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Jiggawatt Gredax
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Posted - 2005.05.24 14:26:00 -
[1]
Anyone have an idea of the skills required for the upcoming dreads? I'm mainly wondering if i should go for a HAC or train up to BS lvl 5 if necessary.
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Meehan
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Posted - 2005.05.24 14:36:00 -
[2]
I wouldn't worry about it. Train what you feel like until they are released, then start training for them. Not only will you know what to train better (maybe they will require skills noone expected), but when you are done training there will already by lots of experiences from them and their use available from other players - saving you from making the baby mistakes. That and the fact that it gives time for their prices to settle...
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.05.24 14:54:00 -
[3]
What Meehan said.
Other than that, they're T1 ships so shouldn't need more than BS4 / Spaceship Command 5. Also, bear in mind they utilise jump drives, so will likely need Warp Drive Ops 5 / Jump Drive Ops 1.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
SirSpectre
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Posted - 2005.05.24 16:01:00 -
[4]
Looking at the new data i saw frieghters required "Advanced Spaceship command" Im guessing dreads will need this as well maybe to level 3 or 4, and Titans to 5. Im also predicting BS 4 and not 5. Of Course jumpdrive operation. Im hoping like, electronics, engineering, mechanic, evasive manuevering, and maybe a starship engineering all to 5. It had better be very skill intensive and super expensive so only a few can have one.
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.05.24 16:39:00 -
[5]
Titans to 5? How long have you needed Transport ships to 5 to fly a BS, then? Titans are both larger than, and with a completely different purpose, to dreads.
---:::---
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.05.24 17:28:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: El Yatta
Titans to 5? How long have you needed Transport ships to 5 to fly a BS, then? Titans are both larger than, and with a completely different purpose, to dreads.
Can't read minds - but think he was referring to Titans needing advanced starship engineering to 5... not Dreadnaughts needing Titans to 5. 
That the way Weirda read it anyway. 
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Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
SirSpectre
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Posted - 2005.05.24 17:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Weirda
Originally by: El Yatta
Titans to 5? How long have you needed Transport ships to 5 to fly a BS, then? Titans are both larger than, and with a completely different purpose, to dreads.
Can't read minds - but think he was referring to Titans needing advanced starship engineering to 5... not Dreadnaughts needing Titans to 5.
That the way Weirda read it anyway.
Exactamundo.
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ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:06:00 -
[8]
Im pretty sure i can fly one. Frig, cruiser, bs, spaceship comand, all gunneries, advanced gunners almost there, most navigations, all gang skills, most engineering, are all at 5 and jump drives is training up to 4 now. Ive been going off hearsay and rumors, but i think i have most of my bases covered...i cant wait for them to be released
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:28:00 -
[9]
It will be BS 3 if anything.
Destroyers need Frig 3
Battlecruisers need Cruiser 3
Do it stands to reason Dreadnaughts would need BS 3
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:33:00 -
[10]
Lots of skills to use Dreads = good
Lots of ISK to buy Dreads = bad
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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SirSpectre
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
It will be BS 3 if anything.
Destroyers need Frig 3
Battlecruisers need Cruiser 3
Do it stands to reason Dreadnaughts would need BS 3
Cruisers require frig 4
Battleships require cruiser 4
I consider Dessies and BC "sub-classes"
Dessies being sub-class to cruisers
BC being sub-class to BS
Dreads are a new class totally. Im 100% sure BS 3 is not a requirement, It will most definatly be higher.
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SirSpectre
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Lots of skills to use Dreads = good
Lots of ISK to buy Dreads = bad
Elve youre my hero.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:35:00 -
[13]
Keep in mind Dreads will have a lot of the BS Syndrome. People with the bare minimum skills to fly it assuming they have to be uber and win all the time. So to fully use a Dread, you will likely need to be more than able to fully use a BS.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: SirSpectre
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
It will be BS 3 if anything.
Destroyers need Frig 3
Battlecruisers need Cruiser 3
Do it stands to reason Dreadnaughts would need BS 3
Cruisers require frig 4
Battleships require cruiser 4
I consider Dessies and BC "sub-classes"
Dessies being sub-class to cruisers
BC being sub-class to BS
Dreads are a new class totally. Im 100% sure BS 3 is not a requirement, It will most definatly be higher.
Could be, but what would the subclass to the Dreads be? Carriers?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 24/05/2005 18:54:49
My wishlist for skills required to use a Dreadnaught: (I never know if its naught or nought so i just say Dread usually)
<Insert Race> Battleship 5
Jumpdrive Operation 3
Warp Drive Operation 5
Shield Operation 5
Shield Management 5
Energy Management 5
Energy thingiedingiedong 5
Then, for the XL guns:
<Insert Race> Large Closerange Turret Spec 5
<Insert Race> Large Shortrange Turret Spec 5
Ofcourse, all the subskills and prereqs for those skills.
I would add HAC 5 as i think it belongs on that list, but i also know that for alot of BS pilots HACs are no more then toys for the spoiled veteran. HACs are essentially not alot like Dreads, in my opinion.
Then ofcourse a rank 10 skill 'Dreadnaughts'. I'd give my right arm for two tiers aswell, but it ain't happening ofcourse.
EDIT:
As for cost.
Roughly 100-150million ISK for the skill, overpriced in true CCP style. Then 750-1250 million ISK for the Dread.
Besides that, i'd add an odd skill or three as required to level 5 that most BS pilots do not have. Leadership 5 maybe, along with all the other gangskills at 5.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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SirSpectre
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Posted - 2005.05.24 18:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: SirSpectre
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
It will be BS 3 if anything.
Destroyers need Frig 3
Battlecruisers need Cruiser 3
Do it stands to reason Dreadnaughts would need BS 3
Cruisers require frig 4
Battleships require cruiser 4
I consider Dessies and BC "sub-classes"
Dessies being sub-class to cruisers
BC being sub-class to BS
Dreads are a new class totally. Im 100% sure BS 3 is not a requirement, It will most definatly be higher.
Could be, but what would the subclass to the Dreads be? Carriers?
There isnt one yet. But Carriers, I suppose, depending on offical use, might be considered as a sub-class.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 24/05/2005 18:54:49
My wishlist for skills required to use a Dreadnaught: (I never know if its naught or nought so i just say Dread usually)
<Insert Race> Battleship 5
Jumpdrive Operation 3
Warp Drive Operation 5
Shield Operation 5
Shield Management 5
Energy Management 5
Energy thingiedingiedong 5
Then, for the XL guns:
<Insert Race> Large Closerange Turret Spec 5
<Insert Race> Large Shortrange Turret Spec 5
Ofcourse, all the subskills and prereqs for those skills.
I would add HAC 5 as i think it belongs on that list, but i also know that for alot of BS pilots HACs are no more then toys for the spoiled veteran. HACs are essentially not alot like Dreads, in my opinion.
Then ofcourse a rank 10 skill 'Dreadnaughts'. I'd give my right arm for two tiers aswell, but it ain't happening ofcourse.
EDIT:
As for cost.
Roughly 100-150million ISK for the skill, overpriced in true CCP style. Then 750-1250 million ISK for the Dread.
Besides that, i'd add an odd skill or three as required to level 5 that most BS pilots do not have. Leadership 5 maybe, along with all the other gangskills at 5.
Thank god you're not on the Dev's balancing team.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:08:00 -
[18]
Thanks for your usefull reply.
So what do you want? Let me guess:
BS 3
Cruiser 4
Frig 4
Then for XL guns:
L Turret 4
gunnery 5
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:15:00 -
[19]
I would prefer skills for dreads and XL guns be high:
As in...
BS5
Gunn5\Large Artillery(just for example) 5
motion\tracking\sharp\etc...all at 5
These XL guns and ships need to be truly in the hands of highly skilled premier pilots, not indy alts with 30 mil SP who just happened to train lvl 3 of this or that.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Sadist on 24/05/2005 19:19:24
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Thanks for your usefull reply.
So what do you want? Let me guess:
BS 3
Cruiser 4
Frig 4
Then for XL guns:
L Turret 4
gunnery 5
A healthy medium.
BS 4
Ship command 5
Advanced ship command 4
Jump drive operation 1
And the same thing you wrote for XL guns.
Btw dreads should be a rank 12 skill.
About isk cost - i think you got it pretty right.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:20:00 -
[21]
BS 4.
You're making the exact same mistake as CCP did when introducing Battleships - making them too easy. Do you really want to see everyone and his mummy fly a Dreadnaught? Because with skillreqs like that, everyone who can afford one will get one.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:25:00 -
[22]
I think if you go BS5 versus BS4 you'll cull out alot of wannabe casual "fighter" character types. That's what I was thinking of when I mentioned BS5 
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DarkMatters
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:26:00 -
[23]
Edited by: DarkMatters on 24/05/2005 19:27:30
Edited by: DarkMatters on 24/05/2005 19:26:53
seam alot of people are sugesting skills which fit into what they have trained, in the hopes that the majority will not be able to fly them but they will be one of the lucky ones. i mean why would they need sheild skills?
its a tech 1 ship!
so Battleship 4, spaceship command 5, whatever dread skill = fly ship
jump drive a few more skills, already released cant be arsed to write them down, 3 lvl skills trained to 5 needed i think.
siege mode a few more skills trained to 5 centering around gunnery.
and yes i have BS lvl 5....
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:31:00 -
[24]
Actually, i don't have half the skills on that list. I specialise in frigates and cruisers.
I just want to avoid some things.
1) Look at me, i've billions of ISK but only BS 3, ill fly me that Dread!
Versus: Look at me, i may not have alot of ISK, but i've spend my entire EVE life trying to specialise in this type of ship!
2) Ah hey look guys, it's a Dread. XL Mega Beam IIs i see, the XL Tachyon II really own those things though, see our killboards for proof.
Versus: OMG OMG OMG guys its a Dread! Gather everyone in the constellation so we can go drool to our heart contents!
Get my point?
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Actually, i don't have half the skills on that list. I specialise in frigates and cruisers.
I just want to avoid some things.
1) Look at me, i've billions of ISK but only BS 3, ill fly me that Dread!
Versus: Look at me, i may not have alot of ISK, but i've spend my entire EVE life trying to specialise in this type of ship!
2) Ah hey look guys, it's a Dread. XL Mega Beam IIs i see, the XL Tachyon II really own those things though, see our killboards for proof.
Versus: OMG OMG OMG guys its a Dread! Gather everyone in the constellation so we can go drool to our heart contents!
Get my point?
/agrees with /elve
--
Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.05.24 19:49:00 -
[26]
Yeah, i think the game would suffer if the main factor against getting a dread is based on money not skills. Dreads being flown shouldn't be a common occurance. "But not everyone has that sort of money". Err, looked at the trading forums/in-game chat? Lots of people could quite easily get that amount of cash. There should be some serious amount of specialisation involved in flying one. BS 4 imho NOT specialisation.
| Don't be a bad loser | |
Danii
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Posted - 2005.05.24 20:01:00 -
[27]
Whatever the skill reqs are, I think they should include at least 50 days of training new skills, to be able to fly the things.
Price? Well, no matter what the build cost, these things are going to be seriously expensive...
[AUCTION] Caldari dreadnaught
Starting bid: 2 bil
Minimum bid increment: 500 mil
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Maxine Stirner
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Posted - 2005.05.24 20:18:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Maxine Stirner on 24/05/2005 20:17:47
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Lots of skills to use Dreads = good
Lots of ISK to buy Dreads = bad
Pish posh. That should read:
Lots of skill to buy Dreads = good
Lots of ISK to use Dreads = good
And they shouldn't be uber cept against BS and starbases.
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Grainsalt
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Posted - 2005.05.24 20:54:00 -
[29]
There are some semi-clues to this in the excel sheets that were released.. But contain some skills such as advanced starship navigation or somesuch. Might be worth you downloading them and taking a look...
Oh and ignore the "Bad Motherf**king Caldari Dreadnaught" entry... Although it is funny. 
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Don't ask... really... just don't |
Sadist
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Posted - 2005.05.24 22:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
BS 4.
You're making the exact same mistake as CCP did when introducing Battleships - making them too easy. Do you really want to see everyone and his mummy fly a Dreadnaught? Because with skillreqs like that, everyone who can afford one will get one.
Its a tech 1 ship.
And i want to be able to fly it within a _reasonable_ time period after it comes out, not after half year training just to be able to fly it.
A person can fly a BS with about 1 mil SP , but he's going to be horrible at it.
Same thing must and will go for dreads.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:23:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Meridius on 24/05/2005 23:23:42
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
BS 4.
You're making the exact same mistake as CCP did when introducing Battleships - making them too easy. Do you really want to see everyone and his mummy fly a Dreadnaught? Because with skillreqs like that, everyone who can afford one will get one.
Its a tech 1 ship.
And i want to be able to fly it within a _reasonable_ time period after it comes out, not after half year training just to be able to fly it.
A person can fly a BS with about 1 mil SP , but he's going to be horrible at it.
Same thing must and will go for dreads.
Uhh no.
These are going to be a rare sight both because of skill requirement and cost amongst possibly other factors.
This is how CCP originally wanted battleships, rare and feared.
I'm hoping battleship 5 is required. ISK has been raped by level 4 missions, the only real barrier left is skill.
They should cost around 1 billion imo. 2bil+ would pretty much make it carebear only.
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:33:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Bagdh Dearg on 24/05/2005 23:34:11
Battleship 5 is a must In My Honest Opinion.
I really want these ships to be special,Friggin Awe-inspiring so that when they Appear at a Battle everything goes ******* silent for a few seconds as they watch it enter seige mode and those massive guns track onto some helpless Megathron.
What I dont want is another B-F-R (Planetside people will know precisly what Im talking about but just in case..) SOE implemented a few months back a new type of Vehicle called the BFR(Big Friggin Robot/Battlefield Robotics)
It was hailed as the tide turner,Something that you'd see every so ofthen but when you did you would either Cheer or Yell in despair.Sounds great doesnt it?
What we got was another Kill-***** Extravganza,Every Man and his Jackhammer had one and more were arriving everyday,You couldnt have a good Bridge Battle or Base hack without a sea of Mincing robots spamming doorways and rooftops.Basically Hell on Auraxis.
I left soon after.
The moral of that rant(apologies but it has parallel's with this situation) is that Titans,Dreadnaughts and Carriers need to be flown by the best EVE players who have spent alot of time concentrating on getting these ships.Not someone with a ton of cash to buy on and after a month of learning can fly one(Poorly sure but would he really fly it in battle?)
However I have total faith in CCP that they know what they're doing and are so much more Competant then SOE that we will soon have some of the most impressive,Sought after and Devastatingly powerful ships which will only be availible to those who deserve to fly them.
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:13:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
BS 4.
You're making the exact same mistake as CCP did when introducing Battleships - making them too easy. Do you really want to see everyone and his mummy fly a Dreadnaught? Because with skillreqs like that, everyone who can afford one will get one.
And they will lose it, because they don't know how to use it.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:17:00 -
[34]
Make Destroyer require Frig 5, Cruiser require Destroyer 5, Battlecruiser require Cruiser 5, BSes require BC 5, and Dreads require BS 5.
Then it will make sense to make Dreads need BS 5.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Sergej
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:29:00 -
[35]
What is so bad if Dreads are reachable to spoilt rich carebears? I will never fly dreads, so I couldn't care less. But if a dread is flown by a bad pilot it's just a bil isk liability. and we all love good kilmaills, don't we?:D
Regards, Sergej
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:44:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 25/05/2005 00:47:15
BS 5
Engineering 5 (duh)
Space ship Command 5
Capitol Ships 3 (or whatever you want to call it, 1 for freighters, 3 for dreads, 5 for titans).
Building cost: 500mill each in minerals + npc fee of say 250 mill.
That sorts out the proliferation question for a while.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
And they will lose it, because they don't know how to use it.
Yeah that already happens enough with muppets flying battleships. We don't need to carry on that shame with Dreadnaughts.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:59:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 25/05/2005 00:47:15
BS 5
Engineering 5 (duh)
Space ship Command 5
Capitol Ships 3 (or whatever you want to call it, 1 for freighters, 3 for dreads, 5 for titans).
Building cost: 500mill each in minerals + npc fee of say 250 mill.
That sorts out the proliferation question for a while.
Capital Ship Command...hmm
CSC lvl 1 - BC
CSC lvl 2 - BS
CSC lvl 3 - Carrier
CSC lvl 4 - Dread
CSC lvl 5 - Titan
Training Multiplier could be say...rank 12?
Skill mod could be say Capital ship Agility 3%.
And just for gits and grins, make Charisma the primary, and Memory the secondary.
Btw...why would a freighter need to be on this skill? It's not a capital ship hehe.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.25 01:00:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Meridius on 25/05/2005 01:00:24
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Make Destroyer require Frig 5, Cruiser require Destroyer 5, Battlecruiser require Cruiser 5, BSes require BC 5, and Dreads require BS 5.
Then it will make sense to make Dreads need BS 5.
Dreadnaughts are unique, they are capitol ships. Stop trying to fit them in where they do not belong.
All the ships you mentioned are just that, ships. Dreadnoughts are captial ships, that stands for something.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.25 01:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Meridius
Edited by: Meridius on 25/05/2005 01:00:24
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Make Destroyer require Frig 5, Cruiser require Destroyer 5, Battlecruiser require Cruiser 5, BSes require BC 5, and Dreads require BS 5.
Then it will make sense to make Dreads need BS 5.
Dreadnaughts are unique, they are capitol ships. Stop trying to fit them in where they do not belong.
All the ships you mentioned are just that, ships. Dreadnoughts are captial ships, that stands for something.
Technically BSes are capital ships too.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
kessah
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Posted - 2005.05.25 01:09:00 -
[41]
well i think personally someone with noob skills and lots of cash can by all means fly one and get ganked tbh.
Without the gunnery skills its a show off ship around empire space.
I personally would make sure your bases are covered with t2 large weaponary now.
Navigation a must. Id imagine most of the upgrade skills to 5 wouldnt hurt.
As for the spaceship command prequis its anyones guess. tho it cant hurt for spaceship command 5, and bs lvl 4. I have a feeling the main skills req wont be out until the dread is out.
Tho personally i would love to be a dev and be really evil and tell you all the dread would require science and industry type skills to 5..... wonder how many would actually be so dumb as to train them..  muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah *cough*
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Im Your Huckleberry ;-)
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2005.05.25 01:16:00 -
[42]
It should be bs5 to have the intended effect of not everybody and their mother-in-law flying it, like it turned out with battleships.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Cracken
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Posted - 2005.05.25 02:05:00 -
[43]
plz plz plz no tech 2 spec skills for xl guns thats just retarded add a separate skill which gives 5% pre lvl which allows use of xl guns of that type make it a 5x training time multiplier aka takes a while too train but not retarded amounts of it.
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.05.25 04:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Technically BSes are capital ships too.
No, no they arent. They were originally intended as such but there are 3 factors that have shreded that to nothingness. IMO Cruisers should be the mainstay of a fleet because it SHOULD be more effecient to use masses of them than masses of battleships. The three factors are as follows.
1) Easy obtainability, face it, if you want a BS all you have to do is level 4 agent ***** for like 5 hours and wollah you have enough money for the BS, the equip AND the insurance.
2) Cruisers suck, nuff said.
3) Losing a battleship means nothing nowadays unless you have uber mods on, if you dont(which is often the case) you lose maybe 35mil isk in all, thats NOTHING. Maybe an hour or so of work in some cases.
Those combined have turned the battleship into something you see EVERYDAY, most of us dont want dreads carriers and titans to be the same. Since money really means nothing anymore the main thing to prevent mass flying is skills. Dont give me any of this tier 1 crap, because BFS are in a different league then the ships we have now.
Dreads should require BS lvl 5 at the very least, that alone chops off like 70% of the playing field from having it from the start. For kicks you might want to add another completely new skill to fly dreads thats rank 5 or so.
Having dreads cost "alot" of isk is risky. Alot of isk nowdays is 10bil or so, anything lower is attainable in a stupidly short amount of time. The only barrier left is skills.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.05.25 05:28:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Dreads should require BS lvl 5 at the very least, that alone chops off like 70% of the playing field from having it from the start. For kicks you might want to add another completely new skill to fly dreads thats rank 5 or so.
People, who have BS 5 are a minority. No one's going to listen to their selfish whining about how they are such SP *****s, they actually can fly a dread now.
Yes, and you will get the "Its tech 1" crap, because it is tech 1.
Making something have limited availability and pilotability by telling 70% of the players to go **** off, and wasted 45 days on a Battleship skill, if they want to fly dreadnaughts is absurd.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.25 05:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hyey
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Technically BSes are capital ships too.
No, no they arent. They were originally intended as such but there are 3 factors that have shreded that to nothingness. IMO Cruisers should be the mainstay of a fleet because it SHOULD be more effecient to use masses of them than masses of battleships. The three factors are as follows.
1) Easy obtainability, face it, if you want a BS all you have to do is level 4 agent ***** for like 5 hours and wollah you have enough money for the BS, the equip AND the insurance.
2) Cruisers suck, nuff said.
3) Losing a battleship means nothing nowadays unless you have uber mods on, if you dont(which is often the case) you lose maybe 35mil isk in all, thats NOTHING. Maybe an hour or so of work in some cases.
Those combined have turned the battleship into something you see EVERYDAY, most of us dont want dreads carriers and titans to be the same. Since money really means nothing anymore the main thing to prevent mass flying is skills. Dont give me any of this tier 1 crap, because BFS are in a different league then the ships we have now.
Dreads should require BS lvl 5 at the very least, that alone chops off like 70% of the playing field from having it from the start. For kicks you might want to add another completely new skill to fly dreads thats rank 5 or so.
Having dreads cost "alot" of isk is risky. Alot of isk nowdays is 10bil or so, anything lower is attainable in a stupidly short amount of time. The only barrier left is skills.
So why not be consistant and redesign the existing system? Why tack on this load of skills for a tech 1 ship?
I like my lvl 5 to advance to the next class plan.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.05.25 07:06:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sadist
Making something have limited availability and pilotability by telling 70% of the players to go **** off
Wait a sec, minority? Do you actually mean if they make lvl5 bs a pre-req that there won't be a lot of Dreads out there?
1. CCP doesn't want a lot of Dreads out there
2. Does that 70% need to fly a Dreadnaught? (**** no)
________________________________________________________
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Citizen Angstrom
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Posted - 2005.05.25 07:13:00 -
[48]
This all depends on whether CCP actually want people to be flying Dreads or not. If they are aiming high, and assuming that Corps or even Alliances are going to pack no more than a handful of these things, then they have two ways of reducing their presence.
One is to make it skill-intensive to fly it. BS5, Jump Drive4, 'Dreadnaught Ops'3 (skill 12 say), etcetera.
The second way is to make it very expensive, say 5-10 billion Isk. 'Oh that's not much for OUR Corp' I hear you say. Consider losing a couple a day and re-think...
But my hope is that since a Dread is indeed a T1 ship, with limited uses intended, CCP will want to allow them to be relatively common. By that, I mean 500-1,000 million Isk, and BS4, Jump Drive1, 'Dread Ops'1. The truly rare and all-but-impossible ships to come will be Titans, until then the Dreads and Carriers should be available to buy and fly just like BS.
On a final note about Isk. CCP understand that they have allowed too much into the economy with level 4 agent missions. They are moving aggresively to reduce the amount of money that can be made from them. The missile changes are a prime example of this; don't expect to be able to make ~100 million Isk in an evening any more... if you ever could (lots of 0.0 whiners assume that empire carebears just press a button and see Isk flowing in endlessly... )
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General Murder
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Posted - 2005.05.25 07:14:00 -
[49]
Lower the insurance on dreads (max. 50%) or make them non-insurable.
Problem is solved.
Make the same with BS problem solved.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.05.25 08:01:00 -
[50]
I dont think lvl 5 BS is necessary here. Most here are right. Its an upgrade of the BS, like the BS was for the cruiser. Its Tech 1 and therefore
- Spacecommand lvl 5
- BS lvl 4
- Jump Drive lvl 1
Thats even one more skill than any other Tech 1 ship!
You say everyone will fly it ... cool let them fly it. They will loose lot of money and without enough skillpoints its just a huge something.
Iam pretty sure it will cost around ~300 mil to produce one. Which means platinum insurance will be ~100 mil. Now you will setup it with another 50mil easily and here you ahve your loss.
If loosing 150 mil each gank means nothing for you, than you should loose a few till it means something for you.
Noobs in BS are atm not a threat at all, same will be for noobs in Dreads. Yeah cool big miner probably nothing more nothing less.
I doubt you will be usefull in a dread below 6mil sp. And even then you normaly wont have the money to buy one, except your are sponsored.
Also if XLarge guns will have that problem to hit smaller targets that my large guns have, than Cruiser will almost be infincible and frigates will be invincible.
So Noobs flying alone in Dread = gankfest.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
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Jonsemann
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Posted - 2005.05.25 08:24:00 -
[51]
this is what i think(for caldari one)
Caldari Frigate lvl4
Caldari Cruiser lvl4
Caldari BAttleship lvl4
Caldari Dreadnaught lvl4
---------------------------------------
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
|
Renox
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Posted - 2005.05.25 08:25:00 -
[52]
Personally I think that it would be fitting for the dread to require Battleship at level 5. It is supposed to be the biggest and baddest combat ship ever and as such I see no harm in it being "restricted" to the combat specialised pilots. As it is possible to obtain BS lvl 4 in just a week or two of training that can hardly be called specialization compared to the 30 odd days it takes for bs lvl 5. As it is in the skills you take to level 5 you show where you want to go.
It should be the same with the other capital ships. The freighters should be restricted to the dedicated industrials with indi lvl 5, carriers should have Drone interfacing lvl 5 ect...
IMO it is not a bad thing to be required to specialize when you want to fly the biggest and baddest ship in your "profession"
"
While Celestial Apoc is filled with smack talking, safespot hugging, gate cudling, empire war exploiting |
Alazais
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Posted - 2005.05.25 08:35:00 -
[53]
Well... CCP had to make a choice, either they make it requiring level 4 skills and people will hop into them within a couple of weeks, and soon after that every man and his dog will own one. Or make them really difficult to get into (multiple level 5 skills) in which case 6-8 months down the road you'll still have a lot of people in them.
There is nothing you can do about that, a lot of people will get them eventually, only difference is how long till you get there. Imo they should take flipping ages to be able to fly one, simply because for the 6 months before everyone actually has one, when one appears in a battle it'll turn the tide. My only concern is for the newer players, if a corp with a couple of Dreadnaught pilots declares war on an empire corp of 3-5 month old characters... do they have to train for 8 months just to fight back?
answer = make them stupidly hard to obtain.
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.05.25 09:19:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Alazais
My only concern is for the newer players, if a corp with a couple of Dreadnaught pilots declares war on an empire corp of 3-5 month old characters... do they have to train for 8 months just to fight back?
Well unless that noob corp has multiple POS and are all flying BS's i doubt a dread will be able to hit most of their assets.
From the look of the Amarrian Dreadnought it only has three turret highslots. XL weapons wont hit anything smaller than a BS, and 3 L guns are not that much of a worry even for a team of 2 or 3 month old players.
I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
Nifel
|
Posted - 2005.05.25 09:36:00 -
[55]
While I'm not really against the skills requirements being high I don't see it as anything but delaying the time it takes for everyone and their mother to fly one. There should be other reasons as to why you wouldn't want to fly one and the insta-nerf should fix half of this. No support where you go and you're screwed ^^. It'll also probably cost quite a bit to lose one since the insurance won't cover what the actual price will be (lots of low end minerals that costs ****loads vs base payout value based on base mineral prices).
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." |
Loka
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Posted - 2005.05.25 09:46:00 -
[56]
Hmm you dont really read my post do you?
Owning a Dread is not the same as been capable to fight effective in one.
Tbh i dont care how many ppl would own one, but it would get dust in their hanger. Because they either dont have enough skills to use it effective or dont have the spare isk to replace its loss.
Thats my view on this matter. At the end of the day isk makes a ship uncommon, not the SP.
I have 18mil sp in combat related skills and still iam not flying all day HAC¦s. Why? Not because i dont have enough SP to use one effective enough, but the 120 mil isk loss is something i cant effort every day.
ISK guys ISK not Skillpoints make a ship something special.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.05.25 09:56:00 -
[57]
Can't be bothered to read all this thread but...
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Lots of skills to use Dreads = good
Lots of ISK to buy Dreads = bad
...that's a REAL bad idea. Everyone is always accumulating SP. Eventually, everyone will have the SP to fly Dreads. With ISK, once you spend it it's gone, so that discourages every monkey from flying one.
But high skill requirements are good too, so long as they cost lots.
----------------
Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.05.25 09:56:00 -
[58]
Quote:
From the look of the Amarrian Dreadnought it only has three turret highslots. XL weapons wont hit anything smaller than a BS, and 3 L guns are not that much of a worry even for a team of 2 or 3 month old players.
6. 3 on each side. ;P
----------------
Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.05.25 10:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
6. 3 on each side. ;P
Turrets are always duplicated on opposite sides of a ship. Notice how a 3-turret Rifter gets six actual turrets on its body.
|
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.25 10:17:00 -
[60]
You assume it can target non-ships when in siege mode 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.25 10:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Quote:
From the look of the Amarrian Dreadnought it only has three turret highslots. XL weapons wont hit anything smaller than a BS, and 3 L guns are not that much of a worry even for a team of 2 or 3 month old players.
6. 3 on each side. ;P
6. 2 per sponson
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2005.05.25 10:24:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
BS 4.
You're making the exact same mistake as CCP did when introducing Battleships - making them too easy. Do you really want to see everyone and his mummy fly a Dreadnaught? Because with skillreqs like that, everyone who can afford one will get one.
Its a tech 1 ship.
And i want to be able to fly it within a _reasonable_ time period after it comes out, not after half year training just to be able to fly it.
A person can fly a BS with about 1 mil SP , but he's going to be horrible at it.
Same thing must and will go for dreads.
except this isnt a merry-go-round little johnny...
you arnt supposed to easily get into a dread... and if you do ya ruin the game... despite tourists like you.
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Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.05.25 10:31:00 -
[63]
Consider this : Why would you want to fly a dreadnaught ?
It will be slow and cumbersome, jumpdrives will need fuel and the cost of one will certainly be very high. In combat a dread will need a serious escort, because on its own its dead meat.
On the other hand it will have awesome firepower and be an interesting addition to a fleet. Also, siege mode will be useful in warfare. And of course the "mine is bigger than yours"-syndrome.
Skills arent important really. Who will pay the price in time and isk to have a ship that really only useful in fleet combat or in taking down a POS ?
That said, the Amarr dread looks very cool.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
Takrolimus
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Posted - 2005.05.25 10:31:00 -
[64]
I hate this "I-must-have-the-best-toy" even though I dont PvP and have 3m SPs mentality.
I can train an alt to BS 4 in a matter of weeks. Flying a dread should take MULTIPLE skills to lev 5.
This "Its tech 1" Bull**** is useless: CCP chooses the rules not you, BCs and Dessies were outside of the normal skill reqs (albeit lower), there is no reason Dreads shouldnt be higher.
Furthermore I think Dreads should be ABSOLUTELY USELESS at PvE
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.05.25 10:45:00 -
[65]
Hah, its funny u guys are discussing this. In some dev blog/chat/whatever some time ago they stated that the skill req would look like this:
Spaceship Command 5
BS 4
Jump Drive 1
The capital ship or dreadnought skill would be a very high rank skill meaning training it to lvl 4 would take over 4 weeks. Whoever wants to specialize in them can do it but they will suck in anything else, or viceversa.
It has also been recently stated by the devs that they will be seriously pre-nerfed. The jump drive will require ice materials and it will be a group efford to maintain a capital ship.
As for balance, I'm pretty sure a HAC pack can take care of it, if it doesnt have support. They are slow and slugish, more like a stationary battery than a ship u can cruise around and gank anything you encounter.
With T2 BSs coming out, I dont think many ppl will see the need to fly dreads. They will be mostly alliance warfare for siege operations.
Intercepting since BETA |
fuze
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Posted - 2005.05.25 11:12:00 -
[66]
Dreadnaught aka Flying Trebuchet.
Mind you that you need XL guns on that ship as well. So you would need XL gun skills.
And what about XL tech II gun skills?
Who would be willing to train that long to fit an dready with teh me4n gunz?
___________________________
Favorite bumpersticker of the month:
My head hurts! |
ERGONOMIC
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Posted - 2005.05.25 11:42:00 -
[67]
I hope they have a big cargo, dreads look beatifull and i have 2 or 3 0.4 systems to cross each day!
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.05.25 14:16:00 -
[68]
Originally by: ERGONOMIC
I hope they have a big cargo, dreads look beatifull and i have 2 or 3 0.4 systems to cross each day!
Please fly it solo, and the proceed to run into me and the 2 other pilots that fly muninns with me. You will die.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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MrRookie
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Posted - 2005.05.25 14:28:00 -
[69]
Large guns requires gunnery lvl 5 and I`m sure XL guns will be alot more skill intensive. Not to mention all the other modules you have to fitt will be XL, and will require more skills than the Large stuff. Also I hope they cost a few bill, they wont be that common then.
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy... 
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.05.25 15:09:00 -
[70]
What keeps HACs rare, you ask? Its not the skills, because it just takes some time to train them, so the rush starts slower. Its the build time. You can only produce 1-2 HACs a day, so the prices and availability are under strain. Make all capital ships (DREADS, CARRIERS and TITANS), need a POS shipyard to build, and be assembled from components you build in stations. Build time should be 10 days for a dread/carrier, 21 days-month for a titan. Then, set the skills at a reasonable medium between this "BS 4, SSC 5, Jump Drive 1" nonsense, and the reams of level 5 some want ( I think the above and then 3-5 skills at L5, plus the rank 12 DN skill is reasonable). If people are building them over days, its a serious project to build one, which people are going to discover (and maybe bring their own DN to attack it, before its finished), and they are gonna stay RARE.
---:::---
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.05.25 15:16:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Hyey
Originally by: ERGONOMIC
I hope they have a big cargo, dreads look beatifull and i have 2 or 3 0.4 systems to cross each day!
Please fly it solo, and the proceed to run into me and the 2 other pilots that fly muninns with me. You will die.
No he's gonna log if you do that, and with the hp's of a titan or dread logging means safety, period.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Hyey
|
Posted - 2005.05.25 20:19:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Hyey
Originally by: ERGONOMIC
I hope they have a big cargo, dreads look beatifull and i have 2 or 3 0.4 systems to cross each day!
Please fly it solo, and the proceed to run into me and the 2 other pilots that fly muninns with me. You will die.
No he's gonna log if you do that, and with the hp's of a titan or dread logging means safety, period.
Know what sucks about that comment that blaine made....
its true 
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
|
Nifel
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Posted - 2005.05.25 20:49:00 -
[73]
Already asked about that in the dev blog. No answer :(.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." |
ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2005.05.25 21:53:00 -
[74]
I will say enough of this "its only tech 1" garbage. This may not be the best example, but isnt the tier three mining barge a tech 1 ship? and doesnt it take barge lv 5, and some other skills lv 5?
I guess none of you played beta that are here now, well most anyway. Let me fill you in on some of the things that made beta far more enjoyable than how the game has been the last year and a half. Frigates, the main ship in eve, everyone had one, the rifter being the best, and most expensive to own. Alot of peoples goals were just to find the best fitting for that fun fun ship. Cruisers, at least when cruisers were introduced, were a fearsomesight. It would take a pack of maybe 5 frigs or more to gather the courage to engage one. Then battleships...i saw one battleship in all of beta. I cannot remember exact numbers at the moment but i beleive there were under 10 in beta... No insurance, apocs costing 256m... They were a rare, awesome, dreadfull, and amazing sight to see. If you got to see one you could consider yourself special, as you were running for your life. This was my best time in eve, and no, back then i was a nobody and i could barley keep a cruiser up and running.
I beleive that CCP, and all the beta people would like to see dreads be what battleships once were, and what they were always indended to be, rare. And yes, i want more than anything for me to be one of the few pilots, as way back then i told myself, someday i will be the one with the ultimate ship and be a sight to be feared! Alittle over a month into retail i did get my first battleship, a dominix, and being the gloater i can be at times i parked outside a noob station and accepted hundreds of convos daily. Now, you could get a battleship in a few hours of work, insure it so theres no loss. Its ruinied this game, its not as fun as it once was...and my stand is that i hope there are extreme limitations on it, even more extreme than what i said on the first page of this thread. I dont want it to be easy to get, not even for me.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.25 22:21:00 -
[75]
Originally by: ArcticWolf
I cannot remember exact numbers at the moment but i beleive there were under 10 in beta... No insurance, apocs costing 256m... They were a rare, awesome, dreadfull, and amazing sight to see.
Battleships were everywhere on armageddon day
Your point is valid tho, i feel the same way. Dreadnaughts should not just be another ship, they should be feared and respected.
________________________________________________________
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Nev Amati
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Posted - 2005.05.26 02:49:00 -
[76]
L guns can hit frigs at range. I would imagine XL guns can can hit cruisers at range. I expect a ganking dread will be able to project a sphere of influnce much large than current ganking ships.
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Squirrel
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Posted - 2005.05.26 03:01:00 -
[77]
if the XL gun mechanics work in the same manner as current guns, a single dread will definately be able to sit at the edge of grids with a scorp feeding him tracking/gun range and sensor range, while the dread is equipped with highest dps setup possible. This will be *very* bad for people, if the xl guns to be equipped on dreads are the same as those equipped with POS's.. A dread doing this will probably be able to hold key systems such as pf- or hed- alone for quite some time, until a cov ops frig manages to travel the what... 450+km to get the needed fleet within striking distance of the gankdread..
should be fun
_______________________________________________
Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2005.05.26 03:52:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Squirrel
if the XL gun mechanics work in the same manner as current guns, a single dread will definately be able to sit at the edge of grids with a scorp feeding him tracking/gun range and sensor range, while the dread is equipped with highest dps setup possible. This will be *very* bad for people, if the xl guns to be equipped on dreads are the same as those equipped with POS's.. A dread doing this will probably be able to hold key systems such as pf- or hed- alone for quite some time, until a cov ops frig manages to travel the what... 450+km to get the needed fleet within striking distance of the gankdread..
should be fun
We shall see soon enough.. I hope 
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.05.26 04:02:00 -
[79]
If they are not just expensive and hard to fly, but also hard to acquire, I'll be happy. No BPO's dropped pls.
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Nyk0n
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Posted - 2005.05.26 04:23:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Nyk0n on 26/05/2005 04:23:23
Im looking forward to reading this threads futre twin, about titans.....
I just hope every 3m sp "we should be able to fly 1 to cos i pay my money each month" carebear is very disapointed
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 06:57:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: ArcticWolf
I cannot remember exact numbers at the moment but i beleive there were under 10 in beta... No insurance, apocs costing 256m... They were a rare, awesome, dreadfull, and amazing sight to see.
Battleships were everywhere on armageddon day
Your point is valid tho, i feel the same way. Dreadnaughts should not just be another ship, they should be feared and respected.
Only way to ensure a ships rarity is to not allow it to be insured. Pretty simple.
Besides, since Dreads are supposed to be the anti-POS ship, they better bloody well not be insurable, since POS aren't
It would be completely "unbalanced" to allow a dred or two, each worth 1 bill approx, to take out a large industrial POS, probably worth 1 bill in modules alone not to mention the work and effort the people put into it, etc, etc.
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Lig Lira
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Posted - 2005.05.26 07:32:00 -
[82]
I doubt it'll need BS 5 because it's not a t2 ship (or is it?).
t2 battleships will probably require bs 5.
Which PA character are you?
That's no flying saucer, that's my ass! |
Glassback
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Posted - 2005.05.26 07:48:00 -
[83]
Who cares about the skills. I want to know what they are going to look like, what colour the trails will be etc etc, and PLEASE CCP, make the jump drive "jump" look super uber cool!
ps, I know they've released the Amarr one.
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symbiont
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Posted - 2005.05.26 07:57:00 -
[84]
imo ( yes, I know I am quite new, so please don't flame me :), the new ship types should be used as capital ships ( like fleet comander, or whatever) ... after all, from what I understood, Gallente Federation only had *6* of them ? So ... try to picture this, a whole federation with huge resources having 5-6 of them ( titans in this case) but a carebear could have about 5-6 on its own ? I think this really spoils the game, and the feeling that your alliance/corp/self/whatever has one of the rarest things in the universe. And then, picture this ... SHINRA ( no offence ment, but well, suits them) flying ganka-dreads fleets ? like humm ... 10 seconds ... kill pos, jump to next system ... 10 seconds ... kill pos .. next system and so on ? Yuk.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.05.26 09:40:00 -
[85]
XL ships are going to so majorly screw up this game.
The only thing we dont know is in what way, Good or Bad.
To ensure they limited amounts on the battlefield, the time to construct them and the effort should be tremendous.
Construction at a POS for several weeks should be reasonable.
This will at least force carebears to go into the "Ohnoes! Unsecure space!"
_______________________________________________
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.05.26 10:53:00 -
[86]
Oh yeah, dreadnoughts are going to be few. Yeah, the ones we see will be feared. And shall I tell you a sekrit? Every single player of eve wants to be that feared person. All I hear here is people saying, "These should be rare and feared, only I should have one, not everyone".
But guess what? Since they are so shiny and big, everyone will steer their skill training towards it. Guess what? Uber skill reqs will eventually be reached by every mission runner and empire miner that has a month or two. Guess what else? The required isk will eventually be earned.
If you make them a big blow to lose, people will mission run and mine with them solely in empire. People will have a few dreads in hanger. Simply put, they will be the new battleship.
What? Quit whining and make a suggestion? Ok. To make dreadnoughts ultra rare, follow the example of the only ship type I haven't seen; logistics.
Make dreadnoughts suck.
------------
We come in peace. And tanks. |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2005.05.26 11:15:00 -
[87]
Originally by: hired goon
Oh yeah, dreadnoughts are going to be few. Yeah, the ones we see will be feared. And shall I tell you a sekrit? Every single player of eve wants to be that feared person. All I hear here is people saying, "These should be rare and feared, only I should have one, not everyone".
But guess what? Since they are so shiny and big, everyone will steer their skill training towards it. Guess what? Uber skill reqs will eventually be reached by every mission runner and empire miner that has a month or two. Guess what else? The required isk will eventually be earned.
If you make them a big blow to lose, people will mission run and mine with them solely in empire. People will have a few dreads in hanger. Simply put, they will be the new battleship.
What? Quit whining and make a suggestion? Ok. To make dreadnoughts ultra rare, follow the example of the only ship type I haven't seen; logistics.
Make dreadnoughts suck.
 Mate i totally agree with you ,make dreads suck,and we could win prices for taking one out :)
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Dark SilverMKII
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Posted - 2005.05.26 13:15:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jonsemann
this is what i think(for caldari one)
Caldari Frigate lvl4
Caldari Cruiser lvl4
Caldari BAttleship lvl4
Caldari Dreadnaught lvl4
I read through most of the thread (might of missed something) but i think this is the only person who saw and followed the current trends in skill requirements...
Lets have a closer look:
Race Frigate 1 requires Spaceship Command 1 (you start with these skills)
Race Cruiser 1 requires Spaceship Command 3 and Race Frigate 4
Race Battleship requires Spaceship Command 4, Race Cruiser 4 and Race Frigate 4
If CCP do implement a new "Advanced" Spaceship Command skill then the likely requirements for flying a Dreadnought/Titan/Carrier are
Race Frig 4
Race Cruiser 4
Race Battleship 4
Spaceship Command 5
("Advanced Spaceship Command 2/3)?
Race Dreadnought 1/2
Race Titan 1/2
Race Carrier 1/2
I am guessing that the capital ships are going to be in seperate groups there, if not then you will require Race Capitalships 1-4, with the Dread/Carrier/Titan being the Fighter/Drone Ship/EW&Support ship...
Just my feelings but feel free to have a go if you think something might be wrong
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Krulla
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Posted - 2005.05.26 13:47:00 -
[89]
People are missing one big part:
This is not something you will be able to click the market button and then spend a lot of isk to aquire.
Those things are too big to dock, remember? How will you sell something on the market which can't dock? Personally, I think making one will be a big effort, maybe as someone said contstructing components at a factory then shipping them out to a POS and assembling them.
Also, they will not become the new battleship. Why you ask? Well, you know how BS guns have problems hitting cruisers and frigs? Well, dreadnaught guns will have problems hitting battleships, immense problems hitting cruisers, and frigs, well, I wouldn't try it.
So after you get one, then what? You will need lots of support, alone you will get swarmed, since your guns can't hit anything other than another dreadnaught once they get close, and your hideously expensive and hard to make ship is history.
Simply put, I do not think this will be anything others than alliances and big corps will be able to make easily, let alone have any use for.
Skill requirements, ISK cost, those will not keep people from flying them. Making them hard to build, will most likely hampen some of them from flying them. Not making them omfgwtfp00n anything within a 100 km radius by pressing a button will keep people from flying them. Limiting their usefulness will keep people from flying them. Making them need support will keep people from flying them.
Oh, and btw, they will require ice to power their jumpdrives, right? So I don't think any mission runner will get one, like hired goon was rambling about.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:15:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Krulla
Simply put, I do not think this will be anything others than alliances and big corps will be able to make easily, let alone have any use for.
Ah, the memories. I've heard this quote before. Except back then, it applied to battleships. Heck, I even believed it when I looked at the 100m pricetag back in beta. Didn't turn out quite so accurate though, did it?
I agree with you however, on the points of how to keep these ships rare. Skillreqs and Isk is just delaying the inevitable.
On the subject of mission runners, I'm afraid whatever problems they face when aquiring this new kombat-king ship will be circumvented somehow. Ice to run it? Once they're happily solo'ing level 4 missions they could afford it.
Of course I could still be proven wrong, but learning from the history of new ship introductions, I doubt it.
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We come in peace. And tanks. |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:51:00 -
[91]
Um, maybe they should not be allowed in 0.4... look, carebear in dread... boom.
And idea about constructing at POS is not bad. Inability to dock: no more solo flyin... And fitting 'stabs' on these should cripple them big time :)
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Remedial
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:02:00 -
[92]
The easiest solution to the problem of Dreads being a toy for the rich is to make them (and in fact, all BS and above) uninsurable. Even the rich wince when their billion isk ship blows up.
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Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:05:00 -
[93]
Well, seeing as they won't be able to dock at stations, they won't be able to access the insurance anyway. :P
| Don't be a bad loser | |
DarkMatters
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:06:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Dimitri Forgroth
Well, seeing as they won't be able to dock at stations, they won't be able to access the insurance anyway. :P
can someone point me to the dev blog which says this?
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:31:00 -
[95]
Last thing I remembered about them was that they were so big that the station factories could not build them but i never heard anything about them not being able to do.
What are you supposed to do? make a safe spot and eject from you dreadnaught anytime you want to fly something else, and risk someone with the skills just coming and taking you expensive toy without having to pay for it?
I seriously doubt they will restrict them from docking at stations. I could see them making so that they can not be built at stations but instead built at a shipyard module for the POS.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:38:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Selak Zorander
What are you supposed to do? make a safe spot and eject from you dreadnaught anytime you want to fly something else, and risk someone with the skills just coming and taking you expensive toy without having to pay for it?
Um, go to POS maybe? This thing is supposed to be 'useless' except for actions planned in advance.
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Justin Cody
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:45:00 -
[97]
They won't be able to dock..THEY ARE TOO BIG...so just fit a repairer, that simple.
second, quit whining about poeple being able to afford ships because they do missions. I know it seems unfair and perhaps a broken part of the game. However quit trying to impose your singular view of how the game should be played on everyone. I have done levle 4 missions, but I haven't spammed them. Frankly it bores me. But one thing I love about this game is the freedom it offers and something which I wish to keep enjoying. If I want to do level 4 missions for isk, then I darn sure will do it.
third...to the person who suggested that dreads shouldn't go below 05 space...POS's are ONLY anchorable at moons in 03 or less!!
The good news is that everyone is whining. I hope CCP is taking heart in this. I means they are doing someting right. I for one want a carrier and not a dreadnought. XL drones FTW
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Deakgu
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:51:00 -
[98]
ok so we agree that dreads gonna be rare and hard to keep in one piece (your dread will be THE trophy for every other person out there)
suggestion: dont count on getting one
and because of that, it would be silly to train otherwise wasted skill-levels..
so if you think it needs BS 5, then train it when you think the inherent bonus itself is worth it (or t2 BS but I havnt a clue of those)
cheers
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Drommy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:53:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Drommy on 26/05/2005 15:54:42
i got a feeling they aint gonna be to hard to buy or skill for, i mean when u look at what skills are needed from battle cruiser to bs, itll prolly be the same, bs lvl 3-4, and then for the guns, large .... turret lvl 3-4. it stands to reason since the devblog sed it will have twice the firepower and a little over twice the hp of a bs that they wont cost any more than 500mil. otherwise for there usefulness will be vastly overpriced for there power. 3-4 cruiser = battlecruiser in cost, 3-4 battle cruiser = battle ship tier 2 cost. so it stands to reason that based on a tier 2 bs costing 125 mil price will be 500 mil max. and i suspect they will be seeded at the beginging otherwise alliances simply would not release them for general use and just keep the bm for ther own ships,
or am i just chatting nonsence :)
edited for typo's
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A good leader takes their people where they want to go
A great leader takes their people not where they necessarily want to go, but ought too. |
Dark SilverMKII
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Posted - 2005.05.26 16:10:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Krulla
Also, they will not become the new battleship. Why you ask? Well, you know how BS guns have problems hitting cruisers and frigs? Well, dreadnaught guns will have problems hitting battleships, immense problems hitting cruisers, and frigs, well, I wouldn't try it.
According to CCP, these things are supposed to have two modes, one for battleship shooting, and one for station shooting, not to say that you can't do both anyway. These things will be able to shoot battleships, but they will hardly ever if they do at all hit cruisers or frigs, especially with the upcoming cruiser improvements to make them as maneuverable as they should be :)
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Drommy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 17:20:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Dark SilverMKII
According to CCP, these things are supposed to have two modes, one for battleship shooting, and one for station shooting, not to say that you can't do both anyway.
im pretty sure it sed you couldnt do both with the same setup
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A good leader takes their people where they want to go
A great leader takes their people not where they necessarily want to go, but ought too. |
Dark SilverMKII
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Posted - 2005.05.26 17:46:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Drommy
Originally by: Dark SilverMKII
According to CCP, these things are supposed to have two modes, one for battleship shooting, and one for station shooting, not to say that you can't do both anyway.
im pretty sure it sed you couldnt do both with the same setup
Hence why i said "not to say that you cant do both anyway"...
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ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2005.05.27 19:54:00 -
[103]
Edited by: ArcticWolf on 27/05/2005 19:55:53
To the person who said bs guns cant hit frigs or cruisers-
Most close range guns i know with only ONE supporting mod, a webber or painter, can hit cepters, not often no, but enough to kill them after a few volleys :). Cruisers, you dont even need a mod for that. Long range snipers can hit frigs easily if the pilot is dumb...
Now if your the kind of person who can buy a dread, why not hire a scorp, or a fleet of tacklers better yet, all fitted with target painters?
Edit- Oh...and as it stands right now the titans can dock with the stations... And their discription is a mobile station, dreadnaughts being the smaller combat ship, should be able to dock. Now, maybe the devs were just cheating when serpentis docked in serpentis prime...but we all saw a titan dock with the station
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Drommy
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Posted - 2005.05.27 20:06:00 -
[104]
its nothing to do with the sig radious, its the transversal velocity you gotta watch, but im thinking that in pos killing mode its gonna have guge guns that just hurtle dmg in the direction, i mean a pos sheild is what 40km across? i forget now sold mine long ago :)
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A good leader takes their people where they want to go
A great leader takes their people not where they necessarily want to go, but ought too. |
Zungen
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Posted - 2005.05.27 21:33:00 -
[105]
if new ships has jumpdrives then would that mean if they want to get away they could? since warp distruptors wouldnt have any use aganist them? :P
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Nev Amati
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Posted - 2005.05.27 21:43:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Drommy
its nothing to do with the sig radious, its the transversal velocity you gotta watch, but im thinking that in pos killing mode its gonna have guge guns that just hurtle dmg in the direction, i mean a pos sheild is what 40km across? i forget now sold mine long ago :)
Has to do with sig size, distance, and velocity relative to the tracking radius.
Something with large sig radius can be hit more easily than somehting with a small sig radius when going at the same velocity at the same distnace.
The point is, at a certain distance, no amount of sig radius or velocity will allow a ship to escape hits.
Thus, a gankdread will most definately be able to take out cruisers at range, and possibly frigs as well depending on support ships.
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Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2005.05.30 12:44:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 30/05/2005 12:47:01
Originally by: ArcticWolf
Edited by: ArcticWolf on 27/05/2005 19:55:53
To the person who said bs guns cant hit frigs or cruisers-
Most close range guns i know with only ONE supporting mod, a webber or painter, can hit cepters, not often no, but enough to kill them after a few volleys :). Cruisers, you dont even need a mod for that. Long range snipers can hit frigs easily if the pilot is dumb...
Now if your the kind of person who can buy a dread, why not hire a scorp, or a fleet of tacklers better yet, all fitted with target painters?
Edit- Oh...and as it stands right now the titans can dock with the stations... And their discription is a mobile station, dreadnaughts being the smaller combat ship, should be able to dock. Now, maybe the devs were just cheating when serpentis docked in serpentis prime...but we all saw a titan dock with the station
Hmm the way it prolly would work in real life if we don't count the gravity distortions that Titan's create. They don't dock into stations they dock with the station. Park it beside a station and extend the cargo / personel corridor and form a bridge with the station. That would be cool then should you atttack a Titan /dread that is docked outside the station. It would mean you attack the station as well. There would be limited amount of dread & titans you can dock per station. ( "god dammit move your dread away from the station allready, so I can dock as well" whinings). Well how about harbor arrays's to stations where you dock the BIG ships. eh ? and the when you are the customer, station provides security for your BIG ship at the ship harbor ( ppl could try to shoot it down on the outside but only with very big expense = few titans)
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