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Evil Cain
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:10:00 -
[61]
I am very unhappy with this new nerf and am thinking about closing all my accounts 5 in all
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:14:00 -
[62]
I would say keep the changes as it gives me more to train for, but fix the problems with them. If your gonna nerf them at least get them right.
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Mitawyn
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:18:00 -
[63]
  Originally by: Autumnleaves
Originally by: Sykosys
I am all for it and do not support your idea simply because missles were skills that only required lvl 4 in 4-5 diffrent skills and were 10 times better than turrets which need lvl 5 in about 10 skills to be effective.
I would agree if the ONLY ship that used missles was in fact the raven, but in fact it is not and MANY of the other missle using ships, frigates especially just got bent over the table and raped up the ass by this change.
The problem is two fold.
#1 a turret based ship trains turret skills and is effective. a turret/missle frigate has to train the SAME turrat skills, AND missle skills AND fitting skills to fit the huge jump in grid/cpu requirements on rockets.
#2 turret users have different levels of turrets, each with proceedingly higher ranges and grid/cpu costs to upgrade through as they train skills. missle users have ONE, count it ONE launcher which some will be unable to use until MONTHS of training have gone by. Think about how much it would blow chunks to start a new caldari/minmitar pilot with these changes...
I have no problem with the launcher changes BUT the following should have been done IN ADDITION to this nurf.
#1 - the skill books should have been available months before the nurf was implemented.
#2 - Intermediary launchers should have been made available with slower rates, less distance & lower grid/cpu usage JUST LIKE TURRETS to ease new players and give them a path to upgrade while they train basic skills JUST LIKE TURRETS.
#2a as an alternative all launcher frigs should have had there grids upgraded acordingly to fit at the minimum a rocket launcher and USABLE guns. A minmatar / caldari pilot shoudl NOT have to train for 3 months to fit a launcher + guns if an amar can fit all of his weapon slots in a day.
I think you put that quite well, and I also support what you have said here. If they had to cut us off as they have, they should have done it in stages and not all at once. But when enough of us make enough noise about it all, they will strangle someone else just to get us to shut up on this subject. The world will keep on turning, life will go on, but will people adapt in spite of all the gloating going on by certain sectors? I don't know. As a multiple account owner who has never posted with anything less than their main, I cannot say. I just know this is the first time I have seen CCP do anything to gut an entire group of their player base. Sad.
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Chucky
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:23:00 -
[64]
WTB Ravens, Caracals and Kestrels 1 isk each(I have lvl 5 scrapmetal skill)
But honestly the changes to missiles can be over come by skill somewhat, but the powergrid increase was way out of line
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Mitawyn
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:25:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Bozse
Here u go.
btw im a raven pilot and see no problems with the changes.
This was old and stale months ago. Haven't you got anything original?
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Cantari
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:40:00 -
[66]
Ahem....The Gallente Complained when rails got nerfed, Minnies complained when Pojectiles got nerfed and the Ammarr complained when the lasers to their turn in the nerfing room......which is why I'm not surprised Caldari now complain when their beloved missiles get nerfed.
People have to remember that CCP built this game to be MULTIPLAYER. Therefore they will balance it so that to be successful many players will have to band together.
If a Raven can't solo a lvl 4 mission (which were designed for 2+ bs and support ships BTW  )then get some friends and share the fun.
If a Raven can no longer FTWPWN any other bs/cruiser in pvp then....you guessed it...get some friends and share the gate camp loving! You see? Now the raven can no longer do every thing under the shiny eve suns it will mean banding together with people that can cover its short falls.
It cant kill frigs? Take an Assault Ship/Inty or two.
It cant effectively kill cruiser that are fast moving at close range? Take a blasterthron/Diemos/Rax/Maller
You see? Its not so hard to figure out ways around the "Problems" the raven now suffers (along with every other ship and race out there). Now we have all been nerfed and will all have to play together to get any where. So stop the fighting and break out the hot milk and cookies.
Cantari 
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Aneril
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:47:00 -
[67]
I do not like missile changes. chnges are needed, new skills are needed, but as i think this is not the way. so i agree with petition.
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Drunken Claptrap
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:55:00 -
[68]
Signed
Draft Beer Not People |
Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:57:00 -
[69]
you do realize that the more people sign this thread, the more this change was needed right?
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Aneril
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:00:00 -
[70]
to be honest i do not care nor expect that it will change, i just want to show my disaprovment
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Reite
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:08:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Sorja
blablablabla
How do you explain the corp asks me to fly covert ops, harpy or interceptor because nobody wants me in a pathetic raven?
blablabla
I dont think ive ever seen any of u guys in anything else than a frig/assault frig/inty/covert op anyway.
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infused
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:10:00 -
[72]
God damm. Please stop this.
Train the skills. OMG I CANT PAWN ANYTHING!!!!!!
It's like me trying to shoot a drone with Tachyon's, does it work? NO.
So why should a Torpedo work?
[World Domination]
[Patch 3366-3538: Mirror Here] |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:13:00 -
[73]
Originally by: infused
God damm. Please stop this.
Train the skills. OMG I CANT PAWN ANYTHING!!!!!!
It's like me trying to shoot a drone with Tachyon's, does it work? NO.
So why should a Torpedo work?
Well, being pedantic here, I could say a torpedo and a tachyon beam have absolutely nothing inc ommon and therefore it is useless to compare them in such a rigid fashion.
However, CCP are unable to make missiles work differently but with the same effects any other way than the one which has been implemented while retaining some sense of individualism with turrets.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
infused
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:14:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: infused
God damm. Please stop this.
Train the skills. OMG I CANT PAWN ANYTHING!!!!!!
It's like me trying to shoot a drone with Tachyon's, does it work? NO.
So why should a Torpedo work?
Well, being pedantic here, I could say a torpedo and a tachyon beam have absolutely nothing inc ommon and therefore it is useless to compare them in such a rigid fashion.
However, CCP are unable to make missiles work differently but with the same effects any other way than the one which has been implemented while retaining some sense of individualism with turrets.
It is the same, that is the point.
Small, Med, Large Guns
Light Missles, Heavy, Torps...
Get it?
[World Domination]
[Patch 3366-3538: Mirror Here] |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:18:00 -
[75]
Turrets have tracking, range, different ammo ranges and ammo dmg types to contend with. That means there are many skills to train to gain effectiveness.
Missiles were not affected by tracking, were limited to one kind of damage but received constant high damage, their range was always adequate but were limited by speed of reaching target.
These have now been fixed with the addition of new skills. The only difference is that you can't one volley a frigate anymore. That's all you really have to cope with and it's really an easy adaptation.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jackal79
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:19:00 -
[76]
Missiles have been nerfed to the point that they are far weaker than comparable turrets with similar skills. I have heavy missiles III trained and medium hybrid III trained. My heavy missiles do 18 damage to frigates under 20km. My 250mm rail is doing way more per shot and it fires more rapidly.
The nerf should be reduced.
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Seth Killbain
I would say keep the changes as it gives me more to train for, but fix the problems with them. If your gonna nerf them at least get them right.
Agree with that.
Agree with the fact that missiles did need nerfing, but it seems the nerf is riddled with bugs (e.g. target painters not working on MWDing targets) which makes the nerf worse than it actually is. And I still don't agree with the small ship, small damage thing.
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VSX EVE Design |
Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:21:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sykosys
Originally by: Kewlnite
Oh and for you Missle users realize some proj ammo got a slight reduction in actual dmg.....you don't see me comming up here going bonkers about it. Just time to test out better ranges 
SYKOSYS
Slight is one thing. Fixed structures. This means non moving. This means that the missle should be doing full damage. Hitting a fixed structure my lvl 5 cruise missles are hitting barly over 100 damage. That means all the prediction skills to level 5 gonna do nothing for that also means training any of the new skills except the warhead one which is only 2% per level so 5 levels of it gonna give me what? around 110 120 damage max? with level 5 cruise missle? Thats just goofy.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:22:00 -
[79]
Although, I will admit that the reduction in effectiveness of named target painters seems quite unneeeded.
It simply forces yet another skill train for Raven pilots. I don't think the reduction in effectiveness of TP's has the same effect on turret users.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Although, I will admit that the reduction in effectiveness of named target painters seems quite unneeeded.
It simply forces yet another skill train for Raven pilots. I don't think the reduction in effectiveness of TP's has the same effect on turret users.
Seems from posts in the Ships/Modules forum that Target Painters may not be affecting missile damage AT ALL. 
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VSX EVE Design |
Reite
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:25:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Jackal79
Missiles have been nerfed to the point that they are far weaker than comparable turrets with similar skills. I have heavy missiles III trained and medium hybrid III trained. My heavy missiles do 18 damage to frigates under 20km. My 250mm rail is doing way more per shot and it fires more rapidly.
The nerf should be reduced.
you got it all covered there! All the situasions, all the math, everything.
The shere stupidity of some people amazes me.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:27:00 -
[82]
Originally by: VonKaplanek III
Edited by: VonKaplanek III on 06/07/2005 20:23:46
Edited by: VonKaplanek III on 06/07/2005 20:23:32
3 words.........
Adapt or Die...
You had to edit the statememt "adapt or die" 2 times to get it right?
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:29:00 -
[83]
Does anyone know the dmg output of a Raven using light missiles/rockets with all the appropriate skills highly trained (Level 4 or 5 min.)?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Reite
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
Originally by: VonKaplanek III
Edited by: VonKaplanek III on 06/07/2005 20:23:46
Edited by: VonKaplanek III on 06/07/2005 20:23:32
3 words.........
Adapt or Die...
You had to edit the statememt "adapt or die" 2 times to get it right?
The forums is abit fubared right now, so that might be it. When i edited my other post i got some **** about it not existing, even though the edit took place.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:34:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jackal79
Missiles have been nerfed to the point that they are far weaker than comparable turrets with similar skills. I have heavy missiles III trained and medium hybrid III trained. My heavy missiles do 18 damage to frigates under 20km. My 250mm rail is doing way more per shot and it fires more rapidly.
The nerf should be reduced.
And it couldn't POSSIBLY be that you have trained all the gunnery support skills to probably IV, and maybe some to V, while you've trained none of the missile support skills yet. No, that can't be the reason.
Originally by: Morela
"hey! I'm gonna go attack the north! Afk till tuesday!"
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:36:00 -
[86]
Originally by: marshal123
Edited by: marshal123 on 06/07/2005 18:35:44
you were asked to sign it if you agreed you fools go start your own thread, how can he get an acurate picture with the same people flaming every thread. this is for people who agree so if not start one for people that dont and i wont flame yours you arrogant fools.
You dont own the thread.
I disagree.
The changes were needed.
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Neue Regel
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:48:00 -
[87]
Signed twice for two accounts.
I was able to do level 3 missions prior to the patch, now I cant. I had to cancel three in a row last night and lost standing, the last one, which took me prior to the patch like 20 min to complete, now took me almost 1.5 hours. Not going to make much in that time.
I hate to go back to mining or doing the little level 2 missions but I guess I will for a while till I get my skills up.
PS. I have trained three of the new missile skils to level 2 already, I see nothing that makes a difference, maybe at level 4 you may notice it. I guess I go back to staring at rocks till I can put more SP into missile and Gunnery too.
Maybe I was doing level 3 missions too soon anyway <shrug>
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DeathGrip
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:56:00 -
[88]
What is funny is that when all the other guns where Nerfed everyone that flew a Raven said, ahahahahaha, stop whinning you baby. Now that Missles are nerfed its other way around. I think its pretty equal now. Or even better yet, Missles still don't need as much traininig. For Large Guns to be used you have to train Small, Medium and then Large. To use a Cruise Missle or Torp Spec Skill, all you need is that one to lvl 5.
[i]Everyone needs to bring PVP to the table, Miners, Builders, Researchers, Get yourself a Frig, and help out some, You may even |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:12:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jackal79
Missiles have been nerfed to the point that they are far weaker than comparable turrets with similar skills. I have heavy missiles III trained and medium hybrid III trained. My heavy missiles do 18 damage to frigates under 20km. My 250mm rail is doing way more per shot and it fires more rapidly.
The nerf should be reduced.
Not true
I BET you have some of the following trained. Rapid firing, motion prediction, surgical strike......
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Ben Freegate
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:22:00 -
[90]
I for one am quite happy with the new patch.
WTB: Your crappy raven
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