I never asked a question. I simply stated facts...

There are NO counters to titan bridges in lowsec.

Your facts are wrong.
Good day.

YAY DND! Please tell me the counters then :) Bare in mind I am referring to the act of bridging itself, NOT to the bridged fleet.

1. Killing the bridged fleets detters future bridging .

2. If you would think in terms of eve and not arcade spaceship shooter, you'd find easy counters. From metagaming that fleet in to thinking someone is waiting to counterblob them, to puting an alt in that alliance and awoxing the titan or simply disbanding that alliance. Ofc all of them require time, patience and effort, but this is the way of Eve.

Players can adapt to each other, that I am NOT arguing against. I am simply saying that as long as a group has a titan there is no way to stop them from bridging with it.

This isn't true - FW plexes allow you to get away from hotdrop tactics, both inside and outside of the plexes, as they prevent cyno's cannot be lit. It's one of my favourite features of plexes (along with "no warping on grid" and "restricted ship sizes").

Especially inside, the most that a titan capable entity can do is light a cyno in system, then warp fleet to plex, then activate gate and warp again before they land giving you plenty of time to react.

I don't think you should be able to bridge from inside a pos.

Also, someone needs to kick DnD out of Shirshocin so that I can run through to solitude and/or Aridia unmolested.

If you can use it in lowsec then you should be able to build it in lowsec

See what I did there ?

honestly there are a few parts to this.

Firstly, the term "titan hugging" being used in a derogatory sense. How is sitting on a titan and bridging fights any less valid than an FC calling "jump, warp, jump, warp" a few thousand times as a means of getting a fight?

Secondly, due to the risk averseness of 99% of eve, it's almost impossible to get a large fleet engagement without the surprise factor of bridging an enemy to force an engagement. The vast majority of gangs just run when they scout anything that looks liek a challenge within 2 jumps of them.

Thirdly, Don't you think a 100+ billion isk ship and 20+ billion isk toon should afford the owner some kind of benefit?

Let me ask you a rhetorical question ... how would large Battleship + cap engagements ever happen in lowsec without the ability to titan bridge? ... Outside of pre-arranged fights (and where's the fun in that?), they wouldn't.

Basically as other people have said, the way to counter bridges is to either a) scout the enemy titan and work on the ability to actually fight and beat what you know they are gonna drop, or b) fly stuff small / fast enuff that they won't bother dropping on you (trust me, no BS fleet on a titan is gonna drop on nano BC's and below for the simple reason they know they won't catch you).

tl:dr Titans and bridging are fine, just adapt your playstyle to work around them.

Players can adapt to each other, that I am NOT arguing against. I am simply saying that as long as a group has a titan there is no way to stop them from bridging with it. I do not say whether this is right or wrong, nor do I say whether I think it should change. I simply point out that within the confines of lowsec there are no counters and out in nullsec there is one counter.

Goddamn you United States military!.

How is anybody supposed to get main battle tank fights if you can't drop them in via parachute?

Bawwww

A little while back, I made a suggestion on the "Ideas for new modules" thread in Features & Ideas Discussion for a "cyno poisoner" module that you can deploy onto a cynosural field and it causes funky (and universally unpleasant) stuff to happen to anyone who tries to gate through the cyno.

I think this'd work as a counter.

Thankfully we don't drive our MBT's all the way from the US to get fights. We use C-5 Galaxies and the Navy to "jump" them over the ocean to were the fighting is. Its a logistical thing. ;)

Killing what comes trough the cyno works as a counter ?

Someone didn't read the post I linked, otherwise you wouldn't have implied that that's what I suggested.

I did read what you suggested. You suggested that the game mechanics should half kill it for you with the push of a single button.

BAHAHAHA BURN!

all i hear is whinning

Killing what comes trough the cyno works as a counter ? Scouting what could come trough works as a counter ? Killing the cyno before all of them load grid works as a counter ? You just want a little "I'm safe" module because you you lack the competence to implement any of the exising ig counters. What in god's name makes you think a dice roll module is a good ideea ?

Not knowing how the next fight will unfold and trying to guess it's one of the best things about eve (and trust me, I've been on the reciving end more than once).

If you can't build it in low sec, then you shouldn't be able to field it in low sec.

I watched your buddies from DnD bridge on a carrier one night in Kinakka and the carrier was dead in under 30 or 40 seconds. Meaning there is little to no time for a counter in how Titian bridges are often used in low sec.

Well, we had dreads on field for 5 minutes, and a cyno up for 10.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13775106

I'm sure in CCP's grand scheme they intended these ships to bridge gangs into ongoing battles and not just used as gank toys for risk adverse PVP in low sec.

In a perfect world this would be true, of course it will never happen. Maybe a better option would create a risk vs reward factor for Titian bridges. Right now there is little to no risk for the fleets that are bridged other than being counter dropped which is unlikely to happen given how fast an entire fleet can be bridged on some unsuspecting small gang with just a few ships.

I watched your buddies from DnD bridge on a carrier one night in Kinakka and the carrier was dead in under 30 or 40 seconds. Meaning there is little to no time for a counter in how Titian bridges are often used in low sec.

I'm sure in CCP's grand scheme they intended these ships to bridge gangs into ongoing battles and not just used as gank toys for risk adverse PVP in low sec.

One solution that might allow a bit of a nerf and add at least a minor amount of "risk" would be to make any ship that uses the Titian's bridge zero out it's capacitor when it uses that bridge. This still allows a wow or surprise advantage, but also adds a bit of risk into the mix as the bridged fleet will have a few moments where they needed to regain their ship's cap in order to fight.

I don't think Titian's are totally out of place in EVE but they have become far to common when just about anyone can get them and bridge on top of anything with little concern of risking much of anything. It should also cost a hell of a lot more for the fuel. Say 50-100 mil per bridge use. Meaning it should be a notable cost, which could act as a determent in it's own right to being overly spammy with bridging.

The only thing still surprising is the fact how some still defend current cyno mechanics, suitable for ganktards only. Simply amazing.

Two thirds of the posters in this thread are from the alliance whose entire meaning of existance seems to be to abuse this mechanic, so its not all that surprising.

You mad bro? You seem mad bro.

Namely, the parties without them want them nerfed lol.

Got the toy, still think it's bad for the game.

I dont think you can speak for a significant fraction of bridge users.

If you keep falling for cyno bait, consider that a lesson in situational awareness. I know a guy who lost 6bn isk to a cov ops cyno the yesterday. Black Ops can bridge out of high sec, should they be nerfed too?

. Also why do titans need to bridge inside pos shields? seems like a strange mod to be allowed to activate in complete safety

On a side note, one fun idea I heard was that a titan bridge should turn the target cyno into a sort of wormhole. This would force the bridged force to defend until the cyno spooled down (generally what they already do, but only really afraid of enemy capitals/BS), in case some plucky ceptor pilot charges back through the hole and pops another cyno on the titan. Maybe this only works this way in lowsec, and 0.0 remains the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7AOyDFzzng

Probably one of the best fights ive been in was facilitated by titan bridges.

All parties will have had eyes on each others titans and they were simply used to get the fight started and keep it going.

If you keep falling for cyno bait, consider that a lesson in situational awareness. I know a guy who lost 6bn isk to a cov ops cyno the yesterday. Black Ops can bridge out of high sec, should they be nerfed too?

All this talk of nerfing bridges is highly partisan. Namely, the parties without them want them nerfed lol.

Are you suggesting the wormhole puts ships back into the pos (whereby hostile ships will be ejected immediately) or outside the pos (whereby they will be ripped apart by pos defenses), either way, thanks for the free extraction .. +1 for this idea.

That ultimately means that no matter how aggressive or foolhardy a titan bridging force may be, they always engage on their own terms.

Exactly. This is an instanced PvP and is no different to instanced PvE some other games have. The funny thing is how the same folks currently abusing one-way game mechanics PvP-wise moan about those wanting to run their lucrative hi-sec PvE activities in the same safety.

OP here, this thread was the result of research into countering titan bridges.

When DnD moved into Aridia they seemed like a great bunch to fight, but they relied heavily on titan bridges. Titan bridging gives the bridgers the initiative in a fight compared to non-bridgers. That ultimately means that no matter how aggressive or foolhardy a titan bridging force may be, they always engage on their own terms.

Fighting on your opponent's terms is the best way to welp a fleet, so I went looking for ways to counter DnD's bridges. If I could fight on my terms rather then on theirs I might be able to leverage faster ships and superior numbers to have a chance against their heavy-buffer triage doctrine. I was surprised to find that no such counters existed in lowsec. So I wrote up my findings and posted them for all to see.

I never intended to propose a change or fix, or even argue that bridges are broken or bad for the game. I even went so far as to say that I respect DnD for their tactics, and I do. All I wanted was to raise awareness, so thank you, especially to the trolls, you guys bring comedy to an otherwise bland thread.

Because the alternative is losing a 120billion isk ship everytime you try and use it. Every single lowsec bridging Titan is watchlisted by 100s of pilots, even moving one (whereby it's vulnerable for ~1 minute) is pretty risky business.

Make ship cynos have a short range, so that now you have to work both jumpers and cyno range.
This way instead of being a strategic redeployment they act more as a short range helicopter insertion.
Meanwhile POS bridges and cynos have their current ranges (maybe buffed, but be made high level sov structures)
Ways to effect the titan brige is make it 2 way now dropping you becomes a back door into their operations area
Other option is to require that the bridge adhere to the same rules as the pos mod-50 km from sheild thus the titan is at risk along with the fleet.
Combining these 2 make the battles more interesting as safety is removed thus placing the risk factor closer to reward while still allowing use of the titan.


Also why was the titans ability to doomsday subcaps removed?

I ALWAYS engage on my own terms.

That's what most advanced PvPers can safely state, they surely don't rush into fights blindly. But the point is, in conventional PvP both parties can 'negotiate' at equal terms and easily avoid engagement if 'negotiations' fail. That's impossible for hot-dropping.

Incorrect. I think you are arguing against your impression of bridging rather than the reality. Fact is that in low sec, unless the party you are bridging WANTS to engage you are only ever going to tackle a few people by virtue of the 10 seconds it takes to light the cyno, the bridge to go up and then all the fleet to load the new grid. During which time, the enemy fleet has bailed apart from whatever the in-cyno had tackle on.

Unless of course, they wanted a fight and/or they had eyes on your titain and had an escallation waiting for you.

This is the reality of low-sec titan bridging. The power of titan bridging in dullsec relates closely with bubbles i would guess, but who cares about dullsec anyway?

Because the alternative is losing a 120billion isk ship everytime you try and use it. Every single lowsec bridging Titan is watchlisted by 100s of pilots, even moving one (whereby it's vulnerable for ~1 minute) is pretty risky business.

There are just too many clueless people posting in this thread for it to be constructive. I will say this tho, pretty much all the people posting about nerfing bridging in here are the kind of playrs that prefer small ships and small gangs, well guess what? ... Titans barely affect your playstyle, so why even bother worrying about it. I could even turn this around and say "it's too easy for BC and below to escape the field before the bridged ships can even load grid QQ. Triple align times and make grid loading faster please so I can bridge more destroyer gangs, kkthnx"

Incorrect. I think you are arguing against your impression of bridging rather than the reality. Fact is that in low sec, unless the party you are bridging WANTS to engage you are only ever going to tackle a few people by virtue of the 10 seconds it takes to light the cyno, the bridge to go up and then all the fleet to load the new grid. During which time, the enemy fleet has bailed apart from whatever the in-cyno had tackle on.

Unless of course, they wanted a fight and/or they had eyes on your titain and had an escallation waiting for you.

This is the reality of low-sec titan bridging. The power of titan bridging in dullsec relates closely with bubbles i would guess, but who cares about dullsec anyway?

Unless of course, they wanted a fight and/or they had eyes on your titain and had an escallation waiting for you.

Are you kidding? I realize you likely don't solo much or even do small "roaming" gang PVP, but trust me there are people that will bait random small gangs for a titian bridge just for lols. Hell I've even been dropped on when I was solo in a Rupture.

Also why was the titans ability to doomsday subcaps removed?

If you can't build it in low sec, then you shouldn't be able to field it in low sec.

I'd have no problem with this, but vast chunks of null would have to be filled in in order to actually move ships around. Especially in the north. More NPC Nullsec perhaps?

Isn't the easy solution here to have the Titan jump along with his fleet? Let's do this Titan thing right.

1. Killing the bridged fleets detters future bridging .

Goddamn you United States military! How dare you be better funded and have better equipment then everyone you fight! No more tanks, body armor, air support, or drones for you! Only AK47s and suicide vests from now on! Gotta make sure it's equal!





* Devils Advocate.

Someone read the whole post...



The US has to have its ships/airfields/planes out where they can be destroyed, even if it does take fancier equipment.
Titans can sit fully inside a POS, making them invulnerable, and bridge a 250 man fleet to any cyno on a T1 frigate within 20LY

That doesn't sound the LEAST bit OP on paper.

.. an aircraft carrier sending off aircraft for combat while being surrounded by a support fleet essentially shielding and protecting it.. yea that is nothing like being in a POS.

Smart FC - Enemy Cyno Up. Align to sun.
*Local Spike - Check numbers
Smart FC - We can't take this. Warp warp warp.
* A couple ships get snagged like any other fleet roam and retreat.

This Kind of Reminds me of the whole logoff tactic, where someone would leave a bait ship, people would attack it, then 10 to 50 people would all logon at the same time, warp to 0, then blast the enemy...

.... I actually don't quite know the difference between that and the titan bridge.....

Hot drop's should not have been a tactic. Yes it is cool and spacelike... but the implication's are causing more grief than it is worth.

I wonder what would happen if they removed hot dropping from lowsec, and made it nullsec only... I'm sure there has been tons of "no supercaps in lowsec" arguments out there though.

It has to be modified, possibly removed. It was more fun to roam around than to wait in a POS for the guy to say "jump and own". I wonder who the real carebears are.

"haha we are in our POS shields with 50 guys, we have a group of 8 people and were following them!!!! We OwnZ!!!!"
"random guy in fleet: Hey why don't we just take 10 guys and warp over to them and brawl?!?!"
"fleet commander: What are you a Noob.. We Might LOSE something. We Lose Nothing, Wait in POS, Cry like a Baby, and DO what I say, We will own them cause We are AweSome, have five times their fleet, protected by our shield, and can jump them at will. Why the HECK would I bother running around in space, possibly running into a bubble, gatecamp, other pirates, other wartargets, other people.... This is safe, they can't do anything to us, and we bypass all the trouble of actually going after them. Now shutup!!!!"

"random guy in fleet: ..... but whats the point, this ain't PvP.."
"fleet commander: I SAID SHUT UP WE ARE SAFE NOBODY WILL BLOW US UP THEY CAN'T REACH US!?!?!"
"random guy in fleet: ... this sucks "leaves fleet"
"fleet commander: dork, Ok everybody else stay in the shield, I don't want to lose or risk any shinys".
"scout: Found them, group of 6"
"fleet commander: Light it, JUMP"
50 ships jump, Random skirmish happens, they blow up 2 ships"
"fleet commander: AHAH RUN COWARDS"
"fleet: HAHA RUN NOOBS, WE PVP Joo Gud!!!!"

................is that what actually happens?!?!?

Nope, not at all.

Most "Hotdroppers" are actually hoping for a proper fleet to drop on, a fight that might go either way. At least that's what I hope for, it's the most thrill you get in eve in my opinion.

ok now that is based on the assumption that people want a fair fight. No One Wants a fair fights.. people want to WIN, blow the Enemy to Bits, and Not lose a thing. People like the concept of a fair fight, proper fleet battles, but people do not like it above Winning the fight.

You are in a minority.

And in my experience, those epic fights usually happen when both sides drop in reinforcements/batphones via Titan bridge or simply by jumping in caps.

Sometimes those reinforcements are scouted beforehand, sometimes they are not, but in the end it comes down to the individual skill of the pilots and how the FC reacts under pressure rather than by the simple fact a Titan bridge was used.

Sup. o/

Because 00 sov fights, where everything is joining the field by using a titan bridge, are won due to the "individual skills of the pilots".

Too good to be true !

Quick recap;

Thread started by a gate camper who is terrified because his eyes 3 jumps out in every direction cannot see an incoming titan bridge and may lose his ship when all he wanted to do was 5v1 the odd guy coming though his gate.

OP neglects to acknowledge that getting eyes on enemy titans and avoiding habits that are vulnerable to titan bridges when they are set up is an effective counter.

Not much else happened after that.

Nope, not at all.

Most "Hotdroppers" are actually hoping for a proper fleet to drop on, a fight that might go either way. At least that's what I hope for, it's the most thrill you get in eve in my opinion.

However since they nerfed doomsday devices [WHICH HAVE NEVER WORKED IN LOW SEC] Titans really should have some value [IN 0.0 SPACE] to represent their enormous investment.

1) Jumping through gates is for peasants.

2) Italics are awesome.

3) If you aren't capable of adapting you are playing the wrong game.


Mike

Smart FC - Enemy Cyno Up. Align to sun.
*Local Spike - Check numbers
Smart FC - We can't take this. Warp warp warp.
* A couple ships get snagged like any other fleet roam and retreat.