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Uncle George
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:21:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Reapo 2
Well if 750k rats are getting fixed then so should jet cans. Make them the sized of ur ships hold. everything was ok with 750ks as it is now so why should they change ok it wasnt meant to be like it but neither was jet can mining, it has now turned into a 'way of life' sorta thing every1 was/is happy like it is now so why change :( it will just cause more whining by carebears (like me but not my main :P) about masses of pirates at gate camps, remember theres even more gates to camp with NWO ;)
/Reapo2
You didn't read all of this thread or the other similar threads. Try making a comparison between the consequences of nerfing jetcans and the consequences of fixing the 750k EXPLOIT, work out how many players each might affect and then come back and make that argument.
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Claude Leon
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:28:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Claude Leon on 03/07/2005 23:30:04
Originally by: Reapo 2
Well if 750k rats are getting fixed then so should jet cans. Make them the sized of ur ships hold. everything was ok with 750ks as it is now so why should they change ok it wasnt meant to be like it but neither was jet can mining, it has now turned into a 'way of life' sorta thing every1 was/is happy like it is now so why change :( it will just cause more whining by carebears (like me but not my main :P) about masses of pirates at gate camps, remember theres even more gates to camp with NWO ;)
/Reapo2
So, your telling me using an expliot was a "way of life." How disgusting.
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Ixianus
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:28:00 -
[33]
As I was browsing the forums the estrogen detector, that I purchased from Mad Scorpion, went wild and pulled me into this thread of its own accord.
Its all fine and dandy that you ladies say "Well you should be stuck with this and that and yadda yadda yadda," the sec status issue, even as it stands now, is a bit retarded. I have had the same sec status for the past year or so; you would think after slaughtering what has to be millions of individual pirates, comitting what could be called a small geneocide on most planets, my sec status has moved up maybe .1 points, probably less than that.
If the game worked as you want it to, you should be stuck with your decisions, miners shouldnt be able to run missions, agent herders shouldnt be able to mine, and the only people who should be able to do pvp are ebil pirates out in 0.0.
Now to wait for the assumptions from the 2 or so people who bother to read this.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:30:00 -
[34]
If it gets bad in Empire people will just go corpless, instead aligning in "unofficial corps".
So Yes, I am aware my thoughts are going to set me up for war, and am prepared for the situation.
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Ixianus
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:36:00 -
[35]
Thats a great interpretation btw Claude, cause you know, you hit the nail on the head, condeming the pretty much only form of mining in use to get any reasonable amount of ore.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:37:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rafein
If it gets bad in Empire people will just go corpless, instead aligning in "unofficial corps".
So Yes, I am aware my thoughts are going to set me up for war, and am prepared for the situation.
Oh don't worry, I'm going to take a salvo at that shortly, too.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Alphawolf
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:38:00 -
[37]
Pirates you guys gotta deal with it dont like it ?
stop being a pirate then maybe one day you can come back to empire .
i dont see why your guys are crying so much you chose to kill people and now that ccp has made it so you really are outlaws you cry and whine.
you thin you are they only people being nerfed this patch agent rat Battleships and cruisers are being reduced in bountys. and i haven't seen any agent mission runners crying about that. just your pirates whining and whining . grow up and accept and adapt to the change
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Uncle George
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ixianus
Edited by: Ixianus on 03/07/2005 23:32:15
As I was browsing the forums the estrogen detector, that I purchased from Mad Scorpion, went wild and pulled me into this thread of its own accord.
Its all fine and dandy that you ladies say "Well you should be stuck with this and that and yadda yadda yadda," the sec status issue, even as it stands now, is a bit retarded. I have had the same sec status for the past year or so; you would think after slaughtering what has to be millions of individual pirates, comitting what could be called a small geneocide on most planets, my sec status has moved up maybe .1 points, probably less than that.
If the game worked as you want it to, you should be stuck with your decisions, miners shouldnt be able to run missions, agent herders shouldnt be able to mine, and the only people who should be able to do pvp are ebil pirates out in 0.0.
Now to wait for the assumptions from the 2 or so people who bother to read this.
First Ive heard of this so called exploit btw.
Fair point, but not everything is exactly equivalent. You can't really draw a direct parallel between p'king in high sec, avoiding the sec loss through an exploit and returning to repeat the process, with something like mining or doing agent missions.
As has been said often recently, the real pirates won't give a monkeys about this change. The random gankers/exploiters/griefers won't like it a bit.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 03/07/2005 21:51:57
Originally by: Claude Leon
You people make me sick.
People like you make me sick 
This change is the first step towards World of EvecraftÖ, where everyone can enjoy being locked into a single career path.
Once you become a pirate you will never be able to go back, if CCP wants to fix this bug (Tbh i think the other rats should be brought up to par) then they should offer alternartive ways of becoming a good guy again.
I picked mining trained 6 months now of mining if I change my mind and want to be pvp can I also spend 20 mins to change that career path onto a new course? Didn't think so.
My fighter picked caldari. and has only caldari skills since my caldari character is now worthless can I now pick something else as obviously I have made a mistake in training that?
You pick your career live with it.
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Uncle George
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:53:00 -
[40]
Problem is Ixia, that the majority of people play fair, the small minority spoil it for the rest. Yes, there should be a way of getting standings back up in a reasonable amount of time - concord agents are a good idea. It just shouldn't be possible overnight. I have no doubt CCP are looking at this as we speak (well, maybe tommorrow at 9am  ).
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Claude Leon
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:54:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ixianus
Thats a great interpretation btw Claude, cause you know, you hit the nail on the head, condeming the pretty much only form of mining in use to get any reasonable amount of ore.
I hope they fix the jetcan issue as well. Both expliots are used by people who are lazy to play the game. When I started playing the game, I knew nothing about jetcans. I would mine and fill my hold. Warp back to the station and repeat.
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Claude Leon
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 03/07/2005 21:51:57
Originally by: Claude Leon
You people make me sick.
People like you make me sick
This change is the first step towards World of EvecraftÖ, where everyone can enjoy being locked into a single career path.
Once you become a pirate you will never be able to go back, if CCP wants to fix this bug (Tbh i think the other rats should be brought up to par) then they should offer alternartive ways of becoming a good guy again.
You know, Joshua. I use to have alot of respect for you. Oh, well. Difference of opinion.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:57:00 -
[43]
I realive Pirates that get to -10 will Podkill, and I'm cool with it. It's one of the risks players in unsecure space have always taken.
And it gets Sec status back to meaning something.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:00:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 04/07/2005 00:00:16
Originally by: Allen Deckard
I picked mining trained 6 months now of mining if I change my mind and want to be pvp can I also spend 20 mins to change that career path onto a new course? Didn't think so.
My fighter picked caldari. and has only caldari skills since my caldari character is now worthless can I now pick something else as obviously I have made a mistake in training that?
You pick your career live with it.
It takes about 3 days of training from scratch to be in a MWDing vigil. Thats not 3 days of grinding mind you, just 3 days of logging on and changing skills.
As bsspewer's graph clearly notes, it takes 319 hours of pure NPC grind to change away from the pirate profession. That is 2 weeks of 23/7 grinding.
Dont even ******* compare the two. They are in no way similar.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ivana Killya
Not moaning just saying how it will be
kill ship in 0.4 = yes
Kill pod in 0.4 = no
sec hit to high
but now pirates will hit -10 at some point so every thing will die pods aswell! you see? so not a moan. just true as i see it and feed back from others
but as i say time will tell
Of course you realize that we will also be able to identify them and kill them whever they are as well without a sec hit. Also they ain't gonna be hiding behind a false view of ".0 sec status" waiting for a target. It's that BIG FLASHING RED BEACON that might clue you in that a pirate is there without knowing the name of every pirate out there.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:09:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 04/07/2005 00:09:28
Apparently there are a lot of you who dont get it.
This change will:
Prevent pirates from changing to alternate careers, locking them into a lifetime of piracy.
Prevent non-pirates in low-sec space from doing any kind of combat for any real reason, reguardless of provocation.
Somewhat decrease the number of caracal gankers in yulai.
This change will not:
Decrease low-sec ganking. They're at -10.0 and locked into their profession, they'll be going more then ever.
Decrease podding. Again - since you cant fix your sec status, you might as well not worry about it at all. Pop everyone.
Decrease the number of pirates. Since anyone who tries piracy is a pirate forever, the number of pirates will never decrease. It cant.
Make pirates easier to spot. Sure, they'll have -10.0 sec status, but they will know exactly where you are thanks to alts. Local is up for a nerf soon anyway.
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Claude Leon
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:14:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Claude Leon on 04/07/2005 00:15:18
Edited by: Claude Leon on 04/07/2005 00:14:48
Originally by: Blind Fear
Edited by: Blind Fear on 04/07/2005 00:09:28
Apparently there are a lot of you who dont get it.
This change will:
Prevent pirates from changing to alternate careers, locking them into a lifetime of piracy.
Prevent non-pirates in low-sec space from doing any kind of combat for any real reason, reguardless of provocation.
Somewhat decrease the number of caracal gankers in yulai.
This change will not:
Decrease low-sec ganking. They're at -10.0 and locked into their profession, they'll be going more then ever.
Decrease podding. Again - since you cant fix your sec status, you might as well not worry about it at all. Pop everyone.
Decrease the number of pirates. Since anyone who tries piracy is a pirate forever, the number of pirates will never decrease. It cant.
Make pirates easier to spot. Sure, they'll have -10.0 sec status, but they will know exactly where you are thanks to alts. Local is up for a nerf soon anyway.
This change will:
Reduce or eliminate all the fake pirates who like to flip between "good" and "evil".
If you want to be "good", then use the tools that CCP has provided you with. Oh, I have been waiting to use that line! 
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Ivana Killya
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:15:00 -
[48]
Buy the time you have seen them there is a good chance you will be dead
any way no point in going on about TIME WILL TELL
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Edited by: Blind Fear on 04/07/2005 00:00:16
Originally by: Allen Deckard
I picked mining trained 6 months now of mining if I change my mind and want to be pvp can I also spend 20 mins to change that career path onto a new course? Didn't think so.
My fighter picked caldari. and has only caldari skills since my caldari character is now worthless can I now pick something else as obviously I have made a mistake in training that?
You pick your career live with it.
It takes about 3 days of training from scratch to be in a MWDing vigil. Thats not 3 days of grinding mind you, just 3 days of logging on and changing skills.
As bsspewer's graph clearly notes, it takes 319 hours of pure NPC grind to change away from the pirate profession. That is 2 weeks of 23/7 grinding.
Dont even ******* compare the two. They are in no way similar.
Your gonna have to explain how exactly you get to use mwd in 3 days don't see it. And your use of the f word shows your true age.
And finally yes they are very similar and if you cant see it thats your own fault.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:20:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 04/07/2005 00:20:36
Originally by: Claude Leon
This change will:
Reduce or eliminate all the fake pirates who like to flip between "good" and "evil".
If you want to be "good", then use the tools that CCP has provided you with. Oh, I have been waiting to use that line!
Yes. Chances are it will stop the minority of people who pirate in low-sec empire from doing that. Of course, these people never podded because of the sec hits anyway, but its worth getting rid of the group of pirates who rarely if ever pod, even if you have to build a massive inducement into the system for mindless ganking and podding.
Seems like a solid plan.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:21:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ivana Killya
Buy the time you have seen them there is a good chance you will be dead
any way no point in going on about TIME WILL TELL
Why would I be dead by the time I see it? you think that because your a pirate your better at pvp? Because your blinking red your somehow umber? Don't think so but it does however give me equal footing in that I don't have to wait until you have fired on me to attack you.
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Knukalz
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:24:00 -
[52]
Jeez, will ppl please stop going on about this.
Big sec gains from those rats were never part of the game before - was it a big deal then, no.
Personally, I'm fed up with seeing everyone going around with +5.0 sec status. It used to be a sign of an experienced good player seeing someone with a big sec status. Now those pesky 750k rats have smegged that up and everyone has a big sec status.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:25:00 -
[53]
Thats the thing, I'm not against Pirates at all. If your a pirate, be a pirate, and kill me/pod me. If I want revenge, I'll come looking for you.
Make and use alliances ingame. If you need gear from Empire, get a "secure" division, a Hauler corp that just runs supplies to Unsecure space from Empire for the Pirates. They never fight, only haul.
What I don't understnad is, why is everyone so up in arms over this. It causes more PvP action. Pirates will be killing everyone. Pirate hunting will again be a Viable profession. Everyone will be fighting, everyone will be killing everyone. Everyone into PvP should be happy.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:29:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 04/07/2005 00:29:36
No, because if I'm a PvPer fighting a WAR in Empire one accident will need several *more* WEEKS of grinding to clear up than before.
And please don't say it can be entirely avoided, given lag and the way some idiots like to lock people fighting in Empire. Not to mention the drone 'sploit.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Olivin
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:34:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Olivin on 04/07/2005 00:34:22
Originally by: Maya Rkell
You realise by posting in these threads, you're making yourself prime targets for "pirate" wardecs im Empire, right?
LOL. Could it be more pathetic?
Olivin
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Reapo 2
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:34:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Claude Leon
Edited by: Claude Leon on 03/07/2005 23:30:04
Originally by: Reapo 2
Well if 750k rats are getting fixed then so should jet cans. Make them the sized of ur ships hold. everything was ok with 750ks as it is now so why should they change ok it wasnt meant to be like it but neither was jet can mining, it has now turned into a 'way of life' sorta thing every1 was/is happy like it is now so why change :( it will just cause more whining by carebears (like me but not my main :P) about masses of pirates at gate camps, remember theres even more gates to camp with NWO ;)
/Reapo2
So, your telling me using an expliot was a "way of life." How disgusting.
well i dont see why the change it all of a sudden. Just because they found out what the accidently put in over 1y ago at least (i wasnt here for beta etc so dont know if its been here the full 2yrs). But i will hav to agree as well to the adapt and live, its just a game after all
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:38:00 -
[57]
It's a shame that this thread exists, because it undermines a lot of reasonable arguments in the other threads on sec status issues. 
750k BSs were bugged, it was right to fix them, it's about time they were fixed, so let's not even mention it. It makes every player who has ever mounted a warp scrambler look stupid.
What this bug fix does however, is draw attention to wider shortcomings in the system. As someone else said, something is very wrong when it takes an exploit to maintain balance.
We should be discussing the widespread lack of continuity between islands of low sec, the sec status modifers of NPCs as a whole, the duration of the sec status increase timer or whether it should exist at all, those kinds of things. The 750ks simply served as a substitute for real solutions. Now that they have been fixed, how about we start by requesting more gates and the removal of that timer, instead of begging for that absurd anomaly to be reinstated.
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Ivana Killya
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:40:00 -
[58]
Well u see not many peeps hunt solo in emp.most emp rats gank (multi ships) so your dead in a few secs! sent guns hurt solo. ive looked at my post again and cant see where i claim to be uber! BUT IF THE SHOE FITS
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:42:00 -
[59]
You should have like a 1 in 100 chance of your security status going down by a lot when you attack someone. I mean by like -1.0.. otherwise security status drop shouldn't be very much when attacking a ship in low sector space.. pods should always be high, what you *******s get for podding people.
Anyways, pretend the 1 out of 100 chance is "oh ****, security drone saw me do this". The normal increase (much less then it is now) could just be adding to your infamy.. blow up enough ships and the authorities will take notice.
It might control people a bit better. Pirates wouldn't have to worry about security status unless they made a living killing people in empire (which is a bit lame in my opinion).
Something has to be done.. pirating, security status and concorde are waaay too shallow right now. Pirates shouldn't have it easy but neither should people mining in 0.2.
maybe register names of ships. You can't change them.. certain ships get flagged and if the pirate changes the ship then he loses most of his security penalty (some of it, not all). Some ships lower your security status when you're in them or have security status bonuses. Shuttles, industrials, transport ships and most frigates give you a bonus to your security status allowing you to come to empire. If you attack someone in one of those ships, that ship type gets flagged for your character and you're not allowed to enter empire anymore.
Docking in an industrial and undocking in a battleship gets you shot up by sentries.
I like my last idea, it makes the game a bit more personal. Pirate A. kills 100 people in a battleship, he loses security status for that single ship at the current rate it's lost now. He gets chased out of empire.. ok.. but if he gets in another ship and comes to empire without hurting anyone, his security status isn't as bad enough to keep him out of .7sec space.
So it would be security status based on the danger of a ship.
blah, whatever happens I hope CCP does something to make it deeper then it currently is. Tired of hearing pirates whine about not being able to go to 1.0 after podding a whole group of newbs in yulai with a kestrel
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.07.04 00:46:00 -
[60]
My reputation as a certified non-pirate is fairly solid. (heck, I'm fairly well known for telling the most obnoxious "pirates" to take flying leaps.....) For the most part I'm an Industrialist/scout who like to dive into 0.0 now and then, both as a solo player and working with a Corp.
But while I'm not a pirate, I do think the 750k NPCs were just fine the way they were. If there has to be an adjustment, all non-750k NPC should have their security gain rewards increased a bit when the 750k NPCs are reduced, effectively leaving things about where they are now.
Bad clicks in combat DO happen. I fired on a friend by accident yesterday (stopped in time, and was in 0.0, so no big problem).
Fixing security should take some hard grinding. Making it a little tougher might be ok, but making it 100 times tougher, or even 10 times tougher, is to much.
While this change will have some good effects (suicide gankers have been getting far to common, probably a MAJOR part of the reason for this "fix"....), I think it will do more harm than good.
I could be wrong, but thats my 2 cents.
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