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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.12.11 17:17:00 -
[121] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: Insults from the null side, as far as I'm concerned, tend to come about from trying to make a point and encountering the situation Jenn points out here, and extreme stupidity and ignorance. .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_attribution_error
please, tell us more about the randian supermen in null |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
574
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:26:00 -
[122] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Am I the only one that sees null sec guys trying to give rational and thoughfull answers, only to met with mostly insult? Maybe not so much insult as deflection. Just like the guy I'm in the "effort" discussion with, you see him quote my posts out of context rather than actually talk about the actual issues. I think that in GD we see people's personalities play out. The type of person who enjoys the whole game (the so called null bear or whatever) is used to thinking about issues and problems critically and posts that way (because like real life, low/null/WHs PUNISH stupidity where as high sec/government protection perpetuates bad/reckless behaviors). The players who practice the most "avoidance of discomfort" (the high sec dweller who avoids the nastier parts of EVE) practices the most "avoidance of discussion" as well. We're all playing to type in a way. drone interfacing V done in 4 days, go eff yourself.
Case in point, no discussion, just insult. So, why weren't you smart enough (as I was) to do that (or make friends with someone who had) BEFORE going to null sec?
You simply seem unable to understand that a lot of your negative experiances with and perception of null sec were simply you not understanding the mistakes you were making. it's common among the "I once left high sec" crowd, to blame the game rather than look at personal failings.
I died my 1st time in low sec too (lost a rifter to a Brutix, pilot was nice enough to give me some isk for it), I reviewed MY mistakes 1st, i didn't go on have a life long hatred of both low sec and Brutixes (Brutii?)
Quote: Don't go thinking ALL people who live in highsec are there because they hate risk.
\
point to the post where I EVER said "ALL people who live in high sec". I have not observed all people who live in high sec. For purposes of this thread I'm talking about self identified high sec living GD forum posters, most of whom (according to their posts asking silly questions) couldn't find their backsides with both hands a flash light, and google maps. CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
674
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: They tend to not care because it's "their playstyle" they're only interested in, as apposed to actually considering the game as a whole,... Not disagreeing with the principle, but what is the point or purpose of "the game as a whole"? If it's vital to consider, we should at least agree on what it is. High sec economics aren't explicit to high sec.
As a null player I, and most others, are bound to high sec through NEED. We HAVE TO be a part of high sec in some way; typically through economics, the importing of goods to function in null sec.
As a high sec player, you don't need to go to null. You do not need to import from null, we export to you.
Minerals mined in high sec influence the price of minerals mined in low and null. This was clearly indicated in the dev blog in regards to the inferno changes to mining barges and exhumers that saw a drastic increase in the amount of mining in high sec and drop in high end minerals. It doesnt' really mean much to say that a high end ore is in low abundance in high sec when you can mine asteroids for hours on end with no interuption in high sec. The more it's mined in high sec, the more minerals that hit the market and the less those minerals -which are the primary source of miner income in null- are worth to mine here.
The safer it is in high sec, the less you lose, the less you replace, the less value items carry, which trickles back to null.
There is a large number of high sec dwellers that seem to think that low and null is the only place that ships need to blow up for EVE's economy to work. That's wrong.
Ships need to blow up in high sec as much as they need to blow up in any other area of the game. Miners especially, as they're one of the biggest impactors of the new eden economy, high sec miners to be specific.
A lot don't want their ships blown up in high sec, because they shouldn't be forced to play how they don't want -as false a statement as you can make about blowing up ships in EVE, sinse demanding people not blow you up is the opposite of how it should work- and the truth is it's good to lose ships. Whether it be high sec, low sec, null, or Wh space, ships blowing up is good for EVE.
Some high sec players need to learn that it's ok to lose stuff, it's what drives the game, and when you're not getting blown up in high sec you actually have a negative contribution to the economy as a whole. If you're not spending ISK to replace ships, and only run missions, ever increasing your wallet amount, you have a negative impact on EVERYONE in EVE. |
Shylari Avada
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:33:00 -
[124] - Quote
I don't dislike people based on where they choose to play EVE or even enjoy their time spent in EVE.
I do however take grievous offense to those that point the 'elitist' finger at people who are trying to find out what they enjoy in EVE and can't because 'they are not good enough', 'don't have enough skill points', 'have bad K:D ratio:, etc.. Enjoy the game you play, enjoy the time you spend playing a game you enjoy.
However, just because you enjoy running missions, mining, exploration, worm holes, market manipulation, space trucking, hauling, reacting, hole patrolling, gate camping, station camping, or what have you- it doesn't diminish mine or someone else's joy in blowing up your internet space pixels, ganking your freighter, tearing down your POS, under-cutting your market-f***ery at a loss just to get under your skin, placing ridiculous bounties, engaging in year long holy wars over bad posting, and generally being the bane of someone else's existence.
Just as you have your fun, others have theirs; neither party can rightfully criticize the other. You know, unless of course you don't have a SA account and/or are a bad poster; then your mere existence is intolerable |
RomeStar
Astra Research
59
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:34:00 -
[125] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:And Yes, we will continue to point out to CCP and all that the risk/reward balances of the game are off, and that being able to sit in the most protected space and (as an individual shotin red Xs) still make as much isk as you could in the most dangerous space is wrong.
You Mad Bro? Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
674
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:36:00 -
[126] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: Insults from the null side, as far as I'm concerned, tend to come about from trying to make a point and encountering the situation Jenn points out here, and extreme stupidity and ignorance. .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_attribution_errorplease, tell us more about the randian supermen in null Congrats guy,
If it wasn't clear enough, I was talking about a single person, MYSELF. You're lovely little wikipedia link isn't quite applicable.
However you did reinforce my point about switching to the smart ass me as a means of moving beyond the wall of ignorance when I encouter it.
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Imports Plus
Brothel of Slating Intellectual Lusts
139
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:36:00 -
[127] - Quote
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:(TL;DR) In short: please explain to me how the actions of those in highsec negatively affects nullsec players, since the two are largely separate worlds, with the exception of markets and allocation of dev time? If the actions of highsec players don't in fact affect nullsec, then please explain why many nullsec players feels such strong emotions towards highsec players?
Probably because I have to buy all my goods there. See my name |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
574
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:37:00 -
[128] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:And Yes, we will continue to point out to CCP and all that the risk/reward balances of the game are off, and that being able to sit in the most protected space and (as an individual shotin red Xs) still make as much isk as you could in the most dangerous space is wrong.
You Mad Bro?
Absolutely PISSED!
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Shylari Avada
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:38:00 -
[129] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:You Mad Bro?
Unfunny meme, is rather unfunny.
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
674
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:41:00 -
[130] - Quote
I personally prefer reward vs effort.
Risk is inherent in EVE, effort is not.
If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.
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Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.12.11 17:45:00 -
[131] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:And Yes, we will continue to point out to CCP and all that the risk/reward balances of the game are off, and that being able to sit in the most protected space and (as an individual shotin red Xs) still make as much isk as you could in the most dangerous space is wrong.
You Mad Bro?
not mad enough to unsub CCP is aptly named |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:47:00 -
[132] - Quote
I'd be careful associating the loudest forum voices for a representation of true public opinion.
I reside in null sec primarily and w-space intermittently and I have little to no interest or care what happens in Empire space. The place gives me the creeps, so I try to stay out of it. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
574
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:50:00 -
[133] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I personally prefer reward vs effort.
Risk is inherent in EVE, effort is not.
If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.
That's a big big problem.
In null with my Machariel I have to watch local and intel channels like a hawk, and intel channels don't help you when a wormhole pops up in your system lol. This in addition to managing the dps coming from the rats, shooting the right ships so as to not get a new spawn too quickly and all that. I have either haul in ammo or manufacture it myself.
In high sec doing incursions with the same mach I don't even have to have local up (i can't even be in the incursion fleet if I'm war-decced, so no need to watch local), I don't even really have to pay that much attention, just turn my alerts up so I know when I start taking damage so I can broadcast and shoot whatever the FC has tagged. All the effort is on the FC and logi pilots, not me. and I i need ammo it's usually already seeded in system by merchants who follow the incursions or a trade hub is close by.
And both activities for almost the exact same isk too only difference is the incursion give me LP too. Only downside to incursions right now is all the people doing them because their missions are less soloable now lol, so sometimes there is a wait.
Even though i love high sec incursions and benefit from it, I have to admit that's imbalanced as all hell.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
RomeStar
Astra Research
59
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:53:00 -
[134] - Quote
Null sec is jealous because high sec is where the majority of EVEs population lives. Its simple goto any small farm town and talk to the citizens there. Some will say they never want to leave this small town but a larger pct will tell you they cant wait to get out of this one horse town and actually mingle with a more diverse population after all that is where the income is at in the big city.
What it comes down to is Null sec has become a ghost town. Have you been to null sec lately I run mods out there on a conastant basis inorder to generate income but lately my margins are not what they use to be so I have had to lower my prices and risk running stuff without a scout.
If they truely want to fix null sec they need to insert some low and high sec systems into it. The same goes for high sec replace some of the high sec systems with null systems and mix the playing field up alittle and then and just then will eden thrive. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Borascus
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
138
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:54:00 -
[135] - Quote
a. Lick the window b. Tap the fish tank c. Look for recruits d. Escape briefly for fresh air.
3 of them are negative.....
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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
190
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:01:00 -
[136] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:
Also low end materials, its hard(ish) to get them in null sec so they're normally shipped in from hi-sec
Which is a bold faced lie. There are all the minerals you could ever need in null sec. You people out there are just too risk adverse to mine them. Then you come to highsec and blow up all the miners, therefore raising the the costs of doing business in highsec and then ***** about how it is more profitable to mine in highsec BECAUSE YOU MADE IT THAT WAY. People that live in null sec are just little children that want their cake and to eat it too.
SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
190
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:07:00 -
[137] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.
Because it takes so much effort to bounce from belt to belt killing rats for 15-20 mil a tick. I bet you can make so much more in highsec doing the same thing too right.
SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
674
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:09:00 -
[138] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
That's a big big problem.
In null with my Machariel I have to watch local and intel channels like a hawk, and intel channels don't help you when a wormhole pops up in your system lol. This in addition to managing the dps coming from the rats, shooting the right ships so as to not get a new spawn too quickly and all that. I have either haul in ammo or manufacture it myself.
In high sec doing incursions with the same mach I don't even have to have local up (i can't even be in the incursion fleet if I'm war-decced, so no need to watch local), I don't even really have to pay that much attention, just turn my alerts up so I know when I start taking damage so I can broadcast and shoot whatever the FC has tagged. All the effort is on the FC and logi pilots, not me. and I i need ammo it's usually already seeded in system by merchants who follow the incursions or a trade hub is close by.
And both activities for almost the exact same isk too only difference is the incursion give me LP too. Only downside to incursions right now is all the people doing them because their missions are less soloable now lol, so sometimes there is a wait.
Even though i love high sec incursions and benefit from it, I have to admit that's imbalanced as all hell.
To me, that sounds like a whole lot of effort for no added gain.
And to me that says more than there being added "risk". The risk part is rather intangible, and not easily quantifiable. Mining in a fleet in null is safer than mining solo in high sec, or should be, but there sure is a lot more effort involved in mining in null than there is in high sec were you can do it AFK for weeks on end and not even be worried about your ship getting blown up.
Effort is very easy to quantify, and we all know that high sec takes considerably less of it.
Yup, it's imbalanced as all hell. People in high sec make considerably more ISK than the effort put forth warrants.
Which begs the question, why the **** wouldn't we care about it when we live in null. it's like paying someone disproportionatly more money to run a cash register than to be a fligh controller, or a brain surgeon. That's just stupid. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
674
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:10:00 -
[139] - Quote
Schalac wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:
Also low end materials, its hard(ish) to get them in null sec so they're normally shipped in from hi-sec
Which is a bold faced lie. There are all the minerals you could ever need in null sec. You people out there are just too risk adverse to mine them. Then you come to highsec and blow up all the miners, therefore raising the the costs of doing business in highsec and then ***** about how it is more profitable to mine in highsec BECAUSE YOU MADE IT THAT WAY. People that live in null sec are just little children that want their cake and to eat it too. Which is a bold faced lie, because it's simply easier to import the low ends and focus mining on the high ends when you don't have the manpower to do both.
Dont' call someone else a liar when you can't tell the truth yourself. That just makes you a liar and a hypocrit. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
575
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:11:00 -
[140] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:
If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.
Because it takes so much effort to bounce from belt to belt killing rats for 15-20 mil a tick. I bet you can make so much more in highsec doing the same thing too right.
I LOVE replies like this, because you can tell the person posting hasn't been to null since at least 2008.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
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HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
68
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Posted - 2012.12.11 18:13:00 -
[141] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote: This is a prime example of a player who is butt hurt because the game is not getting played the way they want. Players like this want to be able to take their billion skill point pilot and come to hi-sec and impose their will on you and your 10 million skill point pilot and they want you to not be able to do nothing but cry about it. They resent the fact that they canGÇÖt do this in hi-sec free of penalty.
They have ruined their own space null/low with their own crappy tactics of gate camping and blobbing and fear of engaging in pvp because of the hot/cold drop of the incoming fleet. They can no longer impose their will on other players in low/null so now they have sought the last bastion of refuge in EveGǪ.Hi-sec.
The safer Hi-sec becomes the less ability they have to impose their dominance of hi-sec players so they continue to loath and demonize what they refer to as carebares. The more control you have the less they have over you.
So they come to the forums and fight their fight not caring if they ruin the game for others because they have already ran the full course of the game. They are on their last chance to impose their schoolyard bully tactics on the only one they can, the only ones that donGÇÖt have the ability to fight back or have the skill points or ships to fight backGǪ.the carebare the scourge of Eve the ruination of the game the ones that must be destroyed.
This is them, this is their Eve
So much fail. Why people need to hide behind such easily disporvable BS is amazing to me still. Ther eis nothing wrong with null, I play there (and in high) every night. But people like you need to believe that the only reason we screw around with high sec is because "we ruin our null sec". it's not true, people screw with high sec because you cry so much, and the people griefing you like tears. End of story. No one is trying to control what you do, this is just paranoia. most people don't care what you do, but you cling to that idea because it gives you some kind of sense of self importance. It's simply not true. The mangle the firelfy quote, we ar enot the bad guys, you are not the plucky Hi-Sec hero fighting for freedom against bullies, and nothing is what it seems. And that is not incense....*EXPLOSION*
I live in null as well, in the sea of blue. There is nothing to disprove. It is what it is. People that grief in hi-sec dont do it for profit, they try to make it less of a cost when they can. Some gank freighters that can yield profit. The truth is most null players that have been in null for a while have more money than they can spend. Some people are still in null trying to make a living not everyone is rich but to many have hundreds of trillions of isk. For these people itGÇÖs not about profit it about CONTROL. Control of the market or control of other players thatGÇÖs what they seek and thatGÇÖs why they come here and argue and fight and complain. Every time they make hi-sec safer they lose the ability to CONTROL.
They pretend to call it pvp or sandbox or various other things. In reality itGÇÖs the ability to impose control over the carebare they donGÇÖt want to lose. Just like the poster above and other like him/her.
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Bump Truck
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.12.11 18:41:00 -
[142] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Am I the only one that sees null sec guys trying to give rational and thoughfull answers, only to met with mostly insult?
Agreed. Looks that way to me.
I think all of OP's questions were answered 10x over. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:47:00 -
[143] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
I live in null as well, in the sea of blue. There is nothing to disprove. It is what it is. People that grief in hi-sec dont do it for profit, they try to make it less of a cost when they can. Some gank freighters that can yield profit. The truth is most null players that have been in null for a while have more money than they can spend. Some people are still in null trying to make a living not everyone is rich but to many have hundreds of trillions of isk. For these people itGÇÖs not about profit it about CONTROL. Control of the market or control of other players thatGÇÖs what they seek and thatGÇÖs why they come here and argue and fight and complain. Every time they make hi-sec safer they lose the ability to CONTROL.
They pretend to call it pvp or sandbox or various other things. In reality itGÇÖs the ability to impose control over the carebare they donGÇÖt want to lose. Just like the poster above and other like him/her.
Know what the biggest piece of bullshit here is?
You continually implying that hi sec gankers are Null sec players. As if getting ganked in high sec means you didn't get ganked by someone else who lives in high sec, or that they didn't come from low, or WH space.
PS: notice the guy used the word "greif" to say gank? Says a lot about the guys mentality.
There's only one way to grief in EVE, shoot a rookie. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
1092
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:49:00 -
[144] - Quote
The important aspect is mentioned in your post. To **** people off. In game it isnt really an issue as people are busily playing their game but forum warrioring is an important part of eve, and the most important part of that is to try and upset lots of people apparently.
One very important thing to realise is this: Almost every single player in nullsec also has alts that never leave hisec, so there really arnt many pure nullsec players anyway. See all those afk miners? A fair percentage of tehm are alts of nullsec people. Same with mission runners, haulers, marketeers, manufacturers... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2012.12.11 19:05:00 -
[145] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:The important aspect is mentioned in your post. To **** people off. In game it isnt really an issue as people are busily playing their game but forum warrioring is an important part of eve, and the most important part of that is to try and upset lots of people apparently.
One very important thing to realise is this: Almost every single player in nullsec also has alts that never leave hisec, so there really arnt many pure nullsec players anyway. See all those afk miners? A fair percentage of tehm are alts of nullsec people. Same with mission runners, haulers, marketeers, manufacturers...
Why would we have a Hi Sec alt?
For the times you need isk, but your home systems are camped. For the times you want to play the game, but in a more casual fashion and don't want to be bothered with camping the intel channels. For the times RL makes it so Null Sec gameplay is too much an effort, but you still want to play the game in some manner. To try a different aspect of the game when the gameplay you currently are doing becomes stale. To maintain your personal logistics chain. ...and many other numerous reasons.
I haven't seen any stats, but it would be interesting to see how many active Hi Sec Characters are alts of "Other Sec" mains. I would wager more than would admit it, and maybe even a significant majority are.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1888
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 19:32:00 -
[146] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
I live in null as well, in the sea of blue. There is nothing to disprove. It is what it is. People that grief in hi-sec dont do it for profit, they try to make it less of a cost when they can. Some gank freighters that can yield profit. The truth is most null players that have been in null for a while have more money than they can spend. Some people are still in null trying to make a living not everyone is rich but to many have hundreds of trillions of isk. For these people itGÇÖs not about profit it about CONTROL. Control of the market or control of other players thatGÇÖs what they seek and thatGÇÖs why they come here and argue and fight and complain. Every time they make hi-sec safer they lose the ability to CONTROL.
They pretend to call it pvp or sandbox or various other things. In reality itGÇÖs the ability to impose control over the carebare they donGÇÖt want to lose. Just like the poster above and other like him/her.
Know what the biggest piece of bullshit here is? You continually implying that hi sec gankers are Null sec players. As if getting ganked in high sec means you didn't get ganked by someone else who lives in high sec, or that they didn't come from low, or WH space. PS: notice the guy used the word "greif" to say gank? Says a lot about the guys mentality. There's only one way to grief in EVE, shoot a rookie. Heh, you're a "griefer" you need to be banned.
Evil goons~~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
678
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 19:35:00 -
[147] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Heh, you're a "griefer" you need to be banned.
Evil goons~~
They are something awful aren't they?
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Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
217
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 20:07:00 -
[148] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Schalac wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:
If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.
Because it takes so much effort to bounce from belt to belt killing rats for 15-20 mil a tick. I bet you can make so much more in highsec doing the same thing too right. I LOVE replies like this, because you can tell the person posting hasn't been to null since at least 2008. Right, now you can bounce from anomaly to anomaly for better isk than that. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
230
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 20:07:00 -
[149] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:There's only one way to grief in EVE, shoot a rookie.
Well that, like most absolutes, isn't entirely true is it?
Heck, you don't even have to be in game...
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
51
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:10:00 -
[150] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Am I the only one that sees null sec guys trying to give rational and thoughfull answers, only to met with mostly insult? at this point, both sides are spewing bullshit and ignoring anthing that doesn't agree with them. |
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