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Lesson 1 and only: How to avoid Theft of ore

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Hulredi	Posted - 2005.06.03 21:08:00 - [1] OK this is been kinda driving me nuts so I thought I would post a few recommendations on how to avoid ore thieves. 1) Use bookmarks- this is key to reducing the amount of ore that will get stolen if an ore thief is after your ore. a) insta docks b) insta pick-ups 2) Keep an eye on local and if you notice ore thieves in local start hauling out your stuff. a) Every ore thief you find add them to your addressbook and when you see green in local you dont know pack it in and go do something else b) Set ore thieves to -10 standing so they appear as red when you see them in the system c) I recommend blocking them as sometimes (not always) ore thieves love to smacktalk 3) Move to quieter systems. Not only will you avoid ore thieves you will also get better results in your mining. There is over 6000 systems in EVE I am sure you can find a fairly secure system that is 2-3 jumps off the highways and away from the thieves. I in no way endore or condemm ore thieves as it is considered a occupation. I thought I would post this for people to consider and read. Cheers, Hulredi Coreli Corporation Core Logistics My Ore Thief Avoidance thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=187332
Marruni	Posted - 2005.06.03 21:23:00 - [2] Not another post with the two words i hate the most.. Ore and Theft
pshepherd	Posted - 2005.06.03 21:26:00 - [3] ore thieves are funny to read about
MutationZ	Posted - 2005.06.03 21:40:00 - [4] Nice common sense tactics. If everybody did this it would cut the cries of "omg thiefz0r" in local.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2005.06.03 21:45:00 - [5] How to Avoid Ore Thieft in one simple step: 1) DO NOT USE JET CANS _____
Hulredi	Posted - 2005.06.03 21:45:00 - [6] If there is any other tactics that I have not listed here please post them and I will add them to the list Hulredi Coreli Corporation Core Logistics My Ore Thief Avoidance thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=187332
Reah	Posted - 2005.06.03 23:43:00 - [7] Edited by: Reah on 03/06/2005 23:43:26 0.4 sec rating system warp disruptor + drones :D
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.06.04 13:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Hulredi OK this is been kinda driving me nuts so I thought I would post a few recommendations on how to avoid ore thieves. 1) Use bookmarks- this is key to reducing the amount of ore that will get stolen if an ore thief is after your ore. a) insta docks b) insta pick-ups 2) Keep an eye on local and if you notice ore thieves in local start hauling out your stuff. a) Every ore thief you find add them to your addressbook and when you see green in local you dont know pack it in and go do something else b) Set ore thieves to -10 standing so they appear as red when you see them in the system c) I recommend blocking them as sometimes (not always) ore thieves love to smacktalk 3) Move to quieter systems. Not only will you avoid ore thieves you will also get better results in your mining. There is over 6000 systems in EVE I am sure you can find a fairly secure system that is 2-3 jumps off the highways and away from the thieves. I in no way endore or condemm ore thieves as it is considered a occupation. I thought I would post this for people to consider and read. Cheers, I've yet to see an ore thief start the smacktalk. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"
Seto Mazzarotto	Posted - 2005.06.04 13:16:00 - [9] Originally by: dantes inferno How to Avoid Ore Thieft in one simple step: 1) DO NOT USE JET CANS It's better than hearing about the guy who left an unmanned indy next to his mining ship and mined into that. You can imagine what happened. But yeah, good post. The best defense is to look for systems that are classed as 'out of the way' and keep your head up. ----------- Fighting for the ideals of freespace, posthuman ethics, and rock & roll.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.06.04 15:18:00 - [10] How about just not using jetcans? Also, ore thieves nearly never smack. I personally have never seen an ore thief smack in my life. Its always the miners, not the thieves, who smack and complain. -- The best description of alliances, ever:

Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.06.04 15:29:00 - [11] Simple greed, ignorance, lazyness and stupidity will keep miners from taking measures to prevent ore theft. Sadly CCP can't help them with solving those problems, and I don't think they should mutilate this game so it suits the needs of these types of players. Ore thieves are the games punishment for jetcan mining. Simple as that.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2005.06.04 19:31:00 - [12] "It's better than hearing about the guy who left an unmanned indy next to his mining ship and mined into that. You can imagine what happened." must of been some thieves lucky day, not only free ore but a complementry hauler to boot _____
MadGaz	Posted - 2005.06.04 22:28:00 - [13] Doesn't belong in this forum. ------------------------------------------
Sweetpain	Posted - 2005.06.06 02:36:00 - [14] Stop mining become one, there now it belong to this forum. where there is more thieves then miners thives will go away, so will producers due to lack of minerasl, then pirates will go due to lack of ships, then at last wehn we are all Thieves, we can jettison what we have stolen and let other steal it so they can do the same so we can steal it back.
Khrystoff	Posted - 2005.06.06 02:38:00 - [15] everyone loves a good doomsday prediction but they never come to fruition. and bonus points for sarcasm
OffBeaT	Posted - 2005.06.07 00:53:00 - [16] hehe.. i use too rename my cans in the past so they said the same thing that my locked can's said next too them. most ore theifs are noobs and they see the real cans but think they where all the same cans. it actully worked better then i thought it would.
Pondor Stibbons	Posted - 2005.06.07 11:57:00 - [17] jetcan mining...... foolish...... Like leaving a mobile phone on the passenger seat of a car while it's empty.... broken window anyone?
Hulredi	Posted - 2005.06.07 15:41:00 - [18] added OffBeaT's comment about renaming cans Hulredi Coreli Corporation Core Logistics My Ore Thief Avoidance thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=187332
Badshah	Posted - 2005.06.07 17:55:00 - [19] Oops! My mistake, sorry for the confusion... I checked the megathron and to my disappointment it has only 7 turrets, and one additional hi-slot. I am nt sure now whether it is worth switching from a Tempest to a Mega for one additional mining laser... Just me, Bad
Hulredi	Posted - 2005.06.07 18:26:00 - [20] Edited by: Hulredi on 07/06/2005 18:27:26 Originally by: Pondor Stibbons jetcan mining...... foolish...... Like leaving a mobile phone on the passenger seat of a car while it's empty.... broken window anyone? You know I Jet mined for 3 months daily and I used most of the tactics listed in this post and my ore was only stolen once. So these tactics do work. Anyway, please post any tactics you use to avoid or prevent ore theft. Hulredi Coreli Corporation Core Logistics My Ore Thief Avoidance thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=187332

Rastilin	Posted - 2005.06.09 23:38:00 - [21] I agree nice post One other thing u can do is to make a bunch of false cans around the one your mining into say like 10 and put 1unit of ore in each or whatever you fancy. That will deter a ore thief cause who wants to spend there time looting cans with 1 unit of ore
Dracorimus	Posted - 2005.06.10 13:41:00 - [22] heheh good stuff, but I think I forgot how to mine in empire It's been a while...0.0 mining FTW - -
Hulredi	Posted - 2005.06.10 14:54:00 - [23] Added Rastilin's comments. Hulredi Coreli Corporation Core Logistics My Ore Thief Avoidance thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=187332
AuroraStar	Posted - 2005.06.11 06:16:00 - [24] Edited by: AuroraStar on 11/06/2005 06:16:59 Originally by: Dark Shikari How about just not using jetcans? Theres your answer. All time obvious post award gos to the OP.
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.06.11 13:11:00 - [25] tank a rat spawn in 0.5 to 0.7 while mining, if orethief approaches when he is within 5k, warp out let him play with the rats for a bit and earn his stolen ore not a garrunteed tactic, but is fun none the less (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.06.11 16:33:00 - [26] Originally by: babylonstew tank a rat spawn in 0.5 to 0.7 while mining, if orethief approaches when he is within 5k, warp out let him play with the rats for a bit and earn his stolen ore not a garrunteed tactic, but is fun none the less My IT3 does a total of about 120 damage with its smartbombs and has an AB. Burn for the can, if an NPC gets in range, BOOM BOOM BOOM. For the cruiser, shield rechargers 4tw. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"
Big doggy	Posted - 2005.06.14 22:49:00 - [27] Why didn't someone do this before? This is a nice idea although all your ores tehy be mine. HAHHAAHAhahahaaha
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.06.15 15:23:00 - [28] Lesson 1 and only to avoid ore theft: Step 1: Don't jet can mine
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.06.16 08:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Dionysus Davinci Lesson 1 and only to avoid ore theft: Step 1: Don't jet can mine Step 2: Dont Mine..... ever Typherin Care Negotitation Expert level 5 Originally by: Eris Discordia gives Typherin some loving
Lady Hazel	Posted - 2005.06.20 18:18:00 - [30] Very nice post, and some very good ideas. I mine in my Retriever, and instas are a very good idea when mining/hauling alone. From my experience, most ore thieves tend to stay around 1.0-0.8 since most are n00bs. So, I just go to a 0.6 system or so and use my drones to fight off the rats. 8 light drones work great. All your base are belong to us.

Eojek	Posted - 2005.06.21 02:22:00 - [31] Keep a spare suiside vessel handy. I suggest one or two friggates fitted with gankware, (jammers/webbifiers) and simply kill the thieving bastards. If you can pod them in under 24 seconds, you may take a security hit, but you'll earn it back later. Also, bountys are pointless. A friend can pod someone, collect the bounty, and then both split the profits from the Concord chump-change. Hire a trustworthy: LMAO: merc and ask for lots of physical evidence they did the deed.
PsyBoRG	Posted - 2005.06.21 05:32:00 - [32] not using time stamped cans is a very good idea to i know when i go for some lowsec hunting its one of the goodies i look for on my scanner IE naming ur cargo container 07:34 http://www.snigg.cjb.net/ removed siggy as a part of the all important moderation
Hulredi	Posted - 2005.06.21 16:11:00 - [33] Edited by: Hulredi on 21/06/2005 16:11:34 added PsyBoRG stuff Hulredi Ore Avoidance Thread
EXZODIER	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:51:00 - [34] OK lets get this set JET CANS were ment to dispose of your rubbish that u did not want in cargo -- mineing to these was never intended but hey people used it - they then lost ORE to so called Theife's (THEY AINT STEALING THERE CLEANING UP RUBBISH) CCP installed Secure cans - OK THEY GOT EVERYWHERE - ccp then stoped u sueing them in 1.0-0.9 space OK this space is ment for noob types not peope strip mining - u want to mine in empire do it in the less secure areas of space -- CCP just stop people jettisoning stuff into these cans - they want to complain coz on a technical point there EXPLOITINING (cans were never ment for that use) then just take them out and let all the noobies who use it suffer -
Booster Terrick	Posted - 2005.06.25 05:16:00 - [35] Edited by: Booster Terrick on 25/06/2005 05:20:14 I see this all the time..."opportunists" trying to justify their actions by calling ore theft something like "picking up rubbish". The fact is, people mine into "jet" cans because it is convenient ( I.E. they are FAR larger than any can that can be purchased), regardless of the original reason for "jet" cans being used, like getting rid of unwanted cargo. Ore thieves are just that...THIEVES. They didn't mine for it, it isn't theirs, simple as that. Thieves, stop trying to bullsh*t yer way thru your choice of a "profession", it's already as lame as it can get. As for how to avoid them, that's simple too...If alone, mine only enough to fill a hauler in one trip, mine a little more into the hold of your barge / frigate / cruiser etc. dock and switch ships, then go back and get what's left. It guarantees you won't get ripped off for hours worth of ore, kinda like saving your game often and at key places so you don't lose much if something catastrophic happens. Also, many of the already listed tactics like moving to off-the-beaten-track systems, renaming cans, and using bookmarks for positions in the belts and to the station work very well. For rats in lower security systems, use medium drones like hammerheads or vespas that pack a good punch, but remember to pull them in when the fight's over or you might leave them by accident. Mark any known ore thief by adding them to your addressbook in a folder marked as such, and keep checking "local" chat to see who's around. Pull up stakes and move on if thieves find you or persist in making your mining hole their own little playground. Lastly, don't bother talking to or complaining to "ore thieves", as this only adds to their level of twisted enjoyment and won't get your ore back anyway...chalk it up as a learning experience and find less-populated systems away from the "hubs" to mine in.
PsyBoRG	Posted - 2005.06.28 00:09:00 - [36] tbh booster ur very wrong there imo they are not stealing anything if they where doing so im sure the would be commiting a crime there for get a sec rating hit and get flagged for 15 minutes and if they do it in high sec get ganked by concord like i do if i commit a crime which i aparently do quite often oh well lets just call them "the garbage men and women of eve" http://www.snigg.cjb.net/
Luance DeAngeluotti	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:37:00 - [37] As an addition to Number 4: If you have someone haul for you be sure that he scoops up the ore dropped into the jetcan as soon as possible or keep it in your cargo hold as long as possible. Background: Yesterday evening I was mining with a corpmate in Oursulaert (ore thief haven). I in my medium Barge and he was hauling in his Iteron. His hold was not full yet and he and I sat side by side at the jetcan, me dropping ore into the jetcan and telling him to pick it up. "One moment, I just wait till it is enough to completely fill my cargo-hold". I had my screen filled with chat windows (that is why I am mining, to be able to chat and still have the sense to do smthg useful ) so I did not see that hauler approaching. Then the ore thief rammed us and took the ore out of the can WHILE WE WERE BOTH SITTING RIGHT BESIDE THE SAME CAN. Nice stunt. And totally avoidable from our side We are recruiting! --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Hulredi	Posted - 2005.06.28 14:44:00 - [38] Edited by: Hulredi on 28/06/2005 14:47:34 Originally by: PsyBoRG ... oh well lets just call them "the garbage men and women of eve" LOL I like this quote but lets be politically correct they are sanitary enginners Anyways back on topic thanks for all your comments and praises Hulredi Ore Avoidance Thread
muriel	Posted - 2005.06.28 14:58:00 - [39] Edited by: muriel on 28/06/2005 15:00:55 thinks todays secure cargo containers is to smal they are outdated. why they are outdated. when i started there was not so many bs flying in space and we did not have mining barges. let us get bigger secure cans who is usfull for corp mining todays secure cans is just a joke. a bad joke.
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2005.06.28 17:13:00 - [40] The best lesson to learn is not to solo mine. all you need is one pilot with a hauler, two-three pilots minning will keep him busy for hours. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box and from this site.

Lumelame	Posted - 2005.06.30 10:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Luance DeAngeluotti "One moment, I just wait till it is enough to completely fill my cargo-hold". I had my screen filled with chat windows (that is why I am mining, to be able to chat and still have the sense to do smthg useful ) so I did not see that hauler approaching. Then the ore thief rammed us and took the ore out of the can WHILE WE WERE BOTH SITTING RIGHT BESIDE THE SAME CAN. Can this point be considered as an Exploit ?? What's the position of CCP on these particular situation as it's impossible to transfer directly to the cargo of an insustrial ??
altino	Posted - 2005.07.11 15:40:00 - [42] Then the ore thief rammed us and took the ore out of the can WHILE WE WERE BOTH SITTING RIGHT BESIDE THE SAME CAN. Make a hit list and get the bastards later when they don't expect it
Ravenhand	Posted - 2005.07.18 20:03:00 - [43] IMO there are a couple of ways to elevate this problem. 1.(I agree with previous post) Make secure containers lager capacity. Currently Giant Secure containers hold 3900m3 make them (for augments sake) 4500m3. The only down side to this is it will through the cargo capacity of haulers out of balance. Maybe they could make a ôSecure Ore Containerö the volume of the container could be such that only one could be carried by a med hauler or just one per hauler, make it (again for augments sake) 25000m3 (see 2)capacity. And can only hold ore. 2.Why are jet cans so larger? Make the capacity smaller say 15000m3. 3.Make all containers, from giant secure containers on down with a life span. Lets say 30 days, this would make the people that use them for advertising have to continually replace them. This would have a positive affect of cleaning up the systems. What say you all Ravenhand
ToLate	Posted - 2005.08.01 16:16:00 - [44] Mine in a BS. Put out a bunch of cans.Tank a group of rats. Let the thief come in. Warp out just as he gets into your can farm. Let the rats kill him. Return and take HIS can.
Pagefault	Posted - 2005.08.03 16:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Ravenhand IMO there are a couple of ways to elevate this problem. 2.Why are jet cans so larger? Make the capacity smaller say 15000m3. Because they must hold everything, that is inside your ship, when u get blown up...
Camord	Posted - 2005.08.03 23:09:00 - [46] It's simply stupid that you can't defend yourself from ore thieves... I'm outta this game because of this! Got killed trying to prevent a theft! Makes absolutely no sense! I guess I'll go to CCP headquarters, steal their comps and see if they defend or not! lol soooo stupid... sooo stupid...
Blydchyld	Posted - 2005.08.04 15:14:00 - [47] Edited by: Blydchyld on 04/08/2005 15:14:27 Originally by: Camord I guess I'll go to CCP headquarters, steal their comps and see if they defend or not! lol soooo stupid... sooo stupid... You do of course realise it is against international law to threaten someone over the net? If CCP decide to they can take you to court in Iceland, Might wanna check if your country allows extradition orders to Iceland or if they dont, check to see if they extradite to within the EU. So yes i agree, You are 'soooo stupid... sooo stupid...' BTW when you leave, send me all your ISK and escrow all your items to ign: blydchyld Edit: Checked applicable laws. ------------------------------------------------ I want you to be a fish.
Brundle Fish	Posted - 2005.08.04 16:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Camord It's simply stupid that you can't defend yourself from ore thieves... I'm outta this game because of this! Got killed trying to prevent a theft! Makes absolutely no sense! I guess I'll go to CCP headquarters, steal their comps and see if they defend or not! lol soooo stupid... sooo stupid... The only way its possible to steal ore in Eve is when its in a your station and then only by corp mates that have access. So you can defend against it by not giving people access.
Karpell Tunell	Posted - 2005.08.04 17:00:00 - [49] I can't believe the number of people don't consider ore thieves to be "thieves". Its shocking! These are the same low lifes who would steal a bicycle from your back yard and attempt to rationalize it as not stealing because you didn't lock it up. If you have no morals in-game theres a better than even chance you lack the morals in rl as well. Shame on you!
Brundle Fish	Posted - 2005.08.04 17:10:00 - [50] The devs said its not stealing. Its thier game so until they tell me your in charge i will go with what they say.

Karpell Tunell	Posted - 2005.08.05 16:47:00 - [51] Edited by: Karpell Tunell on 05/08/2005 16:48:34 /sigh. I know instinctively the difference between whats right and wrong. Its unfortunate that some people need to ask others. For reference, where is the statement from the devs that its ok to steal from others? I'd like to see if there is a specific rational behind it.
Brundle Fish	Posted - 2005.08.05 20:23:00 - [52] http://support.eve-online.com/cgi-bin/eve_online.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=520
Sgt Spiff	Posted - 2005.08.06 22:04:00 - [53] Originally by: Booster Terrick Edited by: Booster Terrick on 25/06/2005 05:20:14 I see this all the time..."opportunists" trying to justify their actions by calling ore theft something like "picking up rubbish". The fact is, people mine into "jet" cans because it is convenient ( I.E. they are FAR larger than any can that can be purchased), regardless of the original reason for "jet" cans being used, like getting rid of unwanted cargo. Ore thieves are just that...THIEVES. They didn't mine for it, it isn't theirs, simple as that. Thieves, stop trying to bullsh*t yer way thru your choice of a "profession", it's already as lame as it can get. As for how to avoid them, that's simple too...If alone, mine only enough to fill a hauler in one trip, mine a little more into the hold of your barge / frigate / cruiser etc. dock and switch ships, then go back and get what's left. It guarantees you won't get ripped off for hours worth of ore, kinda like saving your game often and at key places so you don't lose much if something catastrophic happens. Also, many of the already listed tactics like moving to off-the-beaten-track systems, renaming cans, and using bookmarks for positions in the belts and to the station work very well. For rats in lower security systems, use medium drones like hammerheads or vespas that pack a good punch, but remember to pull them in when the fight's over or you might leave them by accident. Mark any known ore thief by adding them to your addressbook in a folder marked as such, and keep checking "local" chat to see who's around. Pull up stakes and move on if thieves find you or persist in making your mining hole their own little playground. Lastly, don't bother talking to or complaining to "ore thieves", as this only adds to their level of twisted enjoyment and won't get your ore back anyway...chalk it up as a learning experience and find less-populated systems away from the "hubs" to mine in. ok now ore thiefs are thieving. I can agree with you on that, however, the people they take from are really stupid. Using un-secured cans in space just mining into them and hoping an ore thief never gets them, thats like not fastening your seat belt and saying, "Im never gonna get into a car accident." if no-one steals your ore, then good for you. if someone does its YOUR FAULT.
Fenrir Greyback	Posted - 2005.08.07 00:49:00 - [54] lol these tips are all useless i use to play this game when it first came out even before secured containers came out. And I use to be the biggest ore thief around. but i'll tell you guys some of the tricks I use to used.(just started playing the game agian trying make be a legit guy with no thiefing) Tip 1: Check every container to see if it has a password on it or not. Tip 2: Smaktalk is a must if you can get the person talking(it distracts them from taking the ore from the containers to any station so that theres less for you to take. and always enjoyable sometimes[Makes the game more interesting]) Tip 3: If your into check every asteroid belt in the system if it's a populated one once or twice. Tip 4: always check every can unless theres like 10 or more then theres no point unless it's in deep space and the pay off would be bigger then the risks. Tip 5: Always use industrail ships with mwd and jammers if in a low sec so they can't warp scramble you and kill you. thats all i can think of for that i use to use. hope this helps out some people who are thinking about doing it PS always check the forums about ore thiefing you'll get great tips on how your victim will try and trick you into not stealing anything from him/or her.
Talons	Posted - 2005.08.08 16:08:00 - [55] Edited by: Talons on 08/08/2005 16:08:43 Edited by: Talons on 08/08/2005 16:08:21 It is very simple to avoid the 'Ore Thief'. Just mine < 0.5 space and if they show up, Kill them! Talons, CEO - Two Brothers Mining Corporation (TBMC)
Amonsun	Posted - 2005.08.08 17:49:00 - [56] I only read part of this thread but I didnt see this listed yet. If your ore is taken simply note their names and spread it to your friends. Don't speak to the thief say nothing just continue about your business, don't give them the pleasure of knowing that they have bothered you in any way what so ever. This works for me and my crew.
kingsize	Posted - 2005.08.09 20:31:00 - [57] 2 years and hundreds of millions of isk and I really can't be bothered with this painfully expensive, slow paced, entirely biased game. Really, issues like this are just an example of why I can't be bothered anymore. I'd rather spend ú20 on a new game every few months. Don't wait around for space sovereignty because it isnÆt going to happen for a long long time. POS were supposed to be player owned stations not crappy structures. As soon as you're in a group that do too well, CCP will change the rules. Each patch does stupid things like make you learn a new set of skills for something you had already e.g. trade skills. The internal markets are exploited and pathetic - there was so much scope here but it was wasted because of not enough thought into it. Ship and module "tweaking" is the bane of every long-standing players life. Moving around "eve" is far too slow to be enjoyable. Really ask yourself - is it fun or boring? I can't be bothered to pay your wages anymore.
Xephie	Posted - 2005.08.15 02:25:00 - [58] you know what works for me is minning in 0.4 or lower and keeping a pvp ship or ships at a SS or at a pos... then when you get some anoying ore theif just blast this **** out of them... or have your friend do it for you... you know it makes a nice trap for some greedy people
Theoryon	Posted - 2005.08.15 11:42:00 - [59] Get a Coveter mining Barge and mine in 0.5 space. The 4,000 m3 cargospace is just like your own personal secure container. Useing insta's will make it almost as fast as if you were mining into a can. Also, with the coveter ming barge and skills, it'll take you at least 6 mins to fill your cargo hold; which is partially handy for Russian Roulette (0.4 or less) mining.
Hulredi	Posted - 2005.08.17 16:41:00 - [60] Edited by: Hulredi on 17/08/2005 16:41:06 Brundle Fish mentioned this link which describes CCP's stance on ore theft Ore Theft Stance Any everyone this is information on how to avoid ore thief. If you want to dicuss the moral implications of ore theft there is tons of threads on that. If you want complain that CCP isnt doing anything about it, sorry to say to bad as the link above decribes how they feel about it and what they are doing about it. Please please keep this on topic as I have done alot of work on this thread and alot of people have contributed to the information here,I dont want something bad to happen to it as I feel it is an excellent resource for miners and ore thiefs alike. Hulredi Ore Theft Avoidance Thread

anthonieak	Posted - 2005.08.22 12:01:00 - [61] Edited by: anthonieak on 22/08/2005 12:01:33 All nice issues, but does it really help? No it does not you still have that grieve and you can not do nothing about. I have been mining for 18 months, could jettison my cans had aroud 4 till 7 cans laying around me. All the refined ore that i sold i helped other corpmates. Then in new patch you have secure cans. 3900 m3 at the most. Only a corvetor with modulated miners and 10 mining drones. Mines 3396 m3 every 3 minutes and the drones mine 540 m3 in that 3 minutes. The secure cans are totaly worthles too an expert miner. He have too take 30 till 50 cans too every belt too mine properly. As every can then also cost 200.000 minimum it is totally worthless. At first a took ore mining thieve for granted. I thought i lose 1 can for every ore I mined. But grieve stays. So I do missions lvl 3 now instead. And mine only if there is hauling service in our corp. The expert lonely miner in empire is dying, every day you get confronted with 1 till 7 day old characters that are only after your ore. And with all measures you can do nothing about it. And all with ore thieve says it is only a game. AK Missions lvl3 agent of 9.99 *********************************************** Miner Addicted Corvetor Modulated Miner Veldspar crystals II Mining drones lvl 5 10 mining drones too work
Celia Azur	Posted - 2005.08.23 10:36:00 - [62] Perhaps when an ore thief approaches just highlight all the ore in your can and drag it out of the can but not into anything else. That way the can does not go anywhere and you can just wait until the silly sap moves on.
Arden Finch	Posted - 2005.08.24 17:38:00 - [63] Looks like CCP is starting to do something against ore theft. Just read the following in the patch notes (in testing bit): Quote: Criminal flag pilots that take from jettisoned cans which don't belong to them This is needed to allow the owner of the can to shoot the one taking from his own jettisoned can and to allow the owner to shoot anyone taking from the loot cans which drop from the NPC's the owner destroyed. This does NOT include a CONCORD response, only enables the owner to shoot without getting CONCORDOKENED himself. Could be applied to agent missions too, registering jettisoned containers to the mission owner.
Ricdic	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:03:00 - [64] My corp are mass miners. This may surprise some, but i would love to see jettison cans removed from the game. Or at least make it impossible to mine into a jettison can. Why?? Because, the mining profession would almost become void. Mineral prices would quadruple, and the market would fall. My mass mining corp would organise alternate means using the current giant secure containers, and make a fortune due to the mass inflation of mineral prices. Do Pvp'rs want to buy their apoc for 400 million isk?? Because that is precisely what will happen if they are removed. CCP are too busy helping the pvpr's and 0.0 crew, and leave the empire workers behind. Without us, Eve fails. Hopefully CCP might realise this one day. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html
Wulfstan	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:44:00 - [65] Edited by: Wulfstan on 26/08/2005 18:45:47 If you have a turret mount weapon or missiles, blast your can to within an inch of it's life, and keep it targetted. Then if it's about to get nabbed by an ore thief, you can blast it to bits in seconds so at least you deny the ore thief the pleasure of nicking your hard earned loot!
Max DeathWish	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:29:00 - [66] Originally by: PsyBoRG tbh booster ur very wrong there imo they are not stealing anything if they where doing so im sure the would be commiting a crime there for get a sec rating hit and get flagged for 15 minutes and if they do it in high sec get ganked by concord like i do if i commit a crime which i aparently do quite often oh well lets just call them "the garbage men and women of eve" Yer "logic" be obsolete, m8 - read the "In Testing" section of EVE Insider (under "Patch Notes"). Coming soon, to an Empire near you: CONCORD will no longer swoop in to defend the courageous "garbage men" - in fact, members of this "profession" will now be officially flagged as the thieves they are, and will be fair game for their victims. Max DeathWish.
Abdicator	Posted - 2005.08.30 09:14:00 - [67] You can also simply call OTR, we specialise in empire termination of ore theives and offer a fast, descreet service at very reasonable rates, and we return all ore recovered. Join Channel OTR Contracts or contact myself or OTsBane.
Slater Dogstar	Posted - 2005.09.01 19:44:00 - [68] mine with a friend you mine into a giant secure container whilel your friend suts next to it in a hauler constanly emptying it. When hes fulll insta warp dock at a station unlload then insta warp back to the can before its full and the miners has to stop mining works for me. Every Time You Use A Warp Stab Ovyer Kills A Puppy!!!
Sweety Redmouse	Posted - 2005.09.06 21:19:00 - [69] Set ore thiefs standing to -10.0 When you find him in a low sec. area, blow him up, then remind him why you did it. If you see him again later, blow him up again for good measure. If they are adding a criminal tag to people who open labelled or flagged jcans later, then whats better... Ore thief can loot and scoot, hoping to get out before you nail him... but at least you get your chance in obliterating the lazy, little scumball so he wont do it again.
JoeT	Posted - 2005.09.08 06:39:00 - [70] hmm Ore thiefs... i dont do it. Here are my rules [personal ones mind you] Jetted cans: stuff they dont want [nothing wrong if it is a jetted can overall] Use Secure cans for best proection I will take jetted cans and cargo after i blow up your ship [cause they cant use it at that point] thats pretty much it. I only take ore if i pop your ship :) fair? murder murder, yes indeed, K-I-L-L-I-N-G

Praetor Novak	Posted - 2005.09.09 15:44:00 - [71] Here is a novel technique to use on ore thieves: Keep a ship scanner mounted and maybe a cargo scanner. The ore thieves sometimes have interesting/valuable modules mounted and/or something other than stolen ore in their cargo hold of some significant value. Scanning their cargo also allows you to see how successful they have been on this run. If you are in a busy system with lots of people, just make an announcement in the local channel to everyone that some sack and grab crew can get say for example: a "Improved Cloaking device II" for FREE in Belt VII-6 from said ore thief... They will generally be very angry and warp away to the safety of a station. I use a hauler 99% of the time. We only use the jet cans to transfer the ore. There is never any ore to steal, just a jet can with a round of lead hybrid ammo in it (keeps the can open while allowing the hauler to quickly grab the ore). Praetor Novak - CEO
Miss Eliot	Posted - 2005.09.10 11:20:00 - [72] Well, the best thing to prevent ore thiefes is to know them! Second, don't mine to long into cans. I, for example, mine with two accounts, make one ore two cans full (takes around half an hour) and then haul it back with one char (takes around 10 mins with 1 char still mining and one char hauling). Such way you will never ever lose more than half an hour of work and this ore thief (mark him in your adressbook) will not steal from you any more as you know him now and can haul back your cans when he shows up in local. And when some of you say: Don't mine into jettsoned cans ... well i guess your math is not the best: example 1: 1 miner, 1 hauler, secure can. You will never ever lose ore but will always have only the amount of 1 mining char. example 2: method as described above. 2 chars mining nearly all the time. When 2 cans are full, 1 will still mine, the other haul back the ore. Your mining amount has now nearly be doubled. Lets say every 10th can will be stolen ... which way is more profitable? In fact, every second can could be stolen and you would still make the same profit as in example 1. and when you mine alone ... well, if you only use a few secure cans(and more makes no sense), you will haul most time ... so your amount compared with jettson can mining will be even worse!
Xenios Alfar	Posted - 2005.09.14 18:44:00 - [73] To be quite honest you are talking as if this has any effect on real life. although we do pay for EVE it is stil a 'Role-Playing' game so they idea is to take on a role and play as it, to what extent of role-playing this is is up to the person but if they choose to take on the role of a thief it is their choice and instead of moaning about it find them and destroy them for ever damaging your profit. Many people take this game FAR to seriously and need to wind down a bit, you have all been comparing ore theifs to people who would steal your bike but why not compare pirates to murderers or rapists.. because it is an aspect of the game. CCP i think in my opinion wanted to create a living breathing world much liek a real one where anything is possible within the boudns of the game if peopel choose to play a Bad guy then that is their choice and just because they steal in game doesnt mean they do it in real life. i would certainly rather someone attempt to theive from me in EVE than steal my computer at home. so please stop comparing EVE to real life as it is meant to seem realistic in this sense. ore thiefs in the end are just making money their own way, just because it is not the 'Good And Decent' thing to do does not make it wrong. I love role-playing a pirate and have often role-played with my victim and they thoroughly enjoyed it some have said. a lot of people wish people would play in character more. thats my 2 cents. now y'all stop arguing bout who took your ore and go pod them! especialy with the new flagging for opening someoen elses can and taking its a lot easier <3 thankyou CCP many a orethief has already fallen!! Rawr!! ------------------
Swanny231	Posted - 2005.09.15 14:48:00 - [74] Originally by: Xenios Alfar To be quite honest you are talking as if this has any effect on real life. although we do pay for EVE it is stil a 'Role-Playing' game so they idea is to take on a role and play as it, to what extent of role-playing this is is up to the person but if they choose to take on the role of a thief it is their choice and instead of moaning about it find them and destroy them for ever damaging your profit. Many people take this game FAR to seriously and need to wind down a bit, you have all been comparing ore theifs to people who would steal your bike but why not compare pirates to murderers or rapists.. because it is an aspect of the game. CCP i think in my opinion wanted to create a living breathing world much liek a real one where anything is possible within the boudns of the game if peopel choose to play a Bad guy then that is their choice and just because they steal in game doesnt mean they do it in real life. i would certainly rather someone attempt to theive from me in EVE than steal my computer at home. so please stop comparing EVE to real life as it is meant to seem realistic in this sense. ore thiefs in the end are just making money their own way, just because it is not the 'Good And Decent' thing to do does not make it wrong. I love role-playing a pirate and have often role-played with my victim and they thoroughly enjoyed it some have said. a lot of people wish people would play in character more. thats my 2 cents. now y'all stop arguing bout who took your ore and go pod them! especialy with the new flagging for opening someoen elses can and taking its a lot easier <3 thankyou CCP many a orethief has already fallen!! Rawr!!
Xenios Alfar	Posted - 2005.09.15 15:07:00 - [75] hahahaha Ownt by the pirate Fairies!!!! ------------------
Eomar	Posted - 2005.09.19 05:48:00 - [76] seems to me the best thing to do is play the ore thieves at thier own game (that is beng a bunch of ****s.) Do what they say, dont mine into jet cans. instead only mine into your hold and haul it back. Because itll now take you 10x as long to mine minerals you should then sell your minerals at the apropriate value. 30isk a unt for trit sounds reasonable to me. Of course the knock on effects will be tremendous - Thieves will be out of buisness. But as the cost of ships will be through the roof they wont be able to afford to do much.
Lord WarATron	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:24:00 - [77] Originally by: JoeT hmm Ore thiefs... i dont do it. Here are my rules [personal ones mind you] Jetted cans: stuff they dont want [nothing wrong if it is a jetted can overall] Use Secure cans for best proection I will take jetted cans and cargo after i blow up your ship [cause they cant use it at that point] thats pretty much it. I only take ore if i pop your ship :) fair? Well JoeT, its the funny world we live in. Steal a can of ore and the anger is beyond beleif! The community boils! Kill the miner first and then steal there ore then nobody cares less. Personally, I always bring a hauler around, or just mine in a quite system. I find it sometimes safer to solomine in a 0.2 than in a 1.0 due to theives :)
Haram Zada	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:28:00 - [78] Originally by: Eomar seems to me the best thing to do is play the ore thieves at thier own game (that is beng a bunch of ****s.) Do what they say, dont mine into jet cans. instead only mine into your hold and haul it back. Because itll now take you 10x as long to mine minerals you should then sell your minerals at the apropriate value. 30isk a unt for trit sounds reasonable to me. Of course the knock on effects will be tremendous - Thieves will be out of buisness. But as the cost of ships will be through the roof they wont be able to afford to do much. Well, that would be true if it were not for the fact that the price of minerals can never go above the reprocessing value of what NPC's sell. Otherwise, people would buy shuttles from NPC's and recycle them, thus creating instant profit on the player market :) It was also this reason why Trit can never go above 4isk per unit.
Drayco	Posted - 2005.09.24 03:14:00 - [79] The whole problem I've seen with players stealing ore. It's mainly lower class players IE rookie wanna-be pirates or players that just have no common sense. Which is in empire space and not much to really mine there. Jet'n a can is safe to do aslong as you watch your surroundings. keep an eye on local. Even if you get a thief running about 9 times out of 10 they are in a frigate and can't steal much anyway. Now the best place to mine where you don't have to worry about these problems is in 0.4 or lower... Someone you don't like comes near your mining op. Take'm out nuff said. There will always be a risk in everything you do in this game. I say to the pilots that hate ore pirates yanking their cans, "Deal with it. Learn where and when to mine with little problems."
Lady Ciella	Posted - 2005.09.28 04:55:00 - [80] Edited by: Lady Ciella on 28/09/2005 04:57:59 edit: Originally said I was not podded, not the case I jetcan mine in 0.4 for profit or highsec if I want base minerals. I've been ganked once (Raven > Prophecy) but I've never lost one ISK to a thief. Go figure.

Stephen HB	Posted - 2005.09.28 04:56:00 - [81] ARGH!! Bloody character order selector thingy. ^^3 day old experimental alt^^ --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?" Obi-Wan Kenobi
Shaitis	Posted - 2005.10.02 19:16:00 - [82] I'm not a miner but have to said one thing... I'm 2 months noob... and still remember that my second day of EVE life I went to belt and found 3-4 BS with couple mining barges mining in to containers. I was flying I guess kestrel or something. I found container with astronomic amount of ore... and I think that I'm so smart I took some. Lol never did it again - I'd like to sorry to this guys - that was stupid, but I didnt know lol that it was noobish. ;) Sorry again. It is stupid that U cant shoot to such guys as me then without Cflagging Shaitis
gojoIII	Posted - 2005.10.04 02:01:00 - [83] I have several alts, 3 i use to mine, one i use to guard and one to haul. i haul as fast as i fill a can and personally, i feel sorry for any ore thief, my gunner is also setup for antipirate-ing. he has a bit of a minus sec (from whomping pirates) so most people that warp in, warp back out. i dont have any termptation to use macros, i have too much invested in my setup. all tat said, i would arrange to haul as fast as it is mined to capacity of hauler, and yes, bokkmarks are key.
TheKiller8	Posted - 2005.10.09 12:59:00 - [84] Didn't see this one mentioned yet: If a thief seems to be creeping up on your can and there's no feasible way to haul the ore out before he gets it, you can chose to blow up the can. This ofcourse requires the can to be either yours or a corpmates (player corps only).
Anti Orethief	Posted - 2005.10.10 20:27:00 - [85] Nice Thread _________________________________________ http://antiorethief.forumup.org _________________________________________
captain kikaz	Posted - 2005.10.12 10:47:00 - [86] I'm sorry but this is stupid. If you are brainless enough to mine into an UNSECURE can then it is open season i'm afraid.I've made millions off ejets like you lot who do nothing but moan and don't take the hint to mine into a secure can and i will continue to do so until someone makes it against the game rules. It'sa game get a life or even better get a secure can
Ralius	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:13:00 - [87] Originally by: captain kikaz I'm sorry but this is stupid. If you are brainless enough to mine into an UNSECURE can then it is open season i'm afraid.I've made millions off ejets like you lot who do nothing but moan and don't take the hint to mine into a secure can and i will continue to do so until someone makes it against the game rules. It'sa game get a life or even better get a secure can I can only agree... Im a relative noob to this game tho I can say things have locks on them for a reason... aka to keep ppl out of em... while taking large quantities of ore or whatever from an unsecure can that is obviously being used as storage IS stealing.... it is still unsecure and therefor the users responsability not local authorities.
Mimio	Posted - 2005.10.19 09:44:00 - [88] 1. Flagging of thief is bad idea. a) It will lead to griefing of noobs b) Best miner will be something like cruiser, destroyer or bs c) Do we want to see Real Chineese Farming here? We will see it. Anybody played Lineage 2? I did and I do hate farming, botting and macrosing 2. Remember, when you drop something in real life, dropped thing does not belong to you. Anybody could pickup it and ignor you. 3. Use secure conts, organize your mining team well, do not be too greedy and ore thiefs will only vanishingly small threat to your business.
ERMIS	Posted - 2005.10.22 18:37:00 - [89] Originally by: MutationZ Nice common sense tactics. If everybody did this it would cut the cries of "omg thiefz0r" in local. Ok, i dont agree with the above cause these cries plus the name of the thief will warn others who might mine in the same system and take counter-measures as well.I have been helped by that a lot in the past. About the minning guide i have to add this: Mine in groups, i.e. one team miners and one team haulers. Me an my fellows in my corp arrange minning operations, we arange 4-5 miners (BSs BCs and Barges) and 3-4 haulers.By the rate we are minning (an entire belt dissapears in 3-4h) the other team is hauling all the time.We haul in jet cans due to the HUGE ammount of ore we produce.We all have instas so the haulers are next to the cans in no time and go back in station as fast as they come.This helps alot and we call "Ninja hauling".The only drawback might be that the hauling ships dont look towards the station they came from and the intdustrials need some secs more to turn their head towards it.If and only if a thief dares to come close we can stall him/them by pushing his ship away using ours and give more time for the haulers to work. Using this prcedure helps a lot plus we dont mind if we lose some of the ore we mined (ofcourse we dont do this mistake second time) I hope i helped ---ANDREIAS E8ELOMEN KINDYNEYEIN--- ----WILLING DANGER FOR BRAVERY----
Getum	Posted - 2005.10.26 16:35:00 - [90] well if you have the money I would say do this.... get 2 accounts. one miner one hauler. If a ore theif shows, cut off laser and wait. 5 minutes of waiting will save from 30 minutes of mining. Just a suggestion if you can afford it.

Tir Aratorn	Posted - 2005.10.27 02:44:00 - [91] Originally by: Mimio 1. Flagging of thief is bad idea. a) It will lead to griefing of noobs b) Best miner will be something like cruiser, destroyer or bs c) Do we want to see Real Chineese Farming here? We will see it. Anybody played Lineage 2? I did and I do hate farming, botting and macrosing 2. Remember, when you drop something in real life, dropped thing does not belong to you. Anybody could pickup it and ignor you. 3. Use secure conts, organize your mining team well, do not be too greedy and ore thiefs will only vanishingly small threat to your business. 1. a) Noobs already grief bc their ore gets stolen by ore thieves. Flagging will only make noobs that steal grief and make them not do it again. b) They already are unless you are expert mining. Expert miners can hire someone to kill ore thieves. c) I hate all of these too, although I never played Lineage 2. Not sure what it has to do with flagging ore thieves though. 2. That’s really odd statement. I wonder if you ever had problems with police in real life because of your obvious lack of understanding what someone’s property is. If I drop something - it’s still mine, not anyone or everyone else’s. Only way that something stops being mine is if I give it to someone else or dispose of it like throwing it in garbage, and even then it's MY garbage until it’s hauled. So I can drop a wallet in the middle of the street and it's still mine, and if someone else takes it and keeps it, he’s a thief. The fact that I may lack common sense to drop wallet there in the first place does not change that fact. 3. I agree 100% with this one.
Flyer11	Posted - 2005.10.29 17:53:00 - [92] combatting ore theft is just basic common sence.. make it obverious, they'll spot it a mile away.. make it as if it was a players name so when it shows up in overveiw or scanner they may pass over it.. or for something more obverious dont jet can mine.. i have only ever been the victim of ore theft by Malx and i laughed it off in local as its my own fault.. its like leaving a ship in a belt with your hauler and you hop from one to another.. your bound to get jacked one day.. and you cant complain its your own fault very constructive ideas posted and i agree with many points made.. all in all ore theft is down to the users own fault.. they know the risk if u prefer to secure mine go mine in 0.7 etc Flyer11
Corrd	Posted - 2005.10.30 23:23:00 - [93] Thankfully ore theft will only really happen in low sec space after the December patch as most piracy happens now. Jet cans are going to have the owners name attached to it. If someone other than the owner removes anything from the can, the owner will be able to safely attack them. I can see a very short, sharp and sweet gankfest happening in high sec space soon.
Flyer11	Posted - 2005.10.31 16:04:00 - [94] Originally by: Corrd Thankfully ore theft will only really happen in low sec space after the December patch as most piracy happens now. Jet cans are going to have the owners name attached to it. If someone other than the owner removes anything from the can, the owner will be able to safely attack them. I can see a very short, sharp and sweet gankfest happening in high sec space soon. thats gonna be sweet.. look out malx ur gonna be headhunted by everyone u've ever ore theft from lmao.. but its a good idea tbh be able to attack in high sec space only if someone steals from the can..but i can see it could go very wrong if concord gets any bugs Flyer11
Mimio	Posted - 2005.11.02 15:43:00 - [95] Originally by: Tir Aratorn Quote: a) Noobs already grief bc their ore gets stolen by ore thieves. Flagging will only make noobs that steal grief and make them not do it again. I will drop cargo with loot in belts and wait till noob pisks it up. After this I will kill him. Voila. Noob will be quite happy. Do you see how much nobody's loot conts floating in highsec belts? A lots. Quote: b) They already are unless you are expert mining. Expert miners can hire someone to kill ore thieves. You did not understand me. Mining barge will be ABSOLUTELY USELESS. Now barges relatively useful(depends from tactics, approach, etc). With flagging who will care about mining barge if Caldary Cormorant totally outperforms mining barge-1? Any ship with six or more turrets will outperfrom barge-2? Quote: c) I hate all of these too, although I never played Lineage 2. Not sure what it has to do with flagging ore thieves though. The only thing which prevents massive chineese farming in high-sec area is ore thiefing. If ore thief will be flagged than chineese cormorants(usual combi 4-5 cormo's + industrial) will kill ore thief and continue farming. Quote: 2. ThatÆs really odd statement. I wonder if you ever had problems with police in real life because of your obvious lack of understanding what someoneÆs property is. If I drop something - itÆs still mine, not anyone or everyone elseÆs. Only way that something stops being mine is if I give it to someone else or dispose of it like throwing it in garbage, and even then it's MY garbage until itÆs hauled. So I can drop a wallet in the middle of the street and it's still mine, and if someone else takes it and keeps it, heÆs a thief. The fact that I may lack common sense to drop wallet there in the first place does not change that fact. You are wrong, "something" is yours if you could prove your rights on this "something". Drop 100 dollas on the road and wait till somebody will pick up. Try to explain to him that this money belongs to you. Lateror sooner you meet guy which will refuse to return "your" money. Ore in the unsecure cont is NOBODY'S ORE. Everybody may pick up it(of course if his/her morality allows such action). EVERYBODY 1. Best thing to be done is 5-10 seconds delay on possibility to pickup jettisoned cargo by another pilots(not in your gang). 2. Ore thiefing is the REAL problem only for guy@macros. These guys jettison ore into space too often and without human control. For good gang with right cooperation and synchronization it is not problem. At least it is not BIG problem.
Roushara	Posted - 2005.11.04 21:00:00 - [96] OK, I know that a patch is coming out that will help with players who want to deal with thieves , this is great - I'd like to throw in my two cents.... The way it stands now, it's like having thieves break into your house , steal your stereo, TV and computer while you sit there with your thumb up your butt, because if you move a muscle to defend your property, the police will show up and kill you. This is wrong in so many ways. Hopefully, with the patch, things will change. I don't like thieves, but i know that thievery is part of the game, so i might suggest that there be limits to the "property" patch. 1) a jetcan should have the option of flagging it as "private property" with the player's name hard coded to it. 2) the player must stay within 10km of the jetcan in order to "protect" it. If it falls outside that radius, then it can be plundered without retaliation. 3) if someone steals goods from a private jetcan, that player runs the risk of being tagged as a "thief" and CONCORD will not rescue the "thief". 4) the "Thief" tag will last 24 hours or until the next server reset. This should allow people to protect their property, allow thieves to continue thieving, protect noobs from "griefers" and keep the game fun. later all. Roushara
Dario Wall	Posted - 2005.11.05 11:59:00 - [97] Originally by: Roushara 4) the "Thief" tag will last 24 hours or until the next server reset. So, Thief A waits near Miner B until sevrer has 5 minutes until reset. Thief A empties Miner B's container and logs. Server goes down. Thief A logs back in after server goes up, and contiues normal life while Miner B can't do a thing about it. If they are flagged for 24 hours, atleast make it 24 of "in-game" time, and have it stay even after a server restart. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- CEO, MegaCorp Enterprises
Roushara	Posted - 2005.11.06 06:18:00 - [98] Edited by: Roushara on 06/11/2005 06:20:22 Like i said, this DOES NOT prevent thieves from thieving, it just forces them to be more creative. It also DOES NOT remove the risk of mining into a jetcan - it simply provides a means of defending your "stuff" - it's still MINER BEWARE!!. The other aspect is it should allow for safe, concentual PvP in secure space. Later
CollTerminator	Posted - 2005.11.11 18:13:00 - [99] tip 1: stop being a carebear and start protecting veldspar from miners =EVE= just doesnt get any better than this, and the payment is better as well Greetz from the Veldspar-protection-crew
Kylun	Posted - 2005.11.12 04:07:00 - [100] since there is nothing u can do against an ore thief, ore theft shouldn¦t be considered an exploit?

Macro Media	Posted - 2005.11.17 11:09:00 - [101] The whole can flagging business is the reason WHY I am publishing my advanced theft guides. The flagging system would not work for my brand of ore theft. Advanced Theft 1 Advanced Theft 2
Tir Aratorn	Posted - 2005.11.19 09:10:00 - [102] Edited by: Tir Aratorn on 19/11/2005 09:10:57 Quote: I will drop cargo with loot in belts and wait till noob pisks it up. After this I will kill him. Voila. Noob will be quite happy. Do you see how much nobody's loot conts floating in highsec belts? A lots. Amount of containers floating in high security belts has NOTHING to do with this topic. If it did, there wouldn't be many now and would be many later. As you said there are lots now and will be later. It's completely different issue. You won't get anything for killing such noob that you mentioned and he will learn fast not to loot other peoples containers. This is not good reason to see your containers get looted and be able to do NOTHING about it. Quote: You did not understand me. Mining barge will be ABSOLUTELY USELESS. Now barges relatively useful(depends from tactics, approach, etc). With flagging who will care about mining barge if Caldary Cormorant totally outperforms mining barge-1? Any ship with six or more turrets will outperfrom barge-2? Apparently you need to do some mining before you post something about it. Just because cormorant has lots of turret slots doesn't mean that he can fit miners on all of them. Ever heard of CPU usage? Cormorant has 215 CPU capacity and one Miner II laser uses 80. You will have to get some boost cormorant's CPU just to fit 3 miners II's. And miner II mines what, 60 ore units? Strip miners that go on mining barges mine ONLY 540. Of course, it doesn't mine that much faster but it's still much, much better then normal mining laser. Mining barges are great because they can use strip miners, have large cargo capacity and bonuses to mining. They will still be great after the patch as nothing changes that. Get to know subject before you post about it. I guess you spent too much time stealing someones ore to actually learn how to mine it. Quote: You are wrong, "something" is yours if you could prove your rights on this "something". Drop 100 dollas on the road and wait till somebody will pick up. Try to explain to him that this money belongs to you. Lateror sooner you meet guy which will refuse to return "your" money. Ore in the unsecure cont is NOBODY'S ORE. Everybody may pick up it(of course if his/her morality allows such action). EVERYBODY First you claim that I'm wrong, and then you prove me right. You said that if I drop something that something no longer belongs to me. So why would someone have morality issues in the first place if it doesn't belong to anyone? Ever heard that someone lost a wallet and later got it returned? Why would someone return it if he no longer owns it? Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. Nothing you said explains this: Quote: Ore in the unsecure cont is NOBODY'S ORE. Everybody may pick up it(of course if his/her morality allows such action). This proves you are ore thief, as this is the way they justify it to themselves. When you place ore in a container it's YOUR container and YOUR ore because YOU mined it with YOUR miner spending YOUR time doing it. It's not everybodies ore. It’s like you walk around a block and see a house that isn’t locked. You think you can just go in and take whatever is inside just because nothing at that moment stops you? You wont be a thief then? Next patch will allow you to take consequence of taking something that doesn’t belong to you, just like in real life, so only ore thieves have to fear it. To be honest I couldn’t care less if they do.
Tadamitsu	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:41:00 - [103] Depending on how they greif the theives in RmR depends on how you need to modify your op. If it is personal ID based, you need to have the battleship jet the pod. If it is anyone outside of the gang, gets greifed to the gang, who jets the can maters less. But from what I under stand: once some one gets flagged for stealing ore they are flagged as law breakers and are limited like someone who has shot at someone in high sec. Of course if you have a battleship with 10 hammer heads, and a warp scrambler the theif in question will be DRT PDQ Talk is cheap, whisky costs money. you got any cash?
Geressin	Posted - 2005.12.04 22:49:00 - [104] Originally by: Kylun since there is nothing u can do against an ore thief, ore theft shouldn¦t be considered an exploit? There are things you can do against ore theft. If you mine into your own hold or an anchored secure container then there is absolutely nothing an ore thief can do to you in high sec space. The problem is that miners want to mine at maximum efficiency (biggest possible container, least frequent possible hauling, longest uninterrupted mining runs) and they expect this to come with watertight security. The best tips have been given already, but please, if you want to mine safely: 1) Think about what an ore thief likes and doesn't like. Ore thieves like lots of minerals left in unsecured containers inhigh sec space. They don't like small amounts of minerals, secure containers or the chance of being blown up. Use secure containers (go to 0.7 or below if you don't have legacy containers in 0.8+) and cope with the smaller size by hauling regularly. Which brings me to... 2) Don't mine alone. I don't expect perfect security if I fly my possessions through lowsec alone. Don't expect perfect security if you sit on a heap of unsecured minerals alone. Get at least one partner and combine mining with hauling to ensure that you never have too much ore available for a thief to steal. As a reformed ore thief I can say there is nothing I hated more than finding a juicy mark only to see his hauler insta in ahead of me and grab all the loot (although the thrill of grabbing ore a few seconds ahead of the legit hauler almost makes up for it) In Eve, as in real life, each person is ultimately responsible for his own safety and happiness. There are laws and police, but if you're not getting satisfaction from them then you have to make things work for you by changing your own approach. That being said I think rule changes are in order, and I favour some kind of thief flagging system, although I am concerned about the farming and noob griefing problems raised further up the page.
Drauqhk Shathet	Posted - 2005.12.07 06:24:00 - [105] Two of us mining in 0.8 sec space, both in cruisers, both into jet cans. We had it set up so that when the cans combined load was close to that of my hauler, I would go and get it and dump the ore into a nearby station. Simple and easy. What rat's there were, were easily dealt with with drones and missles. Then a fellow in a hauler goes straight to my jet can, empties it and flys off, while I am stil mining to it. It was bold and well executed. Now had I been using a secure can, he could have just scooped it into his cargo hold as it being 0.8 space I couldn't anchor it (or am I missing something?) I have nothing against the guy that took my ore, but it is a bit irritating to have to watch my ore fly away. Now as I understand it, that action is allowed by CCP without any repercussions at all. That's ok by me too. I could have fired on him, and traded my cruiser to concord for the dubious pleasure of scratching his armor. I guess I will just wait to catch him in low sec space and pod him at every chance that I get. I understand that that action is also allowed by ccp without repercussion, oh wait, my sec status will go down slightly. I can live with that. And to those who say I shouldn't have been mining into a can, well all I can say is that he shouldn't have been in low sec space after lifting my ore.
Nalar Marnith	Posted - 2005.12.14 04:21:00 - [106] With the changes in RMR, anyone who steals from your can is criminally flagged to you (and your gang). This means you can attack them should they steal. This will cut down ore theft i think, but there is a flip side to this. Should someone warp in and steal from your can and you attack them, they can retaliate. I assume this means anyone in their gang can too. This means you can get ganked in empire with a carfully executed trap, so watch yourselves!
Croix Kun	Posted - 2005.12.14 06:43:00 - [107] sorry but i have to say this Thekiller8 your movies rock are you making more if so evemail me please!!
paulcdb	Posted - 2005.12.20 18:50:00 - [108] I was just thinking last night of something else to add to the Empty Cans... Once you've jetisoned your 'false' cans (and you can jetison bookmarks, so don't waste the trit) TAG the one you are mining into so that only people on your gang can see it, should at least make the thieves work for it
Jace Rondo	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:51:00 - [109] Originally by: Nalar Marnith Should someone warp in and steal from your can and you attack them, they can retaliate. I assume this means anyone in their gang can too. This means you can get ganked in empire with a carfully executed trap, so watch yourselves! Incorrect - people in their gang cannot help them. They are on their own. As you've said, if things were as you suggested then it would be an easy way to gank people all over the place.
Mimio	Posted - 2005.12.27 14:20:00 - [110] Originally by: Tir Aratorn Edited by: Tir Aratorn on 19/11/2005 09:10:57 bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla After patch released, I could only laugh on you: 1. Nubs are griefed with can flagging. 2. Flagging doesn't prevent ore thiefing. Worst feature in whole RMR. Absolutely useless and annoying for newbies.

Mimio	Posted - 2005.12.27 14:23:00 - [111] Originally by: Tir Aratorn Edited by: Tir Aratorn on 19/11/2005 09:10:57 This proves you are ore thief, as this is the way they justify it to themselves. Possibly, you will have quite difficult task trying to prove this. By the way, according your "logic" that proves that you are macrominer, as this is the way you protect your business.
Mimio	Posted - 2006.01.04 16:17:00 - [112] Originally by: Tir Aratorn Edited by: Tir Aratorn on 19/11/2005 09:10:57 It's completely different issue. It doesnt matter. That issue is different when the the reason of issues is the same. Quote: Just because cormorant has lots of turret slots doesn't mean that he can fit miners on all of them. What the wonderful idea! Are you sure? Quote: Ever heard of CPU usage? I am mother of CPU usage. Being Caldari. Quote: Cormorant has 215 CPU capacity and one Miner II laser uses 80. Yes. Great. What next? Wind up electronics. Very cheap and very fast. Quote: You will have to get some boost cormorant's CPU just to fit 3 miners II's. Yes, totally 180 m3 per minute. Not counting bonuses. Quote: Next patch will allow you to take consequence Try to be more polite. Because your insinuations are quite dull. Quote: of taking something that doesnÆt belong to you, just like in real life, so only ore thieves have to fear it. To be honest I couldnÆt care less if they do. You are badly wrong(as usually). Current situation is next: Battleship(or battlecruiser) is picking up any ore in any can and move it into its own can. You may try to kill "thief". And I wish you to be happy travelling home in the pod. Or you may try to steal ore back. Also, I wish you to be happy when you will be popped. Quote: And miner II mines what, 60 ore units? Strip miners that go on mining barges mine ONLY 540. Ever heard about cycle? So 540 is magicaly converted to 180. It is real output from one strip-miner. 180 as Cormorant could mine in few days of training. Also you could use some named mining lasers and fit 5 of them. Having honorous 220 - 235 m3 per minute. Not a bad result for macrominers! They will be happy! Osprey will give 288-360 m3 per minute. Apoc 480 for sure. And Apoc may not only mine it may kill. It may kill barges, pirates and just tank damage. Which mining barge will outperfrom these ships? Only Covetor which require, mamma mia, skill "Mining Barge 5" Quote: Of course, it doesn't mine that much faster but it's still much, much better then normal mining laser. False, try to read guide, count slots, calculate output. Very us Quote: Mining barges are great because they can use strip miners, False. Digits show that you are badly wrong. Quote: have large cargo capacity and bonuses to mining. Nope, flagging removed this bonus forever. Quote: They will still be great after the patch as nothing changes that. Apoc is great after patch. Quote: I guess you spent too much time stealing someones ore to actually learn how to mine it. You are badly wrong as usually. Quote: First you claim that I'm wrong, and then you prove me right. You said that if I drop something that something no longer belongs to me. So why would someone have morality issues in the first place if it doesn't belong to anyone? Because there is difference between Eve and real-life. Quote: Ever heard that someone lost a wallet and later got it returned? Ever heard that someone dumped a wallet and later got it returned? There is NO lost in Eve. Quote: Why would someone return it if he no longer owns it? Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. Jettisoned is not equal to lost. Tou cant lost in Eve. You may only jettison. If you dumped something(garbage, car or TV) than this is do not belong to you. Jettison is synonim of dumping. You always may use secure conts. Quote: When you place ore in a container it's YOUR container and YOUR ore because YOU mined it with YOUR miner spending YO...
Fancy That	Posted - 2006.01.05 06:35:00 - [113] A few things seem obvious to me: As a noob, I saw containers that floated around, full of stuff, and that reminded me of the containers left by destroyed rats during missions. When I opened one, the UI warned me that this was someone's property, so I backed off and mined my own ore. I appreciated the reminder. If I buy the lasers and the ship and train the skills, then spend the time mining the ore, then I believe that makes it MY ore. I believe that international law on earth would at least support this view. If someone exploits the rules to take MY ore, he has stolen. As a practical matter, noobs need a source of income that helps them gain a foothold in the game, and I am hardly damaged by a little "charity"...ie ignoring the losses. Use of lethal force versus a noob should, in a sane world, be reserved for significant offences. Remember...that noob you let escape with a few hundred ISK may make a good corpmate when he feels a little more secure and has enough cash for his own survival in the wallet. Reserve your bloodlust for playing with the bigun's, as my daddy always said...let the littleun's run and play.
Vonner	Posted - 2006.01.05 12:06:00 - [114] Having almost fallen for a trap involving the new flagging system, I think it definately has some problems. So if someone steals your ore you have attack rights. Once you attack them, they then have attack rights on you, so they gank you (mining lasers aren't that good at denting shields!). So wouldn't it be better if you have attack rights that CONCORD recognises this and considers the ore stealers retaliation as an 'uncondoned attack' and so destroys them. Not sure if that is actually achievable but it would stop ppl exploiting the new flagging system, but still allow ore thievery (most thieves in rl run when shot at!).
Phlaago Rexor	Posted - 2006.01.05 22:36:00 - [115] Originally by: Vonner Having almost fallen for a trap involving the new flagging system, I think it definately has some problems. Indeed. Same thing happened to me today while i was mining with my alt. Some 23 days old piece of <insert favourite brown smelly substance here> flying a shuttle moved my ore to a different can today.. As I am used to can naming not always working as intended pre rmr i didnt react to the fact that it was a different name on the can.. what did set me off was that i couldnt put stuff into the can. He then had gangmembers warping in with a cruiser and maybe a hauler too. Now i cant decide if i would rather bring my rupture or my cyclone to deal with these tards next time they pull this...
Suhadi	Posted - 2006.01.18 14:24:00 - [116] Originally by: Vonner Not sure if that is actually achievable but it would stop ppl exploiting the new flagging system, but still allow ore thievery (most thieves in rl run when shot at!). "Exploiting" the new flagging system? The flagging system is working exactly as intended, did you think it was put in place to make your mining operation safer? If so, you are very much mistaken. It was put in place so that you have the option to enforce your own rights. Originally by: Vonner So wouldn't it be better if you have attack rights that CONCORD recognises this and considers the ore stealers retaliation as an 'uncondoned attack' and so destroys them. Seriously, you want to be able to shoot ore thieves without them being allowed to retaliate in any way? How pathetic is that? Why don't we just have CONCORD warp in, scramble/web/jam the thief and hold him while you go swap some weapons in for your mining lasers, while transferring all his isk to your account, burning his children and selling his wife into the exotic dancer trade; would that be more agreeable to you? Might makes right, if you can't defend yourself, don't take the risk of mining into a jetcan. -------------------------------------------------- - Suhadi
Crimson Lightning	Posted - 2006.01.21 10:09:00 - [117] Edited by: Crimson Lightning on 21/01/2006 10:10:37 I look at it this way, if what you jettison is "truly" yours and someone comes by and takes it, then it is considered "stealing." In RMR, you have the opportunity to attack said thief and in return, the thief may attack you. However, since the CCP has stated their veiw on jet cans http://support.eve-online.com/cgi-bin/eve_online.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=520, it can be said that what you jettison is garbage even though you certainly wouldn't want your precious ore to be considered garbage. "The regular containers were designed to jettison unwanted items into space or to hold loot from blown up ships. They were designed so that any player could take from them because that was essential for them to function as they were intended."-This is quoted from the page in the above link. Given this information from CCP, if someone comes by to take your "garbage", he isn't considered a thief. "You" may consider him a thief because you do not consider your ore as garbage, but the Concord doesn't consider it stealing. Let me give a real life example: You take out your garbage. Someone comes by and takes stuff out of your garbage can. (As far as I know, once you put your garbage out on the curb, it ceases to be your property, even before they pick it up. I may be wrong so please correct me on this with actual documentation from legal sources. If I am wrong, then this example is to be considered flawed and should be disregarded.) What this person takes out is now his. If he uses any of it to cause harm to you in anyway, ie. identity theft, he then has commited a crime and will be dealt with by the local or national authorites. He is not being charged with "Identity Theft" for stealing anything out of your garbage, but he is being charged with "Identity Theft" because he used said garbage in a way detrimental to you. The authorities won't bother with someone taking stuff from someone's garbage unless he is using it in an illicit manner. If they did, all hobos or bums would be getting arrested (I do not mean the previous statement to offend or condemn people of less fortunate living circumstances). Example based on US law. However, as mentioned earlier in this thread, EVE:RMR is a game and should not be compared to real life. In giving this example, I have enabled both people that want an example to real life and those who do not (those who do not care for a real life comparison, disregard) the opportunity to make their own decision. "Also, ore 'theft' is not considered harassment so no punishment will be dealt out to those who choose to 'steal'."-also derived from the above link. Notice the CCP has put the word "theft" and "steal" in quotations. In doing this, they are appeasing the many people who actually consider the taking of ore a crime. Since the CCP cannot contradict themselves by actually stating in their own words that the taking of ore is considered a "theft," they have opted to use quotations to relieve themselves of any responsiblity in the subject of "ore thieving." So according to the CCP, the creaters of the game EVE, the taking of ore or any other item from a jettisoned can is not considered stealing. "You" may consider it stealing because "you" believe the items in question are "yours". So the question, "Is the taking of ore considered stealing," is a matter of opinion. If "you" think it is stealing, that is your perogative. If "you" don't think it is stealing, that is your choice as well. So here lies the situation: The question of stealing in EVE is a matter of opinion; If you consider it stealing, then it is stealing only in your eyes; If you don't consider it is stealing, then it is not. Many would bring the question of morality in this situation. However, since this being a game and not real life, that question is null and void. Also, since the CCP does not consider it stealing and even with morality an issue, the taking of one's "garbage" is not a crime and not subject to any negative morality.-LordXykon-
Devil Chaser	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:02:00 - [118] Does anyone have a link to a detailed report of the new rules governing theft? I understand them slightly but I can't find a detailed report. Or maybe just explain exactly what danger thieves are now in after the RMR patch?
Suhadi	Posted - 2006.01.30 11:11:00 - [119] Originally by: Devil Chaser Edited by: Devil Chaser on 29/01/2006 20:05:56 Does anyone have a link to a detailed report of the new rules governing theft? I understand them slightly but I can't find a detailed report. Or maybe just explain exactly what danger thieves are now in after the RMR patch? Here's whats in the knowledge base: What happens when you steal When you take something from a container that does not belong to you and which you do not have the implicit right to take things from, you will be shown a confirmation dialog asking you if you really want to steal it and warning you of the consequences. If you choose to go ahead and steal despite the warning, you will be criminal flagged to: The corporation of the owner of the container, if it is not an NPC corporation. All fellow gang members of the owner of the container that are within the local area of space (the bubble the container is in). The owner of the container (this is not done if the ownerÆs corporation was flagged). ---------------------- Ok, but that's not enough info. If someone steals from my can, what attack rights do I get, or my gang, or my corp? How long does it last? Does it allow pursuit across several star systems? Can we spend the next week hunting down this guy and be free to kill him until we pod him once? Can we kill him multiple times till the timer runs out? Lots of questions I don't see answers for yet... You, your gang, and your corp can shoot the thief for 15 minutes. AFAIK there are no restrictions as far as system is concerned ie. you may follow him anywhere. You may destroy his ship but you may not pod him. -------------------------------------------------- - Suhadi
Devil Chaser	Posted - 2006.01.31 02:05:00 - [120] Outstanding, thanks for the info.

Sidney Carton	Posted - 2006.01.31 02:33:00 - [121] This post started out FULL of great ideas on preventing ore theft, and has turned into macro-miners vs ore thieves complaining about 'rules' and 'exploits'. The Jet-can is NOT secure, SPECIFICALLY so ANYONE may open it. Being that CCP has specifically addressed this issue saying that Jet-cans were never intended to be used for mining, its fair to say "use at your own risk". So the miners want to complain about using secure cans. "Its not big enough" You've been given a way to secure your ore and now you complain. I think it is ridiculous to think that you should be able to point your rig at something, tell it to mine and walk away for 3 hours. The size of the secure can insures that you have two choices: 1) Form a mining team with haulers, miners, and guards or 2) Risk your ore being stolen because your dumbass went AFK. Now that an ore-thief gets flagged, the only people an ore-thief is going to steal from are the AFKers and miners without guards. I don't see this as anything different from piracy except for the simple fact that sec rating doesnt drop because youre not ATTACKING anything. Simple fact: Eve is meant to be a dynamic enviroment where players police themselves. Set up a mining crew and use secured containers.
Devil Chaser	Posted - 2006.01.31 04:08:00 - [122] All this problem would have been solved a long time ago if CCP didn't allow for adding items to jetcans after they reach a certain capacity. I understand the need for jetcans to hold a player's cargo in case they are destroyed or want to jettison their cargo. It's another to allow a simple jetcan to hold an infinite about beyond it's original contents. This simple rule would have solved this argument over a year ago.
Daikatana00	Posted - 2006.02.01 20:14:00 - [123] Edited by: Daikatana00 on 01/02/2006 20:18:54 How about this for an explanation: Conclave said they don't care and dont have the time to deal with you whiners. They aren't dealing with the people anymore who throw their stuff out into space (not your personal property BTW so IRL that is illegal dumping) in the equivalent of a garbage bag or garbage can and then expect the police to stand around guarding it for them. I don't steal ore but please ralize you are putting your stuff into a garbage can and intentionally throwing it outside your property line (your ship/buildings are the only thing you really own in EVE) then whining about people taking it. Quit trying to rationalize this process through your claims of "It's still my property." You intentionally threw it outside of your property. Whether you plan to come back and get it later is not definatively known by the "thieves" and of little importance anyway. They've already said that you can retaliate in a gang-style shootout with that person over it and they won't respond. That is much, much, more than you'll get IRL.
SparrowWolf	Posted - 2006.02.03 09:41:00 - [124] Edited by: SparrowWolf on 03/02/2006 09:43:13 I just thought it was funny to reply on this Imagine Someone would be moving into a new house There is a moving van parked next to the curb one guy (miner)is taking stuff out of the van and puts it on the sidewalk and another guy (hauler) picks it up and brings it into the house Nou the first guy just put a television on the sidewalk and went back into the van to get something else , the other guy just went into the house with other items , here come u (orethief) and sees the tv end deside its trash and quickly grabs it and runs off with it , would this be theft or not ?? I think its not hard to figure this one out lol If u see someone mine next to a can (secure or not isn't the point)then u know he has been mining ore into it and u know its not trash So you know very well your a thief if u take that ore, so don't try to justify yourself hehe Just thought this was a funny story I didn't mean to offend anyone with this post , just had fun reading the discussion and thought to contribute with my fictional story
Devil Chaser	Posted - 2006.02.04 19:52:00 - [125] It's not a question of 'implied' property. It's a question of using an unsecure method when secure methods are available. Jetcans have a size of 27000 cubic meters, if I remember. They can be created in infinite numbers for zero cost. Secure containers created explicitly to prevent theft are available for a price. Using a jetcan, which is free and infinitely available and has massive storage space... using this for mining is basically an exploit. CCP would tell you that jetcans were not designed for mining storage. THey have high capacity to hold destroyed ship remains. When you think about it, jetcans aren't even physically possible. A container capable of holding 27000 cubic meters of cargo, and can be produced in infinite numbers, is physically impossible. The idea that even little frigates can carry these... silly. So obviously they exist for a certain necessary convience. Namely, as a universal container to hold the remains of detonated ships. They did this, I believe, to reduce the lag which would be caused if destroyed ships simply spilled out each individual module separately when they blew up. The problem is that CCP didn't put a little extra effort into their programming, to make a jetcan max storage equal to the original jettisoned contents. Nor did they do anything sensible such as preventing players from adding new items to the jetcan after it's been jettisoned. This may sound strange, but it's because we've accepted the silliness since EVE began. The correct thing to do, would be to add more restrictions to the default jetcans, so they are only used for jettisoning of items and for destroyed ship debris. Then, REQUIRE people to carry empty storage containers for item transfer usage. But to prevent wasting space in the cargo hold, let players stash items into these containers in their own cargo space. It would act similar to pouches and backpacks in other RPGs. The container can hold items when in the ship, then the container can also be jettisoned. If this was done, it would prevent the unrealistic use of the massive 27,000 cubic meter default jetcans, and would encourage use of the realistic standard storage container. So bottom line, default jetcans are not intended for miners to store unrealistically large amounts of ore in, and you do not deserve any protections for using them in this way. It has NOTHING to do with 'implied ownership'
SparrowWolf	Posted - 2006.02.06 07:58:00 - [126] would it not be nice to be able to mine into a industrial ,ferighetr or any other kind of big capacity hauler ? Would also make more sense and that would also mean u need 2 persons to make mining effective (were not the industrials original designed to be able to carry mobile refineries?, they have crazy amouth of cpu capacity) Result no more ore thieves since there are no cans to plunder For some kind of reason ccp made those cans the way they are and instead of changing the way jettisoncans work they desided to make that flag system and not change the jettison cans The reasons they have prolly go beyond the understanding of the normal human mind My 2 cents
Gurahnus Tempest	Posted - 2006.02.10 20:28:00 - [127] Edited by: Gurahnus Tempest on 10/02/2006 20:33:47 Devil Chaser, you raise some intresting ideas and suggestions. But I propose CCP take it even further. I believe the jetcan was used as a standard for all loot, blown up debris and ejected cargo. It saves on resources to have a single item floating in space which could potentially wind up to be anything available in the game. Why not remove the jetcan all together. Keep secure containers for their obvious uses, but why does an exploding ship eject a nicely wrapped parcel ready to be picked up. You want to jetison something out into space? Open the airlock and push it out. Why giftwrap it first? That stuff cargo hold isent going to get dressed to go outside. Unless it was stored that way of course,. In other words, you eject a load of scordite, you see a load of scordite. You eject a hull expander,. there it is out there floating. Vip's,.. well, maybe they'd go pop due to the decompression. Nasty mess there. Anyway, I realize this would be huge to impliment. But I just wanted to share the idea. New servers comin an all,... Stay Safe all!
Devil Chaser	Posted - 2006.02.13 23:09:00 - [128] There are server-load problems with that technique. Now you have increased the possible variety of space-borne objects a thousandfold. Check out the overview settings. Do you want a check-box for every single module in the game? Do you want the game to have to track and have rules for every one of these items? Also, and I think this was the number one reason: A ship with 10 modules installed gets 'blowed up'. Do you want the server to track a single uniformly recognized cargo pod, or 10 separate unique modules in space? That's a tenfold increase in server load for a single destroyed ship. Multiply that by all the NPCs and player ships getting blowed up... u get the picture. CCP's problem is that they are making new systems to accomodate troubled systems that are accomodating troubled systems... etc. The best solution it to completely forget this jetcan flagging, ore thieving, etc. crap. Limit jetcans for detonated ships only. All other jettisoned items must be jettisoned using a storage container that was bought and payed for. Also, as was brilliantly suggested, allow for direct transfer of mined ore from the mining vessel to the cargo vessel. Some sort of physical link to let the miner 'piggyback' the hauler. Or... a neeto concept... cargo drones!
WorthlessGerm	Posted - 2006.02.15 16:23:00 - [129] Originally by: Gurahnus Tempest Edited by: Gurahnus Tempest on 10/02/2006 20:36:32 Edited by: Gurahnus Tempest on 10/02/2006 20:33:47 Devil Chaser, you raise some intresting ideas and suggestions. But I propose CCP take it even further. I believe the jetcan was used as a standard for all loot, blown up debris and ejected cargo. It saves on resources to have a single item floating in space which could potentially wind up to be anything available in the game. Why not remove the jetcan all together. Keep secure containers for their obvious uses, but why does an exploding ship eject a nicely wrapped parcel residing in something the size of an airplain hanger ready to be picked up. You want to jetison something out into space? Open the airlock and push it out. Why giftwrap it first? That stuff in the cargo hold isent going to get dressed to go outside. Unless it was stored that way of course,. In other words, you eject a load of scordite, you see a load of scordite. You eject a hull expander,. there it is out there floating. Vip's,.. well, maybe they'd go pop due to the decompression. Nasty mess there. Anyway, I realize this would be huge to impliment. But I just wanted to share the idea. New servers comin an all,... Stay Safe all! Unless I am completely offbase here, which I dont thikn I am. The reasoning is simple for not having individual items floating in space. It takes less server and system resources to show you a single container floating in space rather than 20-30 or more. For instance say you get into a big battle. there are 16 ships involved, the losing 8 ships are all destroyed, each is carrying say 8 items each, well that would be 48 items floating in space, not to mention the remainging eight ships trying to fly in close and check out the container, and if they have a bunch of stuf in their hold we there are simple going to be more stuf your system and the server ahve to load and pretty soon everything starts to really slow down. I really like the jetcan, i only wish it had a longer lifetime than one hour.
Kruel	Posted - 2006.02.15 16:39:00 - [130] I think it's kinda cool that this game is dynamic enough to allow theives. It makes it more realistic, and adds another challenge to the "honest" players. It's a role playing game, and if someone wants to role a bad guy, that's cool. If you didn't have an ore theif ****ing you off, you also wouldn't have the great satisfaction of KILLING that ore theif after the fact. ;)

Tiffany Aleeus	Posted - 2006.02.15 20:13:00 - [131] Must... kill... MACRO-MINERS!
pludder	Posted - 2006.03.02 07:01:00 - [132] lol +++ +++
Xantiln	Posted - 2006.03.02 22:00:00 - [133] How difficult would it be to change how the jetcan works? 1. make it hold only the amount your ships max cargo size. 2. make it so that only items can be taken out of the jetcan. 3. you get only one jetcan, after you jettison that can, anything after that is destroyed/unrecoverable. You will need to dock at a station to have another automatically add to your ship(free). 4. Change the 60 minutes it can stay in space to 90 minutes. Have the can flagged the property of the player that jettison the can for the first 60. Anyone trying to steal your stuff from the can gets flagged and destroyed same as if he shot at you. The last 30 it belongs to anyone, there is no penalty if someone takes your items from the jetcan. This also applies to any ships that get destroyed NPC or PC the jetcan from that ship belongs to the player that dealt the killing blow or gang. Please reply with the reasons this would be a bad idea or undo able.
Lux Simian	Posted - 2006.03.03 21:51:00 - [134] Ok I didn't realise that jetcan mining wasn't supposed to be part of the game, but anti-social gaming is pretty much out of order, and its worth bearing in mind that for new players that this method is probably the only way they can establish a line of cash in the game fairly quickly (or should we be going to Ebay and paying the 23.95 for the ISK - I can afford to do that 3 or 4 times a month, but that kind of defeats the object). Certainly I won't be doing it in the future. But that doesn't justify picking on much weaker players in game. Lets not forget these people don't actually ore jump people who are likely to be able to fight back. If I actually hunt down and kill the person who did this to me, then I am a criminal, unless I do it in low sec space, if I call them a c**t I could get banned but for them to pick on new and low ranked players is acceptable. If by some luck I end up in a position where i can hammer them back, and do so every time they undock, that would be considered against the rules of the game. I can't even put a bounty on them. However in response to the Offical line, if they steal from us at least let us have a kill right on them. If its not what Jetcans are for, then why allow it. It ok for people to turn up profit from this because they happen to have ships that most starting players can't even hope to take on. Of course if you happen to do this with a serious back up, then its fine, no one is going to mess with you. Basically its bullying because newbies are never gonna be in a position where they can get retaliation without actually cheating themselves. So whats the solution, I have to spend my first few months building skills and spending the bucks on Ebay, and then when I can I can start getting my own back? Those who think its clever or big, is this how you get your kicks, because I am sure you don't act like this outside of the safety of a game.
Crimson Angel	Posted - 2006.03.05 00:40:00 - [135] don't forget having a buddy with a heavy duty combat ship and an insta drop the cans with 1 round of ammo in it first. They steal that can they get flagged, and they can warp in on them. After all if you're mining, odds are you don't have much if any offensive weapons. This is especially good for high security space Plus since I got an alt hauler, I purchased a stack of medium cans, since they can scoop them and I'm out the 12k versus the price of bigger ones, to use as transfer cans. I plan to rename the one I use as standard, with a password. Not all realize you can't shoot them without drawing concord's wrath But having a buddy or two with trapped cans might be a nice nasty surprise, especially since you and your buddys using them will be on aggression to them as well in case they need to use area attacks (with warnings so you can try to warp to a safe spot) This sig is for rent, give me isk! 1 million to be put on the waiting list. Moderators, get a discount! .5 billion isk!
Gedion	Posted - 2006.03.17 20:53:00 - [136] One more thing. If someone does steal your ore and you get kill rights, don't try and steal it back. you'll just end up giveing them kill rights on you and they will in turn, warp scramble and kill you in there rocket spamming suicide ship or have someone in their gang do it if they can't take you solo.
ThraxXx	Posted - 2006.03.25 20:45:00 - [137] When I mine I usualy have a spot in deep space marked. I usually fill up my Mining barge (2758m3) and then warp to that location in deep space and drop it in a jetcan there and then go back to the belt and hit it. So far there has been no acts of piracy against me and all in all I am making some sweet change.
Ilor Prophet	Posted - 2006.03.31 00:27:00 - [138] I can't believe there's even still a discussion about this - if you don't want people to steal your ore, QUIT MINING INTO JETCANS! It's not rocket science. Find some other way to store your stuff. Or (gods forbid) set up instas to the nearest station and the "sweet spot" in the belt you're mining. You can go from mining to hauling in very little time, and no one EVER has the opportunity to steal from you. Problem solved. From one miner to another, using jetcans is just plain stupid. You are begging to get robbed. It's like parking your car on a busy street with every door and window left wide open, then complaining when someone comes by and steals all your CDs or your Ipod. You reap what you sow.
Z00T	Posted - 2006.04.05 06:45:00 - [139] if your chatting in local.. never say: 'my can is full...' . ITFB RECRUITMENT
Armagedon Tired	Posted - 2006.04.19 09:03:00 - [140] I mine in an Osprey in high sec and my preferred tactic for dealing with ore thieves is to web, warp scramble and kill them. If an indy or such like approaches my can I target it and wait, as soon as it is criminal flagged I prevent his escape by webbing and scrambling and let my drones and assault launcher do the rest. Unfortunately there are not enough mid slots to fit both of these in a barge so forget this in a Procurer (1 light drone will not do the job) however a warp disruptor may keep the thief there long enough for the 5 light or 5 med drones to kill him.

343Guiltyspark	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:22:00 - [141] Originally by: Dark Shikari How about just not using jetcans? Also, ore thieves nearly never smack. I personally have never seen an ore thief smack in my life. Its always the miners, not the thieves, who smack and complain. You can't even fit two units of ice in a huge secure container. It only holds 1950 m3. If CCP is so against miners, why not just do away with it and supply ships on the market like they do with skillbooks? Then everyone can be PvP. After all, a pirate who just started his toon today can be successfull because his prey for the most part can't fight back. It takes a miner weeks and weeks to get the skills to use a barge and industrial and be any good at mining. It just seems to slanted. If you're going to make it so easy to be a pirate, at least give more high slots to barges and industrials to mount guns on.
343Guiltyspark	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:25:00 - [142] Originally by: OffBeaT hehe.. i use too rename my cans in the past so they said the same thing that my locked can's said next too them. most ore theifs are noobs and they see the real cans but think they where all the same cans. it actully worked better then i thought it would. I don't see how. Anchored containers don't even show up on my overhead. So, if you have a jet can sitting out there, that's ALL I'm going to see.
343Guiltyspark	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:16:00 - [143] Originally by: Arden Finch Looks like CCP is starting to do something against ore theft. Just read the following in the patch notes (in testing bit): Quote: Criminal flag pilots that take from jettisoned cans which don't belong to them This is needed to allow the owner of the can to shoot the one taking from his own jettisoned can and to allow the owner to shoot anyone taking from the loot cans which drop from the NPC's the owner destroyed. This does NOT include a CONCORD response, only enables the owner to shoot without getting CONCORDOKENED himself. Could be applied to agent missions too, registering jettisoned containers to the mission owner. Doesn't do you much good when you're sitting in a mining barge. I know this was written a while ago. CCP is on the right track with this, but not unless the miner has a ship that can fight back. My retriever has such low shields and armor, and almost no slots to beef it up, that drones won't kill even a frigate before they kill me first. These people aren't doing it because they need or want the ore, they are simply trying to **** off other players. So, only some ore thieving comes in the form of an industrial. I've had battlecruisers take my ore just to get a rise out of me. Not much my little drones can do about that. This is running paying players away from the game. I guess it comes down to how many paying customers CCP wants. If they want more money, then they'll have to do something. If they are happy with their income, then they can let it continue. Maybe this is a way for them to generate more than one account per person. I know I started a second account just for hauling my ore. Mining with corp mates isn't always the answer. My corp is scattered all over the place. Rarely are any of my corp mates in the same area as me, let alone wanting to mine or haul and have the ship there to do it with. Personally I think the thief should be flagged for all players, or at least players in your gang or corp. I had a guy stealing from me two days ago. Two corp mates came over to help, but he wasn't flagged for them. Here I am sitting in my almost defensless retriever, and them in ships that could do something about it, and they couldn't open fire. Everything just seems so unbalanced towards pirates. At least if you are going to give agro, give it for a few hours so I have time to go get a combat ship and find the person. I still may not be able to take them out, but at least then I would have a fighting chance.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.05.02 13:11:00 - [144] 343Guiltyspark, can you fit a webifier? Drones take a long time to dammage frigates, that is unless you webify them. Try it and see, it is how i fight off most frigates. I dont have a barge though so i dont know if that can take one.
Nunc F	Posted - 2006.05.07 22:24:00 - [145] Another way of dealing with ore thieves: Two ships with tractor beams ... bounce the can back and forth and let them try and chase it :)
tuade	Posted - 2006.05.08 10:45:00 - [146] good thread thanks im lookin at getting into mining when not doing anything else and its nice to have an idea of what to expect.
Needa3	Posted - 2006.05.25 11:11:00 - [147] Originally by: Crimson Lightning Let me give a real life example: You take out your garbage. Someone comes by and takes stuff out of your garbage can. (As far as I know, once you put your garbage out on the curb, it ceases to be your property, even before they pick it up. I may be wrong so please correct me on this with actual documentation from legal sources. If I am wrong, then this example is to be considered flawed and should be disregarded.) What this person takes out is now his. If he uses any of it to cause harm to you in anyway, ie. identity theft, he then has commited a crime and will be dealt with by the local or national authorites. [/quote=Crimson Lightning] And this is exactly where you go wrong. When you put your garbage out it remains yours and you still remain liable for whatever happens to it/ because of it. If your statement is correct i can put out my garbage wherever i want without any responsability for it. The person who falls over my garbage will have no claimrights for the possible dammage sustained? Why should he, it garbage wich i put out and according to your statement it isn't mine anymore so how can I be held responsible for it?? Fact and law states clearly that all that the owner of the garbage can be held liable and responisible at any given time. (civilian and environmental law). According to that it remains YOURS at all time.

Jacques Archambault	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:51:00 - [148] I've unstickied this thread since it hasn't been receiving much attention lately. You are still able to view it in the Piracy Resource Thread. -Jacques' forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website! Want to be an EVE-Online forum moderator? click here!

MacCoy	Posted - 2006.08.27 00:18:00 - [149] Edited by: MacCoy on 27/08/2006 00:22:34 Robbing have to be banned from this game (maybe not in 0.0 because it's a PvP zone) Being a robber in a game is to encourage being it in real life, because it is easy and quick in real life. NOT the same as being a pirate in real life !!!! Think at that deeply ! Being a pirate in a game can be entertaining, but in a game ! not in real life. Being a robber in a game can be funny, and in real life too !!! EvE is becoming to be a SHAME ! note: and please, don't tell me to use hundreds of those "huge" secure containers into the spot, that is not big enough to hold ONE TICK of my mackinaw (4 White glaze blocks per tick).


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