I'll just leave this trivial question here:

"How much ISK per hour is the "fair amount" that an hi seccer should be able to do?"

I am really interested in the answers.

but if eve is sandbox why dont you make iskmaking in highsec more dangerous?you can do it

yeah you will loose a lot of ships,but thats the risk - are you willing to take it? if not why should i take risk flying to lowsec?

Depends on how long one has been playing the game. The longer you have played, the more you should be able to make.

A Hi Sec Vet should be able to make more than a Null Sec noob.

Says the guy who is in a coalition, and trained to use capitals. Lets talk about how much effort it is for you.

Cynos really take most of the effort out of transporting things. Here I thought it was a game about effort.

First thing someone does when they join a coalition is figure out how to get their stuff down there. Is it through putting in the effort to jump through 40 gates through null? No, all it takes is 1 or 2 carrier jumps and you have all the stuffs moved.

Effort right?

I mean, since you have a carrier, you could just quit your alliance and go somewhere else. Undock, jump to lit cyno in lowsec and you can start your trek to the other side of the galaxy if you wanted too. So, less effort to leave null as well.

SP really helps in null. it factors on how much "effort" you have to put in.

Maybe Null isn't for me, for now, but that doesn't mean highsec isn't for me right now.

once you can use a carrier (for transport), the difficulty of living in null dramatically decreases.

Just because null isn't for someone, doesn't mean they shouldn't be playing Eve, that is a dumb and knee-jerk argument.

And when the community put together hulkageddons what happened? The highseccers cried and cried and eventually CCP handed them ridiculous buffs and crimewatch 2.0.

And as a result of that the New Order popped up, and again what happened? Highseccers crying and crying about "bumping"...

Honestly OP, why should you care? If I had more time to spend at this game, I would definitely look to join a nullsec corp/alliance. All this drivel about being 'just another drone' is getting really old.

And I'll let you in on a secret... They keep poking at hisec 'carebears' because of the abundance of tears and butthurt it generates. It's just hilarious how some people get mad and keep posting insane **** just because some 'nullsec zealot' said something about nerfing their income.

p.s great poasting Jenn. You said most of what needs to be said. +1000 if I could.

Your analogy is off. It's not some kid in a corner minding his own business, it's a kid on a swing , STAYING on the swing so no one else can use it (basically affecting the whole play ground) then wondering why his ass got knocked off the swing "when he wasn't doing nothin to no one".

I would say that it is only a vocal minority that complains about Hi Sec.
The following is about that vocal minority.

I would also say that the main reason many of them complain is because that they felt cheated because they were told that Null was the shiznit of all New Eden and they found that there isn't too many easy targets out there for them after awhile.

They found that they actually have to work to get on enough KMs to soothe their ego, because many of the players who are active out there are active out there because they have been able to survive to make it worth their while, so they don't get killed too often.

After a while they got bored. They then heard of this mistical place where players can play the game without too much interference from other players. Where they can mine and mission to their hearts content and actually enjoyed this.

This made the unhapply null dude sad, then he got angry. No one can enjoy this game if he can't. Besides, how can someone enjoy this PvP game by mainly doing PvE in this mistical somewhat safe place.

First the unhapply null dude tried to get CCP to change it so all the top Hi Sec stufff get moved to Low or Null. When that didn't happen the unhappy null dude decided if these Hi Sec "Carebears" won't come to them for the PvP he enjoys, then he will bring the PvP to them. That will change their ways.

Hence came the war on Hi Sec, until they come to their senses and go PvP in Null Sec so the unhappy null dude doen't have to work so hard to make his KB look so good.



Obviously it is far more complicated than this, but from my experiences in Null Alliances, Pirate Corps, and running missions myself; It is amazing how much of it can be boiled down to this uneasy truth.

Some players can not stand it when other players enjoy parts of this game that they do not, and will do all they can to destroy those other players enjoyment of the gameplay they chose to take part in. Seen it in the kindergarden sand box all too often and it is interesting how little things change.

Highsec players don't play the game the way nullsec players want them to...

Nullsec wants more mindless drones to "orbit and press F1" to fight their wars and boost their oversized egos...

Jenn aSide!!!...I do not know if you have kids...but if you do and if you are telling your kid to "knockoff" other kids that stay to long on a swing...expect him/her to eventually come home with a shinner or something....and that would be your fault .

Seriously...!

The "unhappy nullsec guy" is another such lie. .

Maybe in your experiences, but I had to listen to such BS about the evils of the "Hi Sec carebear" from whinny Null Sec warriors on TS on many Alliance roams over the years.

I enjoy all parts of the game, Null Sec, Low Sec, and Hi Sec; but I can't stand it when people blame others for their lack of enjoyment of the game.

The whinny Null Sec Warrior is the worse offender in this regard at this time, in my opinion.

They are the ones who seem to want to force more players into Low and Null, by consistently trying to get content moved there from Hi Sec.

But what is your point?

The probably just you seeing what you want to see, rather than what is. Most null sec players I've known don't give a damn about anything other than the next fight or complex.

Maybe in your experiences, but I had to listen to such BS about the evils of the "Hi Sec carebear" from whinny Null Sec warriors on TS on many Alliance roams over the years.

I enjoy all parts of the game, Null Sec, Low Sec, and Hi Sec; but I can't stand it when people blame others for their lack of enjoyment of the game.

The whinny Null Sec Warrior is the worse offender in this regard at this time, in my opinion.

They are the ones who seem to want to force more players into Low and Null, by consistently trying to get content moved there from Hi Sec.

SP really helps in null. it factors on how much "effort" you have to put in.

You can use a carrier and that makes it so much easier to do things in Null. Your post proved it, thank you. Now that you have justfied my point, let me refine it.

Mobility is life in Null, if you need to move somewhere and you don't need to rely on someone else, that means you can move on YOUR terms, in YOUR time. Easy for someone with the SP, much harder for someone who can just barely fly a battleship.

Maybe it is because you think you put so much effort into living in null, so you feel entitled to brag about your effort to those who hardly put any effort in (comparatively) and make isk in highsec.

Am I the only one that sees null sec guys trying to give rational and thoughfull answers, only to met with mostly insult?

Am I the only one that sees null sec guys trying to give rational and thoughfull answers, only to met with mostly insult?

This is completely wrong.

One, you're pulling the persecution card. No one cares where you play.

Two, no one is forcing anyone anywhere. Providing an incentive to go elsewhere, yes. Balancing the risk and reward, yes. Magically transporting every hisec player to null, low, and wormhole space and closing all the stargates to hisec, no.

Three, no one is even saying that hisec needs to be nerfed. Null and Low's issues could theoretically be fixed by straight buffs. But right now, as it stands, the risk vs. reward ratio is hilariously stupid in every possible way.

Maybe not so much insult as deflection. Just like the guy I'm in the "effort" discussion with, you see him quote my posts out of context rather than actually talk about the actual issues.

I think that in GD we see people personalities play out. The type of person who enjoys the whole game (the so called null bear or whatever) is used to thinking about issues and problems critically and posts that way (because like real life, low/null/WHs PUNISH stupidity where as high sec perpetuates bad/reckless behaviors).

The players who practice the most "avoidance of discomfort" (the high sec dweller who avoids the nastier parts of EVE) practice the most "avoidance of discussion" as well. We're all playing to type in a way.

Lolz infinitely scaling Level 4 missions under CONCORD's protection nuff said

(I can play this game too)

Maybe not so much insult as deflection. Just like the guy I'm in the "effort" discussion with, you see him quote my posts out of context rather than actually talk about the actual issues.

I think that in GD we see people's personalities play out. The type of person who enjoys the whole game (the so called null bear or whatever) is used to thinking about issues and problems critically and posts that way (because like real life, low/null/WHs PUNISH stupidity where as high sec/government protection perpetuates bad/reckless behaviors).

The players who practice the most "avoidance of discomfort" (the high sec dweller who avoids the nastier parts of EVE) practices the most "avoidance of discussion" as well. We're all playing to type in a way.

I can't see any way in which high sec activity affects null happenings in any significant way. At most, the profits of activities in highsec affect market prices, which can affect nullsec players. If anything, though, nullsec players should see this as a boon, if it keeps material, module, and ship prices down. Although even then, from what I understand, larger nullsec corps and alliances manufacture many of their own materials anyway.

Not when you're not within titan bridge range of said opponent you can't.......

They tend to not care because it's "their playstyle" they're only interested in, as apposed to actually considering the game as a whole,...

Don't go thinking ALL people who live in highsec are there because they hate risk.