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ammargal
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Posted - 2005.05.05 09:03:00 -
[1]
as you all know... ccp has NERFED lasers like friggin hell, now ships like zealots, that were initially designed for the hard hitting heavy pulse lasers are worthless now ... this is a petition to let CCP know that we're not happy with the changes ! please revise the changes to the lasers...
everyone who agrees plz write something in below 
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.05 09:18:00 -
[2]
I think lasers are ok its just the beams use too much grid and need a little loving.
Death to the Galante |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.05.05 09:19:00 -
[3]
No, there just not super uber anymore.
They are, what we like to call in the trade... balanced. They were overpowered, they got balanced so they are now not.
Now, take those toys, and put them back in the prams.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.05.05 09:34:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Twin blade
wow this is all i can see what i read crap like this
OMG my short range weapon is no longer mega overpowerd i can no longer hit form 1km to 45km with my weapons thats so unfair that i can not own every one.
You morons need to open your eyes you can not see how overpowerd they was so you come and cry.
it's not the short range weapons that's bugging me... it's the insane reduction in long range damage that came with the EM nerf.... which was totally not needed since the pulses already got a range reduction
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.05.05 09:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/05/2005 09:41:48
I happen to think that it was a mistake to nerf the crystals, which affect beams as well as pulses.
Pulses were a little uber, but beams were not.
Beams should have a slight powergrid reduction (or maybe an increase to their damage mod) to compensate, as they're sometimes hard to fit on frigates and cruisers.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Twin blade
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Posted - 2005.05.05 09:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Na'Axin
Originally by: Twin blade
wow this is all i can see what i read crap like this
OMG my short range weapon is no longer mega overpowerd i can no longer hit form 1km to 45km with my weapons thats so unfair that i can not own every one.
You morons need to open your eyes you can not see how overpowerd they was so you come and cry.
it's not the short range weapons that's bugging me... it's the insane reduction in long range damage that came with the EM nerf.... which was totally not needed since the pulses already got a range reduction
That post was for them crying about the range not the long range EM damage they want to put a short range weapon back to like 4 time's the range of auto cannons and blaster's.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.05.05 10:17:00 -
[7]
pulse laser have still increadible range
and I had a zealot hitting me from 55km for about 150 damage, should be ok, shouldnt it?
Wanna fly with me?
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.05.05 10:30:00 -
[8]
and they are still medium range. They have greater range than blasters and auto cannons, they just dont kick the ass out of anything and near long range weapons
/NOT SIGNED
Lasers are now well balanced versus the other turrets. It was an extremely well done and well handed balance
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Shirei
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Posted - 2005.05.05 10:37:00 -
[9]
The only thing lasers could use without becoming overpowered again is a slight reduction in the PG need of Frig and Cruiser beams. But they're not really that gimped, so I don't think it would justify any major change.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.05.05 10:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shirei
The only thing lasers could use without becoming overpowered again is a slight reduction in the PG need of Frig and Cruiser beams. But they're not really that gimped, so I don't think it would justify any major change.
Agreed. Reduce grid requirements of small beams a bit and reduce apoc grid a bit to compensate for the fact that this change in small beams will filter through to large beams as well seeing Hammer's insistence on keeping the small to large connection in place (like done in the pulse nerf).
Pulses are perfectly fine now, beams are perfectly fine in terms of long range damage.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
benwallace
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Posted - 2005.05.05 11:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nafri
pulse laser have still increadible range
and I had a zealot hitting me from 55km for about 150 damage, should be ok, shouldnt it?
you were probably getting hit with a beam as heavy pulse II range is like 35km max
--------------------------
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.05.05 11:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: benwallace
Originally by: Nafri
pulse laser have still increadible range
and I had a zealot hitting me from 55km for about 150 damage, should be ok, shouldnt it?
you were probably getting hit with a beam as heavy pulse II range is like 35km max
I know, but why are people whining? the damage seems ok to me, and he was able to fit beams on his ship
sad enough that zealots didnt had to fit an mwd to operate
Wanna fly with me?
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Arkanis
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Posted - 2005.05.05 11:17:00 -
[13]
Zealot with beams isn't actually that bad.
Although I do wish that frigate beams got their grid tweaked.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.05.05 11:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Arkanis
Zealot with beams isn't actually that bad.
Although I do wish that frigate beams got their grid tweaked.
frigate beams could need a little tweak, but medium and large beams are pretty fine
Wanna fly with me?
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.05.05 12:01:00 -
[15]
/signed
My medium blasters only fire out to about 2k, and barely do more damage than pulse lasers that can fire out to 35k
Oh..hangon, this is about improving med/small LASERS...
In that case /notsigned for the reason i said above
I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2005.05.05 12:02:00 -
[16]
No problem on my propehcy setups. Adapt.
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Join eve-webring.com to promote your site. |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.05.05 12:10:00 -
[17]
err...no, use beams if you want long range...
Taking the example of the An Apocalypse with tachyons, it can still out-damage a Tempest with 1400mm at equal skills, and that isnÆt even the Amarr damage-dealing battleship...
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Hellek
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Posted - 2005.05.05 12:43:00 -
[18]
just increase grid on amarr frigs and cruisers, like it was done on the BS. they are enough challenged by their extremely low CPU anyway.
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.05.05 12:44:00 -
[19]
Errrrrrrr  if your going to reduce the fitting requirements for beams then me and several thousand rail users want power grid reductions in rails aswell!!
You cant fit a full rack of 250mm rails on any caldari cruiser or the ferox without a reactor control (two if you want 4x 250mm and 2x heavy launchers on a Moa).
Whats that?? that wouldnt be right/fair?? fitting the biggest guns without low slot support modules ............
Nope.. leave beams exactly as they are ty very much or buff everything else if you buff beams.
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Arkanis
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Posted - 2005.05.05 12:52:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Arkanis on 05/05/2005 12:54:27
The retribution can't fit 4x medium beam laser II's and struggles to fit 4x dual light beam laser II's.
While I think the pulse balance, hurt the wrong ships and left the reason for it (armageddon) alone. I do believe it was justified.
However, those people crying that we have to use beams for range and then cry more because we apparently can't fit our ships.
Amarr ships generally don't have the luxury of fitting a micro aux core. Expecially as beams use more cpu and more powergrid than pulse do.
I'm not asking for an 'I win' button. I just want to be able to fit 3x medium beam II's to a retribution and fourth with an enhancement module.
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Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2005.05.05 13:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Arkanis
Only if you'll do everyone a favour and drown in it.
I just want people to actually make proper contributions.
Malediction, Crusader, Vengeance and Retribution.
All of these ships and their tech one counterparts can't fit beam lasers without being little more than a flying coffin.
I can fly harpies and hawks. They can fit blasters, rails and missiles along with a tank. Why does Amarrian ships only have the option of pulse?
Agreed. Large and Med beams seem for the most part ok. Small beams need a good tweak, cant really use them on my Inties. Though a Coercer can handle them (dual lights)
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
Death Merchant
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Posted - 2005.05.05 14:11:00 -
[22]
P-U-L-S-E-S WERE O-V-E-R-P-O-W-E-R-E-D.
tweak small beams grid requirements.(a smidgen).. Thats it.
NOT SIGNED\
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.05.05 14:52:00 -
[23]
I don't care. Not signed.
Get back to reality. Same damage as Blasters, no need for MWD (+1 med slot and a lot of fitting), as well as awesome to overpowering tanking ability on the ships they are used on. Yeah. Underpowered...
Try to fly a blaster ship and get back to me (hint the most effective blaster ship uses the "strip fitting" button and fits railguns)
Originally by: Bad'Boy
ops
Septuple post, how'd one manage that?
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:11:00 -
[24]
Signed.
The crusader been way outta whack since the AB nerf.
After the AB nerf you couldn't fit 4 T2 pulses in a combat ready ship ..... with a T2 AB T2 armor ripper and a named Micro Aux and how many slots that leave on that thing.
To use T2 modules down low meant only T1 guns when it comes to pulses. and the AB nerf makes that veryy difficult on the Crusader.
dual beams only way to go and they suck.
great to have a pricey T2 frigate that can't rightfully fit T2 guns in a valid battle readyset up. now it's pwnbait.
and the best part is all the pulse whine was from the megapulse and CCP said the large guns are off shoots of the small guns characteristics so they all have to be adjusted.
The problem is they did two nerfs not one to lasers.
They nerfed the pulse range ..... fine.
but they also nerf the ammo capabilities. not fine
the combination of both nerfs at same time overdoes the pulse nerf for sure.
and as far as small beams compared to big beams, well if the big lasers are offshoots of the small lasers characteristics and none of the small ships can fit beams barely at all then the grid issues are way out of whack and the need to be adjusted and damage of beams need to be increased slightly
When my T2 beams with t2 heat sink does 400 to 450 damage in wreckers with multi's and medium projectile 2's(i think 720's) do upwards 600 to 700 damage wreckers not using their most damaging ammo ...... I would say they need a grid adjustment and a damage increase to beams to bring them inline with medium projectiles.
same note medium rails could use a slight damage increase too
And to think that pilot has 8 mill gunnery in only lasers too. the projectile pilot had to be comparable skills and I know it wasn't a gank setup.
When will CCP one nerf at a time. double nerfs have bad double affects and always go past your intended slight nerf.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
No, there just not super uber anymore.
Like projectiles are now? CCP always does this, and it sucks. They use a jackhammer where they should use a scalpel. They've learned abselutely nothing from past mistakes.
I assure you, projectiles are far from uber. Have you ever used them? I personally, still think our ships need a decent change in some direction.
Look man, you had mega pulses, which were overpowered, for ages and ages. I mean, cmon, take a step back and look at it.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Akuma Ichiro
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kiyoshi Aphelion
Signed by me, the nerf was way too hardcore man. No point to flying Amarrian ships now if you don't use Tachs.
My Megapulse still pwn.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Have you ever used them?
Yes, asbelutely. My Minmatar/Projectile skills are equal to that of my Amarr/Laser skills. The new projectiles rock. If you're having trouble with them maybe it's you.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:28:00 -
[28]
Edited by: X''Alor on 05/05/2005 15:29:43
People don't seem to understand that large beams are made on a multiplier from the small beam stats. no matter what they fit like on large ships.
The issues are that small beam 2's can't readily be fit on T2 small ships.
CAN NOT BE FIT.....
unless you devote the entire set up to fitting them.
So no matter what they fit like on big ships. They need to be adjusted to fit on the small ships. Atleast make it so the tech one meta named beams can fit on small ships somewhat in a usable fashion.
If beam fitting on small ships is out of whack then no matter how they fit on larger ships due to the way they are made are out of whack as well.
Still think the pulse nerf AND the ammo nerf at same time was a bit too much. The combination of the two was too much.
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slapp
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:31:00 -
[29]
/not signed
i like my dual light pulse lasers II on my crusader just fine.
and i like my medium pulse laser II on my retribution just
fine. i don't know about zealot and armageddon, but with
zealot's bonus you can get 10 km of optimal with multies on
heavy pulse II lasers and 14 km of optimal with multies on mega
pulse laser II. what i'd like to see tho is just a little
tweaking to small beams. i mean, c'mon, 18 MW to fit medium
beam laser II? and 8 MW to fit dual light beam laser II?
at least tech II ships should be able to fit full rack of tech
II weapons on their high slots. that's why we call them tech
II.
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ElDiablo
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:44:00 -
[30]
This was a well balanced patch and they did the right thing.
Posts like this are such a waste of time, they are not going to go back and change it. Train some other guns if you don't like lasers now, or learn to adjust.
You are very limited in life if you do not learn how to adjust to change.
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Deros
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Posted - 2005.05.05 15:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Deros on 05/05/2005 15:50:27
lasers are not meant to out damage 1400 at range, or blasters close, the game in regards to guns seems fairly balanced at the moment.
//edit
lets hope they make a good job of the missile re-working.
D
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ElDiablo
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Posted - 2005.05.05 16:05:00 -
[32]
Also, I like how people say....OooO missles nerf is coming see how you like that!
How about thank god missle nerf is coming, b/c other then some more skills to learn for us Caldari....it looks great imo.
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.05.05 16:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Alowishus
Like projectiles are now?
Only the 1400mm and 280mm are fine atm. ACs suck 'cause they have the worst DOT of all closerange guns. It needs a very skilled pilot (ingame and rl) to kill a Blasterthron or a Gankageddon in a 800mm Tempest.
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.05.05 16:50:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Shirei
The only thing lasers could use without becoming overpowered again is a slight reduction in the PG need of Frig and Cruiser beams. But they're not really that gimped, so I don't think it would justify any major change.
Agreed. Reduce grid requirements of small beams a bit and reduce apoc grid a bit to compensate for the fact that this change in small beams will filter through to large beams as well seeing Hammer's insistence on keeping the small to large connection in place (like done in the pulse nerf).
Pulses are perfectly fine now, beams are perfectly fine in terms of long range damage.
IO'd agree to that in a heartbeat. Also a slight cpu reduction for the beams.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: ammargal
as you all know... ccp has NERFED lasers like friggin hell, now ships like zealots, that were initially designed for the hard hitting heavy pulse lasers are worthless now ... this is a petition to let CCP know that we're not happy with the changes ! please revise the changes to the lasers...
everyone who agrees plz write something in below
-1 signing
Zealot does not suck, and most certainly is not worthless. Pulses do not suck, they work AS THEY SHOULD HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Lasers are not friggin worthless. I am sick of people whining about lasers/zealot. Maybe you should learn to use new setups, eh?
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:34:00 -
[36]
What i will agree to is a slight increase in small pulse range as well as decrease in small beam PG req.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Tisiph0ne
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:34:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Tisiph0ne on 05/05/2005 17:37:27
I don't mind if rails or all projectile weapons have longer optimals than pulses or beams.
Frigs and sometimes cruisers should more easily be able to get under L turrets. This should be harder against pulses and blasters, but still more possible than it is now.
Also, most ships shoot too far for the environment they occupy. Most pvp mmorpgs don't let you shoot at anything on the very periphery of the zone you are in for this reason. All turrets need an optimal range reduction or the game environment needs to expand.
Gun range and accuracy, and missile classes too, need to become more precise in their usage and more limited in application. Also, frigates need a major speed boost.
If you limited the longest range turrets, beams and rails and such, to 40-50km, (the diameter of gate decloaking sphere) then we could afford to have warp disruptors with 100km range. With faster frig and cruiser speeds, we could get rid of the 15km warp in for gates and set it much farther back. That would make things more interesting if you ask me. BS shouldn't be able to insta from one end of a region to another at the drop of a hat obviously since they pwn all other classes.
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(<0.) (|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|)
(> <) ("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("(") |
Oberon Oblique
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:48:00 -
[38]
Pulse fix was fine.
Only fix i suggest is:
+10% grid for amarr frigs/af/intys
+5% grid for amarr destroyers/crusiers/HAC
leave BS and BC's alone.
the pulse fix forced me to adapt, and find the most fun ive had in eve with my new geddon setup.
-The mind is strong and the flesh is weak, but oh the flesh... |
El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:49:00 -
[39]
/NOT SIGNED.
Lasers are fine. /PERHAPS/ a VERY SMALL increase in grid on amarr t2 frigs, for beams.
---:::---
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Sangxianc
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Posted - 2005.05.05 17:52:00 -
[40]
Half signed. Small/medium pulses didn't deserve such a slapz0ring, and small beams use a LOT too much powergrid. If the small pulses were raised back to pre-patch ranges and the mediums were put between pre-patch and post-patch ranges, I think it would be ok.
-
Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
Alberta
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Posted - 2005.05.05 18:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
err...no, use beams if you want long range...
Taking the example of the An Apocalypse with tachyons, it can still out-damage a Tempest with 1400mm at equal skills, and that isnÆt even the Amarr damage-dealing battleship...
Sorry, but that's a meaningless comparison unless you state what the skill levels are. The difference between both pilots having BS lvl2 and having BS lvl5 is huge.
With regard to the small beam power issues; afaik while some stats are scaled up through the sizes, fitting requirements are not. These are individual for each turret.
Oh and NOT SIGNED!
My Thoughts on Game Balance |
Ankanos
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Posted - 2005.05.05 19:49:00 -
[42]
if anything make pulse laser give a speed boost to amarr ships..
they so friggin slow. getting into range seems to be an issue for me..
-least on a prophecy.. otherwise, i find them they doing quite well...
-ank
--- |
Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.05.05 21:38:00 -
[43]
For once can't people just deal 
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Tisiph0ne
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Posted - 2005.05.05 22:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
For once can't people just deal
Disagreement is the point at which thought begins.
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(<0.) (|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|(|)
(> <) ("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("("(") |
Ankanos
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Posted - 2005.05.05 23:13:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ankanos on 05/05/2005 23:24:41
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Ankanos
if anything make pulse laser give a speed boost to amarr ships..
wtf
after reading that a few hrs later it does seem rather silly..
it's just i've been tooling around in a cyclone and stabber the past week
or so and havent been in a prophecy since the pulse changes..
needless to say, it felt like it was taking eons to chase down my targets
in the prophecy with a t2 10mn ab to get into gamma pulse range..
thats what spawned that thought..
sidenote: i thought the crystal changes were gonna bite big time.
but i seem to chew thru shields quicker which kinda makes up for
the longer time it takes to get thru the armour..
how bout making heavy beams 240 grid instead of 250...?
ok i'm done
-ank
--- |
Spiff Jones
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Posted - 2005.05.06 02:43:00 -
[46]
the changes made on the pulse laser were absolutely perfect for teh battleships, as the geddon was a bit uber. Though i found that the way the pulses worked on the amarr frigs were in no way overpowered. however the pulses on frigs are not uber underpowered, and atm we can deal. however the fact that you cannot fit t2 beams on your t2 frigs is just plain stupid, and in my opinion makes the amarr frigs by far teh most underpowered atm. BSs are perfect, cruisers could use small tweaks, and the frigs need serious help... so half signed as well
-spiff
new sig coming soon...
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.05.06 03:44:00 -
[47]
I dont know if anyone realised the lack of a small beam laser between dual light and medium beam laser, something like 125mm rails. I realised this when trying to fit my malediction, with dual lights I had lots of unused PG, but medium beams would also not fit. I'm talking about T2 here btw.
Pulse lasers were quite the advantage on amarr ships now with that gone some ships are pretty underpowered, actually imo anything below BS is useless atm. The only overpowered thing about lasers was the Mega pulse laser, I have never read anyone complaining about the range of medium or small sized lasers nor have I ever read any complaints about the uberness of frequency crystal dmg. IMO projectile ammo is uber 3 types of dmg WTF? Amarr do only 1.5 now go nerf minmatar
Intercepting since BETA |
PsyBoRG
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Posted - 2005.05.06 03:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kunming
I dont know if anyone realised the lack of a small beam laser between dual light and medium beam laser, something like 125mm rails. I realised this when trying to fit my malediction, with dual lights I had lots of unused PG, but medium beams would also not fit. I'm talking about T2 here btw.
Pulse lasers were quite the advantage on amarr ships now with that gone some ships are pretty underpowered, actually imo anything below BS is useless atm. The only overpowered thing about lasers was the Mega pulse laser, I have never read anyone complaining about the range of medium or small sized lasers nor have I ever read any complaints about the uberness of frequency crystal dmg. IMO projectile ammo is uber 3 types of dmg WTF? Amarr do only 1.5 now go nerf minmatar
why cant u fit them coz ur trying to tank which my wolf cant do either with 280's t2 but need 250's t2 coz i run out of pg so i fit some t2 damage mods and t2 tracking enhancers or coz its psychically impossible with lvl 5 engineering and some low power usage in ur lows?
http://www.snigg.cjb.net/ |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.05.06 07:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: benwallace
Originally by: Nafri
pulse laser have still increadible range
and I had a zealot hitting me from 55km for about 150 damage, should be ok, shouldnt it?
you were probably getting hit with a beam as heavy pulse II range is like 35km max
Whatever it is, the DoT on Pulses and Beams are GREAT! No Reload + Awsome Rate of Fire!!!!!
I do however second the beam reduction of PG ect. That's not balanced compared to other races.
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Calleb
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Posted - 2005.05.06 08:37:00 -
[50]
As far as large turrets go - theres so much PG on an apoc and geddon that you can get a real good setup using beams instead of pulses instead.
I have to admit that since the patch i have not used a cruiser so i can't fairly comment on med lasers.
Small lasers however are now way out of line with other ship types. It is now not possible for instance to fit 3 med beams on a vengence without filling the low slots with RCU's, and i have very high fitting skills. Retribution is similar. You need to fill up on RCU to fit the 4 turret slots with med beams. This is just not a valid option for ships, which because of their slow speed, need to have the ability to hit at more than 10km range.
I have not yet looked int refitting my Interceptors, but i expect similar fitting problems. However, because of the higer speed of the ship and the ability to get in close quick, fitting pulses here is actually a good option.
I think in general the pulse changes have been a good move, but I also belive that a bit of closer inspection on the use of small turrets on Amarr ships MUST be done. I completely agree with some of the previous sentiments that small turret powergrid usage is just too high now. When pulses could be be used just as effectively it wasn't a problem, but now it really has left amarr frigs at a disadvantage.
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.05.06 10:33:00 -
[51]
medium beams do use alot of pg should be 3-4 less. but if heavy beams get less pg 720mm\1400mm should also use less pg. u need 2x t2 rcu on a muninn to have 5x720mm II on it also if crusader would get more pg claw should also get more and a extra turret slot or something like that. if you have 280mm II on a claw you need a micro aux and then you cant even use the missile slot.
Fluffy carebear
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Wizard
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Posted - 2005.05.06 11:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hellek
just increase grid on amarr frigs and cruisers, like it was done on the BS. they are enough challenged by their extremely low CPU anyway.
Exactly right.
All the lasers are fine in my opinion, just the fitting req. for beams especially on cruisers and frigs are hard.
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Zaneg
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Posted - 2005.05.06 11:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tisiph0ne
If you limited the longest range turrets, beams and rails and such, to 40-50km, (the diameter of gate decloaking sphere) then we could afford to have warp disruptors with 100km range. With faster frig and cruiser speeds, we could get rid of the 15km warp in for gates and set it much farther back. That would make things more interesting if you ask me. BS shouldn't be able to insta from one end of a region to another at the drop of a hat obviously since they pwn all other classes.
This is what we need, thinking outside the box i mean. Excellent observation. More of this on forums.
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Thyro
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Posted - 2005.05.06 11:39:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Death Merchant
P-U-L-S-E-S WERE O-V-E-R-P-O-W-E-R-E-D.
tweak small beams grid requirements.(a smidgen).. Thats it.
NOT SIGNED\
U S-E-E-M A B-I-T N-E-R-D
I now doing on averange 1,450 to 1,600 damage in my apoc with Minmatar weapons so I simply stuck up all Large lasers up CCP A-R-S-S!
Go! Go! Go! with more nerfs on lasers and leave all other weapons CCP!
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.05.06 12:12:00 -
[55]
Thyro, do you have anything even resembling a clue at all ?
Have you ever bothered thinking of any reason other then pure spite because balance to your favourite weapons was restored to post crap like fitting 1400's to an apoc ?
Have you ever calculated the damage of fitting megabeams versus that of fitting 1400's on your apoc ?
I guess you haven't have you ?
You are nothing but a whiner.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Kunming
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Posted - 2005.05.06 12:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: PsyBoRG
why cant u fit them coz ur trying to tank which my wolf cant do either with 280's t2 but need 250's t2 coz i run out of pg so i fit some t2 damage mods and t2 tracking enhancers or coz its psychically impossible with lvl 5 engineering and some low power usage in ur lows?
No, the dual light beams fit when I tank but the ship has 43.75 PG, T1 medium beams take 16 PG each, lets say I try to fit 2 of those (32 PG) and a T1 MWD (15 PG)... simply not enough PG to fit anything else than dual light beams if I dont use a MAPC or PDUs.
Now lets look at the taranis, it has the same PG like the malediction (+ 25 more CPU). It has not the same problem like the malediction, it can fit 3x 125mm rails which take only 7 PG (T2 takes 8) and also fit an MWD without problems, still enough PG left to fit lots of other stuff.
TBH my first point is not really on topic but I wanted to state the lack of a small beam laser between "dual light beam" and "medium beam", both dmg and PG wise.
Back on topic, I still use the mega pulse like I was using it before, short range ganking laser. Though the range nerf that hit all sizes of pulse lasers made medium and small sized versions pretty useless in pvp combat. Amarr pilots are more or less forced to use beams and its a fact now that the fitting requirements and cap usage are too high.
Another point is the thermal dmg nerf on the laser ammo, someone pls explain me the logic behind this, cause EM dmg is crap for anything but station bombardment atm!?
Intercepting since BETA |
God forbid
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Posted - 2005.05.06 14:12:00 -
[57]
Ok I hate this nerf and before the change I was just training for amarr but now Im thinking of training for someother race.. But Please ccp do something about lasers like put more dmg to beams or something becuse it sucks like it is now.. : O Bleh..
BLEH!! |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.06 18:10:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/05/2005 18:13:13
Originally by: Thyro
I now doing on averange 1,450 to 1,600 damage in my apoc with Minmatar weapons so I simply stuck up all Large lasers up CCP A-R-S-S!
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Have you ever calculated the damage of fitting megabeams versus that of fitting 1400's on your apoc ?
(w/o skills)
1400mm = (5.75/23.625)x(44)x(8)= 85.67 dmg/sec
mega beam = (3/9)x(48)x(8)= 128
using 1400mm on apoc = silly rabbit.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.05.06 18:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kunming
and its a fact now that the fitting requirements and cap usage are too high.
at lvl 5 pulses use less than neutrons, so I would say cap usage is fine. 7x MP on an arma will admittedly leave it with slightly less grid than 7x neutrons on a Thron, so I could possibly see warrenting a 100-200 pg reduction on mega pulse, and equal percentages down the line...
As for small beams, they need a PG reduction or amarr frigs need pg increase.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.06 19:40:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Kunming
and its a fact now that the fitting requirements and cap usage are too high.
at lvl 5 pulses use less than neutrons, so I would say cap usage is fine. 7x MP on an arma will admittedly leave it with slightly less grid than 7x neutrons on a Thron, so I could possibly see warrenting a 100-200 pg reduction on mega pulse, and equal percentages down the line...
As for small beams, they need a PG reduction or amarr frigs need pg increase.
Mega Pulse fit fine, no reduction is required.
Heavy Pulse fits fine on our HAC's but not so well on the Maller which is a soul turret ship.
Medium Pulse are pretty much obsolete, you can't fit tech 2 in a way that would be more beneficial then Dual Light Pulse II's (you have to throw away a lot of lowslots to use em). A Taranis can fit 3x Neutrons with 1 MAPC.
A Taranis has 5 less pg then a Crusader but it has 1 less turret to fill of course. If that wasn't enough, it has 50% more CPU. Yes thats right, 5 less grid but 50% more cpu. Balance right?
A Retribution with Medium Pulse II would give you a maxium range of like 14km with radio which in turn does **** all damage. It only has 1 mid and isn't to fast so going closerange with it is like putting blasters on an enyo. Worse actually since an enyo can at least put on a web/scrambler...
Medium Beams are just retarded, nothing more needs to be said about them. The turret race of eve can't fit a full rack of it's longest range frig guns on it's AF without grid upgrades but the rest can.
Good ******* job
So yeah, Mega Pulse fitting doesn't need to be reduced, Heavy Pulse is fine (the maller needs more pg), Medium Pulse/Beam both need fitting reductions.
________________________________________________________
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Martin Mckenna
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Posted - 2005.05.08 11:40:00 -
[61]
signed
PLYT
(\_/)
(X.x)
(> <) This is DEAD Bunny. Copy DEAD Bunny into your signature or kill your existing one to end it's stupidness. |
Marius Pyre
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Posted - 2005.05.08 14:07:00 -
[62]
Radio crystals barely did any damage in the first place. Now they are worthless. Pulses needed tweaking I guess. And beams definitely take too much grid.
Radio Nerf - Bad
Pulse Nerf - Okay
Beam Weapons - Need lower grid requirements
So does this count as a 2/3rds signed?
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.05.08 14:14:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Marius Pyre
Radio crystals barely did any damage in the first place. Now they are worthless. Pulses needed tweaking I guess. And beams definitely take too much grid.
Radio Nerf - Bad
Pulse Nerf - Okay
Beam Weapons - Need lower grid requirements
So does this count as a 2/3rds signed?
Rubbish! Radio crystals used to do 1 MORE damage than any other long range ammo. Now they do 1 less and have an extra 12.5% range over Iron and Carbonised Lead, with Microwave filling in for the 'normal' longest range ammo. Seems fine to me - with the addition of proper standard crystals, lasers are easily the most versatile at range changing, so having this abnormal *but now balanced* radio is better than the old destructively overpowered radio.
---:::---
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Fearn
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Posted - 2005.05.08 16:13:00 -
[64]
el yatta stop talking or i will gank you tonight!! 
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.05.08 16:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: El Yatta
Originally by: Marius Pyre
Radio crystals barely did any damage in the first place. Now they are worthless. Pulses needed tweaking I guess. And beams definitely take too much grid.
Radio Nerf - Bad
Pulse Nerf - Okay
Beam Weapons - Need lower grid requirements
So does this count as a 2/3rds signed?
Rubbish! Radio crystals used to do 1 MORE damage than any other long range ammo. Now they do 1 less and have an extra 12.5% range over Iron and Carbonised Lead, with Microwave filling in for the 'normal' longest range ammo. Seems fine to me - with the addition of proper standard crystals, lasers are easily the most versatile at range changing, so having this abnormal *but now balanced* radio is better than the old destructively overpowered radio.
finally
people seem to forget that the microwave is the normal long range ammo
Radio is just an bonus
Wanna fly with me?
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2005.05.08 17:04:00 -
[66]
Bottom line:
BS sized pulses are fine, crusier and frig are NOT; beam pg needs to be 'balanced'; crystals were nerfed for no reason, fix them ASAP.
--
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Ravenge
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Posted - 2005.05.08 17:52:00 -
[67]
Originally by: StinkFinger
Bottom line:
BS sized pulses are fine, crusier and frig are NOT; beam pg needs to be 'balanced'; crystals were nerfed for no reason, fix them ASAP.
Is that what the bottom line is?
I always thought it, was learn to adapt and quit whining about something that was brought in, to balance things out.. after all a tempest can't fit a rack of 1400's with out add some mods to bring it online.
Radio crystals as has been pointed out are a bonus.. but hey lets say the nerf was to balance out the instant swap you have with crystals.
And pulse lasers was over powered.
In short no you can't have the uber gank-a-geddon back, and now you might have to start fitting pg mods to run that full rack of beams.
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Mac Knife
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Posted - 2005.05.08 20:56:00 -
[68]
Right my friend flies a Zealot.
Pre patch he had about 11km range with them on heavy pulse II's
Afer the patch he has about 9km range with Heavy Pulse II's
Why are people complaining? You had one of the most damaging guns for months and now that they are more along the lines of other guns, Pulse being more like blaster and autos but still being longer range then both, more ppl are moaning about them then there were ppl moaning about howies when they got nerfed a few months back. Just adapt, get new setups, everyone has had to do it at some point. I've used Hybrids since i started and still use them, i was using them thro the good and bad times, just had to change my setups every now and then.
So Not Signed.
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Zegna Mirage
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Posted - 2005.05.08 21:55:00 -
[69]
OK.. now.. I'm going to give a few comparisons of weapon&tank fittings of ships:
Mega:
You can fit 7 blasters + fit any tank modules without any need of cpu or pg enhancers.
Apoc:
Ok, now apocalypse should be the ultimate ship to fit everything right? OK.. I can't even fit 6x Tachyon2's on my apoc without anythning else fitted. I need at least one rcu to fit 6 guns. Tank? LoL.. Apoc used to be the best tanking ship in the game.. but only with pulse weapons.. which now totally suck. We have to use mega beams.. Mega beams are not that good from close range.. and to be good from close range you have to have a tank and maybe you can with mega beams but you still need extra place for at least one rcu. Let's asume that's acceptable, what's with the tachyons then? My tachyon2 needs 4125 pg.. That's just unacceptable. Tachyon's should deal great amounts of damage because of the fitting requirements it has. And with all my laser skills maxed out, it still gives less damage than a blaster.
So bottomline: Tachyons: either decrease their fitting requirements considerably or increase their damage considerably.. 4125pg for crappy damage is just not acceptable.
All other laser weapons: DECREASE THE FITTING REQUIREMENTS! NOT ALL AMARR SHIPS ARE LIKE APOCALYPSE'S.
------------------------------------
"..The power you need is hidden deep within your glorious blood, running through your veins.."
-Mustafa Kemal Atat³rk
Ne mutlu T³rk³m diyene!
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.05.08 22:12:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Zegna Mirage
OK.. now.. I'm going to give a few comparisons of weapon&tank fittings of ships:
Mega:
You can fit 7 blasters + fit any tank modules without any need of cpu or pg enhancers.
Apoc:
Ok, now apocalypse should be the ultimate ship to fit everything right? OK.. I can't even fit 6x Tachyon2's on my apoc without anythning else fitted. I need at least one rcu to fit 6 guns. Tank? LoL.. Apoc used to be the best tanking ship in the game.. but only with pulse weapons.. which now totally suck. We have to use mega beams.. Mega beams are not that good from close range.. and to be good from close range you have to have a tank and maybe you can with mega beams but you still need extra place for at least one rcu. Let's asume that's acceptable, what's with the tachyons then? My tachyon2 needs 4125 pg.. That's just unacceptable. Tachyon's should deal great amounts of damage because of the fitting requirements it has. And with all my laser skills maxed out, it still gives less damage than a blaster.
So bottomline: Tachyons: either decrease their fitting requirements considerably or increase their damage considerably.. 4125pg for crappy damage is just not acceptable.
All other laser weapons: DECREASE THE FITTING REQUIREMENTS! NOT ALL AMARR SHIPS ARE LIKE APOCALYPSE'S.
tachyons have no ingame counterpart
thy would be like 600mm rails and 2000mm howitzers
Wanna fly with me?
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laserc
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Posted - 2005.05.08 22:30:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Zegna Mirage
OK.. now.. I'm going to give a few comparisons of weapon&tank fittings of ships:
Mega:
You can fit 7 blasters + fit any tank modules without any need of cpu or pg enhancers.
Apoc:
Ok, now apocalypse should be the ultimate ship to fit everything right? OK.. I can't even fit 6x Tachyon2's on my apoc without anythning else fitted. I need at least one rcu to fit 6 guns. Tank? LoL.. Apoc used to be the best tanking ship in the game.. but only with pulse weapons.. which now totally suck. We have to use mega beams.. Mega beams are not that good from close range.. and to be good from close range you have to have a tank and maybe you can with mega beams but you still need extra place for at least one rcu. Let's asume that's acceptable, what's with the tachyons then? My tachyon2 needs 4125 pg.. That's just unacceptable. Tachyon's should deal great amounts of damage because of the fitting requirements it has. And with all my laser skills maxed out, it still gives less damage than a blaster.
So bottomline: Tachyons: either decrease their fitting requirements considerably or increase their damage considerably.. 4125pg for crappy damage is just not acceptable.
All other laser weapons: DECREASE THE FITTING REQUIREMENTS! NOT ALL AMARR SHIPS ARE LIKE APOCALYPSE'S.
tachyons have no ingame counterpart
thy would be like 600mm rails and 2000mm howitzers
But the damage of a Tachyon is actually very close to the damage of a Megabeam. With the extra powergrid a Tachyon isn't really worth fitting with the extra rcu you will need insted of a heatsink, or extra gun you can fit. So the only reason a Tachyon would be worth fitting is for range, when the megabeam outdamages it by a considerable bit.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.08 22:55:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Meridius on 08/05/2005 22:55:31
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: El Yatta
Rubbish! Radio crystals used to do 1 MORE damage than any other long range ammo. Now they do 1 less and have an extra 12.5% range over Iron and Carbonised Lead, with Microwave filling in for the 'normal' longest range ammo. Seems fine to me - with the addition of proper standard crystals, lasers are easily the most versatile at range changing, so having this abnormal *but now balanced* radio is better than the old destructively overpowered radio.
finally
people seem to forget that the microwave is the normal long range ammo
Radio is just an bonus
Are you guys blind or just dumb, or perhaps both?
Iron: 60% range bonus, does a total of 20 damage but does 2 damage types
Carbonized Lead: 60% range bonus, does a total of 24 damage across 2 damage types
Radio: 60% range bonus, total of 20 damage but only 1 damage type
Where is this 12.5% range you are talking about 
________________________________________________________
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Haleuth
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:51:00 -
[73]
Pulses in my opinion are fine now. However, i think tachyons should have a lower PG. The PG on the tachyon beam II is especially rediculous. I mean you may as well go for mega beams and a HS II as it deals more dmg i found.
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.05.09 16:01:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Haleuth
Pulses in my opinion are fine now. However, i think tachyons should have a lower PG. The PG on the tachyon beam II is especially rediculous. I mean you may as well go for mega beams and a HS II as it deals more dmg i found.
if large beams\medium would get less grid howitzers should also :I or more grid on minmtar ships ^_^
Fluffy carebear
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
stripey bob
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Posted - 2005.05.09 16:40:00 -
[75]
I actually dont mind most of the changesafter all the range of the pulse lasers were too much
but i feel that the damage types are wrong less em and more thermal after all shine a light beam on a computer and the ecm pulse wont hurt it but you will melt a hole in its side if the beam was focussed so decrease ecm and increase thermal
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.05.09 18:39:00 -
[76]
I have to agree with the ppl calling for a pwr grid reduction on beams. -3 or 4 pg would be ideal on a medium beam II.
Currently in order to fit 4 medium beam IIs on my retribution I have to fit 2 M.A.P.C's and that still does not leave much grid to work with for anything else. 1 M.A.P.C would be more fair. I have excellent fitting skills so there is nothing I can do skill wise to improve that.
I dont mind the range nerf on pulses. I can adapt to that. If I want range I have to fit beams and give up tracking speed. If I want Rof and fast tracking I have to fit pulses at the expense of range. No problem there. The problem is fitting requirements for beams are crazy for PG. It makes adapting almost impossible if you want to stick to lasers on Amarr ships.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.05.09 18:45:00 -
[77]
Originally by: xenorx
I have to agree with the ppl calling for a pwr grid reduction on beams. -3 or 4 pg would be ideal on a medium beam II.
Currently in order to fit 4 medium beam IIs on my retribution I have to fit 2 M.A.P.C's and that still does not leave much grid to work with for anything else. 1 M.A.P.C would be more fair. I have excellent fitting skills so there is nothing I can do skill wise to improve that.
I dont mind the range nerf on pulses. I can adapt to that. If I want range I have to fit beams and give up tracking speed. If I want Rof and fast tracking I have to fit pulses at the expense of range. No problem there. The problem is fitting requirements for beams are crazy for PG. It makes adapting almost impossible if you want to stick to lasers on Amarr ships.
this has been said over and over and over
wolf enyo and harpy can fit a full rack of the biggest long range guns and have pg spare. its not a flexible setup, but its doable.
retribution needs 2 mapcs.
its not an issue of balance, it's an issue of medium beams fitting requirements being BROKEN, the same way pulses were BROKEN before.
TomB did say something along the lines of "small beam fitting rquirements will be looked at" but we all know how much that means
-------------
Originally by: Gnauton
It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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Zarks
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Posted - 2005.05.09 21:28:00 -
[78]
Maybe people should try other lasers then heavy pulse II on their zealots, I use the probably least used medium sized laser turret in the game on mine, works wonders.
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Lodhi
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Posted - 2005.05.09 21:49:00 -
[79]
Got a retri, and this is my setup.
High
4*Tech II Small Beams
Med
Named AB
Low
2*micro aux
Tech II small armor rep
True sancha Thermic
Warp stab
Does pretty good dmg, tanks like mad.
But it aint a ship i would take out and fly with when im on my own. I see it more like a support ship tbh.
Cowboy > Mal you stay and daddy CB will buy you a new white and pink dress with lace |
Lord Titanus
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Posted - 2005.05.10 01:33:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Lord Titanus on 10/05/2005 01:34:21
Doh, wrong forum >.<
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