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So the winner of this expansion is the Tengu?

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Ishmael Hansen Deep Space Falcons Honey Badger Coalition 0	Posted - 2012.12.06 01:49:00 - [1] - Quote The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies.
Vilnius Zar Ordo Ardish 292	Posted - 2012.12.06 01:58:00 - [2] - Quote Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. Amat victoria curam.
Sisohiv Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 134	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:12:00 - [3] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. fanboi sound off. --- Several changes were made that could be seen as better. - Augoror is a good ship in another MMO similar to EVE but without the I-Win Alpha based one shot mechanic. Speaking of drones, working as intended?
fukier Flatline. 226	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:14:00 - [4] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. what about drones? i am flying a domi with sentires atm... belt ratting... whats the problem? LTP people At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Sisohiv Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 135	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:19:00 - [5] - Quote fukier wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. what about drones? i am flying a domi with sentires atm... belt ratting... whats the problem? LTP people I don't think he said it couldn't be done. He said it wasn't worth the bother. I don't know if I'd agree. Chaining in the belts as as lucrative as it ever was, granted it reduces null systems to 5+ is over populated but that's another story.
Ishmael Hansen Deep Space Falcons Honey Badger Coalition 0	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:32:00 - [6] - Quote fukier wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. what about drones? i am flying a domi with sentires atm... belt ratting... whats the problem? LTP people I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries.
baltec1 Bat Country 3051	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:35:00 - [7] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries. My medium and lights are doing just fine.
ashley Eoner 64	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:43:00 - [8] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries. My medium and lights are doing just fine. Do a mission without using the exploit to remove drone aggro...
baltec1 Bat Country 3051	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:48:00 - [9] - Quote Spent all afternoon doing anoms, when they try to go after my drones I simply recall them. Honestly you are acting like a terrible miner pre barge buff.
Ishmael Hansen Deep Space Falcons Honey Badger Coalition 1	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:48:00 - [10] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: baltec1 wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries. My medium and lights are doing just fine. Do a mission without using the exploit to remove drone aggro... What is the exploit? And why the hell is this forum acting up on Opera Browser :(

Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 30	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:55:00 - [11] - Quote Still using a myrmidon to mission. The frigate and destroyer npc pretty much instapop out at 35km with 250mm Railgun II's. Of course the new AI requires more micromanaging the drones when they get aggro but this isn't any change to how I was doing it already.
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 30	Posted - 2012.12.06 02:56:00 - [12] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: ashley Eoner wrote: baltec1 wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries. My medium and lights are doing just fine. Do a mission without using the exploit to remove drone aggro... What is the exploit? And why the hell is this forum acting up on Opera Browser :( Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit
dexington Push button receive bacon 215	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:01:00 - [13] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. The drone mechanics was not great pre-patch, and they didn't exactly get better by giving us a npc ai the has increased chance of killing drones. While i have read posts saying everything is fine, some even claim they are better now, i still feel you are able to apply less drone dps do to increased drone management. The old npc ai was way to predictable, and it made npc fights boring as hell. CCP changed the AI for the right reasons, but i'll be honest a say the new drone mechanic can be annoying. My hopes is that it will makes CCP start working on new drones mechanics in the near future. A redesign of the drone menu would also be nice, if they want to increase drone management fine, but give us some decent/fun tools to do it. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Ishmael Hansen Deep Space Falcons Honey Badger Coalition 1	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:02:00 - [14] - Quote Caviar Liberta wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: ashley Eoner wrote: baltec1 wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries. My medium and lights are doing just fine. Do a mission without using the exploit to remove drone aggro... What is the exploit? And why the hell is this forum acting up on Opera Browser :( Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit lol, that is stupid, drone users already had the short stick. In the time we had to wait for some spawns to aggro we could finish it in a tengu.
Vilnius Zar Ordo Ardish 293	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:06:00 - [15] - Quote dexington wrote: Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. The drone mechanics was not great pre-patch, and they didn't exactly get better by giving us a npc ai the has increased chance of killing drones. While i have read posts saying everything is fine, some even claim they are better now, i still feel you are able to apply less drone dps do to increased drone management. The old npc ai was way to predictable, and it made npc fights boring as hell. CCP changed the AI for the right reasons, but i'll be honest a say the new drone mechanic can be annoying. My hopes is that it will makes CCP start working on new drones mechanics in the near future. A redesign of the drone menu would also be nice, if they want to increase drone management fine, but give us some decent/fun tools to do it. Just because it now takes effort doesn't mean it's bad. It's not bad and it's not problematic. It's only an issue for non-effort 5 yearolds and afk/bots (not saying you're either). Amat victoria curam.
Ishmael Hansen Deep Space Falcons Honey Badger Coalition 2	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:06:00 - [16] - Quote dexington wrote: Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. The drone mechanics was not great pre-patch, and they didn't exactly get better by giving us a npc ai the has increased chance of killing drones. While i have read posts saying everything is fine, some even claim they are better now, i still feel you are able to apply less drone dps do to increased drone management. The old npc ai was way to predictable, and it made npc fights boring as hell. CCP changed the AI for the right reasons, but i'll be honest a say the new drone mechanic can be annoying. My hopes is that it will makes CCP start working on new drones mechanics in the near future. A redesign of the drone menu would also be nice, if they want to increase drone management fine, but give us some decent/fun tools to do it. I like the idea of npcs/players shooting your turrets/launchers, with a turret hold like the drone bay. Then I would love to watch the whinning
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1840	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:10:00 - [17] - Quote It's funny because I thought tengus were being hit really hard. What should I believe, EVEO forums?! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Pohbis 119	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:14:00 - [18] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: I like the idea of npcs/players shooting your turrets/launchers, with a turret hold like the drone bay. Then I would love to watch the whinning Sure thing, they'll shoot free T2 ammo tho, yes?
Ioci Bad Girl Posse 243	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:21:00 - [19] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: It's funny because I thought tengus were being hit really hard. What should I believe, EVEO forums?! All drones go to heaven so it's OK. R.I.P. Vile Rat
dexington Push button receive bacon 215	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:33:00 - [20] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: dexington wrote: Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. The drone mechanics was not great pre-patch, and they didn't exactly get better by giving us a npc ai the has increased chance of killing drones. While i have read posts saying everything is fine, some even claim they are better now, i still feel you are able to apply less drone dps do to increased drone management. The old npc ai was way to predictable, and it made npc fights boring as hell. CCP changed the AI for the right reasons, but i'll be honest a say the new drone mechanic can be annoying. My hopes is that it will makes CCP start working on new drones mechanics in the near future. A redesign of the drone menu would also be nice, if they want to increase drone management fine, but give us some decent/fun tools to do it. Just because it now takes effort doesn't mean it's bad. It's not bad and it's not problematic. It's only an issue for non-effort 5 yearolds and afk/bots (not saying you're either). Drones takes more effort then other weapon systems, which is the downside of using drones but also what makes then fun to use. You can apply full dps/ewar/rep at close to any range with the right fit, not using cpu/pg/cap, but drones can die and they will die if you don't watch them. When running missions only to make isk, drones are reduced to just being a weapon system. And if it takes more effort and does less dps, it's less effective then other weapon system. I don't know if that means drones are bad/problematic/broken, but i do think it suggest there is room for improvement. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥

ashley Eoner 64	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:49:00 - [21] - Quote Caviar Liberta wrote: Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit That someone being a developer https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421 Quote: While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution. Thank you play again..
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc 889	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:52:00 - [22] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: It's funny because I thought tengus were being hit really hard. What should I believe, EVEO forums?! Inflation caught up to the game, so the tengu is number 1 again. I'm not shitposting.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1840	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:55:00 - [23] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Caviar Liberta wrote: Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit That someone being a developer https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421 Quote: While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution. Thank you play again.. So if my drones are being shot, I should either: a) Let them all die OR b) Recall them, but then I can't use any more drones for the rest of the fight in order to not be 'sploiting? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1840	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:55:00 - [24] - Quote rodyas wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: It's funny because I thought tengus were being hit really hard. What should I believe, EVEO forums?! Inflation caught up to the game, so the tengu is number 1 again. Oh that's great. I was just wondering about getting a HAMgu, I heard they were THE thing. Wait, I should buy it now, while people still think they suck? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
ashley Eoner 64	Posted - 2012.12.06 04:15:00 - [25] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: ashley Eoner wrote: Caviar Liberta wrote: Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit That someone being a developer https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421 Quote: While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution. Thank you play again.. So if my drones are being shot, I should either: a) Let them all die OR b) Recall them, but then I can't use any more drones for the rest of the fight in order to not be 'sploiting? I'm not a developer...
dexington Push button receive bacon 216	Posted - 2012.12.06 04:19:00 - [26] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: So if my drones are being shot, I should either: a) Let them all die OR b) Recall them, but then I can't use any more drones for the rest of the fight in order to not be 'sploiting? I was thinking the same, normally exploits would be illegal use of in-game mechanics, i don't really think saving you drones falls into that category. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 504	Posted - 2012.12.06 05:24:00 - [27] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. This gentleman has obvioulsy not been in a Forlorn Hub in null sec since this change lol. CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á
Oopsy Bear Massively Masochistic Machos 20	Posted - 2012.12.06 05:36:00 - [28] - Quote The problem with drones isn't the new AI. The problem is that if you take the skills points you have in drones and put them in anything else then you come out ahead. They are a waste of skill points.
Eli Green The Arrow Project 91	Posted - 2012.12.06 06:07:00 - [29] - Quote Drones are a primary weapon system? wumbo
Risien Drogonne Aliastra Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2012.12.06 06:19:00 - [30] - Quote Eli Green wrote: Drones are a primary weapon system? For a lot of ships, yes.

Eli Green The Arrow Project 91	Posted - 2012.12.06 06:21:00 - [31] - Quote Risien Drogonne wrote: Eli Green wrote: Drones are a primary weapon system? For a lot of ships, yes. 0/10 wumbo
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 5378	Posted - 2012.12.06 06:47:00 - [32] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. Did you know that you can use ships to shoot at things other than rats? PS Put a target painter on your drone boat. The sleeper AI hates EW much more than it hates drones MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
Rensari School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.12.06 07:16:00 - [33] - Quote Sentries can be ok after the changes if you watch them. But if you send any drones out farther than like 10km from your ship on certain level 4 missions, you will lose some. Even if you hit recall the second they start taking damage, they get focus fired en masse and die very quickly before they can get back. If you like using drones other than sentries in some of the more difficult level 4 missions, you will lose a lot of drones.
Surfin's PlunderBunny The Python Cartel. 4036	Posted - 2012.12.06 07:20:00 - [34] - Quote The Vaga might have won... that is pure sex right there "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á
ACE McFACE The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate 887	Posted - 2012.12.06 07:23:00 - [35] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. Then how about flying them THEN telling us whether they've been killed or not. "No one drove in New York, there was too much traffic."
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 38	Posted - 2012.12.06 07:29:00 - [36] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. Did you know that you can use ships to shoot at things other than rats? PS Put a target painter on your drone boat. The sleeper AI hates EW much more than it hates drones since it seems to be like sleepers add a remote repper too. they really hate logi's too. And you fix your drones in the process. I sense from the "drones as primary weapons" bit these ships aren't decked out with guns...you should be able to squeeze em in. Now if in a drake...squeeze in a link. That should be the trifecta since it should be an acitve mod they should monitor. Wh'ers please correct if I am wrong about links. .
Dar Manic Republic University Minmatar Republic 56	Posted - 2012.12.06 13:23:00 - [37] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Caviar Liberta wrote: Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit That someone being a developer https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421 Quote: While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution. Thank you play again.. I don't see anything in your link to indicate it is an exploit. A problem with programming having unintended results? Yes. Exploit? No. Bad programming <> exploit. People (hopefully) always have and (probably) will continue to recall drones when they are being aggro'd. Nothing has changed in that regard. Thank you play again.. I just don't understand null sec players. Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Escomboli Hammer Holding Wrong Hole. 13	Posted - 2012.12.06 13:39:00 - [38] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. Sentry shield Ishtar with drone damage mods is pretty good still. Maybe toss a remote armor rep in a high slot to keep the sents up if they pull argo, and you aren't quick enough to call them in. Just warp in, toss sents, orbit with ab on, win. If you can't use t2 sents use faction. You should really never lose a sentry drone unless you are hammered drunk and not paying attention/can't see the screen.
TheBlueMonkey Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance 211	Posted - 2012.12.06 13:55:00 - [39] - Quote Ratting in a sb still works
King Aires Coffee Sipper's Club The Forgotten Templars 21	Posted - 2012.12.06 14:23:00 - [40] - Quote While I think some of the changes to the AI suck, what the heck do you people think us WH people have been doing for the last couple years. Sleepers LOVE drones. Sleepers LOVE our support ships. If you are sad enough to not be paying attention then yes the drones die. This is no different from the way it is in WH's only mission rats are Pu-º-ºies compared to Sleepers.

Codie Dunier Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2012.12.06 14:31:00 - [41] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: baltec1 wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries. My medium and lights are doing just fine. Do a mission without using the exploit to remove drone aggro... Done that already. I don't use exploits at all. I just keep my drones in until the things trying to kill my drones are gone, and then use Hammerheads for extra Anti-Battleship DPS, since I've yet to see Battleships try to kill drones.
Rordan D'Kherr Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 235	Posted - 2012.12.06 14:37:00 - [42] - Quote Codie Dunier wrote: . I just keep my drones in until the things trying to kill my drones are gone, and then use Hammerheads for extra Anti-Battleship DPS, since I've yet to see Battleships try to kill drones. I can confirm that it works. _______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Arkon Olacar Imperial Guardians Tribal Band 182	Posted - 2012.12.06 14:52:00 - [43] - Quote And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why having renter pets is a bad idea. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012 Umad forum warriors?
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes 402	Posted - 2012.12.06 14:55:00 - [44] - Quote Haven't tried with carrier but pretty much nothing is different for belt ratting or null sec anoms with subcaps. For missions you need to make sure drones don't run off and die and might need to recall them a couple of times. Still haven't lost any drones.
Natsett Amuinn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 569	Posted - 2012.12.06 15:06:00 - [45] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: dexington wrote: Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. The drone mechanics was not great pre-patch, and they didn't exactly get better by giving us a npc ai the has increased chance of killing drones. While i have read posts saying everything is fine, some even claim they are better now, i still feel you are able to apply less drone dps do to increased drone management. The old npc ai was way to predictable, and it made npc fights boring as hell. CCP changed the AI for the right reasons, but i'll be honest a say the new drone mechanic can be annoying. My hopes is that it will makes CCP start working on new drones mechanics in the near future. A redesign of the drone menu would also be nice, if they want to increase drone management fine, but give us some decent/fun tools to do it. Just because it now takes effort doesn't mean it's bad. It's not bad and it's not problematic. It's only an issue for non-effort 5 yearolds and afk/bots (not saying you're either). I think you took more away from what they said then was there. He's absolutely right. The problem with drones isn't them getting blown up or needing to be micromanaged, it's the interface -mechanics-. He's not saying anything that the devs haven't said themselves. The drone mechanics need to be overhauled. I think it's pretty understandable for people to be annoyed with the changes. CCP probably could of held the NPC changes back and released it with an overhaul of the drone UI and made an entire expansion centered around the two. The drone mechanics are bad. "Effort" should not be something that is forced upon the player because the UI is **** to manage.
Ishmael Hansen Deep Space Falcons Honey Badger Coalition 6	Posted - 2012.12.06 15:24:00 - [46] - Quote Arkon Olacar wrote: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why having renter pets is a bad idea. lol, like that has anything to do with the issue. That is a totally different thing, and I would love to see cloaking devices have a inactivity timer, or the inability to log a second account if you cloaked more than 5 min :)
Vilnius Zar Ordo Ardish 305	Posted - 2012.12.06 15:27:00 - [47] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: Arkon Olacar wrote: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why having renter pets is a bad idea. lol, like that has anything to do with the issue. That is a totally different thing, and I would love to see cloaking devices have a inactivity timer, or the inability to log a second account if you cloaked more than 5 min :) Sounds like more renter/pet/grindbear ideas. Amat victoria curam.
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes 402	Posted - 2012.12.06 15:27:00 - [48] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: Arkon Olacar wrote: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why having renter pets is a bad idea. lol, like that has anything to do with the issue. That is a totally different thing, and I would love to see cloaking devices have a inactivity timer, or the inability to log a second account if you cloaked more than 5 min :) Sounds like more renter/pet/grindbear ideas. This
Ishmael Hansen Deep Space Falcons Honey Badger Coalition 6	Posted - 2012.12.06 15:36:00 - [49] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: Arkon Olacar wrote: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why having renter pets is a bad idea. lol, like that has anything to do with the issue. That is a totally different thing, and I would love to see cloaking devices have a inactivity timer, or the inability to log a second account if you cloaked more than 5 min :) Sounds like more renter/pet/grindbear ideas. I don't want to end cloakers, I just find it lame to disrupt an entire alliance isk grinding with AFK ALT cloakers, the same people who complain about AFK mission runners.
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes 403	Posted - 2012.12.06 15:43:00 - [50] - Quote AFK cloakers can't disrupt anything, only your fear .

K1netic Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.12.06 15:49:00 - [51] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Caviar Liberta wrote: Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit That someone being a developer https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421 Quote: While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution. Thank you play again.. reading comprehension 0/10. nowhere is she talking about exploits.
ashley Eoner 67	Posted - 2012.12.07 02:27:00 - [52] - Quote Dar Manic wrote: I don't see anything in your link to indicate it is an exploit. A problem with programming having unintended results? Yes. Exploit? No. Bad programming <> exploit. People (hopefully) always have and (probably) will continue to recall drones when they are being aggro'd. Nothing has changed in that regard. Thank you play again.. Since you obviously don't know the definition of exploit I'll help you out a bit. Quote: An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to oneGÇÖs own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerized). So when they fix this bug and your drones are slaughtered no matter what and you're perma jammed because the NPCS are using unnerfed ECM will you come to the forums and admit you're wrong or will you just hide and hope they fix this mess? Quote: Done that already. I don't use exploits at all. I just keep my drones in until the things trying to kill my drones are gone, and then use Hammerheads for extra Anti-Battleship DPS, since I've yet to see Battleships try to kill drones. I find it highly improbable that you're killing elite frigates without using drones or winmatar ACs with TEs and some distance. I sure wish my rigged and implant boosted nearly maxed cruise missiles/torps could hit a frigate worth a damned. With my skill set I'm stuck using anything and everything from TPs to MWDS to try to keep threat long enough to get some RR off on my drones.
DarthNefarius Minmatar Heavy Industries 462	Posted - 2012.12.07 04:43:00 - [53] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. Actually the Incursion Legion got a boost too with the lessened laser PG requirents so its easier to fit LOCUS rigs "Having a bad day? It takes 42 muscles to frown, but only 4 to pullthe trigger of a decent sniper rifle." - Dr. John D. Taylor
Dorian Wylde Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 195	Posted - 2012.12.07 05:52:00 - [54] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: Vilnius Zar wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: Arkon Olacar wrote: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why having renter pets is a bad idea. lol, like that has anything to do with the issue. That is a totally different thing, and I would love to see cloaking devices have a inactivity timer, or the inability to log a second account if you cloaked more than 5 min :) Sounds like more renter/pet/grindbear ideas. I don't want to end cloakers, I just find it lame to disrupt an entire alliance isk grinding with AFK ALT cloakers, the same people who complain about AFK mission runners. If they're AFK they can't hurt you. You are the one disrupting your isk farming with your foolish and hilarious paranoia.
Mr Pragmatic 120	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:44:00 - [55] - Quote I seriously don't see the problem with the frigates aggroing the drones. First off all you can fill your drone bay with crap drones if your afraid to lose isk. Second of all I don't deploy drones untill the frigates are dead. I attempt to alpha them from 20k and out. once they get under my guns I don't even worry about them. Their damage is miniscule. I play a t2 fit apocalypse and have no problem tanking frigates. To be fair tho I havn't ran into any web scrams while doing lv4s since the changes. Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -Aldous Huxley ( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) - "What are your modules like?"
Risien Drogonne Aliastra Gallente Federation 85	Posted - 2012.12.28 09:01:00 - [56] - Quote Eli Green wrote: Risien Drogonne wrote: Eli Green wrote: Drones are a primary weapon system? For a lot of ships, yes. 0/10 Are you stupid? If a ship's primary DPS comes from drones, then drones are its primary weapon system. It ain't rocket science.
ElQuirko Protus Correction Facility Inc. 990	Posted - 2012.12.28 11:04:00 - [57] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: I have 9m sp's in drones that are of no use if I can't use other drones besides sentries. Here's an idea: Hop in an arbitrator and go PVP. Your drone skills will be useful; the other day a lone arbitrator killed an Arazu and two Redeemers. I'd get the battle report but I really can't be bothered. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012
Djana Libra The Black Ops Black Core Alliance 49	Posted - 2012.12.28 11:10:00 - [58] - Quote the only winner is the rattlesnake that still works the old way, same range, same dps. Beats the crap out of a tengu on isk/hr
Roime Shiva Furnace 1503	Posted - 2012.12.28 11:19:00 - [59] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: lol, that is stupid, drone users already had the short stick. In the time we had to wait for some spawns to aggro we could finish it in a tengu. Why be bad in Eve? Ishtar has already popped first two frigs before Tengu's missiles even reach their target, which doesn't even die. As what comes to the topic, I still make 100-200mil/hr in the exact same Domi fit from PVE. I tried to remove this sig.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 11103	Posted - 2012.12.28 11:41:00 - [60] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit No, they're pretty much all unchanged, except a slight damage application reduction if you absolutely refuse to use anything but HMLs. ashley Eoner wrote: Caviar Liberta wrote: Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit That someone being a developer GÇªexcept of course, that no developer has ever said that it's an exploit in any way, shape, or form. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.

Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 953	Posted - 2012.12.28 11:50:00 - [61] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: belt ratting solo in a BS Wait, people really did this?
Alayna Le'line Battery Acid Skinny Dippers 64	Posted - 2012.12.28 11:58:00 - [62] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Dar Manic wrote: I don't see anything in your link to indicate it is an exploit. A problem with programming having unintended results? Yes. Exploit? No. Bad programming <> exploit. People (hopefully) always have and (probably) will continue to recall drones when they are being aggro'd. Nothing has changed in that regard. Thank you play again.. Since you obviously don't know the definition of exploit I'll help you out a bit. Quote: An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to oneGÇÖs own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerized). Only if it results in an unintended advantage, which is not the case since the "bug" is documented by CCP and left in the release version on purpose. This unintended behaviour will be fixed together when they make other changes to NPC AI (as was stated in the very same thread you so like to pull out of context) Now can you kindly stop spewing this drivel in every drone related thread, or just petition/bug report it and be told by CCP itself you are wrong since reason doesn't seem to work on you.
Sara XIII The Carnifex Corp 141	Posted - 2012.12.28 12:05:00 - [63] - Quote I love my Tengu. His name is Charlie. Charlie is happiest when we aggro entire rooms together. He is also very insistent that we always kill the small ships first. I love Charlie, he makes my wallet sparkle. Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Arduemont Rotten Legion Ops THE ROYAL NAVY 1001	Posted - 2012.12.28 12:38:00 - [64] - Quote My non faction fit Rattlesnake (Drone boat), now beats my ridiculously expensive faction fit tengu on all counts. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice."
destiny2 81	Posted - 2012.12.28 12:57:00 - [65] - Quote i find tier 3 battlecruisers work really well for belt ratting.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 3110	Posted - 2012.12.28 15:08:00 - [66] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Dar Manic wrote: I don't see anything in your link to indicate it is an exploit. A problem with programming having unintended results? Yes. Exploit? No. Bad programming <> exploit. People (hopefully) always have and (probably) will continue to recall drones when they are being aggro'd. Nothing has changed in that regard. Thank you play again.. Since you obviously don't know the definition of exploit I'll help you out a bit. Quote: An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to oneGÇÖs own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerized). So when they fix this bug and your drones are slaughtered no matter what and you're perma jammed because the NPCS are using unnerfed ECM will you come to the forums and admit you're wrong or will you just hide and hope they fix this mess? Quote: Done that already. I don't use exploits at all. I just keep my drones in until the things trying to kill my drones are gone, and then use Hammerheads for extra Anti-Battleship DPS, since I've yet to see Battleships try to kill drones. I find it highly improbable that you're killing elite frigates without using drones or winmatar ACs with TEs and some distance. I sure wish my rigged and implant boosted nearly maxed cruise missiles/torps could hit a frigate worth a damned. With my skill set I'm stuck using anything and everything from TPs to MWDS to try to keep threat long enough to get some RR off on my drones. You really need to learn that a bug becomes an exploit when CCP says it does, regardless of how you personally feel about it. You also need to learn to put a target painter on your drone boat. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Hannah Flex Elite Market PvP Consortium 17	Posted - 2012.12.28 16:43:00 - [67] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: Whining, hyperbole and nonsense. Droneboats are fine if you're capable of not being a lazy idiot, it's the same for ships who use drones as secondary dps. The current case for PVE is that carebears and casuals play EVE to ~relax~ and should not be challenged by things like paying attention to mining lasers and cargo capacity and drones and aggro and certainly not another player coming to disturb my ~relaxation~
De'Veldrin East India Ore Trade The East India Co. 661	Posted - 2012.12.28 16:54:00 - [68] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Caviar Liberta wrote: Someone was trying to say that recalling your drones to remove aggro from them is some kind of exploit That someone being a developer https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421 Quote: While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution. Thank you play again.. Please learn the difference between a 'defect' and an 'exploit'. They are not the same thing. Bumping, leave it alone.
Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 190	Posted - 2012.12.28 17:19:00 - [69] - Quote I think the winner is General Tso's Alliance, but that's just me. I used to wait for people to shoot back in lowsec to lose less sec (because I like to get into hisec from time to time), now I wait for them to shoot back so I can pod them sec-loss free. I used to go on roams through lowsec just to get kills, now those kills pay me. I used to ally in wars against aggressors for the thrill of PVP, now I get paid for those kills directly (with properly chosen wars). We used to just get raged at in local and get some laughs when we killed people. Now they can put a bounty on us so we can laugh every time one of our members gets killed because of the price on their head. I used to take joy hunting down personal kill rights, now I can do the same for others. We used to fly T1 fit T1 cruisers and frigates to encourage more fights from wt's and to encourage new players to join up without feeling inadequate, now those ships kick all holy ass. We used to hate neutral RR interfering in hisec wars, but with the suspect flag making that RR flagged for everyone to pounce on, it makes fights a lot more fair. The only drawback is scanning out mission runners and then getting attacked by the rats, but its a small pittance compared to the awesome additions. Hey, as a dude that lives in lowsec, you should read my idea on how to "fix" it... in Blog format, complete with a spreadsheet! http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-buff-lowsec.html
masternerdguy Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E. 1023	Posted - 2012.12.28 17:21:00 - [70] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Ishmael Hansen wrote: belt ratting solo in a BS Wait, people really did this? Yes. Back in my day the raven was the nullsec belt ratter of choice. Things are only impossible until they are not.

March rabbit Federal Defense Union 400	Posted - 2012.12.28 17:29:00 - [71] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: Just because it now takes effort doesn't mean it's bad. It's not bad and it's not problematic. It's only an issue for non-effort 5 yearolds and afk/bots (not saying you're either). increasing needed :effort: without increased payout people usually consider as nerf.
ctx2007 Wychwood and Wells Beer needs you 232	Posted - 2012.12.28 22:39:00 - [72] - Quote Hahahahaha!! the tengu the winner, No! i have lost 3 in just 15 days against sansha in missions I was ripping through before the expansion. Simply because of the new missile nerf and increased NPC AI They were well fitted out but when 4 warp scramblers get you, kiss your arse goodbye. So well done CCP lvl4s are more challenging now makes the game more interesting and dangerous. Just what it needed!! I,m glad they did it it was just becoming a grind.
Ashterothi Aideron Robotics 131	Posted - 2012.12.28 23:03:00 - [73] - Quote TIL nullsec is all of EVE. Aideron Robotics is hiring for the Gallente Federation war effort! https://www.aideronrobotics.com/wiki/Applying
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 360	Posted - 2012.12.28 23:16:00 - [74] - Quote Sara XIII wrote: I love my Tengu. His name is Charlie. Charlie is happiest when we aggro entire rooms together. He is also very insistent that we always kill the small ships first. I love Charlie, he makes my wallet sparkle. Mine's named "Ginette" and I love "Ginette" too.
Thomas Orca Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 134	Posted - 2012.12.29 03:48:00 - [75] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. ** new rat AI and all the **** carriers that are now using sentries because of it.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1819	Posted - 2012.12.29 04:20:00 - [76] - Quote Ishmael Hansen wrote: The only ship that can still carebear with pre retribution fit? aka pve fit belt ratting solo in a BS isn't worth the trouble, bought a new shinning Astarte last week, 1347 dps with a whooping 3km optimal, meh, not worth the trouble, also sig is too big comparing to the tengu. Drone boats got killed, haven't flown the Ishtar nor Domi, but I guess it doesn't matter to have big drone range if they get insta popped by rats, I guess it's the same with Carriers running anomalies. My Vindicator hasn't changed & is still better than your Tengu. The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable
ACESsiggy Echoes of Silence 28	Posted - 2012.12.29 06:09:00 - [77] - Quote Drone boats are dead is an understatement..... they now lose money running missions. GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Super spikinator Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.12.29 07:05:00 - [78] - Quote Eli Green wrote: Risien Drogonne wrote: Eli Green wrote: Drones are a primary weapon system? For a lot of ships, yes. 0/10 Oneiros, Guardians, Basilisks and Scimitars have to get their greenboard somehow.
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 231	Posted - 2012.12.29 09:03:00 - [79] - Quote Did 32+ missions today few drones got some paint burns and i lost one hob II set to aggresive(it have function now it is to shoot things while you are jammed or TD or to send light drones do their demise) 5 hobs went to kill in world collide guri room flight of elite frigs without my consent 4 got home..can anyone do something about this drone killing spree i will stop paying for this game cant take it anymore. I mean NPC see incoming drones and recognize it as threat ..WHAT IS THIS MADNESS..how could they IMPOSSIBBRU!1!11one!one! "it put ore down in can or it gets the hose again" Leeloo Dallas Multipass - "Big bada boom" http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 342	Posted - 2012.12.29 09:20:00 - [80] - Quote ctx2007 wrote: Hahahahaha!! the tengu the winner, No! i have lost 3 in just 15 days against sansha in missions I was ripping through before the expansion. Simply because of the new missile nerf and increased NPC AI They were well fitted out but when 4 warp scramblers get you, kiss your arse goodbye. So well done CCP lvl4s are more challenging now makes the game more interesting and dangerous. Just what it needed!! I,m glad they did it it was just becoming a grind. I hope you mean full room aggro issue was something that caused such losses. Otherwise it just doesn't compute for me.



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