personaly i don't think it will be like null .. for one if one faction wins .. then they will be at t5 which means lps will be magical .. so money will be made alot and even if they won't have wt's to fight its still low sec .. and pirates are many


thats just my oppinion ..

Here is what happens:

The losers trim the fat. Complainers. Defeatists. People who refuse to fly 'x' ship or get in a plex at all. They head for the door. Those that are left are committed to winning and are open to new ideas and teamwork. The remnants get more organized and that organization in turn attracts new blood.

The winners struggle to keep it together. Individual pilots who want 'gudfights' may defect for the opposition. People get bored and log in less frequently. An influx of farmers garners resentment. Internal wardecs poisons the militia. Whole corps or even alliances might quit to greener pastures.

You get a shiny medal. 2 years later they change the mechanics and hand a victory to your opponents. That way everyone gets a medal. It's only fair.

what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot

what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot

Topical seeing as this is likely to happen to two factions over the christmas period if they (we) cant get our **** together rather promptly

I never knew that Galente were not aloud to log in & undock after DT. Guess you learn something new each day..

well it fitted u guys perfectly so drama and his 40 alts could get into all the plexes in our off time, now its even plexes at anytime. u guys cry bout the ustz being too strong but dont see that u have advantages in other timezones this is not ccps fault its caldari militias fault, u guys are so fractioned and hate each other so much were as gallentes pull together and get the job done..... simplez


9 and counting

Post-Retribution, it's equally easy for all four sides to rake in plexes with NPCs playing a minimal role in the occupancy war.

In other words, it's now up to the players.

Yet you cry about old plex mechanics as if it somehow gave Caldari a advantage, all the while ignoring the great advantage you now have as if 100s of farmer alts aren't doing the work for you. At least when Caldari took all your systems it was done people that were out there to have PVP, not armies of T1 frigs that run at first site of combat.

Confirming that plexing alts never existed prior to Inferno, and that no one had ever speed-tanked Gallente and Amarrian plexes with stabbed, gun-less frigs using alts.

Never ever.

The big difference is that militia members now get paid for plexing and PvP, encouraging more people to regularly participate than that handful of die-hards (and their alts) who care a lot about dots on a map.

Since the inception of FW and right up to the Retribution expansion, the Caldari militia has been supported by the crutch of NPC imbalance.

It is hard to understate the strategic advantage one side possesses when they can speed-tank every single one of the other side's plexes in a PvP frigate. Especially when the other side, when they try to play offense, must either destroy the rats because of missile spam and overwhelming ECM, or use PvE fits with enough tank to last.

A similar imbalance, albeit to a lesser extent, existed on the Minmatar / Amarr front. A pvp rifter could ignore the rats' laser light show; Amarrians had to contend with missile spam from the Minmatar rats.

Post-Retribution, it's equally easy for all four sides to rake in plexes with NPCs playing a minimal role in the occupancy war.

In other words, it's now up to the players.

Ahh so when it's bad for Caldari it's "Caldari's" fault but when it's bad for Gallente it's once again "Caldari's" fault.

When you guys have numbers advantage it's Caldari should recruit more blahh blahh blahh. When Caldari have numbers advantage it's obviously broken game mechanics that let us win.

I see where this is going..


Let us remember up until CCP started messing with the Sov war crap and giving a tier system there was no advantage for new players to FW to join either side. It was clearly up to them to join the side they liked the best or had their favorite space ships. There was no disadvantage of not being able to make ISK or not being able to dock.

Meaning even when Caldari held all your systems you could still bring new blood in because having lost all your systems did not affect your gameplay. Now CCP created null sec lite in order to make system captures mean something which in turn creates a situation where there is no reason to join the side that happens to be losing at the time.

Yet you cry about old plex mechanics as if it somehow gave Caldari a advantage, all the while ignoring the great advantage you now have as if 100s of farmer alts aren't doing the work for you. At least when Caldari took all your systems it was done by people that were out there to PVP, not armies of T1 frigs that run at first site of combat, whom have zero interest in FW outside of the isk faucet.

There is no evidence of farmer alts. The VP numbers are pretty even. These are complicated issues so i forgive you for being completely ignorant of them.

I was at Tannakan early in the morning and chasing a comet with cloak. I almost caught him once however I was 1 second late. After a while of cat and mouse game he finally got pissed off and we started a conversation. At the end of the conversation I think I was more disappointed then the other guy, as he was kinda stating the bitter truth.

[05:04:04] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Tannakan
[05:10:39] Threatty Chelien Kazim Scumling
[05:10:56] Kazim Scumling > ?
[05:11:05] Threatty Chelien > why do you keep following me
[05:11:18] Kazim Scumling > You look like a hot chick
[05:11:32] Threatty Chelien > :l
[05:11:44] Threatty Chelien > if i do then well ur ...
[05:12:09] Kazim Scumling > :(
[05:12:31] Threatty Chelien > dude i really need to plex my accounts
[05:12:41] Threatty Chelien > your not helping =[
[05:12:58] Threatty Chelien > switching ships back and fourth
[05:13:06] Threatty Chelien > to get me
[05:13:23] Kazim Scumling > Why should I help you plex your accounts?
[05:13:42] Threatty Chelien > cause its simple
[05:14:07] Threatty Chelien > leaaave me alone <-
[05:14:25] Kazim Scumling > As you plex here you waste LPs I donated for this system's upgrades
[05:14:37] Kazim Scumling > So it's not beneficial for me to let you be here
[05:14:42] Threatty Chelien > i left your system already
[05:14:51] Threatty Chelien > why not go there and deplex it
[05:15:16] Kazim Scumling > Nahh Sahtogas/Tannakan/Saikamon/Anka and all other systems around is important for us
[05:15:30] Kazim Scumling > If you want to plex more peacfully I suggest you to move the other side of the map
[05:15:30] Threatty Chelien > thats what another amarr told me yesterday
[05:15:36] Threatty Chelien > Hey
[05:15:38] Threatty Chelien > check my militia (note: I checked it's Gallente)
[05:15:42] Threatty Chelien > ^
[05:15:56] Kazim Scumling > Then go plex Caldari space
[05:15:57] Threatty Chelien > i aint minmatar
[05:16:05] Kazim Scumling > You're still damaging our upgrades
[05:16:14] Threatty Chelien > Caldari space is all taken and the systems left over are just pure warfields for the infastructure hubs
[05:16:33] Threatty Chelien > They even start calling in corps to take over Tama
[05:16:41] Threatty Chelien > and Tama is the low sec system right next to jita...
[05:17:37] Kazim Scumling > This is our space and I'm forsworn to protect it
[05:17:43] Threatty Chelien > No your not
[05:17:52] Threatty Chelien > its amarr space not your space
[05:18:01] Threatty Chelien > it might as well be mine if i hit enlist on your militia
[05:18:11] Kazim Scumling > Yeah join us then :D :D
[05:18:19] Threatty Chelien > no you guys suck
[05:18:25] Threatty Chelien > Tier 1/2 = bad
[05:18:35] Threatty Chelien > Gallente is almost at ******* T5
[05:18:52] Kazim Scumling > yeah but you're complaining that you don't find space to plex
[05:19:02] Threatty Chelien > yeah
[05:19:05] Kazim Scumling > We never have such issues
[05:19:17] Threatty Chelien > yeah cause u guys suck so badly minmatar/gallente has it all
[05:19:42] Kazim Scumling > Well sorry no easy ISK for you here
[05:19:50] Kazim Scumling > Go check other parts of the map
[05:20:17] Threatty Chelien > i made 600k LP within 4 hours
[05:20:34] Threatty Chelien > and yes i will check other parts


....................................

I don't know if the guy told truth about 600k LP in 4 hours. If so it sounds a bit too much. What is equally disturbing is Gallente pilots starting to plex at Amarr space. Considering we're (Amarr) struggling to keep upgades up (even though we donate hell amount of LP continuously) and loosing almost 1 system per day, I think it's going to a bitter end.

I'm not blaming our Amarr brothers as I really don't think we suck. However we're getting overwhelmed by superior numbers and far better resources.

As a corporation most of our members rely on Faction Warfare LP as an income. If Amarr militia sticks to Tier1 for an extended period of time, and if we're pushed to very few systems where everything around is continuously camped by superior numbers, we'll have to leave it.

One could suggest rather than leaving, staying and fighting for it. However fighting against twice the numbers and thrice the resources just doesn't make sense. Other options sounds more reasonable, as this is a game, not a real-life war scenario where we should fight or die.

I know some suggests that winning side eventually will be bored or get disoriented. I know it happened in the past. However there is a big difference now, great LP income. I don't think majority will get bored of such a good amount of continuous ISK. Making a 2-3 week old alt flying a rifter with 2 warp stabilizers you can make more ISK that a lvl4 missioning pilot. And unfortunately those pilots effecting the state of factional warfare.

It might have been the Amarr/Caldari side winning this hard. And if it would have been the case, Minmatar/Gallente side would have been struggled really hard to keep up due to Tier-profit difference and effect of LP farmers. This system has some problems in such a way that it creates a huge snowball effect.

This is the last post I'm planning to make about the state of Factional Warfare, as I don't want to look as a whiner. We'll try to help our faction to hold it's ground a bit more. Hope it works out.

Also to the question if a Gal pilot could earn 600k LPs in 4 hours? yes, pretty easy


at T5 each novice plex is 32,500 LP, for 10mins work in a t1 frig

Even the gal LP store items sell decent with them at T5..... all the datacores are worth around 950-1050 isk per LP in jita

So 32m for 10mins work in a t1 frig....... 56k LP for a small?

its pretty damn crazy.....why havent i rolled up 5 gal alts? LOL

what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot

1. Before you guys joined it was so much worse you really shouldn't complain about it now.

2. Stop being so bad and you won't have to replace that many ships. Maybe stop throwing faction fits around, i heard that lowers the cost significantly.

3. Before you joined you could've read up on FW and chose the right side if you're only in it for the money.

Generally, stop whining. Things will even out again. There was a time when the Amarr kicked the crap out of us with nothing we could do. It changed since then, it will change again. The Amarr actually have the numbers, they just need to use em now.

And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil.

The age old question ... what next ?


Does ccp reset everything and we start all over again ?

Does ccp just .. reballance FW and then start all over again ?


Or we simply just continue with one side at t5 100% and the other side ... struggles to try to take back systems and flip the tables ...



I am ever so curious aswell i think most of us are actually

There is no evidence of farmer alts. The VP numbers are pretty even. These are complicated issues so i forgive you for being completely ignorant of them.

This is the sad fate of FW as it is now.......... and the other corps will get bored, but not before 90% of the Caldari and Amarr corps bail b/c it has become usless

It is only a mater of time before more and more Gal plex farmers looking for easy isk move into Amarr space, and then its over quick


I'll be shooting what I can till then.....

Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right?

.... maybe numbers will help you to understand ... words

the rest of the day well yeah nothing ;-) even if that there are 4 gall vs 3 Caldari in eu-tz and 5 vs 2 in us-tz
---> caldari win the plex fights

Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right?

https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx

Name the farming alts please.

They just move to the other side of the map and start farming Amarr systems. This is what happened when Minmatar took most of Amarr's systems and Caldari was doing well. We ended up with hoards of Minmatar alts farming Caldari systems.

That is what allowed the Gals to take back systems to the point of winning, because of the influx of Minmatar farmer alts. When Caldari had war zone control a few months ago it wasn't Gal plexers that brought them back it was Minmatar farmer alts.

Even if you start to get a upswing rolling like say what the Amarr managed to do, they still eventually get over run by the farmers from both Gal & Min. It's what you are seeing now in Amarr space. Even if Caldari start taking space back, it will end up with both Min & Gal farmers rolling in once they have nothing left in Amarr Space.

As long as it's easy to make LP's the farmers will not go anywhere. The LP's for plexing have to either be removed completely or they need to make equal payout no matter what side you are on and end the retardedness of the tier system.

The tier system never worked with ship hulls and we are finally getting that fixed, but for some reason CCP's brainstorming thought that a FW tier system would work..

The above will most likely happen. After that, Gal and Minnie LP/Isk ratio for racial items will tank to the point of worthless, while amarr/Caldari LP/isk ratio will rise for racial items. Some gal and Minnie corps will get bored and go to 0.0. Farmers will join amarr and Caldari because of the massive amount of plexes available and the good return on the racial items. The pendulum will then start to swing back the other way as the farming hoarde switches sides. This cycle will then repeat with nothing being able to stop the farmer hoarde.

And Minnies could take every plex in a gunless t1 frig up to a few weeks ago, yet CCP let that one slide for years but the broken mechanic where Gal/Min couldn't log in after DT was fixed years ago, ya that was fair...... Imbecil.

1. Before you guys joined it was so much worse you really shouldn't complain about it now.

2. Stop being so bad and you won't have to replace that many ships. Maybe stop throwing faction fits around, i heard that lowers the cost significantly.

3. Before you joined you could've read up on FW and chose the right side if you're only in it for the money.

Generally, stop whining. Things will even out again. There was a time when the Amarr kicked the crap out of us with nothing we could do. It changed since then, it will change again. The Amarr actually have the numbers, they just need to use em now.

amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me

Ignoring the trolling tards - to the OP:

FW is never 'winnable'. It is a see-saw that always has a tipping point.

Currently (and for the near foreseeable future) that tipping point will be defined by the price of each Navy's ships and LP to ISK conversion rates for the FW shops. As one side reaches a 'win' their LP reduces in value dramatically while the opponents LP massively increases in value.

Rest assured when Navy BS prices rise high enough again for the losing factions, some huge entity of coordinated players will sign up for a duration to the losing side just so their farmers can grind out a wealth of relatively easy ISK in the form of Navy BS etc....

Ignoring the trolling tards - to the OP:

FW is never 'winnable'. It is a see-saw that always has a tipping point.

Currently (and for the near foreseeable future) that tipping point will be defined by the price of each Navy's ships and LP to ISK conversion rates for the FW shops. As one side reaches a 'win' their LP reduces in value dramatically while the opponents LP massively increases in value.

Farmers will either switch to missions or leave. This is when the squids can make a comeback if they want to try and time it right.

I think part of the LP faucet created by CCP was to make faction navy ships more affordable. Performance-wise they ought to be less expensive than their T2 counterparts and finally that is what is happening.

Edit: Also, the map better reflects reality now than before. Right now Gallente dominate most of the time and they now dominate the map. Caldari are still strong in Eha, Rakapas, and OMS/Ladi and it shows. Farmers really only affect the under populated regions of the FW where nobody lives and there is likely nothing that can be done about that other than reduce the size of the map. But then people would complain that the map is too small. What'cha gonna do?

farmers do affect whole map, last reminants who still play FW on caldari side are tied up to defend those systems you mentioned because farmers keep them busy. They do it practically without rewards.

Now if you wonder why we do not take more systems is that no one is willing to run alt horde on caldari side and do the basic plexing all around area keeping gallente defenders busy.

Only thing that keeps gallente 'winning' is that all farmers are on their side, this is why FW does not work at all now, it is even worse than before inferno, CCP did not fix FW they broke it totally.

Biggest **** up from CCP side was to bring some changes faster than others so CCP decided which side will get advantage. No point to fight war where game company favors one side, you can not really win it.

Personally i am playing other games because EVE does not offer any activity that interest me at this moment, changing and bringing more ships does not really bring anything new to game.

I think part of the LP faucet created by CCP...

amarr could do exactly the same in gunless frigs too trust me

No they couldn't, trust me.

No they couldn't, trust me.

well my 4 gunless farming alts that made fat lp wen nulli came in beg to differ

and then there was 6

I was baffled that FW gives LP for PvE stuff, but then I realized FW isn't about PvP at all.

Shoot a member of the opposing militia and receive some hundred LP.

OR

Orbit a novice plex for 10 minutes and receive 32k LP.


I think CCP under-estimates the boredom-suffering skills of its playerbase.

debatable

you have numbers (iron blobside can fleet more than the entire amarr militia combined in their TZ. LNA can fleet at least equal size during their TZ)

lol

was because amarr had numbers

FW is fine. amarr just lacks numbers. minmatar lacks the desire for gfs. CCP can't really do anything to make minmatar grow a pair or amarr recruit better people.

Happy to fight for the Amarr side. However the number games and the LP bonus does make it silly.

I totally get the M side, great LP and SFI's for the taking.

The SFI for FW is far better than the Omen. The Amarr frig is useless.

I continually find we have to stack up against the other side outnumbered and out shipped.

Today ill put an alt in M and then plex until all systems are taken, then perhaps I can fly out in a SFI too.

The tier system should be dropped and the system level removed. Make x systems blue and x systems red, then let the pvp begin. The sides with the fewest active pilots in space get the most LP that should even the sides nicely.

Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right?

Here is what happens:

The losers trim the fat. Complainers. Defeatists. People who refuse to fly 'x' ship or get in a plex at all. They head for the door. Those that are left are committed to winning and are open to new ideas and teamwork. The remnants get more organized and that organization in turn attracts new blood.

The winners struggle to keep it together. Individual pilots who want 'gudfights' may defect for the opposition. People get bored and log in less frequently. An influx of farmers garners resentment. Internal wardecs poisons the militia. Whole corps or even alliances might quit to greener pastures.

Winning @ factional warfare means nothing. Hmm! I suppose isk; but guess what? You can make alot of isk in low sec without being in factional warfare. Why cant a loser still make isk? Because they're lazy? I suppose its easier to complain and whine.

So bitter.
I love it.

It's easy to make such comments and ignore the facts. You can always say yeah its gonna happen "soon." But do you mind if I ask how long this process is supposed to take? Or will you never admit that the system is simply bad?

Under the current mechanics people who want to do the play the sov warfare thing in faction war have 2 choices:

1) plex for more money
or
2) plex for less money

It seems to me that people convincingly chosen option 1 since may 22nd.

So when are we going to see amarr with 50 systems and Minmatar with only 20?

-Cearain's alt

I really hope CCP / CSM actually read some of these posts

You still have more forum posts than VPs.

- DCM's alt

I think CCP under-estimates the boredom-suffering skills of its playerbase.

The factions have been at war for centuries.. I doubt the conflict ending is a real worry..

Man can I get back the time I spent reading all this crap.....again!

Seriously you lot need to get out and just shoot summit.

I left FW on an old toon becasue there wasn't any 'meaning' to it. Now i'm back in Amarr FW and have no plans to leave.

FW is definately better than it was prior. (The bitter vets that disagree can't adapt to the times and probably should just go play something else for a while till you miss the stuff that eve has over other games)

Now I can pvp to my hearts content and still earn enough LP (yes even at teir 1 and the -50% gearing) to fund my pvp. I sometimes spend hours just orbitng the button and other time I can't do it for more than 10 mins before leroying into whatever target i find cos i'm so bored.

Guys (and gals) just undock and go make FW what you want from it, stop yer whinging and go do it FFS





:end of rant:

Last I checked, Federation Navy Antimatter was cheaper than Caldari Navy Antimatter in Jita. Times are changing.

And I think you underestimate the exploit-solving skills of its playerbase.

As much as we can dream that PvP would be the ultimate income stream in FW, the bottom line is there are limits to how high a kill payout can reasonably go without causing problems, and even at those maximums it will never be enough revenue to satisfy those that participate primarily in gang or fleet warfare. Solo PvP-ers on the other hand have reported much more satisfying payouts from their kills, enough to sustain regular losses if one is skilled enough.

We could arbitrarily scale all the PvE-related payouts back so they are less than the PvP payouts, but at that point the rewards are so low we might as well have not implemented them in the first place. Many of us remember FW back when there was no reward or consequence for plexing, and how many fights one could find in a plex. I'm not hearing a lot of "lets go back to the old days" except from the trolling subset which has never really changed their message with regards to current warzone reality.

I'm just not one of those that believe in shaping the game design to fit arbitrary "PvP, not PvE" memes if the result would harm the increased activity levels we've all been enjoying in recent months. Having an abundance of PvP as well as a reliable income stream is much more important than having the income stream come from the PvP directly.

And I think you underestimate the exploit-solving skills of its playerbase.

As much as we can dream that PvP would be the ultimate income stream in FW, the bottom line is there are limits to how high a kill payout can reasonably go without causing problems, and even at those maximums it will never be enough revenue to satisfy those that participate primarily in gang or fleet warfare. Solo PvP-ers on the other hand have reported much more satisfying payouts from their kills, enough to sustain regular losses if one is skilled enough.

We could arbitrarily scale all the PvE-related payouts back so they are less than the PvP payouts, but at that point the rewards are so low we might as well have not implemented them in the first place. Many of us remember FW back when there was no reward or consequence for plexing, and how many fights one could find in a plex. I'm not hearing a lot of "lets go back to the old days" except from the trolling subset which has never really changed their message with regards to current warzone reality.

I'm just not one of those that believe in shaping the game design to fit arbitrary "PvP, not PvE" memes if the result would harm the increased activity levels we've all been enjoying in recent months. Having an abundance of PvP as well as a reliable income stream is much more important than having the income stream come from the PvP directly.

I guess you're right. But at the same time, my statement still holds true. There are tons of players in FW currently that don't want any part in PvP whatsoever and are there to just orbit the button for rewards.

Can't be right like this either.

Also has more posts than login hours.

It's always been cheaper and honestly the only reason I have ever used CNAM was because of the lack of FNAM on market.

I see there are now more gallente and minmatar than caldari. Anyone who denies what I posted above is just ignoring the actual data.

It's not always been cheaper. The opposite's usually true.

Check the year-long market history of Navy Antimatter in Jita, and that's just the last year.



Current FW stats haven't updated to reflect the fact that Ev0ke just joined the Caldari militia, bringing roughly 750 more pilots into the ranks of the squids.