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Super spikinator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:No More Heroes wrote:Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:People always try to claim how sandboxy EVE is, but the sandbox only barely begins if you are in a player corp and/or leave high sec. So join a player corp and leave highsec  Well, I would, but I haven't had an SA account for 3 months yet... plus I only lurk there.
fleet up with some of the coalition partners, talk to other goons, maybe send a few contracts their way on the cheap. make yourself noticeable to them and they will notice you and maybe somebody might care enough to sponsor you. |

Daniel Whateley
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 02:40:00 -
[92] - Quote
There isn't a way to make solo pvpers more welcome in eve, everything you do can be turned against them, the only way you can overcome being able to solo, is lots of practice like 100-200 losses not feeding but knowledgeable losses, if you didn't learn something it wasn't worth it, youll then learn how to fit your ship correctly, don't look on battleclinic or any other site for ship fits 90% of the time people have no idea what they fitted themselves, learn it from an actual soloer who has had success with it, and ask questions, knowing your ship types is most important, you know what damage types to deal to rats impliment that into player ships, research their weaknesses, fly them fit and them different ways, find out which one for instance caps out, or is hard to get a thermal resist on.... it just takes time, but most of our skill queues are set up for 2 years anyway.... |

Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
746
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 03:43:00 -
[93] - Quote
The invention of the falcon is a pretty sure sign that solo pvp is done by the extremely lucky or foolish. --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |

Scaramanga Erquilenne
40
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 03:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
Good post OP , If there statistics are correct and the majority of players are single players who lurk in space .Then it would make no business sense for ccp not to engage them are give them some kind of meaningful voice in shaping the future of EVE. Even if they just make 15% they should still have a voice. Never thought of my self as a lurker i am normally busy doing stuff in space when i play this game.
I don't understand the hostility some people harbour on this forum for those who's play style and interaction with EVE differs to theirs, they seem to view it as a threat .There is plenty room in EVE for people who like to fly solo and those who want to interact more with other players and yes at its heart eve is a social game and is best played that way.But every one who plays EVE interacts with it in many ways , its just some people don't want to fly in groups are belong to corps.
I am only 4 months in to EVE and i am a casual player and solo and enjoy it and due to reasons beyond my control i cant use a mic most nights.I have no interest in blob warfare are corp politics are having to fit in with other peoples time frames , not saying its bad its just not for me.There are things like RVB are FW which i will look to to for some PVP action with other players outside of random encounters and attacks and exploration. And no i don't want a safe high sec)
Having browsed the forums for a few months there seems to be a great deal of mistrust amongst players and corps,And numerous threads were people revel in the fact some one has deceived another player.Again not saying this is bad and not saying change it, as its the Nature of EVE and its what most people love about it.But maybe a fallout of that is a ever growing number of players who decide they wont trust anyone in this game and developing a solo mindset towards Eve, maybe EVEs reputation is catching up with it .
But back to the point, yes as a solo casual player it would nice if future expansions and meetings included content and contributions from us solo lurkers as well as others.
We need a Lurker Leader to let are voice be heard from the dark little corners of space we lurk in 
I vote for the OP) You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist-á |

Super spikinator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 04:04:00 -
[95] - Quote
Spurty wrote:The invention of the falcon is a pretty sure sign that solo pvp is done by the extremely lucky or foolish.
I remember when the falcon first came out. It was hilarious trying to see people justify an ECM boat that could sit up to 200km away (though most sat about 125-150km) from a gate. None of the other ewar boats could do that. |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1079
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 07:52:00 -
[96] - Quote
Name Family Name wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.
I remember you - you were that moron advocating CQ/WIS. Yes - I play mostly solo. That doesn't mean I like spacebarbies online, highsec l4s or highsec insursions.
I am still advocating WiS because, no matter how dead is that horse, it still is the difference between EVE reaching the 20th year or collapsing along the way.
With FiS growing in complexity, stagnation and catastrophic failure are the natural consequences of everything that adds to its complexity. Sooner than later, there will come a "iteration" that's too much to chew or fails horribly.
So without WiS, there is no way EVE can acquire enough complexity to keep attracting players without wasting itself in the process.
That doesn't canges that more FiS content for soloers and casuals is needed, and it can be acquired sooner and quicker than WiS.
(BTW, the last we knew about WiS, was the "prototype" of it as another big F-You to soloers, +á la Incursions) CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |

Washichu May
Psilocybin Research
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 09:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
That's not so surprising, really. Power projection in 0.0 works too well, there is no breathing space in 0.0 for small entities, which basically means that you have to chose which of the feudal lords you want to serve. Whatever happened of small corporations geeking it out on their own. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3254
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 09:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Washichu May wrote:That's not so surprising, really. Power projection in 0.0 works too well, there is no breathing space in 0.0 for small entities, which basically means that you have to chose which of the feudal lords you want to serve. Whatever happened of small corporations geeking it out on their own. They decided to kill people and became the HONEYBADGERCOALITION and then started shooting elitepvpers Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3254
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 09:09:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I am still advocating WiS because, no matter how dead is that horse, it still is the difference between EVE reaching the 20th year or collapsing along the way. Yeah, waste enough resources and it'll collapse along the way.
EVE is already dying, trying to bleed it out further, well... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Super spikinator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 09:17:00 -
[100] - Quote
Washichu May wrote:That's not so surprising, really. Power projection in 0.0 works too well, there is no breathing space in 0.0 for small entities, which basically means that you have to chose which of the feudal lords you want to serve. Whatever happened of small corporations geeking it out on their own.
Well, let us see CCPs track record for helping out small alliances in EvE.
They removed Drone alloys They added moons and then changed the primary moon goo needed to a uncommon/rare moon that is almost exclusively found in the north They added Dominion in general which made the entire sov based on mega structures that have to be destroyed by large amounts of supercapitals to get the job done within any appreciable time frame They brought in black ops cyno ships that totally will never be used by larger coalitions, no siree. They added large anomalies that have phenomenal amounts of ore in them. With enough trit in them to almost make nothing needed to the get up and go alliance. POS structures require a very beautiful mind still to set up and maintain. Man the list goes on and on. CCP really tries to make it easy for new alliances to form up in nullsec on their own.
Not surprising that the majority of the coalitions tell you just to join up with one of them (there are like 5 or so to choose from) since they just don't want you to have all the easy stuff in the list I just showed.
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DbjaBol
Anonymous Operations Red Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 10:00:00 -
[101] - Quote
why is what? where have you got this information? terrible solo gameplay is so bad. its like working in office like a tard and thinking this is so much fun.
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Dave Stark
1629
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 10:41:00 -
[102] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Dave Stark wrote:by incentive i mean a reason to want to go out of your way and spend time with other players. take miners for example (mainly because i am one) what benefit do i get by mining with other people?
erm, none.
most of the common argument is "but then your orca pilot can mine too, you get an extra miner!" which, is entirely false. because all my orca pilot does is end up hauling, which it was doing anyway while providing boosts. i've gained nothing.
where as, on the flip side, you end up sharing a belt/system with some one else who's basically taking food from your table. as it stands mining kinda promotes being as antisocial as possible. hiding in some quiet unloved corner of space sitting on a pile of rocks like some kind of space dragon and telling people to "get off my land" like some kind of redneck famer. all in all, the activity itself promotes being antisocial and isolated. Well, you can be pretty much social if they're not minng the same minerals as you do... 
that just means you're half clearing belts and spend more time warping between said belts, or to new systems. the only players who benefit from mining in a group are players with one or maybe two accounts who don't have an orca.
this is why, as much as i am going to hate it, when ccp remove 100% refining from npc stations it will make miners a *little* bit more social. sure, there's still no reason to do the whole mining thing with any one, and they'll still be antisocial as hell while earning isk. however it will force them to join player corps if 100% refining is moved to a pos, or out to 0.0 to get 100% refining and more lucrative ores. it still however, doesn't address the core issue that mining as a group is a stupid thing to do because it has no gains for any one. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3707
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:04:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:yes exactly, more tools like pvp flag on in highsec and wis for the op's emoting character where he can dress up with a bunch of dudes and emote each other.
Considering emoting and dancing brings in a lot of crowd it might actually be a business to implement those toy features. But it needs to be made well, and CCP are just terrible at making quick, catchy and effective things like those. I still recall the terrible gear available for Aurum for otrageous prices... and some ****** off CCP boasting his $1500 pants.
That's the quickest way to get a revolt (which happened), not to implement an easy cash cow like other MMOs have done. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
365
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
In my mind solo play has no substantial place in a MMO and it baffles me when people try to convince me otherwise.
I've always expect MMOs to get people playing together, building communities, having fun and even expanding beyond the boundaries of the games.
This is why I never got into WoW (yeah another wow reference)
I joined because a bunch of friends were playing it but they were all level 60.
So I started working my way up, every so often one would stop by and drag me up some levels (which wasn't fun for me). When I went looking for others at my level no one else wanted to group to do anything because "they were too busy leveling themselves".
So I soloed through the boredom to level 60 and then lost any interest at all when I realized that all it was was more of the same.
EVE doesn't need more solo activities, it needs more tools and repair work done on the tools we currently have. Some incentive to play together would be an added bonus but this catering to a solo player in a multiplayer game just doesn't make sense to me.
If only there were single player games out there for people that wanted to solo. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3707
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
I will bring in my little case, because I think there are many, many, many like me.
I did the whole hi sec => mining => FW => NPC 0.0 => sov 0.0 => back to hi sec cycle like many others.
I liked every step including the 0.0 bits but now I have got tasks and responsibilities in RL that don't allow me to be a viable member of a decent corp. I could join a null sec "casual" alliance but why? I'd still be stranded and depending on other guys for most logistics, for going out and have a PvP week end and so on. I'd have to live at a POS again (most sh!t experience in any game I have played) since I have a lot of my own stuff going.
Depending on the corp, I'd have to "you are online? You must be on voice comm and IRC". Too much going on at home to do that. And how boring I have done this for years... 95% of the time it's just randomg chit chat, a guy belching every now and then, another linking some stupid pics, another putting some ass stupid commercial bass pumping music up...). Plus I may have to pull the EvE plug any time of the day to do something more important in RL. Also, I may have to not play for some weeks, imagine how good it does to have your undefended stuff sitting weeks out in low sec or null.
ATM I am playing "solo" but I am not solo at all. I am in a public chat called SCC-Lounge. To me the SCC-Lounge chat is my "corp", lots of nice traders in there and they (often) talk exactly of what I like to listen to. Not some random chattering about football, some cheap movie and corpies drama. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Ghazu
507
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:54:00 -
[106] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Name Family Name wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.
I remember you - you were that moron advocating CQ/WIS. Yes - I play mostly solo. That doesn't mean I like spacebarbies online, highsec l4s or highsec insursions. I am still advocating WiS because, no matter how dead is that horse, it still is the difference between EVE reaching the 20th year or collapsing along the way. With FiS growing in complexity, stagnation and catastrophic failure are the natural consequences of everything that adds to its complexity. Sooner than later, there will come a "iteration" that's too much to chew or fails horribly. So without WiS, there is no way EVE can acquire enough complexity to keep attracting players without wasting itself in the process. That doesn't canges that more FiS content for soloers and casuals is needed, and it can be acquired sooner and quicker than WiS. (BTW, the last we knew about WiS, was the "prototype" of it as another big F-You to soloers, +á la Incursions)
but how do you and a bunch of dudes get together and emote each other if you only want solo content?
http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3707
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:55:00 -
[107] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:In my mind solo play has no substantial place in a MMO and it baffles me when people try to convince me otherwise.
I've always expect MMOs to get people playing together, building communities, having fun and even expanding beyond the boundaries of the games.
This is why I never got into WoW (yeah another wow reference)
I joined because a bunch of friends were playing it but they were all level 60.
So I started working my way up, every so often one would stop by and drag me up some levels (which wasn't fun for me). When I went looking for others at my level no one else wanted to group to do anything because "they were too busy leveling themselves".
So I soloed through the boredom to level 60 and then lost any interest at all when I realized that all it was was more of the same.
EVE doesn't need more solo activities, it needs more tools and repair work done on the tools we currently have. Some incentive to play together would be an added bonus but this catering to a solo player in a multiplayer game just doesn't make sense to me.
If only there were single player games out there for people that wanted to solo.
You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1650
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:58:00 -
[108] - Quote
This place is full of WoW witches
Burn the witches Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
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Dave Stark
1629
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:59:00 -
[109] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever.
actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it. leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3707
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 12:07:00 -
[110] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever. actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it. leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters.
Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Dave Stark
1629
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 12:08:00 -
[111] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever. actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it. leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters. Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago.
with recruit a friend bonuses, people have managed to do 1-max level in like 24hrs. /played "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 12:11:00 -
[112] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever. actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it. leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters. Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago. with recruit a friend bonuses, people have managed to do 1-max level in like 24hrs. /played
sounds like a pro-wow player.
|

Dave Stark
1629
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 12:12:00 -
[113] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever. actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it. leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters. Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago. with recruit a friend bonuses, people have managed to do 1-max level in like 24hrs. /played sounds like a pro-wow player.
i think they did it more as an example of how stupid the recruit a friend bonuses were. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1083
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 14:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Ghazu wrote:yes exactly, more tools like pvp flag on in highsec and wis for the op's emoting character where he can dress up with a bunch of dudes and emote each other. Considering emoting and dancing brings in a lot of crowd it might actually be a business to implement those toy features. But it needs to be made well, and CCP are just terrible at making quick, catchy and effective things like those. I still recall the terrible gear available for Aurum for otrageous prices... and some ****** off CCP boasting his $1500 pants. That's the quickest way to get a revolt (which happened), not to implement an easy cash cow like other MMOs have done.
CCP's performance in the whole NEx store issue has been astonishing. Their last move was to half-ass deliver some of the undelivered NEx items through FW LP stores. Because, obviously, PvP nuts are very interested in wearing fancy clothing.
I am quite sure that the idea worked horribly and now in CCP's books the whole "NEx store" is a dead end. The undelivered items will never be delivered and that's all.  CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |

Silindra Hanaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 14:30:00 -
[115] - Quote
The people who play solo are the same ones complaining about mission difficulty and such. It is simple, grab a friend and have him join a mission run with you. You'll find things go alot smoother.
And really? This type of game, everyone should want to play in a Fleet. I mean come on. A giant fleet of BS's, destroyers, BC's and whatnot going into battle? It is your Star Wars / Star Trek fantasy come to life! But people treat this game more like work then any other MMO I've ever played.
Work is never enjoyable ... except for a very few exceptions. |

Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
76
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 14:31:00 -
[116] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:but how do you and a bunch of dudes get together and emote each other if you only want solo content?
There's a big difference between solo / casual players and players that only want solo content (as you obviously know just from reading this thread so far). |

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
130
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 15:03:00 -
[117] - Quote
Its the individuals that make the corps and alliances what they are. In a way everyone is a solo player but having more tools for the individual to create and enhance an organisation is no bad thing. This coming from a mainly solo high sec/low sec player. |

Jayson Kassis
Carbon Industries
26
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 15:17:00 -
[118] - Quote
Solo player's don't want to play solo. This game pushes you in that direction. It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies. There should be more activities that encourage players to play together. Missions, mining and most other activities that aren't pvp related can be achieved solo and there is no point in asking others to do these boring tasks with you. I don't have any interest in chatting up a storm about useless ****. I would rather just get to work.
This is a big part of why people get winded early on playing EvE.
Also, nothing encourages me to get to know people because this game promotes theft, griefing and bad attitudes.
I don't feel safe playing EvE. I don't trust anyone. This is not because I am paranoid or have a hard time trusting people. It's because EvE promotes this and encourages it. It is not logical to play with others who are socially rewarded for abusing, stealing and griefing.
This is an MMO for players who have the pirate mentality. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7266
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 15:20:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.
This.
Don't complain no one listens to you if you can't be bothered to speak up. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7266
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 15:27:00 -
[120] - Quote
Jayson Kassis wrote:Solo player's don't want to play solo. This game pushes you in that direction. It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies. There should be more activities that encourage players to play together. Missions, mining and most other activities that aren't pvp related can be achieved solo and there is no point in asking others to do these boring tasks with you. I don't have any interest in chatting up a storm about useless ****. I would rather just get to work.
This is a big part of why people get winded early on playing EvE.
Also, nothing encourages me to get to know people because this game promotes theft, griefing and bad attitudes.
I don't feel safe playing EvE. I don't trust anyone. This is not because I am paranoid or have a hard time trusting people. It's because EvE promotes this and encourages it. It is not logical to play with others who are socially rewarded for abusing, stealing and griefing.
This is an MMO for players who have the pirate mentality.
I would disagree with your premises there. EVE absolutely and extremely encourages you not to play solo. The rewards for grouping in EVE are absolutely incredible. Even a small group of relatively low power players can easily accomplish things that the richest 160M SP veteran couldn't even attempt solo. EVE is filled with mechanics that practically beat you over the head and say YOU NEED SOME FRIENDS! WHERE ARE YOUR FRIENDS? There is pretty much a straight line correlation to power, wealth and influence with working effectively with other players.
" It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies"
You call it a problem; I call it the central theme of the game. That responsibility is the game. The risks and rewards of that interaction are what it's about. You might as well say that running away from ghosts and eating dots is where the problem lies with PacMan.
Take away that interaction and what have you got? The worst PvE of any MMO in existence, and a mildly diverting market sim. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
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