
Pulse lasers were quite the advantage on amarr ships now with that gone some ships are pretty underpowered, actually imo anything below BS is useless atm. The only overpowered thing about lasers was the Mega pulse laser, I have never read anyone complaining about the range of medium or small sized lasers nor have I ever read any complaints about the uberness of frequency crystal dmg. IMO projectile ammo is uber 3 types of dmg WTF? Amarr do only 1.5 now go nerf minmatar
why cant u fit them coz ur trying to tank which my wolf cant do either with 280's t2 but need 250's t2 coz i run out of pg so i fit some t2 damage mods and t2 tracking enhancers or coz its psychically impossible with lvl 5 engineering and some low power usage in ur lows?
http://www.snigg.cjb.net/ |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.05.06 07:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: benwallace
Originally by: Nafri
pulse laser have still increadible range
and I had a zealot hitting me from 55km for about 150 damage, should be ok, shouldnt it?
you were probably getting hit with a beam as heavy pulse II range is like 35km max
Whatever it is, the DoT on Pulses and Beams are GREAT! No Reload + Awsome Rate of Fire!!!!!
I do however second the beam reduction of PG ect. That's not balanced compared to other races.
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Calleb
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Posted - 2005.05.06 08:37:00 -
[50]
As far as large turrets go - theres so much PG on an apoc and geddon that you can get a real good setup using beams instead of pulses instead.
I have to admit that since the patch i have not used a cruiser so i can't fairly comment on med lasers.
Small lasers however are now way out of line with other ship types. It is now not possible for instance to fit 3 med beams on a vengence without filling the low slots with RCU's, and i have very high fitting skills. Retribution is similar. You need to fill up on RCU to fit the 4 turret slots with med beams. This is just not a valid option for ships, which because of their slow speed, need to have the ability to hit at more than 10km range.
I have not yet looked int refitting my Interceptors, but i expect similar fitting problems. However, because of the higer speed of the ship and the ability to get in close quick, fitting pulses here is actually a good option.
I think in general the pulse changes have been a good move, but I also belive that a bit of closer inspection on the use of small turrets on Amarr ships MUST be done. I completely agree with some of the previous sentiments that small turret powergrid usage is just too high now. When pulses could be be used just as effectively it wasn't a problem, but now it really has left amarr frigs at a disadvantage.
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.05.06 10:33:00 -
[51]
medium beams do use alot of pg should be 3-4 less. but if heavy beams get less pg 720mm\1400mm should also use less pg. u need 2x t2 rcu on a muninn to have 5x720mm II on it  also if crusader would get more pg claw should also get more and a extra turret slot or something like that. if you have 280mm II on a claw you need a micro aux and then you cant even use the missile slot.
Fluffy carebear
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Wizard
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Posted - 2005.05.06 11:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hellek
just increase grid on amarr frigs and cruisers, like it was done on the BS. they are enough challenged by their extremely low CPU anyway.
Exactly right.
All the lasers are fine in my opinion, just the fitting req. for beams especially on cruisers and frigs are hard.
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Zaneg
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Posted - 2005.05.06 11:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tisiph0ne
If you limited the longest range turrets, beams and rails and such, to 40-50km, (the diameter of gate decloaking sphere) then we could afford to have warp disruptors with 100km range. With faster frig and cruiser speeds, we could get rid of the 15km warp in for gates and set it much farther back. That would make things more interesting if you ask me. BS shouldn't be able to insta from one end of a region to another at the drop of a hat obviously since they pwn all other classes.
This is what we need, thinking outside the box i mean. Excellent observation. More of this on forums.
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Thyro
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Posted - 2005.05.06 11:39:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Death Merchant
P-U-L-S-E-S WERE O-V-E-R-P-O-W-E-R-E-D.
tweak small beams grid requirements.(a smidgen).. Thats it.
NOT SIGNED\
U S-E-E-M A B-I-T N-E-R-D
I now doing on averange 1,450 to 1,600 damage in my apoc with Minmatar weapons so I simply stuck up all Large lasers up CCP A-R-S-S!
Go! Go! Go! with more nerfs on lasers and leave all other weapons CCP!
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.05.06 12:12:00 -
[55]
Thyro, do you have anything even resembling a clue at all ?
Have you ever bothered thinking of any reason other then pure spite because balance to your favourite weapons was restored to post crap like fitting 1400's to an apoc ?
Have you ever calculated the damage of fitting megabeams versus that of fitting 1400's on your apoc ?
I guess you haven't have you ?
You are nothing but a whiner.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Kunming
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Posted - 2005.05.06 12:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: PsyBoRG
why cant u fit them coz ur trying to tank which my wolf cant do either with 280's t2 but need 250's t2 coz i run out of pg so i fit some t2 damage mods and t2 tracking enhancers or coz its psychically impossible with lvl 5 engineering and some low power usage in ur lows?
No, the dual light beams fit when I tank but the ship has 43.75 PG, T1 medium beams take 16 PG each, lets say I try to fit 2 of those (32 PG) and a T1 MWD (15 PG)... simply not enough PG to fit anything else than dual light beams if I dont use a MAPC or PDUs.
Now lets look at the taranis, it has the same PG like the malediction (+ 25 more CPU). It has not the same problem like the malediction, it can fit 3x 125mm rails which take only 7 PG (T2 takes 8) and also fit an MWD without problems, still enough PG left to fit lots of other stuff.
TBH my first point is not really on topic but I wanted to state the lack of a small beam laser between "dual light beam" and "medium beam", both dmg and PG wise.
Back on topic, I still use the mega pulse like I was using it before, short range ganking laser. Though the range nerf that hit all sizes of pulse lasers made medium and small sized versions pretty useless in pvp combat. Amarr pilots are more or less forced to use beams and its a fact now that the fitting requirements and cap usage are too high.
Another point is the thermal dmg nerf on the laser ammo, someone pls explain me the logic behind this, cause EM dmg is crap for anything but station bombardment atm!?
Intercepting since BETA |
God forbid
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Posted - 2005.05.06 14:12:00 -
[57]
Ok I hate this nerf and before the change I was just training for amarr but now Im thinking of training for someother race.. But Please ccp do something about lasers like put more dmg to beams or something becuse it sucks like it is now.. : O Bleh..
BLEH!! |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.06 18:10:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/05/2005 18:13:13
Originally by: Thyro
I now doing on averange 1,450 to 1,600 damage in my apoc with Minmatar weapons so I simply stuck up all Large lasers up CCP A-R-S-S!
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Have you ever calculated the damage of fitting megabeams versus that of fitting 1400's on your apoc ?
(w/o skills)
1400mm = (5.75/23.625)x(44)x(8)= 85.67 dmg/sec
mega beam = (3/9)x(48)x(8)= 128
using 1400mm on apoc = silly rabbit.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.06 18:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kunming
and its a fact now that the fitting requirements and cap usage are too high.
at lvl 5 pulses use less than neutrons, so I would say cap usage is fine. 7x MP on an arma will admittedly leave it with slightly less grid than 7x neutrons on a Thron, so I could possibly see warrenting a 100-200 pg reduction on mega pulse, and equal percentages down the line...
As for small beams, they need a PG reduction or amarr frigs need pg increase.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.06 19:40:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Kunming
and its a fact now that the fitting requirements and cap usage are too high.
at lvl 5 pulses use less than neutrons, so I would say cap usage is fine. 7x MP on an arma will admittedly leave it with slightly less grid than 7x neutrons on a Thron, so I could possibly see warrenting a 100-200 pg reduction on mega pulse, and equal percentages down the line...
As for small beams, they need a PG reduction or amarr frigs need pg increase.
Mega Pulse fit fine, no reduction is required.
Heavy Pulse fits fine on our HAC's but not so well on the Maller which is a soul turret ship.
Medium Pulse are pretty much obsolete, you can't fit tech 2 in a way that would be more beneficial then Dual Light Pulse II's (you have to throw away a lot of lowslots to use em). A Taranis can fit 3x Neutrons with 1 MAPC.
A Taranis has 5 less pg then a Crusader but it has 1 less turret to fill of course. If that wasn't enough, it has 50% more CPU. Yes thats right, 5 less grid but 50% more cpu. Balance right?
A Retribution with Medium Pulse II would give you a maxium range of like 14km with radio which in turn does **** all damage. It only has 1 mid and isn't to fast so going closerange with it is like putting blasters on an enyo. Worse actually since an enyo can at least put on a web/scrambler...
Medium Beams are just retarded, nothing more needs to be said about them. The turret race of eve can't fit a full rack of it's longest range frig guns on it's AF without grid upgrades but the rest can.
Good ******* job
So yeah, Mega Pulse fitting doesn't need to be reduced, Heavy Pulse is fine (the maller needs more pg), Medium Pulse/Beam both need fitting reductions.
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