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James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3401	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:24:00 - [31] - Quote Nerath Naaris wrote: Ghazu wrote: hey guys guys i am like pretty rich now i don't even have to rat anymore but i still need to rat for sec status how about passive sec status regen? You will soon(tm) be able to buy tags for security status (tags4sec, according to the minutes), how about that? Given how little security status means anyway, I don't see why that's a problem. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm Want to enable BBcode on the forums? Here's how.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 13684	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:25:00 - [32] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Mag's wrote: Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Mag's wrote: No, I feel grinding for SP is unacceptable. You want that type of system, then go elsewhere. So it's acceptable to grind unless it involves SP? Why is that? Because SP isn't the be all and end all of Eve. It's only one part and works very well as it stands right now. Plus any type of system like this, is open for abuse. This is why it didn't last long the first time it was introduced early on in Eve's life. Also, there is only grind in Eve, if you want there to be grind in Eve. This promotes it and is wrong for that fact. How is adding a small 250-500 points weekly/monthly a "be all and end all of eve." Adding implants which are acquired through isk, do they share the same fate? Because it's something not open to all, whereas Implants are. Just because someone chooses not to invest in Implants, doesn't mean they cannot. But many players cannot invest large quantities of game time, as real life messes with it. Any system that require grind, becomes a burden to game play. The lack of grind in Eve, is why I've kept playing it for 9 years. Why do you ignore the fact we had this once and it was abused. Do you honestly think it would be again? CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Operations 3311	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:25:00 - [33] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: This would mostly benefit the botters, so no. PvP now has botters? You included PvE Combat in your original post. But I'm not surprised you 'forgot'. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's
Aston Martin DB5 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:26:00 - [34] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Mag's wrote: Hell no. Grind is not acceptable. So you feel pvp is grinding or doing things that earn your character isk is as well? These are things all players engage in EVE. Why not reward them for doing it and give players more control of their characters' progression. A Market alt or PI centric toon would earn nothing.....ever. Bad idea is bad idea. Market toon shouldn't be rewarded. Promoting people flying their spaceships and blowing stuff up should because they're engaging with other players in a "MMO." Not saying making isk through the market is bad.
Aston Martin DB5 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:27:00 - [35] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: This would mostly benefit the botters, so no. PvP now has botters? You included PvE Combat in your original post. But I'm not surprised you 'forgot'. I did forget and it wasn't intentional. Maybe you forgot about the AI update. PVP/PVE have botters? ^^ there ya go
baltec1 Bat Country 4812	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:27:00 - [36] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Nerath Naaris wrote: This would mostly benefit the botters, so no. PvP now has botters? Find a quiet Lowsec system with station, park a destroyer in a safe spot, get your neutral alt to warp their ibis to your safespot and alpha it. Repeat untill you run out of ammo. Welcome to the world of the top 100 killers in EVE. PVE wise there are lvl 5 mission bots.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 13686	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:28:00 - [37] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: A Market alt or PI centric toon would earn nothing.....ever. Bad idea is bad idea. Market toon shouldn't be rewarded. Promoting people flying their spaceships and blowing stuff up should because they're engaging with other players in a "MMO." Not saying making isk through the market is bad. They are taking part in PvP, why shouldn't they be rewarded also? CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Operations 3316	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:28:00 - [38] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Mag's wrote: Hell no. Grind is not acceptable. So you feel pvp is grinding or doing things that earn your character isk is as well? These are things all players engage in EVE. Why not reward them for doing it and give players more control of their characters' progression. A Market alt or PI centric toon would earn nothing.....ever. Bad idea is bad idea. Market toon shouldn't be rewarded. Promoting people flying their spaceships and blowing stuff up should because they're engaging with other players in a "MMO." Not saying making isk through the market is bad. Wow. You have no concept of this game at all. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 13686	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:29:00 - [39] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: You included PvE Combat in your original post. But I'm not surprised you 'forgot'. I did forget and it wasn't intentional. Maybe you forgot about the AI update. PVP/PVE have botters? ^^ there ya go PvE does now, PvP would with this change. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Aston Martin DB5 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:33:00 - [40] - Quote Mag's wrote: Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Mag's wrote: Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Mag's wrote: No, I feel grinding for SP is unacceptable. You want that type of system, then go elsewhere. So it's acceptable to grind unless it involves SP? Why is that? Because SP isn't the be all and end all of Eve. It's only one part and works very well as it stands right now. Plus any type of system like this, is open for abuse. This is why it didn't last long the first time it was introduced early on in Eve's life. Also, there is only grind in Eve, if you want there to be grind in Eve. This promotes it and is wrong for that fact. How is adding a small 250-500 points weekly/monthly a "be all and end all of eve." Adding implants which are acquired through isk, do they share the same fate? Because it's something not open to all, whereas Implants are. Just because someone chooses not to invest in Implants, doesn't mean they cannot. But many players cannot invest large quantities of game time, as real life messes with it. Any system that require grind, becomes a burden to game play. The lack of grind in Eve, is why I've kept playing it for 9 years. Why do you ignore the fact we had this once and it was abused. Do you honestly think it would be again? Abused because maybe it was poorly implemented? Why are we throwing around "large quantities of game time" maybe blowing up 1 ship in a month just gained you 25 points to apply or something> ? System that requires grind? No new system is being implemented other than adding a bonus to things players enjoy in the game currently: blowing up ships.

Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Operations 3316	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:34:00 - [41] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: System that requires grind? No new system is being implemented other than adding a bonus to things players enjoy in the game currently: blowing up ships. Someone wants a lolly for blowing up a ship America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's
Vagilicious Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:35:00 - [42] - Quote Whilst I agree in principle that this wouldn't be a good thing for Eve, a certain other CCP game that ties into Eve does exactly this. (And I hope I'm not breaching NDA by saying that, this information is available freely in the forum subsection for this game). If a system like this was to be considered, then it should be capped so that when a player reaches, say, 5m SP the extra SP acquisition stops. This would stop the mechanic being abused while at the same time giving new players a bit of a leg up, and wouldn't benefit older players at all. This would also benefit CCP - their online player count would rise, and it might sway new players into staying if they feel that they can achieve a few extra ponts by actually playing.
Lovely Dumplings Lambda Mining 42	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:41:00 - [43] - Quote Whenever you have the next big great idea for EVE, think like this "What would happen if this mechanic were exploited to the point of absurdity?" That's what an EVE player will do. Here's some back of napkin figures. Assuming your average missioner can kill one rat every 5 seconds, that equals to around 12 rats a minute. That's 720 rats an hour. 1380 rats a day. 41,400 rats a month. If we value each rat at 5SP, that'd run out to a total of 207,000 SP a month. So, lets nerf it. 0.5SP per kill. 20,700SP a month. I'm likely wrong, but a perfect skillplan with perfect implants is what, 25-30mil SP a year? Granted, those are "pulled out of my ass" numbers, but you really have to think that way with MMO mechanics. Someone will take it right to the wall, so you start figuring from there, and work back to see if it's even feasible.
Aston Martin DB5 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:42:00 - [44] - Quote Vagilicious wrote: Whilst I agree in principle that this wouldn't be a good thing for Eve, a certain other CCP game that ties into Eve does exactly this. (And I hope I'm not breaching NDA by saying that, this information is available freely in the forum subsection for this game). If a system like this was to be considered, then it should be capped so that when a player reaches, say, 5m SP the extra SP acquisition stops. This would stop the mechanic being abused while at the same time giving new players a bit of a leg up, and wouldn't benefit older players at all. I Still feel that all players should benefit because adding 25 - 500 points shouldn't amount too much for a character with 40+ million sp's.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Operations 3316	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:42:00 - [45] - Quote Vagilicious wrote: Whilst I agree in principle that this wouldn't be a good thing for Eve, a certain other CCP game that ties into Eve does exactly this. (And I hope I'm not breaching NDA by saying that, this information is available freely in the forum subsection for this game). If a system like this was to be considered, then it should be capped so that when a player reaches, say, 5m SP the extra SP acquisition stops. This would stop the mechanic being abused while at the same time giving new players a bit of a leg up, and wouldn't benefit older players at all. This would also benefit CCP - their online player count would rise, and it might sway new players into staying if they feel that they can achieve a few extra ponts by actually playing. This is a great argument, but I still cannot agree. I stayed with EVE only once I realized how difficult it was. This breaks that core concept of EVE's difficulty utterly for a beginner. I may have stayed away or given up because other starting noobs were doing a lot more Combat than I, as I prefer other things. It is too unbalanced. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Operations 3317	Posted - 2013.01.18 19:14:00 - [46] - Quote I believe you are alone in here OP. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's
Cowboy Nuggets Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.01.18 19:53:00 - [47] - Quote Ghazu wrote: hey guys guys i am like pretty rich now i don't even have to rat anymore but i still need to rat for sec status how about passive sec status regen? Hells yeah get rid of sec status grind!
Kamden Line Lightbringer's Sanctuary RAZOR Alliance 75	Posted - 2013.01.18 20:10:00 - [48] - Quote I remeber back in the day when there WAS no skill queue. You have no idea how annoying it was to get up at 1 in the morning in to change skills over.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 13688	Posted - 2013.01.18 20:34:00 - [49] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Abused because maybe it was poorly implemented? Why are we throwing around "large quantities of game time" maybe blowing up 1 ship in a month just gained you 25 points to apply or something> ? System that requires grind? No new system is being implemented other than adding a bonus to things players enjoy in the game currently: blowing up ships. Yes abused. PvE is being abused, mining is being abused. Are they poorly implemented? No, it's just the nature of getting something, when automation is possible. If it is possible, then people will automate it. If you add a system that means you gain SP from an action, it becomes a grind mechanic. As it stand right now, the skill system is fair and open to all. With the removal of learning skills and the inclusion of attribute remaps, we now train far faster then ever. (yes I'm aware of the slight drop, but this only affected those with 5/5 learning) Your idea will punish those without extra free time and reward those with. Any mechanic like this doesn't solve any problem, but creates many. Eve is a non-grinding, no-level, class-less, passive-ability, real-time progression game, so you shouldn't be able to train things faster no matter what repetition you do. If faster speeds are your thing, buy implants. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Warp Planet6 Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2013.01.18 20:39:00 - [50] - Quote Thgil Goldcore wrote: You as a person is the one who 'levels up' as it where, not your character. This. Character development is fine.

Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions 155	Posted - 2013.01.18 20:41:00 - [51] - Quote No! I played games with SP or XP for grind before and all you do there is grinding SP for MONTHS until you are level 80 or whatever. And if you are finally there, after MONTHS of killing boars and picking 10 flowers you realize that this was the game and all you can do now is dueling other tards that fell for the same stupid game. NO! I actually enjoyed to be able to PLAY THE GAME from minute one. And to actually have a game whose purpose isn't grinding ****. Also this is EVE, experience in the game mechanics are actually 100x more important that SP. You will soon realize that if you stop watching your skill progressbar and start playing the game. tl;dr EVE is that endgame that wasn't in that other game but you tried to reach anyway while killing boars.
Brooks Puuntai Solar Nexus. 1044	Posted - 2013.01.18 20:44:00 - [52] - Quote Doesn't really "fit" Eve, but isn't a terrible idea.
Hendrik Tiberius Avatar Research Nightshade Equilibrium 6	Posted - 2013.01.18 20:52:00 - [53] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Vagilicious wrote: Whilst I agree in principle that this wouldn't be a good thing for Eve, a certain other CCP game that ties into Eve does exactly this. (And I hope I'm not breaching NDA by saying that, this information is available freely in the forum subsection for this game). If a system like this was to be considered, then it should be capped so that when a player reaches, say, 5m SP the extra SP acquisition stops. This would stop the mechanic being abused while at the same time giving new players a bit of a leg up, and wouldn't benefit older players at all. I Still feel that all players should benefit because adding 25 - 500 points monthly shouldn't amount too much for a character with 40+ million sp's. So you want an amount of sp added (through some kind of activity) that is small enough to make no real difference? Then we could as well not have that system since it makes little or no difference. I believe enough arguments have been presented against sp gain that would make a difference.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 1829	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:14:00 - [54] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2330084 <--- (the last thread on this subject) tl;dr... Active skills... - encourage grinding (you are currently not forced to grind up anything in EVE except for standings... even ISK can be gained quite easily if you know what to do) - active training rewards certain player activities and completely ignores others (rewards ratters, miners, industrials, probes, etc... doesn't reward corp leaders, spies, logistics, managers, scouts, etc). - can be horribly, horribly abused (the server will not be able to differentiate two alts shooting at each other in the middle of space, afk, with infinite tanks and lasers... versus two evenly matched ships with infinite tanks and lasers that are mortal enemies of each other). - if you make the amount of SP gained too small... it won't be worthwhile to even code in. - if you make the amount of SP gained high enough... it will become a tangible enough advantage that it becomes "mandatory" to grind up skills... otherwise you'll be "left behind." -- this means people will be more preoccupied with getting "max skills" than playing the damn game. --- you will have to grind for years to get max skills in everything (it takes 20+ years to get max skills in everything with the current system).... and people will TRY. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Noriko Mai 757	Posted - 2013.01.18 22:49:00 - [55] - Quote LOL. Go away OP
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 280	Posted - 2013.01.19 01:01:00 - [56] - Quote SP isn't used like XP is in other games, and therefore it deserves no such treatment. NO. You are confusing SP with LP and ISK. Those are fine 'activity' rewards. Its knowledge and assets that make you competative on the field, not your SP. I very much enjoy the thought I can do more stuff over time, and do it more often if I PVE a little harder. The current system allows the 'student to surpass the master' by sheer specialization. I consider this to be a role-defining characteristic of the SP system, it contributes to fleet variation and identity.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 12734	Posted - 2013.01.19 01:11:00 - [57] - Quote Horrible idea in every way imaginable. It does not address any kind of problem. It promotes not actually playing the game and instead performing menial tasks to grind progress. It is not equitably available, and it particularly benefits botters. In short, it rewards harmful player behaviour for absolutely no good reason whatsoever and with no gain to gameplay. It was tried; it sucked in exactly these ways; it was abandoned for a good reason. One of the main beauties of the EVE skill system is that it does not cater to this kind of unimaginative non-gameplay, but rather lets people actually play the game instead of forcing them to concern themselves with irrelevant and pointless grind mechanics. In short, and without being too unkind about the whole thingGÇª sod off. Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
Tesal 170	Posted - 2013.01.19 02:56:00 - [58] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Market toon shouldn't be rewarded. Promoting people flying their spaceships and blowing stuff up should because they're engaging with other players in a "MMO." Not saying making isk through the market is bad. I pay my sub just like everyone else. Why should I be deprived of skill points?
Lugia3 Pirates Incorporated 252	Posted - 2013.01.21 10:33:00 - [59] - Quote Nope. Give drones some love: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176396&#post2176396
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7266	Posted - 2013.01.21 10:53:00 - [60] - Quote Aston Martin DB5 wrote: Not sure if this topic has been discussed before but I was wondering how the community felt on improving the current skill training process. Currently adding things to queue is quite bland if you ask me. Why not implement a system which rewards players for doing activities while online such as pvp combat, pve combat, etc. How the player could be rewarded is a SP bar which players earn doing certain activities and at the end of each week/month players can spend these points on skills they like. Now obviously it wouldn't amount to 1million being applied weekly or monthly but maybe a max of 500 points. Not only would this benefit current players but it would definitely help new players as well feel as if their character is progressing in a meaningful way. No flaming and please provide constructive feedback as to why or why not this would help/hurt current game mechanics. Skillbots. Or just loading up a single laser, orbiting an asteroid and going to work... The great thing about EVE's skill system is that you DONT have to skillgrind. Why would you want to add skill grinding? Because make no mistake, that's what you're proposing here. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread



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