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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:43:00 -
[1]
It's not the big updates, the direction of the game or the drive towards 0.0 that bug me. NWO, Cosmos, Outposts are all great ideas and the right direction for the game.
It's not even the missile balancing, or the new toys for the PvPers.
It's the minor details, the broken functions and the forgotten promises that really make me want to jack it all in and walk away. The things that shake my confidence in the quality of the product.
For example, the new chat interface. It's buggy as hell and whether or not you like the new font (and I personally find it harder to read on both my monitors), it's the poor formatting, the broken portraits, the broken word wrapping and broken commands such as /me that really disappoint.
And then on top of that, it's the real gripes. The fact that the channel member list and the channel tab showing the number of people in the channel are still bugged - it's still telling me there are the wrong number of people in the channel. I'm still shocked by comments coming in from people I can't see being in the channel.
I mean, please, we've been living with that bug for 2 years now, but it never gets any better. Instead we get new toys, shiny interfaces and fonts - but the fact remains it's bugged start to finish.
Or really the two major things that annoy me.
Firstly, the forgotten side of EVE - the Exodus features that still haven't made it. Dreadnoughts, Outposts and COSMOS are all great, but they're not the features you sold to me that made me stay playing for Exodus. The mining features, the contract system, the revised taxes, those were the things that I wanted to see - yet they've slipped away, been ever more ignored as yet more shiny new toys and ships are created, new ideas for 0.0 brought in.
Again, I don't dislike those ideas, but as an industrialist, I'm saddened that they're implemented from concept to final patch before the items you've told us you're working on for non-pvpers. I was offered something you've not delivered, but you've gone and delivered all these extra surprises to the people you've already delivered on your promises too and more.
I'm left feeling a second class customer - ignored and left to cope in a broken game with CCP's Exodus advertising a bitter taste of ashes in my mouth.
And then, finally, of course, the one thing I've been complaining about for almost as long as the game's been out.
Missing Tech 1 items. How anyone can believe in a promise of Tech 2 when you clearly don't have the competence to deliver the things that were missed two years ago, I really don't know. I mean how many patches have we had and still the simple things like Tech 1 Mining drones have been screwed up.
So here we are, perhaps the third or fourth patch promising some of the missing Tech 1 content, and lo and behold, from the Dev Blog onwards, it's gone wrong, I can't find anyone in game who's seen the blueprints for these, and so I'm left to wonder - how much faith can I have left for a group of Developers seemingly unable to add 1 database entry and seed it to the market when they've had 26 months to do it?
So, in conclusion, it's not the game's direction or the major changes that leave me with my mouse hovering over cancel on my accounts, it's the petty annoyances that grind on me every time I log in - the broken chats, the repeatedly breaking autopilot, the missing market entries, those are the things that make me want to give it all up.
I look at what was supposed to come with Exodus and I wonder why I'm still here deceiving myself into thinking it will ever come. 
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Lunas Feelgood
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:57:00 -
[2]
Yea i hate the chat box to, it was fine before they change it
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:01:00 -
[3]
Good, and very valid.
I have not played for two years, barely two months. But yes i did read the Exodus patch notes, and i did notice the issues that very marked (delayed, will be adressed in one of the many upcomming patches)
its vital for any to firstly keep the old promisses before making new ones.
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Dralon
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:12:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dralon on 07/07/2005 00:13:14
I'm gonna hold my tongue on this one and anticipate a couple more patches over the next few weeks to solve a few of these bugs.
The patch deployment was delayed to solve problems, so they say, one nasty theory is that they were pressed to release this patch by 'the man' and extended their deadline to solve the bugs but 'the man' wouldn't be any more leniant with the deadline and that they were still fully aware of many of the bugs upon deployment because of the beta.
Evil thinking I have.
I'm quite a new player as well so i've got hope in me yet for the devs to crush though  . There's a structured sentence in there somewhere 
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Nac MacFeegle
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:12:00 -
[5]
What I want to know... is that they changed the fonts. WHY does the letter 'O' STILL look EXACTLY like the number '0'? Criminy, put a slash or a dot in the center of the zero!
0 and O, 1 and l, l and I should not look the same... that's just bad...
All opinions expressed in this message are personal and don't necessarily reflect those of the poster's corp or alliance. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:20:00 -
[6]
If I can make an acute observation:
If all that ruins eve for you are the little things, isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that mean that the game is so good that the only things left that you don't like are little, inconsequential things? And if that's true, I think the only thing to realise is that these things will be improved over time. The things that have persisted are a problem, though. Have you ever bug-reported that client chat bug? I know I don't get that bug, personally, but if I did I'd certainly report it.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:23:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Valentine Keen
I'm still shocked by comments coming in from people I can't see being in the channel.
Most chat channels I'm in are set to only show people when they speak so that the channel can be larger than some limit.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nac MacFeegle
What I want to know... is that they changed the fonts. WHY does the letter 'O' STILL look EXACTLY like the number '0'? Criminy, put a slash or a dot in the center of the zero!
0 and O, 1 and l, l and I should not look the same... that's just bad...
Quoted for truth.
Originally by: Morela
"hey! I'm gonna go attack the north! Afk till tuesday!"
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.07.07 01:11:00 -
[9]
The text handler for the chat windows and EVEmail has been completely borked ever since I started playing early last fall. I don't know how long it's been true, maybe it's been that way since the start. It annoyed the hell out of me then, and it annoys me just as much to this very day. I hate it. It's such a simple thing, WHY CAN'T IT WORK? With every other computer program you type in, when you type, the letter shows up...NOW. You click and drag, it selects the text you clicked and dragged. You highlight text and hit delete, it deletes the highlighted section, not just some random section it chooses to delete, which may be all or part of what you selected or it may be a totally different section. The time it takes for text to show up after typing it is the worst, it throws me off completely because I can't see what I've typed, so I only realized I typed something completely wrong when I'm way past it, and then it's almost impossible to go back and change it because when you click the mouse on part of the text, it might move you to that part or it might move to somewhere else or it might not move at all. And if I try to get back by deleting everything I've typed, either I select everything back until I get to where I want to start over, and hit delete or start typing...and it doesn't work right (see above), or I just use the backspace key and it takes FOREVER to get back there.
Somebody please fix this. Steal the code from another program. In AIM chat, all of these basic word processing/text handling functions work fine, why not steal their code? Or at least learn from them.
___________________________________________
^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.07.07 01:36:00 -
[10]
Can secure containers be destoryed YET? Do they still have 10 million HPs?
What happened to salvage drones? Repair Drones? Unanchoring drones??
Where is the contract system that I've been really waiting for? :-(
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flummox
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Posted - 2005.07.07 01:45:00 -
[11]
yeah. i totally have to agree. been with the game since it's first month and i've seen Valentine Keen talking about this for a long long time.
so, let's throw him a bone and seed those damn T1 items already.
man, i'm on a posting binge today 8)
my farts stink worse than yours... |
Glowy
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Posted - 2005.07.07 01:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Glowy on 07/07/2005 02:00:43
Here is one I can't believe is still unfixed: The "Enter Items into Escrow" wizard can not sort items by "Group." This has been a real pain the in arse forever. If you have a large number of items in your hanger (and no way to organize them for lack of Station Containers in 0.0... another problem) and you attempt to sort them by "Group" hilarity ensues as the "algorithm" is clearly borked. If you sit there and re-click the "Group" column header a couple hundred times the game will incrementally sort the items...
Look, sorting is Computer Science 101. We've had many decades of smart folks figuring out how to sort stuff using computers. Should we not expect Eve to leverage this knowledge? I sure as $!&*# do and it just burns me to see this. Clearly among "the little things" that ruin Eve.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.07.07 02:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Valentine Keen
....and broken commands such as /me that really disappoint...
/emote never knew that /me DID work, and wonders why people are so upset at having to type three extra letters.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Novacain
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Posted - 2005.07.07 03:13:00 -
[14]
Valid post Valentine.
The little things, "The mining features, the contract system, the revised taxes" are also those things that I see as missing. Small but potentially what could enrich gameplay beyond the new fancy toys that do little to move this game in directions challenging to both devs and players alike. Allow me. Your 'rant' against the chat interface is equally well placed as it perhaps drowns those little things that would make a world of a difference.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.07.07 03:25:00 -
[15]
23 months and 3 days into EVE...
Games change... and because DEVS say x,y,z will make it in doesn't mean that ideas can't change and pet peeves be put on the back burner. If small things make you peeved... don't get married.
--------------------
The Nest
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.07.07 03:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Novacain
Your 'rant' against the chat interface is equally well placed as it perhaps drowns those little things that would make a world of a difference.
Valentine's or mine?
___________________________________________
^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
Novacain
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Posted - 2005.07.07 04:07:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Novacain on 07/07/2005 04:08:41
I would hardly call a gathering amount of 'promised' elements influencing the economic mechanics of eve leading to a potential overhaul, pet peeves. Yet they often drown in a rant over minor albit anoying bugs. Thus I see much of the player driven economy fueled and orbiting npc-agent missions while loot is scantly distributed by pirates. But that is perhaps the essences of being a player bound by holy matrimony.
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Novacain
Your 'rant' against the chat interface is equally well placed as it perhaps drowns those little things that would make a world of a difference.
Valentine's or mine?
Valentine's
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.07.07 04:18:00 -
[18]
i would have to agree
mining drone I <--- this is really the big obvious miss in the dev lub department
taxes - i just saw the new tax system in place and i noticed that it works pretty good, its a good start anyway
as for the other drones (repair,salvage,etc.) yes those would be nice but may have developer issues or something that we dont know about or its still on chalkboard.
i love and hate the amount of things to know ingame from ship types,modules,skills,content,politics,people it makes it so unique, no other game has so much diversity and options to choose from to utilize and that is still running, however you need to be a super-genius or a "rain-man" savaant to remember it all. (i'm neither) 
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Hella May
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 07/07/2005 00:21:21
If I can make an acute observation:
If all that ruins eve for you are the little things, isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that mean that the game is so good that the only things left that you don't like are little, inconsequential things? And if that's true, I think the only thing to realise is that these things will be improved over time. What we have right now is a product that's just been sculpted in a new shape. It'll take time to refine it a little and smooth off a few of those edges before we're all comfortable with it. The things that have persisted are a problem, though. Have you ever bug-reported that client chat bug? I know I don't get that bug, personally, but if I did I'd certainly report it.
valentine is trying to say that for a lot of us, its the little things that are spoiling the game. He and certainly i would like ot see the things that are wrong with the game fixed in preference to features that need not be implemented yet. The things CCP do are great, but they sadly have a habit of promising one thing and delivering anohter thing.
IMO what Valentine says is great, but i would like to point out to him that whilst he (and I for that matter)are industrialists, the focus of this game is sadly moving from pvp general to pvp fighting. This seems to be some thing that CCP embrase. As such they are more intent with creating fights than fixes.
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Valentine Keen
....and broken commands such as /me that really disappoint...
/emote never knew that /me DID work, and wonders why people are so upset at having to type three extra letters.
Because it's a display of new features being brought in broken and worse than what they replace, even when people told them the new features sucked.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
23 months and 3 days into EVE...
Games change... and because DEVS say x,y,z will make it in doesn't mean that ideas can't change and pet peeves be put on the back burner. If small things make you peeved... don't get married.
I know things go on the back burner. But why 100% of the time does it have to be the non-pvper that gets shafted?
My money's as good as anyone's. My gameplay counts too. My contributions to the game are equally valid.
Yet the features I based my plans on never came, whilst PvPers get Dreadnoughts and Outposts to play with that were never even part of the plan for Exodus, let alone missed features.
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Hella May
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:30:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Hella May on 07/07/2005 07:30:26
Valentine you have plenty of chances to move out of Empire and some times it is often down the the miners fear of the unknown and change in gaming style. You would make far more mining crokite than trit (we'll at present)
The opportunities are there if you look for them.
I still understand that you are sayng though
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
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Cornelius Murphy
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hella May
Edited by: Hella May on 07/07/2005 07:25:10
I would just like to point out though, that its about priorities, and CCPS priorities (whether they admit it or not) are to gaining subscriptions and keeping the players interested with new features.
Then it has not worked. I have cancelled 2 of my 3 accounts. This remaining one will stay as I am hoping the new skills and features will prove good in the long run, I just refuse to pay for 3 accts til I find out.
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smuld
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Valentine Keen
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 07/07/2005 07:23:48
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
23 months and 3 days into EVE...
Games change... and because DEVS say x,y,z will make it in doesn't mean that ideas can't change and pet peeves be put on the back burner. If small things make you peeved... don't get married.
I know things go on the back burner. But why 100% of the time does it have to be the non-pvper that gets shafted?
My money's as good as anyone's. My gameplay counts too. My contributions to the game are equally valid.
Yet the features I based my plans on never came, whilst PvPers get Dreadnoughts and Outposts to play with that were never even part of the plan for Exodus, let alone missed features.
Edit:
As an example, adding the promised dynamic asteroid respawning would have made low sec and early 0.0 space more profitable, as the chances of finding better asteroids increased.
Who knows how many people this could have drawn out to dabble in 0.4s and even 0.0s for the sake of mining a few rarer rocks.
People complained of missions drawing people back to Empire, but as a miner, I never got the chance to move out from Empire.
i can only agree with u.
this is really becomming a PvP game. If it was me who was making this game, then if u was to have -0.1 in standing then u cant come into empire becrouse u have kill`d another player, just like en real life(police will kill u when he see u)
then they have to think about killing, and then we dont have so many weekend pirats.
but for now, i will stay in my little ship and mine some ore in empire, so i dont die
regards smuld
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Hyperforce99
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:37:00 -
[25]
yeh, some things never got added that sux
they also promised factory's for POS's but now they added those to outpostes, what the hell!
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Hella May
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cornelius Murphy
Originally by: Hella May
Edited by: Hella May on 07/07/2005 07:25:10
I would just like to point out though, that its about priorities, and CCPS priorities (whether they admit it or not) are to gaining subscriptions and keeping the players interested with new features.
Then it has not worked. I have cancelled 2 of my 3 accounts. This remaining one will stay as I am hoping the new skills and features will prove good in the long run, I just refuse to pay for 3 accts til I find out.
To be quite blunt my friend: You are one of a minority - more than joined and stayed than left.
One could go one abour the product life cycle and all that.
As for Valentines' post: I still totally agree with it
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
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Lidza
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:57:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lidza on 07/07/2005 07:58:17
Valentine Keen,
Well written and very good points that CCP keeps missing.
Anyway I'm on holidays from EVE... from time being its Battlefield 2 to get away from EVE boredom and then I'll consider if I'd continue with EVE or not.
Even with this new additions, EVE continues a bit dull
LAG remains unchanged... fleet combat continues a complete joke due to LAG.
With the tons of dropes made my npcs, T1 market is dead with exception of T1 ships. So why bother buying BPOs and research them!
T2 market its on the limbo! BPO monopoly intruduced by CCP (like they did with miner 2's well before this lotto nocense) the prices of frigates are over 10x their value.
The npc missions are so boring and repetitive.
So whats the point of playing this game a game? Its just to see the char SP points slowly raising?
Just a though!
Cya one day in BF2 
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Xhanserbal
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:57:00 -
[28]
Divisional Wallets would have been so nice to see and the new mining system.
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.07.07 08:01:00 -
[29]
my gripe is the evemail system, for some reason the SOAB will just keep on blinkin' no matter how many times i click on all my mail. as well as not being able to send without clicking on portrait.
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Dante Chusuk
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Posted - 2005.07.07 08:29:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Dante Chusuk on 07/07/2005 08:29:24
Very well put there Valentine in your original post and replies.
I think that people quitting aren't really going to bring the issues people want to "complain" about to the fore (neither will "omgbbqfishstixmymisllsrbrkn") but a reasoned and well written post such as your might draw a bit more attention from the devs (when they have cleared the bugs from CW). There are aspects of Exodus I won't use but I would still like to see them followed through for the players that will use them so they can contribute to Eve in the way they want to.
Some days I wish I was as literate as someone like Valentine but at least this way he can post and I can agree or ask questions
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