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TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.20 22:32:00 -
[31]
Edited by: TornSoul on 20/06/2005 22:33:09
eep double post
BIG Lottery
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MuthaTrucka
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Posted - 2005.06.20 22:36:00 -
[32]
Does this mean the warm and fuzzy is gone? jeeze and I was gonna run agetns for the next week too...So much for that idea......Well guess istart hanging out waiting for something to shoot.....
---------------
Don't Call me a Carebear,
I don't really care about much at all.
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[ Internally Yours foyle, MT ]
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Metal Dude
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Posted - 2005.06.20 22:52:00 -
[33]
Well, on one hand I find this funny. If FA only did that with MACE against CFS, we would still be kicking ass. On the other hand I again find this funny. At least FA learned their lesson and actually supports their ex-members. GJ.
Kudos and GL if you actually put up a fleet to fight. Will you be leading that fleet, TornSoul or is the lottery drawing and making speeches the only things that you do? No disrespect, but if you talk the talk, you should walk the walk. DonĘt you think? Looking forward to seeing you on the battle field.
P.S. Say hello to my old AFDT boys. I still like them even if I have to shoot them now. 
The truth will set you free
* Proud to be ATUK * |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.20 22:55:00 -
[34]
Me *leading* a fleet... erhem.. I think I'd get shot by 'accidental' friendly fire, if I ever tried to do that 
Theres a reason we have FC's - and that I'm not one of them
BIG Lottery
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Metal Dude
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Posted - 2005.06.20 23:23:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: TornSoul
Me *leading* a fleet... erhem.. I think I'd get shot by 'accidental' friendly fire, if I ever tried to do that
Theres a reason we have FC's - and that I'm not one of them
LMAO. They would not dare shoot you. hehe. But I would.
There should not be difference between a FC and a Leader of an Alliance in this day and age. Respect is earned on the battle field, not in the board room. ThatĘs my take on the subject and that's why Script and Stan are second to none.
Most problems are always started by the people that donĘt actually do any of the fighting. ItĘs because they donĘt have anything to lose, since all they do are speeches. The leaders that are the first ones in to the fight are the ones that other people will gladly jump to their death with. Not the politicians that hide behind their members guns. ThatĘs why your members are not motivated to fight. They donĘt have that respect for you that comes with leading the fleet.
Try it sometime. There's no shame in dieing if it's for a bigger cause and it will earn you respect from within. And you never know, you might actually like it. Stranger things have happened. 
The truth will set you free
* Proud to be ATUK * |
Ben Derindar
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Posted - 2005.06.20 23:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: TornSoul
You where the ones saying that you would shoot *us* (and any other neutrals) - If we entered into ASCN space. Dont play the innocent here.
How many 0.0 alliances out there permit the presence of neutrals within the territory that they claim? Does FA?
Just a thought.
/Ben
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.06.20 23:27:00 -
[37]
Originally by: TornSoul
Fun and logic dont always add up. Hell, I've seen people jump of bridges with just a rubber cord tied to their ancles...
about that logic,
the system linking ascn space directly to stain space is about 45 jumps from empire, yet you declare an empire war to make a point, that does not compute
(that and making 40 jumps back and forth between empire and ascn space gets boring after awhile  )
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
CdCommander
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Posted - 2005.06.20 23:39:00 -
[38]
LETS GET IT ON!!!!!!
ASCN FTW
This will be a great change from the mercs we got going in empire atm, anyway for those who hired them, you people whoever did got a crap deal on REQUIEM INC, god dam we found one doing missions.
Lets Keep FA v ASCN Clean people 
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.20 23:40:00 -
[39]
@Metal Dude
No where did I say I dont fight and die like the rest - Only that I dont lead the fights.
And about who ppl respect or not : Well, theres a reason why you are in ATUK and not in FA - and those in FA not in ATUK.
Matter of preferences.
@Rexy
Erm... and who says we cant be in two places at once?
"you declare an empire war to make a point, that does not compute"
What, about making a point, doesnt compute?
It's just that : Making a point.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Dogsta
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Posted - 2005.06.21 00:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: TornSoul
You where the ones saying that you would shoot *us* (and any other neutrals) - If we entered into ASCN space. Dont play the innocent here.
How many 0.0 alliances out there permit the presence of neutrals within the territory that they claim? Does FA?
Just a thought.
/Ben
well just fyi, for the longest time FA allowed many neutrals to pass thru our systems, and to hunt in our space. there was a modest fee(at least if you were npc'ng) but times have changed, and FA has changed, as most of eve is/has changed. Who we fight, How we fight, When we choose to fight will be on our terms now, not at the whim of our adversaries. if you come to our core systems, you most undoubtably notice the majority of personal there either safe spot-log out, and or stay docked. most of our esteemed adversaries will say this is becuase we are weak, or we are cowardly. what I will tell you is, like most alliances we have quite a few people who make things, and mine, and npc, and of course agent run. these will most likly be the people in our core systems, as the mojority of our pvp'rs will be out looking for things to do, not sitting in our core systems waiting for the next blob of sheep to decide to sit in yz-lql. We will hunt what our enemies hunt, its a very simple thing no?
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kbullet
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Posted - 2005.06.21 00:28:00 -
[41]
Good luck and mainly have fun FA!
---
Give me liberty or give me death! |
Steel Rat
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Posted - 2005.06.21 00:28:00 -
[42]
Well now, wasn't that easy Torn? All this crazy ass bs for the last 2 weeks and alls I had to do was pull out my box of crayons and you got it on the first drawing. :)
Altho I think you are being a little nutz. I mean war deccing someone because they want to keep neutral? Hell, next time I am going to offer to set you to -10, wonder what that gets us.
Kind of funny, we were just sitting in the corner minding our own business and FA has to come along and make our day.
Steel Rat
ASCN Chief Oppressor
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.21 00:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Steel Rat
Well now, wasn't that easy Torn? All this crazy ass bs for the last 2 weeks and alls I had to do was pull out my box of crayons and you got it on the first drawing. :)
I think that pic is going down in EVE history
Originally by: Steel Rat
I mean war deccing someone because they want to keep neutral?
How neutral are you to SE?
You are *not* neutral.
By the shear fact of the obstacle youve put in our way - You can not be.
You can say it a 1000 times if you will - It still doesnt make it true.
You can only claim true neutrailty in the conflict between FA and SE if
- You set SE to neutral (with all what that entails - ie. them, as us, not allowed in your space) -or-
- Allow us to go after SE in your space, without you interfering (ie. shooting us - Because netruals are not allowed in your space)
It's one of the two.
Do that - And you can claim neutrality, and the war goes away.
BIG Lottery
[u |
KSUDruid
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Posted - 2005.06.21 01:06:00 -
[44]
Originally by: TornSoul
How neutral are you to SE?
Uh, well, for starters We've let you two just fight it out. About a month ago we were kinda rolling dice on who to attack, and I think you're kidding yourself if you thought FA's head wasn't on the chopping block. We decided we didn't really have any interest in the fight you and SE had going on, so we stayed out of it. We instead looked north for some fun.
SE is +5 to ASCN, we're +5 to them. They like to pass through our area, we like to hunt in theirs. That's basically it. If you see us just wandering around ignoring your little war going on, great, if you thought we were going to get involved in that war, lol, we really have better things to do.
I must congratulate you on forcing the issue though. I kind of ***** up thinking of this picture I found in a book the other day of a bunny rabbit putting a stapler over a sleeping dogs tail, then proceeding to jump on it. I'm gonna start a "This is tornsoul, copy him into your signature to help him on his way to world domination." See the similarities?
-Druid "Civis Ascendant"
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Leto VanTong
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Posted - 2005.06.21 01:09:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Leto VanTong on 21/06/2005 01:10:23
Originally by: TornSoul
You wouldnt - Fair enough.
So now we simply remove it ourself.
It's truly that simple.
Remove the obstactle - and the war goes away.
Does "removing things ourself" actually mean "sending a few ships to safespot in your territory"? Because thats pretty much all weve seen in central Stain from FA.
Welcome to the "Toursoul-war-dec'ed-me-for-a-lame-reason" club. |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.21 01:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: KSUDruid
They like to pass through our area
Erm yes - Excactly...
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Originally by: Leto VanTong
Welcome to the "Toursoul-war-dec'ed-me-for-a-lame-reason" club.
You seem to suffer under the misconception that this was my decission all alone?
And for it beeing a lame reason - Who are you to judge?
If it's good enough a reason for us - Then thats all that matters.
Now go troll somewhere else.
BIG Lottery
[u |
KSUDruid
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Posted - 2005.06.21 01:45:00 -
[47]
We pass through their area, they pass through ours? Uhh... so?
Don't get me wrong my official reaction to FA wardeccing us was a big fat LOL, I'm still just awestruck that you decide to walk over and kick the 400 pound bouncer in the corner in the chins and then claim it's to keep us out of the fight.
-Druid "Civis Ascendant"
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.06.21 01:52:00 -
[48]
Scenario:
1. FA consider ASCN defending their own space from incursions of non-blue as "being an obstacle".
2. FA empire-war-dec "the obstacle".
3. Obstacle appears in FA space.
Good thing I didn't throw away all my Fountain bookmarks, I do think most of them work even if many precede FA itself.
Bad call FA council
¼©¼
a history |
Voltron
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Posted - 2005.06.21 01:52:00 -
[49]
I have no idea who to root for  , I dont like either alliance........ah well, have fun with it gents.
Volt
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.21 02:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: KSUDruid
We pass through their area, they pass through ours? Uhh... so?
C'mon KSUDruid - I know you're smarter than that - We've had our talks in the past.
But I'll spell it out *once more*
What happens if FA enters ASCN space (to persue&kill SE pilots there)?
Maybe you need to take a look at Steel Rats excellent picture as well.
You've said you'd shoot our boys down if/when they did that.
Guess what - We wont just accept getting shot at by you - We shoot back.
And we already got empire wars - So why not give our boys a little extra to shoot at while we're at it.
All this could so easily have been avoided (and still can - check my two points above! Really thought that would be clear enough for everyone) if only you hadnt kept sticking your head in the ground claiming "We are neutral"
You are damn well not neutral when our enemies can enter your space, and you refuse us to follow and kill them - Under penalty of shooting us down if we do.
*How on earth* the lot of you can keep saying that is beeing neutral is beyond me.
Playing shield for our enemies is not beeing neutral - So can we *please* cut that line out already - It's getting extremly thin...
You are *not* neutral.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Adhamhnon
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Posted - 2005.06.21 02:20:00 -
[51]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: KSUDruid
We pass through their area, they pass through ours? Uhh... so?
C'mon KSUDruid - I know you're smarter than that - We've had our talks in the past.
But I'll spell it out *once more*
What happens if FA enters ASCN space (to persue&kill SE pilots there)?
Maybe you need to take a look at Steel Rats excellent picture as well.
You've said you'd shoot our boys down if/when they did that.
Guess what - We wont just accept getting shot at by you - We shoot back.
And we already got empire wars - So why not give our boys a little extra to shoot at while we're at it.
All this could so easily have been avoided (and still can - check my two points above! Really thought that would be clear enough for everyone) if only you hadnt kept sticking your head in the ground claiming "We are neutral"
You are damn well not neutral when our enemies can enter your space, and you refuse us to follow and kill them - Under penalty of shooting us down if we do.
*How on earth* the lot of you can keep saying that is beeing neutral is beyond me.
Playing shield for our enemies is not beeing neutral - So can we *please* cut that line out already - It's getting extremly thin...
You are *not* neutral.
And I'll spell it out once more for you. Quoted from Krapz from a chat log he had with you. (And he even said it only 1 page ago.)
"What I said was, if SE continually retreats to our space, then we will close it down completely OR we would open it up to all involved parties."
What you're doing is attacking someone for something they haven't even done yet, and using it as an excuse. What you wanted was to exert a little "FA muscle" on us through threats to get us to do what you wanted. When we didn't, you try to intimidate with a war dec and keep saying "But you can end it right now, by doing what we want you to." Then you try and pass it off on the forums that we are being unreasonable about the whole thing. Nobody is buying it.
I'm happy to say that you haven't intimidated us into doing what you want. Cause we were hungry for a target that actually had some real estate of their own, and you just went to the top of the list. See you in Fountain.
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.21 02:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Adhamhnon
And I'll spell it out once more for you. Quoted from Krapz from a chat log he had with you. (And he even said it only 1 page ago.)
"What I said was, if SE continually retreats to our space, then we will close it down completely OR we would open it up to all involved parties."
If you bother to read the thread, you'll see I've answered that already.
Your (ASCN) continued repeating of things (over and over and...) *still* doesnt make them true.
Originally by: Adhamhnon
What you wanted was to exert a little "FA muscle" on us through threats to get us to do what you wanted. When we didn't, you try to intimidate with a war dec and keep saying "But you can end it right now, by doing what we want you to."
Well yes?
You put down an obstacle to us.
We didnt like it, and asked you to remove it, or we would ourself.
Whats so strange (and apparently 'nasty') about that concept???
Originally by: Adhamhnon
Then you try and pass it off on the forums that we are being unreasonable about the whole thing. Nobody is buying it.
Err no... I've several times said "Fair game" (that you didnt want to remove what we saw as an obstacle to us)
What I *am* calling unreasonable on your part, is your continued claim about beeing neutral.
That my friend, is what nobody is buying.
Originally by: Adhamhnon
I'm happy to say that you haven't intimidated us into doing what you want.
Well you knew the consequences, I'm glad your happy about the outcome.
Maybe we should just have skipped the first part and gone straight to a war dec?
You where given fair notice of what would happen unless the situation was resolved - Dont come complaining about that now.
BIG Lottery
[u |
jamesw
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Posted - 2005.06.21 02:45:00 -
[53]
Sorry, I must be dumb or something, because this really appears so simple to me. I just plain do not undersdand what all the fuss is about on ASCN's part...
I do not see how someone (ASCN) can be neutral to a conflict (SE vs FA), if they are friends (SE = +5) of one party and not the other.
Can someone from ASCN please explain this for me?
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.06.21 02:49:00 -
[54]
We didn't engage FA fleets in Stain or Fountain or neutral space.
Good enough jamesw?
¼©¼
a history |
Ben Derindar
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Posted - 2005.06.21 02:56:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dogsta
Originally by: Ben Derindar
How many 0.0 alliances out there permit the presence of neutrals within the territory that they claim? Does FA?
well just fyi, for the longest time FA allowed many neutrals to pass thru our systems, and to hunt in our space. there was a modest fee(at least if you were npc'ng) but times have changed, and FA has changed, as most of eve is/has changed.
I remember - as a wide-eyed youngster I used to spend days on end exploring the wonders of 0.0 whilst my comrades would mine kernite in Empire. When I passed through Fountain in my little condor, there were no confrontations, and after a short while I moved on with a positive impression of that region and its inhabitants.
However, none of that matters now. As you say, times have changed. My original question was worded in the present tense, not in the past.
Originally by: Dogsta
Who we fight, How we fight, When we choose to fight will be on our terms now, not at the whim of our adversaries.
So it would seem.
Though from my personal experience, in all the time I've spent in Impass and Feythabolis to date, I have seen a total of one (1) SE pilot in local. Granted, I don't usually operate during peak hours, but still, that hardly sounds like an entire alliance running for the safety of another, does it?
/Ben
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.21 02:59:00 -
[56]
Interesting choise of words Riddari
Wouldnt :
"We didn't engage FA or SE fleets in Stain or Fountain or neutral space."
have been more suitable words for someone claiming neutrality....
BIG Lottery
[u |
jamesw
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Posted - 2005.06.21 03:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Riddari
We didn't engage FA fleets in Stain or Fountain or neutral space.
Good enough jamesw?
Not quite... Getting there, perhaps I will rephrase the question.
How can you allow one party entry into your space and not the other, while still claiming you are neutral?
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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DeathGrip
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Posted - 2005.06.21 03:08:00 -
[58]
Edited by: DeathGrip on 21/06/2005 03:13:37
This is how i feel, not sure about others.
You declare this war so that we will let you into our space so you can kill stain. Well now I don't think that will work, it will only **** us off more. So now you have stain and us, and you still can't come in our space.
[i]Everyone needs to bring PVP to the table, Miners, Builders, Researchers, Get yourself a Frig, and help out some, You may even |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.21 03:09:00 -
[59]
@Ben Derindar
Thanks much for the confirmation (not that *we* need it).
Dunno if Krapz will still need fraps before believing it...
Your fond memories of times past in Fountain, makes me happier than you would probably believe.
Sadly - Times have changed...
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.06.21 03:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: DeathGrip
This is how i feel, not sure about others.
You have mentioned we can get rid of this war if we do what you want. LOL Please don't do us any favors. WHy would we let somone who declared war on us in our space later on.
Actually - We never asked for that...
Option 1 of my above post was all we wanted.
As I've said elsewhere - We wanted to *contain* the conflict, and not spread it to ASCN space as well.
But alas...
BIG Lottery
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