You hit on the important points, the sov rework needs to be based on usage, bottom up isk resources, and less grinding. Point one can be expanded to consider those people who are using the system but not included like traders and industrialists. With a switch from top down stuff like tech moons to bottom up stuff it makes slaughtering the line members a much bigger threat to an alliance and could be a potential conflict driver. Point three everyone hates grinding we can all agree on that its just how much is necessary to give both the defender and attacker a chance.

This sounds familiar.

Please develop on it. Replies with no content don't tell me where to look to improve the idea. And remember I am a high seccer. There are probably many game rules in null which I never encountered wich can put a fog over how I see it.

I'm kinda thinking of amking a new thread with that post. This one is kinda lost in a lot of ****/jokes/flame...

Yeah a new thread is the best idea this one is reserved for angry pubbie meltdowns.

This sounds familiar.

Yeah a new thread is the best idea this one is reserved for angry pubbie meltdowns.

Make sov holding a sort of pve race. It does sound like that is where allot of these ideas are going.

Pretty much. An interface tracking "the empire" would be nice. Of course, then amusing things happen, if, for example, you have renters ratting, but it's not their sov, so does it count? Would your non-sov-holding renters actually be attacking you? That would be hilarious.

This is indeed one of the problem I could not find a solution to compeltely. I though people ratting would be at least from your alliance so it would not affect the sov level but if renters are not in alliance, then I am not sure. A sov interface where you can input corps as mercenaries maybe. Thier ratting in your sov system count as your alliance doing it. Just throwing this as a possibility of course.

This is indeed one of the problem I could not find a solution to compeltely. I though people ratting would be at least from your alliance so it would not affect the sov level but if renters are not in alliance, then I am not sure. A sov interface where you can input corps as mercenaries maybe. Thier ratting in your sov system count as your alliance doing it. Just throwing this as a possibility of course.

2 points need to be added to that.

1- The "renter" corp/alliance need to be able to decline the rights. No setting of your enemy as renters when losing a war.

2- Based on this, a timer on the revocation of renting. You can't as a renter instantly beging trashing SOV. The defending party recive a warning about your breach of contract and X hours later you can start doing damage.

The second one might not be necessary but i'd rather not integrate another "metagame" while changing the whole system. It could be removed if most people really think it's way too limiting.

'Sov' points that can spent for upgrades? (like LP for FW)

+1 to revamping nullsec....

I personally want to see a serious reduction (not elimination) of Timer-based structure shooting! Furthermore, I want to see the inclusion of small gang objectives. While I don't want to see the current incarnation of FW become the new sov system, it does some things right!

-- An individual plays a role in flipping a system... They don't NEED a fleet to accomplish their part... all they need is a frigate and a little motivation...

-- Randomly spawning objectives: A small gang objective should be a target of opportunity, not a pre-planned OP.

-- Limited Opportunity: A small gang objective should be accomplish-able quickly... If the enemy only has 10 minutes to respond... they can't bring everything..

-- You don't need to "force" large fights.. things can and will often escalate naturally...

+1 to revamping nullsec....

I personally want to see a serious reduction (not elimination) of Timer-based structure shooting! Furthermore, I want to see the inclusion of small gang objectives. While I don't want to see the current incarnation of FW become the new sov system, it does some things right!

-- An individual plays a role in flipping a system... They don't NEED a fleet to accomplish their part... all they need is a frigate and a little motivation...

-- Randomly spawning objectives: A small gang objective should be a target of opportunity, not a pre-planned OP.

-- Limited Opportunity: A small gang objective should be accomplish-able quickly... If the enemy only has 10 minutes to respond... they can't bring everything..

-- You don't need to "force" large fights.. things can and will often escalate naturally...

Most of these things are covered under Farms & FieldsGäó

http://themittani.com/features/vision-thing

http://themittani.com/features/creation-and-destruction

I've read those articles.. and many of the Forum's on Farms & FieldsGäó . On the old forums, there was a nice lengthy thread about farms and fields ideas.... Farms & FieldsGäó typically don't refer to "Sov" battles, but to everyday infrastructure that give people a reason to attack and defend.

And while I'd love to see Farms & FieldsGäó implemented.. . My post is about including Small gang objectives directly into Sov Warfare... Currently, all Sov Warfare objectives are enormous structures with RF timers...

To give an example: Imagine if you could speed up or slow down an IHUB/TCU's RF countdown timer by some major margin (like +/- 12 hours). How? Through several small gang objectives that randomly spawn during the RF countdown... Achieve the objectives and you may speed up or slow down the RF timer.... As long as the objectives were random in nature, complete-able by a small gang in a short time (<15 minutes), etc... suddenly there is a new dimension to Sov that involves small gang warfare... This creates interesting opportunities for Strikes when an enemy is unprepared... it allows for natural escalation, and rounds out the Sov game...

I'd suggest the ability to attack people's upgrades. The indices they've spent time increasing and so on (and have suggested on my blog.)

Mostly as it introduces something other than an all or nothing attack on someone's Sov.

This really makes it pointless for a small group to even try to defend their space from a large group... as nothing they can do will influence or alter the process... Hell... they can't even slow it down!!

WALLTREIPERS Alliance would like to have a word with you.

They are a small 500 man spanish alliance that held a constellation in Delve prior to the soco vs. CFC conflict last year. They fought like lions using snipers and bombers and ohgod the bombers until they were down to one system left. They had one system left. And they held that system for 2 weeks- against a coalition of 45,000 players by sheer tenacity and balls of steel.

We would drop SBU's and they would ninja the things, we would guard the SBU's till they anchored then leave and they would kill them with a couple supers. That little alliance earned the respect of all 0.0 more than any kb stats or supercapital fleets or Battleclinic rating ever could.

You are right though- there needs to be more small gang objectives.

WALLTREIPERS Alliance would like to have a word with you.

They are a small 500 man spanish alliance that held a constellation in Delve prior to the soco vs. CFC conflict last year. They fought like lions using snipers and bombers and ohgod the bombers until they were down to one system left. They had one system left. And they held that system for 2 weeks- against a coalition of 45,000 players by sheer tenacity and balls of steel.

We would drop SBU's and they would ninja the things, we would guard the SBU's till they anchored then leave and they would kill them with a couple supers. That little alliance earned the respect of all 0.0 more than any kb stats or supercapital fleets or Battleclinic rating ever could.

You are right though- there needs to be more small gang objectives.

I really cant see why the FW sov system couldnt be used,ok so it might need tweaking here and there ,but its a valid way of deciding sov imo,and will eventually include Dust operations.instead of TCUs and SBUs and grinding alot of structures.Lets base it on taking a / the station in system,and holding the temperate planets in future Also as there would be no TCUs ect it could open up alot of space for other alliances to occupy.At the moment thats difficult to do ,as big alliances own 100s of systems ,which require alot of structure grinding but no station or ownership of planets or /planetary operations like industry /argricuture ect on planets no sov in that system.This is the way Sov is going to go anyway to accommodate Dust so why not make a start on it this summer expansion,or at latest in the winter expansion.

I'll say it again: if CCP think that players will be infinitely patient, they are incorrect. Matters are coming to a head in null and if there isn't a proper reworking of sov 0.0, it's not going to be pretty.

I fully understand that CCP wanted to work on empire for the last few years, but now the situation in null is approaching meltdown. It has been 5 years since the last work on improving sov 0.0 was done, and now that patience is wearing very thin indeed.

*Eliminate multi-million hp structures as the lynchpin of sov. Sov strength should be determined by player activity, not deployable structures.

*Undefended sov should be easy to take, no to remotely set timers.

*Make it viable for 0.0 players to actually live in 0.0 by reworking outposts so that we can upgrade them to match NPC systems

*Base alliance income on the activity of players, not the output of lifeless moons owned by an elite few.


At the moment, Sov 0.0 depends on supers, structures and moons. It should depend on players.

Amen to that, WALLTREIPERS definitely earned my respect during that conflict.