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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:29:00 -
[1]
-2% grid per level of all turrets and launchers.
Am I the only one thinking this isn't necessary? I'd rather have -3% cpu tbh.
For example:
Megathron can fit 7x 425mm Railgun II's with 2 large accoms on a single pdu. What is the point of dual 250mm, or even 350mm? They have lower damage and lower range, but you could fit more of them a long time ago. Being able to fit 7 of either kind of results in longer range = more damage than shorter range. The complete opposite of what pvp is about.
Similar situations with other battleships, and these are tech II guns I'm talking about. Shouldn't they be meant for tech II battleships? The only way to make this situation better now is to give the crappy shorter range guns of each class more damage, on top of their already higher tracking in a one to one gun comparison just to resemble some balance. Or introduce new harder to fit calibre guns.
All situations mean more damage.
Adv. Weapon Upgrades ftl.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:32:00 -
[2]
actually I thought it was 5% per level.
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:33:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Vishnej on 03/07/2005 07:35:05
I think it's great, because we don't have a grid reduction skill. And grid seems to be a limitting factor in 90% of cases from fitting a proper loadout with the right guns. I'm of the opine that this was intended, and the uniformity of *****ing across all ship classes about it probably proves me right.
But having something like this allows those people to go train something that makes it possible, given time.
I know that for many setups, a 2% reduction would still make fitting the hardest hitting / longest range gun impossible, but it'd be a lot closer.
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DarK
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:37:00 -
[4]
I like it, I always have grid problem on my cruisers, never cpu problems.
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Pesht
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:46:00 -
[5]
It's a great addition to help mitigate the hugely increased power grid use on heavy launchers
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Slaxl
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:47:00 -
[6]
Aye, while you have a point about the grid on the megathron, what will its affect be to other ships? Guy above raises point on him lacking grid on cruisers, so perhaps in a broader pan-eve look it will be more good than not? I'm not too sure, i'm pretty tired and missing obvious things, but might that be the case?
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:50:00 -
[7]
This will finally un-nerf some ships...
---------------
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Vishnej on 03/07/2005 07:53:04
It's not that it doesn't help your megathron, it's that the majority of interesting ship setups using correct sized guns have to gimp something to fit them. The ship that fits all the best weapons possible and still remains remotely practical is the exception to the rule.
I could see a 5%/level bonus being a little... overpowered though.
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Dray
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:11:00 -
[9]
I think the point he's trying to make is that setup is a balancing act atm, you have to trade one for another, because there is no way to increase grid atm beyond a few mods and engineering skill we have to sacrifice one aspect of ship performance to enhance another, what the skill does albeit at a small percentage is move the game closer to one setup fits all, ok its a long way to go to that "nirvana" but this is the first step on that ladder and is a worrying developement in eve from my point of view anyway and digi's too if i read his post correctly.
I picked up this ace book today everyone rates it as a must buy for the budding military genius, tho ive decided to rename it as "Sun Tzu's art of the bloody obvious" |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:27:00 -
[10]
I like it, should make fitting T2 modules a bit less of a chore. 
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Zenst
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:35:00 -
[11]
i think your'll find interceptor peeps loving this skill more given all the stealth powergrid batage they have had.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:38:00 -
[12]
Dray is the winner.
Fitting tech 2 on tech 1 ships should be hard.
Fitting a full rack of the top end gun for your class of ship should be hard.
Making it easier means better guns, means better damage. And name one combat character that isn't going to have this up to 5 eventually? Lots of suckyness here that you guys are missing:
What helps you make your ship better helps your enemy do the same to his.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Marskalkur
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:41:00 -
[13]
Minmatar bonus, Minmatar Tomb
will we see Claws with 800mm rolled tungsten at lvl5?
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:44:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Vishnej on 03/07/2005 08:45:12
What I'm saying is that many tech 1 guns are downright impossible to fit and still have half the performance in other areas.
Try kitting out ANYTHING smaller than a battleship with Heavy Beams, for example, and coming out with a setup that's as usable in other areas as one with focused med beams.
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Dray
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vishnej
Edited by: Vishnej on 03/07/2005 08:45:12
What I'm saying is that many tech 1 guns are downright impossible to fit and still have half the performance in other areas.
Try kitting out ANYTHING smaller than a battleship with Heavy Beams, for example, and coming out with a setup that's as usable in other areas as one with focused med beams.
I hear what your saying but the system has remained rigid on the grid aspect for a long time, this is a good thing in my opinion. As for your example is the problem grid or the weapon itself?
I picked up this ace book today everyone rates it as a must buy for the budding military genius, tho ive decided to rename it as "Sun Tzu's art of the bloody obvious" |
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:57:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 03/07/2005 08:59:40
Advanced weapons upgrades? where does it say this skill is even coming out? i must admit tho, it will make fitting T2 guns a bit easier.
Edit: Just read the patchnotes again, looks like they sneeked it in there, Awesome 
Real men, play Rugby |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.03 09:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jim Steele
Edited by: Jim Steele on 03/07/2005 09:02:44
Edited by: Jim Steele on 03/07/2005 08:59:40
Advanced weapons upgrades? where does it say this skill is even coming out? i must admit tho, it will make fitting T2 guns a bit easier.
Edit: Just read the patchnotes again, looks like they sneeked it in there, Awesome
As for the megathron not having enough cpu, well i guess thats to stop it shield tanking, really tho in all setups i find grid more of a problem and i welcome an potential extra 10% extra.
You're nuts dude. Megathron has the 2nd highest cpu.
It has no cpu problems if you're using tech 1 named instead of tech 2 even though hybrid use more of any other gun. Tech II is really only feasable if you plan on going all the way with faction hardeners imo.
4 med slots is what stops a mega from shield tanking.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Dray
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Posted - 2005.07.03 09:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jim Steele
As for the megathron not having enough cpu, well i guess thats to stop it shield tanking, really tho in all setups i find grid more of a problem and i welcome an potential extra 10% extra.
shield tanking a megathron just makes baby jesus cry
I picked up this ace book today everyone rates it as a must buy for the budding military genius, tho ive decided to rename it as "Sun Tzu's art of the bloody obvious" |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.07.03 09:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You're nuts dude. Megathron has the 2nd highest cpu.
from all the BS'es it has the 3rd lowest (only the apoc and the geddon have lower cpu), and in the tier2 BS'es it is on par with the tempest (550tf base cpu).
you made a bit of a mistake there , unless you were talking about tier2 BS'es only.
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:05:00 -
[20]
Where does the info it gives a reduction in grid come from. Cause that seriously doesn't make sense. It should be a CPU reduction of like 2%. Not grid. Definetly not grid.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:23:00 -
[21]
Well, as far as this skill goes, it will help the lower end Gallente ships ("I need a med slot module that takes umpteen cpu and 0.25 powergrid, anyone?"), but as far as the skill goes it will help Amarr and Minmatar the most. Gallente the least (a few Caldari launchers got a PG increase) because Gallente is tightest on CPU the higher you go (can anyone say "Brutix"?).
A request: make Diags do more cap bonus and no powergrid boost.
Originally by: Gariuys
Where does the info it gives a reduction in grid come from. Cause that seriously doesn't make sense. It should be a CPU reduction of like 2%. Not grid. Definetly not grid.
Patch notes and SiSi
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Josameto III - Moon 1 |
sableye
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:29:00 -
[22]
I know everyoen in my corp is looking forward to this skill alot, of course we'd like another cpu one too but this one was needed by many people, I personally thnk its great.
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gariuys
Where does the info it gives a reduction in grid come from. Cause that seriously doesn't make sense. It should be a CPU reduction of like 2%. Not grid. Definetly not grid.
You can see it in the patch notes and on sisi's market.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:31:00 -
[24]
wow, have been waiting for this skill for ages..... too bad I now got to train for a dread aswell
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:43:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Na'Axin
wow, have been waiting for this skill for ages..... too bad I now got to train for a dread aswell
why? why have you GOT to train for a dreadnought? i hate this "must have biggest ship" mentality. Dreads are gonna be so situation specific that 75% of the time they are gonna be of little to no use, and thats if u can get it there
As for the skill, it will help frigs + cruisers but may unbalance BS a little. time will tell
New Sig Coming SoonÖ |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Eyeshadow
Originally by: Na'Axin
wow, have been waiting for this skill for ages..... too bad I now got to train for a dread aswell
why? why have you GOT to train for a dreadnought? i hate this "must have biggest ship" mentality. Dreads are gonna be so situation specific that 75% of the time they are gonna be of little to no use, and thats if u can get it there
As for the skill, it will help frigs + cruisers but may unbalance BS a little. time will tell
Maybe you can finally fit some guns on the Tempest without using RCUs
No sig today |
Acwron
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nafri
[...]
Maybe you can finally fit some guns on the Tempest without using RCUs
You still need an RCU or atleast PDS for Tech2.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Acwron
Originally by: Nafri
[...]
Maybe you can finally fit some guns on the Tempest without using RCUs
You still need an RCU or atleast PDS for Tech2.
As I feared, so it has no use for mataris
No sig today |
MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:52:00 -
[29]
Wish I could fit Mega Beams on my Apoc as easy as 425s on a Mega 
This skill may help abit anyway
------------------------------------------
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Acwron
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nafri
As I feared, so it has no use for mataris
Well the skill means one more Dmg-Mod for Tachyon Apoc, Geddon.
On the Tempest/Raven/Mega ive 8% more pg for the 2/2/1 left highslots.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:57:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/07/2005 11:57:17
3575 Grid for a 1400 II -> Lvl5 Advanced Wp Upgr -> 0.9 * 3.575 = 3.217,5
3217,5 * 6 = 19.305
Tempest with Engineering 5 = 15.500 * 1.25 = 19.375
Am i missing something?
EDIT:
Bah, beaten to it. 
/Elve
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:57:00 -
[32]
Armageddon: 16500*1.25 = 20625
Tachyon I: 3750*0.90 = 3375*7 = 23625
Tachyon II: 4125*0.90 = 3712.5*7 = 25987.5
20625*1.15 = 23718 - enough for tachyon I
23718*1.15 = 27276.5625 - enough for tachyon II
so, 1 less rcu II to fit tachs onto a geddon.
Tempest: 15500*1.25 = 19375
1400mm I: 3250*0.90 = 2925*6 = 17550
1400mm II: 3575*0.90 = 3217.5*6 = 19305
Good news for you 'pest pilots you can just about fit 1400mm II with no grid mods - with 70pg to work with, enough for rocket launchers w. defenders
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2005.07.03 11:59:00 -
[33]
All the T2 weapons take 10% more grid, getting this skill to 5 will offset that.
It doesn't even come close to offsetting the grid increase on cruiser and frigate missile launchers. Not that that has any effect on Caldari anyway, my caldari alt's Caracal will still have over 200grid free after the patch. The grid changes on the launchers mostly hurt Minmatar.
As for the OP: what you're saying is the Mega has too much grid and it should be reduced right? Since none of the other BS except the Raven are that easy to fit.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:03:00 -
[34]
Edited by: keepiru on 03/07/2005 12:05:28
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/07/2005 11:57:17
3575 Grid for a 1400 II -> Lvl5 Advanced Wp Upgr -> 0.9 * 3.575 = 3.217,5
3217,5 * 6 = 19.305
Tempest with Engineering 5 = 15.500 * 1.25 = 19.375
Am i missing something?
EDIT:
Bah, beaten to it.
\o/
and, diana's got the right of it, this skill alows you to fit T2 guns for the pg of T1 guns.
so much for "there's too much damage in this game", eh hammer?
Maybe 1 less MAPC to fit medium beams on Retribution?
Indeed:
18*0.90 = 16.2*4 = 64.8
56*1.25 = 70
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Hast
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:10:00 -
[35]
bah, even now Minmatar gets the short end of the stick. 
I was hoping this would remove the rcu from my Tempest but meh. And I was just done training the energy grid skill to lvl5 aswell  just to use rcu II's now I dont need it.
Hopefully this skill will help poor cruisers and my Crusader
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Acwron
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:11:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Acwron on 03/07/2005 12:11:40
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/07/2005 11:57:17
3575 Grid for a 1400 II -> Lvl5 Advanced Wp Upgr -> 0.9 * 3.575 = 3.217,5
3217,5 * 6 = 19.305
Tempest with Engineering 5 = 15.500 * 1.25 = 19.375
Am i missing something?
EDIT:
Bah, beaten to it.
jap you did. You can not fit 6 T2 1400er with a RCU 1.
6 T¦ 1400er: 21450 PG
Powergrid with 1 RCU (10%): 21312,5
-137,5
PS: and only at lvl 5 the skill equals a RCU 1. (It's Rank 6 so quite a bit of traning to lvl 5)
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Acwron
Edited by: Acwron on 03/07/2005 12:11:40
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/07/2005 11:57:17
3575 Grid for a 1400 II -> Lvl5 Advanced Wp Upgr -> 0.9 * 3.575 = 3.217,5
3217,5 * 6 = 19.305
Tempest with Engineering 5 = 15.500 * 1.25 = 19.375
Am i missing something?
EDIT:
Bah, beaten to it.
jap you did. You can not fit 6 T2 1400er with a RCU 1.
6 T¦ 1400er: 21450 PG
Powergrid with 1 RCU (10%): 21312,5
-137,5
PS: and only at lvl 5 the skill equals a RCU 1. (It's Rank 6 so quite a bit of traning to lvl 5)
You forgot to factor in the *0.90 from the new skill. makes each t2 1400er take 3575*0.90 = 3127.5*6 = 19305
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Acwron
Edited by: Acwron on 03/07/2005 12:11:40
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/07/2005 11:57:17
3575 Grid for a 1400 II -> Lvl5 Advanced Wp Upgr -> 0.9 * 3.575 = 3.217,5
3217,5 * 6 = 19.305
Tempest with Engineering 5 = 15.500 * 1.25 = 19.375
Am i missing something?
EDIT:
Bah, beaten to it.
jap you did. You can not fit 6 T2 1400er with a RCU 1.
6 T¦ 1400er: 21450 PG
Powergrid with 1 RCU (10%): 21312,5
-137,5
PS: and only at lvl 5 the skill equals a RCU 1. (It's Rank 6 so quite a bit of traning to lvl 5)
You forgot to factor in the *0.90 from the new skill. makes each t2 1400er take 3575*0.90 = 3127.5*6 = 19305
too bad your math is wrong and elves is right
No sig today |
Acwron
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:21:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Acwron on 03/07/2005 12:28:49
Edited by: Acwron on 03/07/2005 12:24:29
Jap you are right. I was under the false impression that it lowers increases your grid. But you are right it's like *0,9.
So Dmg mod 19,3 ROF 8,34 here I come.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:30:00 -
[40]
21450*0.90 = 19305
19305*1.15 = 22220.75
fun with numbers \o/
actually having that skill @ 5 is more than having an rcu I - (21450-19305)/193.05 = 11.1*(repeats)
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:43:00 -
[41]
Good for Med Beam 2's on Amarr Frigs? Anyone got the math handy?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: mahhy
Good for Med Beam 2's on Amarr Frigs? Anyone got the math handy?
18*0.90 = 16.2*4 = 64.8
56*1.25 = 70
leaves you 5.2 pg free once you fit 4 medium beam IIs on retri. slap a pdu II and you just might fit web+repper+th. hardener+2HS II or soemthing like that. certainly 2 pdu II will do the trick.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.07.03 13:00:00 -
[43]
PDU II will give you CPU trouble though, but that can be worked with.
Certainly an improvement for frigates, although it kinda wacks the Battleships out of balance again.
/Elve
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Wizard
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Posted - 2005.07.03 13:06:00 -
[44]
This skill is the bomb
I for 1 will be training it so i have less of a nightmare fitting beams etc to my amarr ships. About bloody time damage output has been nerfed to hell, so at least i have somthing to look forward to.
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Hellspawn666
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Posted - 2005.07.03 13:09:00 -
[45]
i like it, cpu problems are always annoying. also plz bare in mind cpu bosters suck big time, there isnt module like the pdu for cpu so its much nastier fitting one on.
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Cycerin Strikebeam
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Posted - 2005.07.03 13:15:00 -
[46]
This will definitively help ships like the Brutix quite a bit.
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Alerce
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Posted - 2005.07.03 14:00:00 -
[47]
i still wish it would really work for ALL turrets, but no it doesnt count for mining turrets :(
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.03 14:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You're nuts dude. Megathron has the 2nd highest cpu.
from all the BS'es it has the 3rd lowest (only the apoc and the geddon have lower cpu), and in the tier2 BS'es it is on par with the tempest (550tf base cpu).
you made a bit of a mistake there, unless you were talking about tier2 BS'es only.
I was, cause they have lots more grid :|
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.03 15:21:00 -
[49]
I agree with the OP, this skill sux. Leads to too many abusive setups.
I still think large artillery needs to be easier to fit, though. Only being able to fit 5 = ridiculous.
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Brisi
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Posted - 2005.07.03 15:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Alerce
i still wish it would really work for ALL turrets, but no it doesnt count for mining turrets :(
Oh noes! 'Cause if it did work for Mining lasers, it would lower the grid to approx. 0.9, making them much easier to fit at what? Your Reaper?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.03 15:44:00 -
[51]
I think he means weapon upgrades, for cpu.
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DarkMatters
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Posted - 2005.07.03 16:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Na'Axin
wow, have been waiting for this skill for ages..... too bad I now got to train for a dread aswell
to train the skill which effects siege mode you need need this skill at 5 anyways...
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Brisi
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Posted - 2005.07.03 16:51:00 -
[53]
Originally by: keepiru
I think he means weapon upgrades, for cpu.
Regardless, I found it necessary to poke him around a bit.
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Brisi
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Posted - 2005.07.03 16:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: keepiru
I think he means weapon upgrades, for cpu.
Regardless, I found it necessary to poke him around a bit.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.07.03 16:56:00 -
[55]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You're nuts dude. Megathron has the 2nd highest cpu.
from all the BS'es it has the 3rd lowest (only the apoc and the geddon have lower cpu), and in the tier2 BS'es it is on par with the tempest (550tf base cpu).
you made a bit of a mistake there, unless you were talking about tier2 BS'es only.
I was, cause they have lots more grid :|
I stand corrected then, but keep in mind that the megathron has also the 2nd lowest cpu in the tier2 BS'es
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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TWD
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Posted - 2005.07.03 16:59:00 -
[56]
gank++
fleet battles lasting a few mins max ftl  |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.07.03 17:10:00 -
[57]
Good for Raven though, means you can mount some of those 425's and not rely on missiles.
ex P-TMC
If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2005.07.03 17:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Good for Raven though, means you can mount some of those 425's and not rely on missiles.
7x 425s on Mega are enough to kill a BS in say... 10 mins 2x 425s are supposed to help raven to do what? Kill the 10 npc intys? kill pc intys? - forget it if they approach by orbiting (diminishing spirals or woot)- Kill BSs :O I think not. Sniping set ups? not really without the med-slot mods that you cant spare on a raven.At best it might allow ganking Ravens with torps to fit a couple of L blasters but if you'r ganking would nt you prefer the heavy Nos? Dunno if its even worth posting about the Raven any longer :( :( :(
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Tar om
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Posted - 2005.07.03 17:44:00 -
[59]
so, infact...
this is another skill that minmatar need to train to level5 to fit their best guns to compete with other races? and it only works on half of our armament?
You know, I'm starting to get a little sick of this split between proj and missiles on the minnie ships. It makes us very sensitive to nerfage :P
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:27:00 -
[60]
I love this thread.
This is a great skill espically with tech II guns and tech II Armour repairers eating power grid.
*STOP WHINNING! start learning.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:28:00 -
[61]
I think this skill was uncalled for. We already have a working ship balance, at least we are trying to keep things balance. This weapon powergrid reduction skill shifts everything in a different direction. It is not needed.
In general I'm against introduction of combat skills. It's just another thing that increases the power gap between old and new players. Now everyone will have to waste a month training this damn skill to level 5. Yes, level 5, because the benefit it provides is that important.
Stupid devs
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:33:00 -
[62]
The skill isn't needed.
That's not stopping me from training it to lvl 5.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:35:00 -
[63]
Fittings are the number one thing people ***** about, esp grid. I dont see the problem, there are other modules that get grid reduction via skills. So why not weapons?
~Sobe |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:37:00 -
[64]
I like this skill. I have all too many small-ship loadouts where I'm short of one (or just 0.5) grid. Especially on interceptors.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:42:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
I like this skill. I have all too many small-ship loadouts where I'm short of one (or just 0.5) grid. Especially on interceptors.
But that's the point. You aren't supposed to fit everything you want without problems. Everyone has to face some tough choices and consider using alternative setups.
The less restrictions on equipping things = the less variety in setups, because the cookie cutter super-setups will prevail.
It's already to easy to fit all tech 2 stuff, have almost everything of the best variety. Why even bother having tech 1 modules and lesser guns? Oh yea, for the noobs, someone gotta be the cannon fodder
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:45:00 -
[66]
As usual DigitalCom's right. This is a step towards Jove fittings. This is another skill all players have to max out to become 'good' at pvp'ing.
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.07.04 11:49:00 -
[67]
Not read the replies but...
Its great news for temepst users and friggy users, alot of the time you have tons of cpu left but 1 grid short on some inty setups
Besides theres plenty of cpu reductions skills and implants, nothing for grid
Frank made me do it |
Inoxx
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Posted - 2005.07.04 12:05:00 -
[68]
gues i can use 7 heatsinks on my t2 tach-o-geddon.... And i thougt it allready was overpowerd lol
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Tar Kovsky
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Posted - 2005.07.04 12:15:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Discorporation
The skill isn't needed.
Unless you actually want to mount a standard launcher on a Minmatar AF. In fact, I think nearly all my fittings are unusable on Sisi for lack of grid.
This is a rank 7 skill, I believe.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.07.04 12:48:00 -
[70]
This skill is the most blatantly terrible idea I've seen be implemented into the game since alts. It frankly reduces the confidence I have in the people that make these decisions. 
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We come in peace. And tanks. |
Remedial
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Posted - 2005.07.04 13:58:00 -
[71]
You guys are morons. The skill reduces the PG needed for weapons by a small amount so that it can be used primarily for armor improvements. Who cares if you can mount a little extra damage? Post patch the 1600mm rolled tungstens are giving like 3000 armor bonuses. If I can slap 2 of them on my cruiser now, it's going to take you forever to kill me even WITH the extra damage.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.04 14:07:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sun Ra
Not read the replies but...
Its great news for temepst users and friggy users, alot of the time you have tons of cpu left but 1 grid short on some inty setups
Besides theres plenty of cpu reductions skills and implants, nothing for grid
Is being able to fit more per definition good then ?
I thought not.
This is a traiing time sink with an unbalancing effect.
Please scrap it.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.07.04 14:08:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Originally by: Discorporation
The skill isn't needed.
Unless you actually want to mount a standard launcher on a Minmatar AF. In fact, I think nearly all my fittings are unusable on Sisi for lack of grid.
This is a rank 7 skill, I believe.
That's called making sacrifices.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Tar Kovsky
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Posted - 2005.07.04 14:21:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Originally by: Discorporation
The skill isn't needed.
Unless you actually want to mount a standard launcher on a Minmatar AF.
That's called making sacrifices.
Riight, because the Wolf is a notoriously overpowered ship... 
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.07.04 22:20:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Riight, because the Wolf is a notoriously overpowered ship...
If you were a little smarter you'd realize that this skills boosts every ship, not just your underpowered Wolf.
I know we don't have perfect balance between ships and some of them really need a little extra grid. But this skill doesn't shift the balance between ships, since it effects everybody. You may think that with a little extra grid you can now fit that uber setup you been thinking about, well your enemy also has a little extra grid and will also fit that uber setup.
One can say that this skill helps people put more defensive modules in. But that's true only under assumption that everyone always chooses to put most powerful guns first and then worry about everything else. There are other ways a game can address those issues
Perhaps CCP is thinking that by adding another combat skill that people will have to max out, they make sure people pay for 1 extra month of subscription? heh
At a cost of ever increasing power gap, which will come to bite them in the ass later, resulting in quicker demise of EVE. I know it sounds crazy, but it took crazy reasons to even put this skill in game.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.04 23:09:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Selim on 04/07/2005 23:09:08
Originally by: Discorporation
The skill isn't needed.
That's not stopping me from training it to lvl 5.
^
Oh god, I hope it doesn't use perception as primary.
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Tar Kovsky
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Posted - 2005.07.04 23:23:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Face Lifter
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Riight, because the Wolf is a notoriously overpowered ship...
If you were a little smarter you'd realize that this skills boosts every ship, not just your underpowered Wolf.
Well, duh. But call me selfish, I'm only thinking of my fitting problems -- I've been given to understand that other races don't have nearly as much trouble with grid on their ships. Naturally, I'd prefer seeing a power boost for just the Wolf (and the Jag and the Muninn and the Rupture and the Phoon and...) but I'll take what I can get.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.07.05 01:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Selim
Edited by: Selim on 04/07/2005 23:09:08
Originally by: Discorporation
The skill isn't needed.
That's not stopping me from training it to lvl 5.
^
Oh god, I hope it doesn't use perception as primary.
same here... sometimes I curse my intaki bloodline
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Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.07.05 01:58:00 -
[79]
Why is this skill only being talked about in regard to battleships? Sure, it might make bs a tiny bit to easy to fit (as they are already amazingly easy), but this is badly needed for cruisers and frigs, especially with the new grid reqs on missles. Those missle grid reqs majorly mess up most ceptor and af loadouts. Perhaps this means i'll be able to put ions on my rax rather than electrons? Still won't bring me anywhere near neutrons. Bs pilots don't need this skill, but us frig and cruiser people sure do.
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Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.05 02:07:00 -
[80]
It's a rank 6, btw. Perc/Will.
Oh, and t2 hardeners are 55%, and take 4 more cpu than t1.
Shield needs Tactical 4, Armor need Hull Upg. 5.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.05 02:19:00 -
[81]
Originally by: keepiru
It's a rank 6, btw. Perc/Will.
Oh, and t2 hardeners are 55%, and take 4 more cpu than t1.
Shield needs Tactical 4, Armor need Hull Upg. 5.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.05 02:28:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: keepiru
It's a rank 6, btw. Perc/Will.
Oh, and t2 hardeners are 55%, and take 4 more cpu than t1.
Shield needs Tactical 4, Armor need Hull Upg. 5.
There, there, have some cake.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.05 02:59:00 -
[83]
:Steals the cake:
I'm pleased with this new skill, means that I can go back to using 2 BCS on my Cerb instead of using only 1 because of the doubled Heavy Launcher PG needs.
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2005.07.05 04:18:00 -
[84]
Try fitting tech 2 mega beams / tachys or 720/1400 howitzers and you can see that the megathron/rails are the exception and not the other way round.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.05 04:52:00 -
[85]
People are being stupid again. Woo, the surprise is killing me. Really, it is.
Listen you silly little muppetmolesters, when tech II battleships roll out and can fit a rack of the best tech II gun out there for your class of ship, what is the point of having any other gun? Not just refering to the overall increased damage, or the lack of variety.. but some ships have no problems fitting the best guns, while others have huge grid problems. Zealot vs Deimos for example. Or ships like Ishtar with no use for the skill.
In other words its not going to help one person as much as it helps another, even if both people have it at lvl 5. Further whackyness, just when things were starting to look balanced.
Don't worry about me though, this is the first thing I'll get and start training once I log in tommorow.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.07.05 09:59:00 -
[86]
Originally by: keepiru
It's a rank 6, btw. Perc/Will.
Oh, and t2 hardeners are 55%, and take 4 more cpu than t1.
Shield needs Tactical 4, Armor need Hull Upg. 5.
I fscking hate this!!!
ccp thinks that perception is the means to everything regarding pvp and if you dont have a high perception then you are basicly screwed and should carebare!
Why dont they change at least some of the pvp skills to will like the spaceship command skills used to be, during the the time I created my character.. and whoops now lets make will useless and have no skill use it untill we have t2 spaceship command skills
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Deep Throat
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Posted - 2005.07.05 20:36:00 -
[87]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
What helps you make your ship better helps your enemy do the same to his.
sums it up imo. equality really. see nothing wrong with it. and i think the t2 needs help in fitting both cpu/powergrid. t2 defence finally arrived, t2 guns etc..
-3% would have been better though
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.07.05 20:48:00 -
[88]
Originally by: keepiru
It's a rank 6, btw. Perc/Will.
\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
/me strokes his perception/willp
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:21:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Arud
Originally by: keepiru
It's a rank 6, btw. Perc/Will.
Oh, and t2 hardeners are 55%, and take 4 more cpu than t1.
Shield needs Tactical 4, Armor need Hull Upg. 5.
I fscking hate this!!!
ccp thinks that perception is the means to everything regarding pvp and if you dont have a high perception then you are basicly screwed and should carebare!
Why dont they change at least some of the pvp skills to will like the spaceship command skills used to be, during the the time I created my character.. and whoops now lets make will useless and have no skill use it untill we have t2 spaceship command skills
Meh, at least you dont have many points in charisma, so you have good as good int/mem and even better will/perc than us intaki.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:00:00 -
[90]
I feel it's reasonable. Being able to equip your BS with better turrets in exchange for having two skills at level 5 seems like a fair trade.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:02:00 -
[91]
i like this skill, i might be able to fit 6 tach II's on my apoc without grid mods.
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:35:00 -
[92]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
-2% grid per level of all turrets and launchers.
Am I the only one thinking this isn't necessary? I'd rather have -3% cpu tbh.
Hooray! T2 clones 4tw! Nerf ETA: 1 month. And yes, I agree, this skill sucks and will break a balance, specifically across elite frigs, IMHO.
Olivin
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Sennju Zensu
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:41:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Sennju Zensu on 05/07/2005 23:41:43
its a good skill, was always not able to fitt some modules on inty caus 0.25 grid needs ... and finally its only -2% grid not -5%.... not a lot ^^
maybe gallente will be able t fitt neutron guns now
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:46:00 -
[94]
Gehehgheghhagh another perception skill
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:47:00 -
[95]
Goodbye balance.
Hello fun.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:01:00 -
[96]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
People are being stupid again. Woo, the surprise is killing me. Really, it is.
Listen you silly little muppetmolesters, when tech II battleships roll out and can fit a rack of the best tech II gun out there for your class of ship, what is the point of having any other gun? Not just refering to the overall increased damage, or the lack of variety.. but some ships have no problems fitting the best guns, while others have huge grid problems. Zealot vs Deimos for example. Or ships like Ishtar with no use for the skill.
In other words its not going to help one person as much as it helps another, even if both people have it at lvl 5. Further whackyness, just when things were starting to look balanced.
Don't worry about me though, this is the first thing I'll get and start training once I log in tommorow.
nerf battleship grid/increase large weapon grid reqs. Problem solved. I agree with you, but frigs and cruisers need this skill so badly that i think it helps more than it hurts.
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Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:11:00 -
[97]
While I agree with Digi's view in current EVEolution, I will wait until until this patch becomes second hand smoke before I say its pointless. Problem is we see what the DEVs have for us right now and sometimes ( most of the time for me since I am minny ) they flake the game out of whack in some area. However, I can see this taking us to a new idea of EVE. It will allow newer players to atleast feel competitive with veterans ( by making them specialize into a elite ship ) and make veterans feel rewarded for a time. PvP diehards such as digi have every right to be upset; however, future EVE-ites and a future EVE game may have something in store for us that DEVs aren't telling us. This skill may very well be pointless and a tad unbalancing... but it also may provide a stepping stone to a shift in EVE gaming that the DEVs have in store for us in 2006.
It should be noted this patch is far more balanced and well thought out than the last castor patch that was similar. The DEVs are doing their job well.
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The Nest
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:55:00 -
[98]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
-2% grid per level of all turrets and launchers.
Am I the only one thinking this isn't necessary? I'd rather have -3% cpu tbh.
For example:
Megathron can fit 7x 425mm Railgun II's with 2 large accoms on a single pdu. What is the point of dual 250mm, or even 350mm? They have lower damage and lower range, but you could fit more of them a long time ago. Being able to fit 7 of either kind of results in longer range = more damage than shorter range. The complete opposite of what pvp is about.
Similar situations with other battleships, and these are tech II guns I'm talking about. Shouldn't they be meant for tech II battleships? The only way to make this situation better now is to give the crappy shorter range guns of each class more damage, on top of their already higher tracking in a one to one gun comparison just to resemble some balance. Or introduce new harder to fit calibre guns.
All situations mean more damage.
Adv. Weapon Upgrades ftl.
Im sure you know. But a raven have grid problems fiting only tech 1 weponds and modules. That was before patch. With the new patch its even harder to fit considering the grid. For the other ships im sure you are right, but i cant fly any of the other rases and can not confirm it. (But you usaly are right)
So as a raven pilote i think this extra 2% pr lvl will help alot.
--
Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears: Forum - movies |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:12:00 -
[99]
if there will be adv. hull skill, will it be perc/will too?
Because some ppl don't have all that shiny high perc. and nothing pvp related in int/mem area left to train.
F'ck encription and crokite processing, i don't need that.
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