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Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Reckless Faith
15
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Posted - 2012.12.24 08:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Also to the question if a Gal pilot could earn 600k LPs in 4 hours? yes, pretty easy
at T5 each novice plex is 32,500 LP, for 10mins work in a t1 frig
Even the gal LP store items sell decent with them at T5..... all the datacores are worth around 950-1050 isk per LP in jita
So 32m for 10mins work in a t1 frig....... 56k LP for a small?
its pretty damn crazy.....why havent i rolled up 5 gal alts? LOL
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Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
22
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Posted - 2012.12.24 08:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:Also to the question if a Gal pilot could earn 600k LPs in 4 hours? yes, pretty easy
at T5 each novice plex is 32,500 LP, for 10mins work in a t1 frig
Even the gal LP store items sell decent with them at T5..... all the datacores are worth around 950-1050 isk per LP in jita
So 32m for 10mins work in a t1 frig....... 56k LP for a small?
its pretty damn crazy.....why havent i rolled up 5 gal alts? LOL
1. Before you guys joined it was so much worse you really shouldn't complain about it now.
2. Stop being so bad and you won't have to replace that many ships. Maybe stop throwing faction fits around, i heard that lowers the cost significantly.
3. Before you joined you could've read up on FW and chose the right side if you're only in it for the money.
Generally, stop whining. Things will even out again. There was a time when the Amarr kicked the crap out of us with nothing we could do. It changed since then, it will change again. The Amarr actually have the numbers, they just need to use em now. pew pew |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
719
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Posted - 2012.12.24 08:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx
Name the farming alts please. |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
149
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Posted - 2012.12.24 09:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot
And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil. |
Dan Carter Murray
263
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Posted - 2012.12.24 09:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote: 1. Before you guys joined it was so much worse you really shouldn't complain about it now.
debatable
Zen Guerrilla wrote:2. Stop being so bad and you won't have to replace that many ships. Maybe stop throwing faction fits around, i heard that lowers the cost significantly.
you have numbers (iron blobside can fleet more than the entire amarr militia combined in their TZ. LNA can fleet at least equal size during their TZ)
Zen Guerrilla wrote:3. Before you joined you could've read up on FW and chose the right side if you're only in it for the money.
lol
Zen Guerrilla wrote:Generally, stop whining. Things will even out again. There was a time when the Amarr kicked the crap out of us with nothing we could do. It changed since then, it will change again. The Amarr actually have the numbers, they just need to use em now. was because amarr had numbers
FW is fine. amarr just lacks numbers. minmatar lacks the desire for gfs. CCP can't really do anything to make minmatar grow a pair or amarr recruit better people. THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. |
JaneBudden
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
5
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Posted - 2012.12.24 09:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil.
.... maybe numbers will help you to understand the downtime plex disadvantage of gal mil before plex mechanics were made fair: say Gal mil has 10 people , caldari has 8 (easy numbers for stupid people) : as you can see caldari are outnumbered ;-)
ok now Old mechanics: lets say 10 plexes spawn after downtime : 5 gallente are at sleep because they are ustz, 4 gallente are eu tz but are at work... makes 1 gallente who can fight for the 10 plexes , Caldari: 2 us-tz, 3 eu-tz at work and Caldari have the "drama lama army" after downtime so amybe 3 active that time that makes: 3 vs 1 after downtime->>>>> 9 out of 10 plexes went for caldari the rest of the day well yeah nothing ;-) even if that there are 4 gall vs 3 Caldari in eu-tz and 5 vs 2 in us-tz ---> caldari win the plex fights
new mechanic: caldari capture the plexes after downtime and the rest of the day goes to gallente ,like the 10 vs 8 number count would suggest
and in addition yeah we have to get rid of all theeese farmers on all sides, more low dps spawns(1-2), less money for plexes and all can be happy
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Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture Beyond The Dark
98
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Posted - 2012.12.24 10:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tr1cky The wrote:
The age old question ... what next ?
Does ccp reset everything and we start all over again ?
Does ccp just .. reballance FW and then start all over again ?
Or we simply just continue with one side at t5 100% and the other side ... struggles to try to take back systems and flip the tables ...
I am ever so curious aswell i think most of us are actually
The answer is that the Gallente sit on their asses while the Caldari, led by the Pervs, hold every single FW system. for like a YEAR. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
293
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Posted - 2012.12.24 10:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
There is no evidence of farmer alts. The VP numbers are pretty even. These are complicated issues so i forgive you for being completely ignorant of them.
Is that supposed to be a dumb troll or have you just not undocked in the last 8 months? Anyone that tries to say there is no farmer alts is delusional at best or just a very bad troll. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
293
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Posted - 2012.12.24 11:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:
This is the sad fate of FW as it is now.......... and the other corps will get bored, but not before 90% of the Caldari and Amarr corps bail b/c it has become usless
It is only a mater of time before more and more Gal plex farmers looking for easy isk move into Amarr space, and then its over quick
I'll be shooting what I can till then.....
When Amarr held no space that's what Caldari had to deal with when we were still winning on our front. We had more Minmatar farmer alts in our space than Galentte PVPers. This is largely part of the reason Caldari lost most of it's space because you just couldn't defend against them and you got nothing if you did.
As Caldari loses it's space there will be no where for them to plex so they will just go to your space much like they came to ours when Amarr had nothing. Caldari actually went as far to start sending our guys to Amarr space in-order to try and flip systems to take the pressure off.
The whole system is broken, but don't expect CCP to fix it. They don't care if it's hundreds of ISK farmers spiking the activity they just look at the activity as more subscriptions. CCP knows they only keep subscriptions up, because of people paying by Plex. If people can't afford their 600 mil ISK Plex then they let their alt accounts expire which means CCP earns less money.
This is why they let the Scantum farming go on as long as they did, It's why they left LVL 5 missions in high sec as long as they did and it's why they left Incursion farming go as long as they did. FW is just the next farmville ad it will stay this way until the community bitches an moans about it long enough that they have to nerf it.
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BrutalButFair
Fleet of the Damned Happy Endings
39
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Posted - 2012.12.24 12:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right? |
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
48
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
BrutalButFair wrote:Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right?
Farmers will either switch to missions or leave. This is when the squids can make a comeback if they want to try and time it right.
QCATS is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180
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Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
149
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
JaneBudden wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil. .... maybe numbers will help you to understand ... words the rest of the day well yeah nothing ;-) even if that there are 4 gall vs 3 Caldari in eu-tz and 5 vs 2 in us-tz ---> caldari win the plex fights
Mate I was there I fully understand the Plex spawning but faction wise it WAS fair, everyone had the same chance to log in and plex, TZ wise you right it the spawning was imbalanced but no one was ever stopped from logging in to run them, that also was the same mechanic exploration plex's used and the post DT explorers used to have the same advantage and cherry picking the sites.
I could also use the numbers game to say how many more people we had to commit to plexing than the other side which def was unfair and went on for years because of the NPC's but that been done to death already. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
295
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Posted - 2012.12.24 14:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
BrutalButFair wrote:Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right?
They just move to the other side of the map and start farming Amarr systems. This is what happened when Minmatar took most of Amarr's systems and Caldari was doing well. We ended up with hoards of Minmatar alts farming Caldari systems.
That is what allowed the Gals to take back systems to the point of winning, because of the influx of Minmatar farmer alts. When Caldari had war zone control a few months ago it wasn't Gal plexers that brought them back it was Minmatar farmer alts.
Even if you start to get a upswing rolling like say what the Amarr managed to do, they still eventually get over run by the farmers from both Gal & Min. It's what you are seeing now in Amarr space. Even if Caldari start taking space back, it will end up with both Min & Gal farmers rolling in once they have nothing left in Amarr Space. |
Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
96
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Posted - 2012.12.24 15:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx
Name the farming alts please.
XG - you know facts always get in the way of a good whine fest....
--break--
I swear, the tears are unbelievable and grand
I joined FW 3 years ago just as Gal Mil lost our remaining systems. Less crying, more playing might help.... |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
48
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Posted - 2012.12.24 15:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:BrutalButFair wrote:Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right? They just move to the other side of the map and start farming Amarr systems. This is what happened when Minmatar took most of Amarr's systems and Caldari was doing well. We ended up with hoards of Minmatar alts farming Caldari systems. That is what allowed the Gals to take back systems to the point of winning, because of the influx of Minmatar farmer alts. When Caldari had war zone control a few months ago it wasn't Gal plexers that brought them back it was Minmatar farmer alts. Even if you start to get a upswing rolling like say what the Amarr managed to do, they still eventually get over run by the farmers from both Gal & Min. It's what you are seeing now in Amarr space. Even if Caldari start taking space back, it will end up with both Min & Gal farmers rolling in once they have nothing left in Amarr Space. As long as it's easy to make LP's the farmers will not go anywhere. The LP's for plexing have to either be removed completely or they need to make equal payout no matter what side you are on and end the retardedness of the tier system. The tier system never worked with ship hulls and we are finally getting that fixed, but for some reason CCP's brainstorming thought that a FW tier system would work..
The above will most likely happen. After that, Gal and Minnie LP/Isk ratio for racial items will tank to the point of worthless, while amarr/Caldari LP/isk ratio will rise for racial items. Some gal and Minnie corps will get bored and go to 0.0. Farmers will join amarr and Caldari because of the massive amount of plexes available and the good return on the racial items. The pendulum will then start to swing back the other way as the farming hoarde switches sides. This cycle will then repeat with nothing being able to stop the farmer hoarde.
QCATS is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
295
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Posted - 2012.12.24 15:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:
The above will most likely happen. After that, Gal and Minnie LP/Isk ratio for racial items will tank to the point of worthless, while amarr/Caldari LP/isk ratio will rise for racial items. Some gal and Minnie corps will get bored and go to 0.0. Farmers will join amarr and Caldari because of the massive amount of plexes available and the good return on the racial items. The pendulum will then start to swing back the other way as the farming hoarde switches sides. This cycle will then repeat with nothing being able to stop the farmer hoarde.
I don't know if it will be enough value to turn the tide TBH. If you look at your Navy Comets they are not overly devalued compared to the other FW faction ships (in fact they are worth more than Hookbills) and things like the implants are available in each factions store, so they could become the baseline item that is sold no matter whom is winning.
Also look at how cheap the Navy Geddons were even when Amarr had no warzone control. It's price never really went up that much and it was a ship that was very popular with the l33t fancy fleet PVPers. I think once you have 2 sides that are allies dominating it's going to be near impossible for the other two sides to come back, simply because it's too easy for the farmers to flood to the other war zone and stop the progress.
In order for Amarr & Caldari to over power the force that the farmers bring they would both have to retake their warzone control at the same time. Outside this happening there is just far too many farmville alts to recover from.
I would like to hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it happening, now that you can no longer leave systems vulnerable in order to flip at a strategic time. That pretty much ended the farming flop flopping that we had going on at the time between Cal & Gals and pretty much placed the war zone control in hands of Gals by it's timing. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
719
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 16:15:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think part of the LP faucet created by CCP was to make faction navy ships more affordable. Performance-wise they ought to be less expensive than their T2 counterparts and finally that is what is happening.
Edit: Also, the map better reflects reality now than before. Right now Gallente dominate most of the time and they now dominate the map. Caldari are still strong in Eha, Rakapas, and OMS/Ladi and it shows. Farmers really only affect the under populated regions of the FW where nobody lives and there is likely nothing that can be done about that other than reduce the size of the map. But then people would complain that the map is too small. What'cha gonna do? |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
4
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Posted - 2012.12.24 16:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil.
amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
4
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Posted - 2012.12.24 16:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
fw is not a faucet no isk is generated its a sink we put isk in. we get the cash cos were the bottleneck of the sales of faction items |
Gunship
FATAL Warfare
23
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Happy to fight for the Amarr side. However the number games and the LP bonus does make it silly.
I totally get the M side, great LP and SFI's for the taking.
The SFI for FW is far better than the Omen. The Amarr frig is useless.
I continually find we have to stack up against the other side outnumbered and out shipped.
Today ill put an alt in M and then plex until all systems are taken, then perhaps I can fly out in a SFI too.
The tier system should be dropped and the system level removed. Make x systems blue and x systems red, then let the pvp begin. The sides with the fewest active pilots in space get the most LP that should even the sides nicely. Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1319
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Posted - 2012.12.24 17:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
I don't know what the Squids are complaining about. They held all of Gallente space for six months, and there's absolutely no way they're going to be unable to take back at least one Caldari system before six months is over. Mane 614
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
8
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Posted - 2012.12.24 22:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
8 and counting |
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare
15
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Posted - 2012.12.25 02:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote:Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:Also to the question if a Gal pilot could earn 600k LPs in 4 hours? yes, pretty easy
at T5 each novice plex is 32,500 LP, for 10mins work in a t1 frig
Even the gal LP store items sell decent with them at T5..... all the datacores are worth around 950-1050 isk per LP in jita
So 32m for 10mins work in a t1 frig....... 56k LP for a small?
its pretty damn crazy.....why havent i rolled up 5 gal alts? LOL
1. Before you guys joined it was so much worse you really shouldn't complain about it now. 2. Stop being so bad and you won't have to replace that many ships. Maybe stop throwing faction fits around, i heard that lowers the cost significantly. 3. Before you joined you could've read up on FW and chose the right side if you're only in it for the money. Generally, stop whining. Things will even out again. There was a time when the Amarr kicked the crap out of us with nothing we could do. It changed since then, it will change again. The Amarr actually have the numbers, they just need to use em now.
A) I did play when it was worse, I joined as a Nulli Pilot, and then swapped to mintar for the isk (was making 300-350m easy) but that got boring really quick so went back to Amarr after a short EVE break to get gfs
B)I am not worried about how much isk someone can make, but the poster I was replaying to was asking if someone could really make 150k+ LP an hour and make that much isk. I was just showing him the math that its really easy
C) You are right about Amarr Militia being able to do much better than we are now........ so many FW corps and alliances that think very differently, and lots of egos. Though Minnies have that too... there is an active war between two of your alliances in FW :-P
D) As long as we can hold T2 (almost doubtful once gal start plexing in amarr space) the isk is fine to fly faction fitted DD and welp them......I run 2 sets of missions a week, thats half a bill easy. Rest of my time is just that, welping DDs but damn, its the most fun ive had in EVE in a long time!
See you on the field Tsobai
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
21
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Posted - 2012.12.25 22:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
7 and counting |
Lexmana
715
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 00:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil. amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me Not before CCP "balanced" NPCs by removing e-war but by then everybody and their mother already had a farming alt in Minmatar and they have since kept their farming superiority. It is a structural problem and will not likely change with current mechanics. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
214
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Posted - 2012.12.26 01:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ignoring the trolling tards - to the OP:
FW is never 'winnable'. It is a see-saw that always has a tipping point.
Currently (and for the near foreseeable future) that tipping point will be defined by the price of each Navy's ships and LP to ISK conversion rates for the FW shops. As one side reaches a 'win' their LP reduces in value dramatically while the opponents LP massively increases in value.
Rest assured when Navy BS prices rise high enough again for the losing factions, some huge entity of coordinated players will sign up for a duration to the losing side just so their farmers can grind out a wealth of relatively easy ISK in the form of Navy BS etc....
With the latest mechanics is will just take them a while longer to reach their 'cashout' point... and right now the fat LP item stocks from the crazy Inferno FW tier 4 and 5 'cashouts' are still keeping the market artificially lower for both the winning and losing factions.
I personally am sat on 12 Navy Domis that probably wont be worth selling until Caldari have been back on top for a month or so.... So it is more interesting to plan long term in FW right now than ever before. When that Caldari tipping point will be though I cannot say because arguably they have the worst Navy BS and some of the most hardcore LP farmers stopping their LP value rising quickly enough. Amarr at least have some awesome navy BS worth fighting for and with the smaller warzone it is probably an easier tipping target for some nullblock etc
But thats just what my Xmas night drunken look into the crystal ball tells me, and noone bought me a tech II crystall ball for Chrimbo unfortunately so I'll often be wrong.
Cheers.
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Marc Callan
NullOcular Order
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 10:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
Well, to be fair, the Caldari faction battleships are slower to sell because the tasks they're used for most often don't get them blown up as much - they're premier PVE ships. Given that the Raven Navy is the premier missile boat for PVE, and the Scorpion Navy can field a passive shield tank second only to the Rattlesnake, there is demand for them for missioning ... and their prices are starting to rise. The Scorp bottomed out at about 220 million this summer, during the heyday of farming; it's already climbed by fifty percent since then, and since State Protectorate is the only source of Scorpion Navy ... well, time will tell.
Oh, and also, there's the little question of whether the Gallente's march is like the Russians heading for Berlin in 1945 ... or more like the Germans heading for Moscow in 1941. Time will tell with regard to that one as well. |
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare
38
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Posted - 2012.12.26 13:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Ignoring the trolling tards - to the OP:
FW is never 'winnable'. It is a see-saw that always has a tipping point.
Currently (and for the near foreseeable future) that tipping point will be defined by the price of each Navy's ships and LP to ISK conversion rates for the FW shops. As one side reaches a 'win' their LP reduces in value dramatically while the opponents LP massively increases in value.
Rest assured when Navy BS prices rise high enough again for the losing factions, some huge entity of coordinated players will sign up for a duration to the losing side just so their farmers can grind out a wealth of relatively easy ISK in the form of Navy BS etc....
But is that healthy for FW?
Should I have to wait for my old Nulli Secunda friends to get that wild hair that Panic Ngeddon Fleet can still work! swarm FW and save the day? then it revert back to normal after 2months?
honestly I dont see an end to this, so I shall enjoy it the only way I can, Alts to run missions on one said and make isk, and buy ships for my main to enjoy the game.
I honestly wouldn't mind the isk making at T2, yes it is slightly better to be at T3 or T4 but for what I need its fine..... but T1 is about useless at -50% income |
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
147
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Posted - 2012.12.26 13:51:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Ignoring the trolling tards - to the OP:
FW is never 'winnable'. It is a see-saw that always has a tipping point.
Currently (and for the near foreseeable future) that tipping point will be defined by the price of each Navy's ships and LP to ISK conversion rates for the FW shops. As one side reaches a 'win' their LP reduces in value dramatically while the opponents LP massively increases in value.
Actually, no.
1. The LP value of the winning side won't go into freefall, that is because the items from the LP stores compete with those from non-FW LP stores (missions). That means if the wining side experiences an LP value drop, that will be an EVE-wide drop, and thus will affect all factions equally.
2. The only item that doesn't have an FW alternative for the Amarr is the Navy Geddon. All other ships are available through alternative LP stores. The price of Slicers will go above 35-40 million, because at that point the other (non-FW) LP stores become more attractive.
3. There is a limited demand or unique LP store items or faction ships. If a ship isn't generally very useful in the EVE meta-game, then there is only room in the market for a limited number. If these ships are the only profitable item in their FW store for the losing side, it means that too much supply and market saturation causes prices to stay low enough for them to not become a big enough incentive to gain LP in FW.
4. Even if the LP gain from the losing side does deliver some value, it has to deliver *more* value than the opposing factions, otherwise people will simply join the winning factions as source of income. |
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
147
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 14:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote: Farmers will either switch to missions or leave. This is when the squids can make a comeback if they want to try and time it right.
You are right that farmers will switch to missions or leave. What you also must realize that if the Caldari make a comeback of say 5-10 systems (with many more contested), then the farmers will also make a similar comeback, since the Caldari have basically generated a lot of easy isk again by their efforts.
It is not hard not time-consuming or requires great investement to come back to farming FW isk, and the current theory is that the losing side needs a lot more time to achieve a comeback that amounts to Tier 2 or 3 than the time the farmers need to switch back to FW as income source. |
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