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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Eight Two
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
9
   |
Posted - 2012.12.14 04:01:00 -
[391] - Quote
I can't believe I'm actually bothering with this... but here it goes.
So, a lot of this really boils down to the ballpark argument.
Kid A has a ball and is not willing to play, let alone hand off the ball to someone else. How about instead of picking on the kid and running to you parents crying to make them take the ball form the kid, have your parents buy you your own ball?
Seriously, this agenda-hump*ng has been going on way too long and it always comes down to taking stuff out of the game from one part and throwing it in again at another part. That's just not how it's gonna work out, neither for highsec dwellers nor nullbears.
Yes, it's massively easier to make isk in highsec with little risk involved, but then again instead of asking for a nerf why not ask for a rebalance or once? The difference between the two is insane and does actually matter.
Believe it or not, there's people that actually can't be arsed to pay supsription fees for a second job. That is like asking to pay someone to clean their toiltes in their free time and hoping to have fun with it. This place is going to go down that very same toilet that (since it has been mentioned here) i.e. Ultima Online did, yet a lot faster since the casual players will just move on and play something else.
Unfortunately that is all there is in nullsec - another lousy job for bad pay.
That means your 5 plexed alts will unfortunately not be enough to keep the servers running as there's no money in Eve anymore. Get over the stupid idead of Eve being CCP's welfare pet project because they make oh so much money elsewhere.
The more you try to force one player base out of the game to feed your own ego and/or wallets, the faster this place is gonna be gone.
If only half of the omganothernerfhighsec and the the nullbear crowd were as vocal about CCP fixing their goddamn game mechanics as they are about spitting their agenda driven nonsense (yes, that goes for both sides) all over the forums, Eve could actually become a better game.
But oh well, it will only take another million threadnoughts to finally see that happen.  |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1836
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 04:29:00 -
[392] - Quote
Why can't we all just get along.jpeg |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1901
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 04:35:00 -
[393] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Why can't we all just get along.jpeg
We have a massive list of blues ...
Our getting along with people is killing EVE.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Marlona Sky
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
2282
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 05:07:00 -
[394] - Quote
I'm actually surprised the mega coalition has not demanded npc null be turned into player sov systems.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Galaxy Pig
Red Galaxy
Persona Non Gratis
287
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 05:15:00 -
[395] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:Oh, okay. DEATH TO THE CAREBEARS! They're ruining EVE! They pose a threat! I'm not concerned with the specifics!
PURGE THEM ALL!!! \o/ Umm you do realize that hiding in Hi-sec and attacking defenseless ships makes you a carebear right?
Dude, you already admitted that you're just trolling, though skillfully. So git. Lol |
Nivyalon
Sun Orchid Space Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 05:25:00 -
[396] - Quote
I don't know if this has been addressed, but this is is my most important point. To my knowledge all of the isk in EVE is generated by NPCs and distributed to the player population through player-npc interaction. Thus high sec is the source of nearly all the isk in player circulation. If the income of high sec (as a whole) was reduced less total isk would enter into player hands.
If the reduction was large enough the subsequent market fallout would be like the market effects after the chain failure of banks during the Great Depression.
For EVE's economy to be truly balanced the whole game would have to be null sec, but this runs into several problems. First video games de-humanize social contact so the average disposition tends to be more sadistic . Second reality can't be "broken" . Third no video game has ever reached a played population large enough so that the population alone can produce the stabilizing effect necessary to utilize a abstract currency, so a video game needs to have a ballast that can be leveraged to make up that short fall. Fourth this would result in a division of labor even more stratified that reality. In real life, except for entrepreneurship which is often very risky (financially) with sometimes incredible profits, risk whether financial or physical is inversely related to profit. This is because high paying jobs almost invariably require an intensive education, the analog of which in EVE is skills which can only be trained in a set amount of real time. So the new players would be stuck with risky low paying jobs and all the older players would have low risk, high paying jobs. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
2233
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 05:28:00 -
[397] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:If, as nullbears like to lie claim, 75% of hisec is nothing but their own nullbear alts... what do they hope to gain from nerfing hisec? They'd only be nerfing themselves, right?
It's like this: the people who make the loudest noise about making activity X harder are usually the ones who feel most compelled to participate in activity X even though they don't enjoy it. So the noise that nullbears are making about hisec income being too high reflects their addiction to ISK injections into their wallets: they are grinding missions and incursions in hisec because they want the ISK, and they naturally gravitate to the ISK sources that require the least effort for a suitable ISK injection.
Think of it like fat kids asking the government to ban Macdonalds. The food is horrible, it's making them fat and giving them acne, but they still eat at Macdonalds because it's easier than cooking nourishing meals at home. They truly believe that banning fast food will give them the motivation to cook at home (because the other option is eating at proper restaurants where each meal costs as much as a week's food budget). Of course all that will happen is that they will gravitate to the next easiest thing to do (e.g.: slumming off their friends and then complaining that their friends have abandoned them, or eating at restaurants and then whining that restaurants cost too much).
Of course another option is that the null bears live on the pain and anguish of others. Having mired all of nullsec in NIPs and NAPs, the null bears are making noise about hisec incomes simply to get CCP to nerf hisec, because the null bears look forward to the tears that will flow from players and CCP alike when hisec carebears cancel accounts en masse.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
117
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 05:44:00 -
[398] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:
But as to miners, sorry shooting people who you know cannot shoot back is just cowardice pure and simple.
They attack miners in hi-sec because they are worse carebears than the carebears, they hide behind concord protection to protect them from getting ganked, so that they are safe to gank the defenceless.
Nice hypocrisy, the miners using Concord is right and the gankers using Concord is wrong?
Do you understand that high-sec ganking is valid and perfectly legal way of enjoying the high-sec experience, just like mining or running missions? Or are you now dictating to everyone else which activities are acceptable and which are not?
Perhaps you should stick with the rules made by CCP. |
Nivyalon
Sun Orchid Space Inc
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 05:58:00 -
[399] - Quote
1)If a police officer sees you assualt someone they will come after you
2)If a police officer sees you assault someone and people run to help that person the officer won't come after them as long as they don't get in the way
If you steal from someone and they try to get it back so you assault them see number 1
If you steal from someone and they try to get it back so you assault them and people come to your victims aid see number 2
Taking into account that real police aren't immortal/invincible
original eve legal system was not this
current eve legal system is this |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 06:20:00 -
[400] - Quote
i dislike "bears" being being given a prefix and used and/or applied in a negative connotation towards groups of people.
poor bears. they just want to eat honey and salmon and scratch their backs against trees...and not be a associated with video game politics.
have a care for all bears everywhere. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1177
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 06:25:00 -
[401] - Quote
Like I said earlier, if you..............
Ah heck, I just can't participate in this one.
-á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1837
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 07:33:00 -
[402] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:Why can't we all just get along.jpeg We have a massive list of blues ... Our getting along with people is killing EVE.
You guys are killing Eve.... again? |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
2236
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 07:33:00 -
[403] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:i dislike "bears" being being given a prefix and used and/or applied in a negative connotation towards groups of people.
But then there are the Care BearsGäó who teach our youth that all the problems in the world can be solved by thinking happy thoughts and loving the people trying to kill you.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
2236
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 07:34:00 -
[404] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:Why can't we all just get along.jpeg We have a massive list of blues ... Our getting along with people is killing EVE. You guys are killing Eve.... again?
s/again/still/
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
946
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 09:19:00 -
[405] - Quote
I have removed some trolling from this thread.
Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
9084
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 09:33:00 -
[406] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:But then there are the Care BearsGäó who teach our youth that all the problems in the world can be solved by thinking happy thoughts and loving the people trying to kill you.
Hide your blade behind a smile? Ring a bell? I thought so... 
"Ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!"
Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM) |
Pitt POssum
Atztech Inc.
Ixtab.
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 09:47:00 -
[407] - Quote
The complain so much about highsec because they have too much time on their hands, when they are docked up all day because there was a neut in local 2 weeks ago. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
5481
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 10:43:00 -
[408] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:What was this thread about again? Like 95% of GD threads, it's about slinging manure between two opposite barricades.
You've certainly done your best to make it that way.
Well played, I suppose.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2292
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 11:18:00 -
[409] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:What was this thread about again? Like 95% of GD threads, it's about slinging manure between two opposite barricades. You've certainly done your best to make it that way. Well played, I suppose.
Sure, in your opinion I should let hooligans free reign and say on the game I love.
What about no?
Eve was better in 2009 than now, EvE had more activity and even null sec action in 2009.
Let's see how between CCP's unforgivable patches a la Dominion and those "elite experts all coming from the same space" they have borked the game.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 11:47:00 -
[410] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Let's see how between CCP's unforgivable patches a la Dominion and those "elite experts all coming from the same space" they have borked the game.
You should try to get into the next CMS instead of Issler or something. You'd be just as useless as her but at least you would shut up. |
baltec1
Bat Country
3291
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 11:51:00 -
[411] - Quote
SaKoil wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Let's see how between CCP's unforgivable patches a la Dominion and those "elite experts all coming from the same space" they have borked the game.
You should try to get into the next CMS instead of Issler or something. You'd be just as useless as her but at least you would shut up.
We don't need another spoon chucker. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
673
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 11:52:00 -
[412] - Quote
SaKoil wrote:[You should try to get into the next CMS instead of Issler or something. You'd be just as useless as her but at least you would shut up.
I dunno, Issler's nowhere near as shrill or ridiculous.
"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 12:34:00 -
[413] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:SaKoil wrote:[You should try to get into the next CMS instead of Issler or something. You'd be just as useless as her but at least you would shut up. I dunno, Issler's nowhere near as shrill or ridiculous.
Well, she is pretty damn shrill and ridiculous. Oh, wait.. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
5487
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 12:54:00 -
[414] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Malcanis wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:What was this thread about again? Like 95% of GD threads, it's about slinging manure between two opposite barricades. You've certainly done your best to make it that way. Well played, I suppose. Sure, in your opinion I should let hooligans free reign and say on the game I love. What about no? Eve was better in 2009 than now, EvE had more activity and even null sec action in 2009. Let's see how between CCP's unforgivable patches a la Dominion and those "elite experts all coming from the same space" they have borked the game.
By your own account, you've deliberately loaded this thread with divisive, partisan point-scoring because of things that other people said a while ago in other threads that hurt your precious feelings. You've done your absolute best to make this thread into another "hi-sec vs 0.0" mudslinging event in order to justify your premise that all threads about 0.0 rebalancing are like this and, I rather suspect, in order to divert or sabotage any productive discussion of the issue. I know you've done it deliberately, because I'm perfectly well aware that you're far too intelligent to have done it accidentally.
I'm giving you all the respect you're due here. I respect your intelligence. I respect your ability to make a lot of ISK within the EVE economy. I respect your success in truncating any attempt to discuss the imbalances which you so successfully leverage for your own gain.
As I said: well played.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2292
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 13:48:00 -
[415] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I'm giving you all the respect you're due here. I respect your intelligence. I respect your ability to make a lot of ISK within the EVE economy. I respect your success in truncating any attempt to discuss the imbalances which you so successfully leverage for your own gain.
As I said: well played.
Imagine this, I wanted to say the same  , because I actually like a lot of your posts. And your old signature.
As for truncating and stuff, the thing is two fold:
1) I have an unstoppable, instinctive and defensive reaction when people start talking about "nerfs" as an easy cure for intricate issues (as I said in another post, how do you fairly quantify how much to nerf something with no risk, in order to bring it in line with something with risk?).
2) My not hidden agenda is to increase the markets volumes, because that makes EvE markets more realistic and this in turn helps me and Block Ukx create new financial instruments (he's trying to introduce futures again ATM, me a secondary market exchange). Needless to say, I don't exactly like stuff that risks making all our very long and hard efforts void.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
634
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 14:32:00 -
[416] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote:
I would also like to know "why won't you leave us alone" not because i want you to leave me alone but because I would like to understand what i am doing that is so wrong.
You didn't do anything wrong. you chose to play a game with other people, which implies consent to be interacted with. Choices have consequences.
If you had chosen to play a single player game and i jumped through your window so I could play with you, that would be wrong, you didn't choose to play with me. But logging on to eve is choosing to play with me. So play we shall.
Quote:
I do not get along with others well, so i like playing solo.
Then your choice to play an mmo that features non-consensual pvp is a bad choice.
Quote:
I like Concord's protection.
I am having fun mining, doing missions and manufacturing.
I have dipped into wormholes and plan to expand in that direction.
Nothing wrong with those activities. I am an Explorer and I also fight for the Freedom of New Eden agains the raving Sansha Hordes (ie I shoot npcs and null sec and high sec lol)
Quote:
I do not believe in going out of my way to pick a fight and will run from one if i am able.
I do not see the point in fighting other players if there is no profit.
I recognize there is a lot of players that feel differently but i do not see how that makes them right and me wrong.
I am playing well within the rules of the game and having fun.
I do not see that i have to have fun at the expense of others.
Every isk you gain in bounty, every ship you build, every Loyalty point you gain, every piece ore you mine lessens the value of tings possessed by other players. By adding things to a game with other people in it, you CONSENT to be interacted with.
If you don't want to be interacted with, do nothing but fly around and look at stars.
Quote:
Could you explain how I am so wrong and maybe why you seem to feel the need to campaign against me and people like me.
Am I evil?
Evil? No (only Mittani is evil, and you sir are no Jack Kenned...I mean Mittani), you are greedy, selfish, ignorant and unwilling to accept responsibility for your actions if (and ONLY IF) you believe you should be able to come into MY game and do things to me (like make my isk worth less by making your own isk) without me having any way to retaliate.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game.
-á |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
634
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 14:36:00 -
[417] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote:Some Rando wrote:Bud Austrene wrote:I am having fun mining, doing missions and manufacturing. All of which inject ISK, materials, or finished goods into the economy, unless you're one of those people who never touch the market. Thus, you affect other players. Bud Austrene wrote:I do not see that i have to have fun at the expense of others. You affect other players, thus you are having fun at their expense. Your goods and ISK factor into the equation, thus you should be free game for all. I did not realize that i was having fun and anyone's expense. I thought it was a win-win situation. I am not complaining about being a target i am just curious what evil i am doing that causes you to think you are justified in making me a target. If you do the same things i do you can have the same things i have. I am beginning to think that the justification that you and others like you are using is basically that I am not like you and don't think like you.
I'm going to ask you high sec people (not just you Bud), Why in hell you keep coming back to this? Why do you think it's personal?
You are nobody to me, you might as well by a Guristas NPC Battleship as far as I care.
The difference between you and a Guristas NPC Battleship is that the Guristas never ask me why I don't like their playstyle when i slaughter them by the tens of thousand and take the loot + bounty. I kill them because they are there and ccp gave me guns for my space ship.
Did you really come into a game with guns on space ships and expect to not get shot at? WTF are they teaching in public schools these days?
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game.
-á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
5489
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 14:52:00 -
[418] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
1) I have an unstoppable, instinctive and defensive reaction when people start talking about "nerfs" as an easy cure for intricate issues (as I said in another post, how do you fairly quantify how much to nerf something with no risk, in order to bring it in line with something with risk?)
Shennanigans. No one who is as economically literate as I know for a fact you to be can possibly be puzzled by such a simplistic, almost trivial dilemma. You might equally well ask what's the point of working if you live in a country with social security where you run no risk of starving.
The answer is equally obvious. You're implicitly employing the fallacy of the excluded middle, and you're also explicitly counter-factually asserting that hi-sec is a zero risk environment, when it clearly and measurably isn't. When you use a false axiom to power a fallacy then is it any wonder that you derive a trivially wrong result?
I'd certainly agree that hi-sec is a lower risk environment than the other areas, but for someone who uses "all those posts in General Discussion" as a justification, you seem to be blind to the very many posts in GD complaining about the presence of any risk at all in hi-sec.
But risk there is and if I can possibly help it, risk there will always be.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
224
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 14:56:00 -
[419] - Quote
Why would highsec people keep coming back to a thread about "why do nullsec people keep asking CCP to nerf our part of the game? Why do the nullsec people even care about what happens in highsec?"
EvE is more than one game, smashed together into a common space. Were it not so, then a complete understanding of highsec mechanics would be sufficient to deal with all other parts of space, and there wouldn't be issues with people who don't play in nullsec not understanding the current state of nullsec mechanics.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
720
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 15:11:00 -
[420] - Quote
A little on track here:
This is the only part of the OP that really worth discussing:
Quote:At most, the profits of activities in highsec affect market prices, which can affect nullsec players. If anything, though, nullsec players should see this as a boon, if it keeps material, module, and ship prices down. Although even then, from what I understand, larger nullsec corps and alliances manufacture many of their own materials anyway.
This is incorrect.
You and I both have a factory.
On your side of the street it's legal to high illegal immegrants and pay them $1.50 an hour.
On my side of the street I am required by a law, that is impossible to circumvent, to pay my employees $7.50 an hour.
We both build using the exact same materials.
On my side of the street I have access to materials that are used very little in the thing we build, and I have little access to materials that are used abundantly in the thing we build.
You have very little access to the least used material, but the most used is also the most abundant on your side of the street.
You're also provided with an automated work force to go out and aquire, with greater efficiency, the materials we both need. Whereas on my side of the street I am required to you subpar equipment to aquire materials.
To top it off, your side of the street has many more factories at your disposal and God himself policing your streets.
We both build the exact same thing.
However, on your side of the street it's cheaper, faster, and easier to move than it is on my.
Also,
I effectively work for the corporation that owns the factory where I work.
You do not; yet you can get better prices than my employer is allowed to offer me.
If I'm buying minerals in an entire region of null sec, other people are not. The exact same thing is obviously true about high sec, except that it's possible for you to move to the region next door. Even then, the abundance of materials is so great that a single region can support multiple buyers in high sec; that isn't the case in null.
High sec demand is exceeded. Null sec isn't capable of meeting the demand for the most abundantly used materials in it's own space, and it's not as simple as "no one's doing it in null."
As long as it is more lucrative to mine and build in high sec few people will be willing to live in null and do those things. If your goal is to make the most amount of isk you can in the time you have then high sec will always be the most appealing place to play.
It is not propaganda when people say that you can make far, far more isk as a high sec industrialist than you can as a null one. The things that generate lots and lots of isk in null sec are not things that the majority of people can take advantage of. Things like moon mining and capital ship production are not things that individuals in null sec do to make themselves isk. They're intended to benefit the corporation directly.
We should not be penalized for doing something in null sec that you can also do in high sec, and we effectively are.
The mechanics that allow you to do things cheaper and more efficiently in high sec have a negative impact on null sec.
Not all of us that play EVE are "pvpers", but we enjoy the risk of flying around in null sec.
Some of us would appreciate our participating in the wider game to be rewarded instead of penalized. Some of us actually consider it an impalance when people who put forth very little effort, and assume very little risk, to be reward more than those of us who do put in effort and assume greater risk.
In otherwords, if you play the game set on easy you should get a smaller reward than those of us who play with the game set to hard.
(i don't think it would be possible to balance out null sec industry without some kind of nerf to high sec industry, and high sec isk generation through mission running wouldn't be such a big deal if we actually had missions we could run in the space we lived in. The things responcible for filling a high sec system are not present in the very vast majority of the systems in null sec.)
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