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Missile and Mission Nerf Petition

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DjDangle	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:21:00 - [1] Please Only sign this if you support it. If you don't then just don't reply! This is constructive. I want to let ccp know how many people do not like the nerf to the entent it has been enforced. I for one want to see the nerf reduced....
marshal123	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:23:00 - [2] I too want the nerf reduced. signed.
KDS Kytarh	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:24:00 - [3] Agreed!
Calruthian	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:26:00 - [4] Edited by: Calruthian on 06/07/2005 18:26:41 I agree. I spent my whole eve life training up nothing missle skills and now instead of being able to get up to the 14th teir in deadspace alone......now I can hardly clear the 10th. I for one am about to quit playing its like im a noob again.
Imran	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Calruthian Edited by: Calruthian on 06/07/2005 18:26:41 I agree. I spent my whole eve life training up nothing missle skills and now instead of being able to get up to the 14th teir in deadspace alone......now I can hardly clear the 10th. I for one am about to quit playing its like im a noob again. wts tissue.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:29:00 - [6] If you read the bug blog, it's apparent that there are some minor issues with the missile nerf/buff that need to be corrected. From the look of it, the signature radius/damage calculation is screwed. Good to see missions take in the arse though. Newbies in Ravens no more! "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:29:00 - [7] I think missiles should be nerfed even more. As there is only 1 non alt in this thread (and alts opinions dont count), and my vote cancels out the 1st guy, this thread now has no supporters.
Sykosys	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:31:00 - [8] Signed Nerf missles and lvl 4 missions even more. That is what the topic says right?? And how is it unconstructive if we disagree with the original poster?? SYKOSYS _______________________ "She'll fly apart sir," "FLY HER APART THEN!!!"
Zarks	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:31:00 - [9] It¦s not a nerf you idiots, when you realize that maybe you will go on with your lifes.
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:32:00 - [10] Just because we disagree does not mean we are flaming: i disagre with this: the fact that some guy could actually solo so much of a complex in a raven showed how overpowered it was. Keep the changes. ------------------ Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:33:00 - [11] I think missiles are too strong, TBH. Once people are getting a few million SP in missiles, they are gonna be extremely powerful. The only people who dont like the changes are lvl 4 mission runners, and if ravens hadnt been so idiotically easy to train for and fly (like every other BS), then we wouldnt be here at all. This is simply the solution to a problem thats 2 years old.
marshal123	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:33:00 - [12] Edited by: marshal123 on 06/07/2005 18:35:44 you were asked to sign it if you agreed you fools go start your own thread, how can he get an acurate picture with the same people flaming every thread. this is for people who agree so if not start one for people that dont and i wont flame yours you arrogant fools.
Sirkill	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:36:00 - [13] Originally by: marshal123 you were asked to sign it if you agreed you fools go start your own thread If you dont want discussion dont post on a discussion forum
DjDangle	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:37:00 - [14] Originally by: marshal123 Edited by: marshal123 on 06/07/2005 18:35:44 you were asked to sign it if you agreed you fools go start your own thread, how can he get an acurate picture with the same people flaming every thread. this is for people who agree so if not start one for people that dont and i wont flame yours you arrogant fools. Agreed, some fools just cannot help themselves.
Sykosys	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:42:00 - [15] I am all for it and do not support your idea simply because missles were skills that only required lvl 4 in 4-5 diffrent skills and were 10 times better than turrets which need lvl 5 in about 10 skills to be effective. And a player that flies a BS after 1 month and thinks they can solo lvl 4 missions.....Ummmmm unbalanced much. . .or just too much. . .HOW MUCH Too much These forums are for a discussion. (My previous post was sarcasm in case you didn't realize.) SYKOSYS _______________________ "She'll fly apart sir," "FLY HER APART THEN!!!"
Supermonkey	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:48:00 - [16] Edited by: Supermonkey on 06/07/2005 18:50:23 Originally by: DjDangle Originally by: marshal123 Edited by: marshal123 on 06/07/2005 18:35:44 you were asked to sign it if you agreed you fools go start your own thread, how can he get an acurate picture with the same people flaming every thread. this is for people who agree so if not start one for people that dont and i wont flame yours you arrogant fools. Agreed, some fools just cannot help themselves. So you consider a thread full of alt posts that say "signed" constructive? You can not exclude anyone from an open discussion on open boards. Doing so shows that you lack construtive agruments to back up your idea. Missles still do too much damage to small ships, eg long range guns would never ever hit a frigate orbiting you at close range, while cruise missles still do small amounts of damage. But that is something one can live with. I know to adapt is a difficult thing if you have to do it for your first time, but over time you get used to it and when you realize that everything moves towards a balanced game then you should be able to sacrifice your own advantages to that. ~0~
No Consequences	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:50:00 - [17] I support it whole heartedly, my main just built a Scorp and if the prices on Raven's tank cause all the wussy complex dwellers repackage their ships he might be sad.....or not!
marshal123	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:51:00 - [18] this wasnt a discusion and also i have no alts just me and i am aware of no others who have alts.
Autumnleaves	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Sykosys I am all for it and do not support your idea simply because missles were skills that only required lvl 4 in 4-5 diffrent skills and were 10 times better than turrets which need lvl 5 in about 10 skills to be effective. I would agree if the ONLY ship that used missles was in fact the raven, but in fact it is not and MANY of the other missle using ships, frigates especially just got bent over the table and raped up the ass by this change. The problem is two fold. #1 a turret based ship trains turret skills and is effective. a turret/missle frigate has to train the SAME turrat skills, AND missle skills AND fitting skills to fit the huge jump in grid/cpu requirements on rockets. #2 turret users have different levels of turrets, each with proceedingly higher ranges and grid/cpu costs to upgrade through as they train skills. missle users have ONE, count it ONE launcher which some will be unable to use until MONTHS of training have gone by. Think about how much it would blow chunks to start a new caldari/minmitar pilot with these changes... I have no problem with the launcher changes BUT the following should have been done IN ADDITION to this nurf. #1 - the skill books should have been available months before the nurf was implemented. #2 - Intermediary launchers should have been made available with slower rates, less distance & lower grid/cpu usage JUST LIKE TURRETS to ease new players and give them a path to upgrade while they train basic skills JUST LIKE TURRETS. #2a as an alternative all launcher frigs should have had there grids upgraded acordingly to fit at the minimum a rocket launcher and USABLE guns. A minmatar / caldari pilot shoudl NOT have to train for 3 months to fit a launcher + guns if an amar can fit all of his weapon slots in a day.
Verone	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:53:00 - [20] Welcome to the world of turret pilots. We had to invest massive amounts of time to keep up with the damage output of Arbalest Siege Win button tactics from caldari pilots. Train those skills boys... tough going aint it? MY NAME IS VERONE OF SNIGG, AND I AM GOING TO KILL YOU TILL YOU DIE FROM IT.
No Consequences	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:55:00 - [21] Well then it's in the wrong place, why don't you request a petition forum be built, sounds like a good idea for me See it's a Flame and a Troll, now that talent!
Lunartikk	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:59:00 - [22] Originally by: Supermonkey Edited by: Supermonkey on 06/07/2005 18:52:24 Originally by: marshal123 this wasnt a discusion and also i have no alts just me and i am aware of no others who have alts. If it wasn't a discussion then what exactly does this post do on the EVE General Discussion forum? He asked people not to reply if they were happy with the changes, notice normal people started responding until the first troll entered the thread. He posted in the only forum suited to his question and relied on humans to be respectful of it.... how stupid of him.
Supermonkey	Posted - 2005.07.06 18:59:00 - [23] Originally by: No Consequences Well then it's in the wrong place, why don't you request a petition forum be built, sounds like a good idea for me I even have a name for it: Whine-O-RAMA ~0~
Supermonkey	Posted - 2005.07.06 19:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Lunartikk Originally by: Supermonkey Edited by: Supermonkey on 06/07/2005 18:52:24 Originally by: marshal123 this wasnt a discusion and also i have no alts just me and i am aware of no others who have alts. If it wasn't a discussion then what exactly does this post do on the EVE General Discussion forum? He asked people not to reply if they were happy with the changes, notice normal people started responding until the first troll entered the thread. He posted in the only forum suited to his question and relied on humans to be respectful of it.... how stupid of him. Read my other post. Devs don't want threads that say "signed" because that is NOT constructive. And his post has 0 value, all he says is he doesn't like it and want his old missles back. He has no arguments, he did not do any testing, he does not provide any results, he did not do any math, he simply wants something without giving anything. Make a construtive post and I will reply to it constructive, and never ever try to exclude anyone from replying, that shows how constructive you really are. ~0~
Sykosys	Posted - 2005.07.06 19:03:00 - [25] Edited by: Sykosys on 06/07/2005 19:04:21 Originally by: Autumnleaves Originally by: Sykosys I am all for it and do not support your idea simply because missles were skills that only required lvl 4 in 4-5 diffrent skills and were 10 times better than turrets which need lvl 5 in about 10 skills to be effective. I would agree if the ONLY ship that used missles was in fact the raven, but in fact it is not and MANY of the other missle using ships, frigates especially just got bent over the table and raped up the ass by this change. The problem is two fold. #1 a turret based ship trains turret skills and is effective. a turret/missle frigate has to train the SAME turrat skills, AND missle skills AND fitting skills to fit the huge jump in grid/cpu requirements on rockets. #2 turret users have different levels of turrets, each with proceedingly higher ranges and grid/cpu costs to upgrade through as they train skills. missle users have ONE, count it ONE launcher which some will be unable to use until MONTHS of training have gone by. Think about how much it would blow chunks to start a new caldari/minmitar pilot with these changes... I have no problem with the launcher changes BUT the following should have been done IN ADDITION to this nurf. #1 - the skill books should have been available months before the nurf was implemented. #2 - Intermediary launchers should have been made available with slower rates, less distance & lower grid/cpu usage JUST LIKE TURRETS to ease new players and give them a path to upgrade while they train basic skills JUST LIKE TURRETS. #2a as an alternative all launcher frigs should have had there grids upgraded acordingly to fit at the minimum a rocket launcher and USABLE guns. A minmatar / caldari pilot shoudl NOT have to train for 3 months to fit a launcher + guns if an amar can fit all of his weapon slots in a day. When did I ever mention raven?? EDIT:: Oh and I am a minnie only pilot so I also now have to train my missle skills as well, since as a minnie pilot I do use both. And I am 100% behind this fix. SYKOSYS _______________________ "She'll fly apart sir," "FLY HER APART THEN!!!"
Kewlnite	Posted - 2005.07.06 19:07:00 - [26] Personally, I believe CCP went too far the other way on missiles. A corp buddy and myself took 2 Ravens in a lvl 3 Extravagace and took 3 hours to complete. Had in launchers 2 torps, 2 cruise, 5 heavies, and 3 lights plus 2 250MM rails with good skills. He has been playing well over 1 year and I am in the 7 month. If this had been done by 2 BS with turrets and equal skills, it would have been completed much sooner. Now if this had been a level 4 extravagance - that would be different. My torps which had done damage of 553 per shot were doing 123 against fixed structures. The nerf was suppose to fix torps so they were not as effective against smaller ships - that I frankly agree with. But a torp against a non-moveable structure with a damage of only 25% prepatch, that is not right and not following the reasons for the change. To further pour salt in the missiles, the range of the torpodoes was reduced from roughly 90km to under 40km - I tested it. Hopefully the new skills will offset some of that. But basically, CCP just killed missile boats. If the skills don't help, then time for me to move on. For you flamers in this post topic, remember it takes all of us to keep Eve going. With peak users of 9-11,000, the loss of any people will ultimately kill this game. This missile nerf did not equal the playing field - it went from one extreme to another.
Sykosys	Posted - 2005.07.06 19:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Kewlnite Personally, I believe CCP went too far the other way on missiles. A corp buddy and myself took 2 Ravens in a lvl 3 Extravagace and took 3 hours to complete. Had in launchers 2 torps, 2 cruise, 5 heavies, and 3 lights plus 2 250MM rails with good skills. He has been playing well over 1 year and I am in the 7 month. If this had been done by 2 BS with turrets and equal skills, it would have been completed much sooner. Now if this had been a level 4 extravagance - that would be different. My torps which had done damage of 553 per shot were doing 123 against fixed structures. The nerf was suppose to fix torps so they were not as effective against smaller ships - that I frankly agree with. But a torp against a non-moveable structure with a damage of only 25% prepatch, that is not right and not following the reasons for the change. To further pour salt in the missiles, the range of the torpodoes was reduced from roughly 90km to under 40km - I tested it. Hopefully the new skills will offset some of that. But basically, CCP just killed missile boats. If the skills don't help, then time for me to move on. For you flamers in this post topic, remember it takes all of us to keep Eve going. With peak users of 9-11,000, the loss of any people will ultimately kill this game. This missile nerf did not equal the playing field - it went from one extreme to another. Sorry man but have you learned all the new missle skills yet?? Train them up first then come back. Patience is a virtue. Oh and for you Missle users realize some proj ammo got a slight reduction in actual dmg.....you don't see me comming up here going bonkers about it. Just time to test out better ranges SYKOSYS _______________________ "She'll fly apart sir," "FLY HER APART THEN!!!"
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.06 19:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Corvus Dove If you read the bug blog, it's apparent that there are some minor issues with the missile nerf/buff that need to be corrected. From the look of it, the signature radius/damage calculation is screwed. Good to see missions take in the arse though. Newbies in Ravens no more! Is there a link to this said 'bug blog'? --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.06 19:13:00 - [29] I want all level 4 agents moved to 0.0 space. Anything else is just carebearish.
Quanteeri	Posted - 2005.07.06 19:16:00 - [30] Edited by: Quanteeri on 06/07/2005 19:18:26 WTB: All your crusty old useless Ravens. 25mil each. Does anyone else see a whole bunch of Raven insurance payouts coming soon? Why not just train your basic missile skills to lvl3-4, would take like 2 days to get back to where you started. Though I do have to admit, I don't understand the physics behind a full-on torpedo doing reduced damage relative to a ship's size.

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