| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
URDEAD2ME
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
0
   |
Posted - 2011.10.11 00:32:00 -
[91] - Quote
the amount of time that iv seen caps log off when we was fighting was enough to make me wanna kick my dog so im glad they done this ... so is my dog. |
Karnhell
BOAE INC
BricK sQuAD.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 00:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
1. Remote ECM burst nerf. Not sure how this makes a big difference, but fine.
2. 20% HP reduction. Fine, this is a needed change.
3. Fighters and fighter-bombers only. So now I can't shoot towers anymore, only the mods outside of the shield. Every other ship in the game can do this, but supers can't. Silly, but whatever. I can see why it was done so I'll live with this nerf too.
4. Reduce dronebay from 200k to 125k (Aeon). Um, what? First I can only have fighters and fighter-bombers, then you tell me I can only carry a full complement of one plus five of the other? Now I'm getting mad. Forget deploying anywhere, who's going to carry the other half of my drones for me in case I need to swap out from structure shoot to fleet fight? And now, since I still can't dock, I need a POS with a corp hangar to hold them and a ship hangar for the fitting service to do the swap. Dumb dumb dumb. May as well just carry fighters only and let much (much!) cheaper Dreads do the structure shoots. Except...
5. Increase fighter signature resolution from 125 to 400. Seriously? Are you on crack? First I can't carry regular drones now my fighters are pretty useless for anything other than shooting structures and capitals. Well, I guess they'll hit a battleship. If it's sitting still. Maybe.
Side note: the fighter nerf affects all carriers, not just supers. No more ratting or assigning fighters with any carrier.
6. Change to logoff mechanics. ZOMGWTFMADBRO! You're telling me that if I get tackled by some silly little Flycatcher I'm completely screwed?! Follow me here: I can't jump or warp while bubbled. I can't launch Hobgoblins or Gardes and kill him because I don't have those anymore thanks to #3. I can't launch fighters and kill him, my fighters (if I even had room to bring them thanks to #4) can barely hit a battleship thanks to #5, how much luck will they have against a destroyer? And I can't log off (or god help me, lose my internet connection) because as long as he shoots me once every 15 minutes he can basically hold me there until he runs out of bubbles (over three hours!). That's just one example. Imagine sitting there aggro with your big expensive shiny ship, losing your internet connection, finally getting back on and finding that you were killed because someone probed you with a T1 frigate (supers are EASY to probe out) and shot you once every 15 minutes for 22 hours until his buddies finally formed up. No reason to rush, it's not like you're going anywhere! Crazy. And is this change really needed after implementing #2? I'd rather take a 40% HP reduction than take this change to logging off.
So, to re-cap:
#1 is fine.
#2 is fine and long overdue.
#3 or #4 but not both.
#5 is complete crap. Every carrier pilot should be screaming.
#6 means it's too risky to log in for more than updating skill queue. May as well let the account lapse until it's un-nerfed :( |
Soldarius
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
Draculina Alucardi wrote:...tears...
also
Karnhell wrote:...moar tears...
I can haz supers?
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Epic voice
Epic.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
EVE is a machiavellian game.
Now CCP is acting up and is breaking the status quo.
all i want to say to this is Hurray!!
(and im sure old Niccol+¦ would aswell)  |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
37
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Sort of a bad example, modern supercarriers can win wars with most countries on earth by themselves.
Yes, when that country is the USA, England, or Russia, and soon possibly China too.
These are the "superpowers" of our planet that basically say what goes for the most part, for good or bad (that's not the topic here).
So in many ways, while you might be right in my assertion of comparing aircraft carriers to supers, your pointing out a RL comparison is in fact proving a point commonly made about supers being OP or the game being "caps online". The reason is, your RL comparison points out that indeed a RL carrier can PWN like an entire navy fleet, but only against smaller, weaker countries.
And often this is used to control areas - in the case of the west - way more land and seas than a nation should control (again for good or bad but once you centralize power, the bad people take control and make sure it's bad eventually).
Beyond this level I don't know - never flew a super and spent more time running from them than fighting them.
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
91
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:
You win the game, all of it, really you sir win at life.
Naaaaah, winning at life would be possessing a real-life Rifter that I can fly around in to visit Pluto and the asteroid belt in the Sol system when I'm not sitting at my computer playing EvE. And, yes, it would have 200mm autocannons that I can use to blow up old satellites and other assorted space junk floating in orbit around Earth.
Ok, scratch that. I was totally wrong. Winning at life would be buying up the old International Space Station once its declared obsolete, duct taping some 1400mm artillery cannons and an engine onto the exterior, naming it "Clear Skies", and taking up residence.
Either way, I think I better start saving my isk!
|
Kengutsi Akira
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:50:00 -
[97] - Quote
if they can make is so that supers stay on the grid after logoff if agressed, why cant they do that for all ships |
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:51:00 -
[98] - Quote
Karnhell wrote:
#3 or #4 but not both.
#5 is complete crap. Every carrier pilot should be screaming.
#6 means it's too risky to log in for more than updating skill queue. May as well let the account lapse until it's un-nerfed :(
In answer to all of the above, where is your sub-cap support? Stop thinking in old terms and think as a combinded fleet instead of your solo wtfpwn mobile. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
91
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:01:00 -
[99] - Quote
3.) Fit your ship to do ONE thing well, bring a friend who can do the other.
4.) Bring friends that can kill small ships.
5.) Bring friends that can kill small ships.
6.) Bring friends that can kill small ships.
If this is too difficult for you to manage, you're probably better off unsubbing or finding a different Alliance. Sounds like your current fleetmates have similarly all bought their capital toons from Ebay, and are at a loss when it comes to competently flying ships that can easily protect you from the threats you're so terrified of. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
91
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:07:00 -
[100] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:if they can make is so that supers stay on the grid after logoff if agressed, why cant they do that for all ships
There isn't much need, the current mechanics really only impact ships like Jump Freighters and Supercaps, where the HP buffer is enough for the logoffski to endure 15 mins of whatever DPS they are likely to encounter.
I mean, they could reset the timer every time something shoots your battleship, but how many situations will you find where a battleship can survive 15 mins of damage and not pop? I suppose if you logoff in an otherwise empty system so you can survive the noobship that's tackling you.... |
baltec1
86
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:13:00 -
[101] - Quote
The darkness of the supers has come to an end |
Digital Messiah
N7 Corporation
40
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:19:00 -
[102] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Reeno Coleman wrote:Shocking. You can lose your stuff.
Welcome to EVE.
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" |
Griznatch
SHITTIEST CORP EVER
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Kengutsi Akira wrote:if they can make is so that supers stay on the grid after logoff if agressed, why cant they do that for all ships There isn't much need, the current mechanics really only impact ships like Jump Freighters and Supercaps, where the HP buffer is enough for the logoffski to endure 15 mins of whatever DPS they are likely to encounter. I mean, they could reset the timer every time something shoots your battleship, but how many situations will you find where a battleship can survive 15 mins of damage and not pop? I suppose if you logoff in an otherwise empty system so you can survive the noobship that's tackling you....
After a player logs out, there is a check for player aggression every 15 minutes. If you have been aggressed, the timer extends for 15 minutes; if you have not been aggressed, you disappear as before. Note: this is only for player aggression and will not change what happens when you log off during fights against NPCs.
I see nothing that says only supers. This appears to me like it will affect everyone.
|
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
155
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:35:00 -
[104] - Quote
All this thread has taught me is that Nulli pilots don't understand supercaps...or have good reading abilities.
Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
Although the changes will change some tactics.
I really don't see how the changes are going to make a difference.
Most alliances don't have Issues fielding sub cap fleets.
So all these are going to do is create a larger spread between the large and small alliances.
Maybe.
I am more concerned about the fighter nerf and in turn the normal carrier nerf.
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:59:00 -
[106] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:
I am more concerned about the fighter nerf and in turn the normal carrier nerf.
This is the one change I have a little hard time with, and not just because I recently acquired a carrier and the ability to fly it. I guess its just that Fighters now occupy a very weird place - they are physically smaller than frigates. They have Cruiser HP, but can apparently only shoot battleships.
So now they are barely larger than drones (still), tank like cruisers, but put out damage that can only hit battleships.
Just exactly what ARE fighters supposed to be? Just tanky heavy drones now, basically? |
Nurdra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:04:00 -
[107] - Quote
What is the advantage of a sc over a dread after this patch? I can only find disadvantages for a much higher price...
1. A dread can dock, a sc can't.
2. A dread makes nealy 50% of the dps but costs only about 10-20% of a sc. (dread dps will be improved)
3. Guns of a dread can't be killed, fighter/bombers can be killed and no room in dronebay for replacement.
4. A dread can shoot a pos, a sc can't.
can anyone show me 1 or 2 reason? (serious question)
And don't tell me just the ehp, because the ehp per isk is not higher either after the 20% nurf... |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
320
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:06:00 -
[108] - Quote
If you cant support a fleet of Supers then you deserve to lose them. I don't see what the issue is here.
GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |
Kengutsi Akira
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:10:00 -
[109] - Quote
Griznatch wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Kengutsi Akira wrote:if they can make is so that supers stay on the grid after logoff if agressed, why cant they do that for all ships There isn't much need, the current mechanics really only impact ships like Jump Freighters and Supercaps, where the HP buffer is enough for the logoffski to endure 15 mins of whatever DPS they are likely to encounter. I mean, they could reset the timer every time something shoots your battleship, but how many situations will you find where a battleship can survive 15 mins of damage and not pop? I suppose if you logoff in an otherwise empty system so you can survive the noobship that's tackling you.... After a player logs out, there is a check for player aggression every 15 minutes. If you have been aggressed, the timer extends for 15 minutes; if you have not been aggressed, you disappear as before. Note: this is only for player aggression and will not change what happens when you log off during fights against NPCs. I see nothing that says only supers. This appears to me like it will affect everyone.
no more ppl qqing about logoffski
win imo |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:19:00 -
[110] - Quote
Nurdra wrote:What is the advantage of a sc over a dread after this patch? I can only find disadvantages for a much higher price...
1. A dread can dock, a sc can't.
2. A dread makes nealy 50% of the dps but costs only about 10-20% of a sc. (dread dps will be improved)
3. Guns of a dread can't be killed, fighter/bombers can be killed and no room in dronebay for replacement.
4. A dread can shoot a pos, a sc can't.
can anyone show me 1 or 2 reason? (serious question)
And don't tell me just the ehp, because the ehp per isk is not higher either after the 20% nurf...
I think its a fallacy to begin with to even compare the two directly. Supercarriers are not be-all end-all DPS ships. They are larger cousins of carriers, which are a LOGISTICS ship.
Dread guns are extremely limited. They cannot hit moving targets well. Fighters can.
Supercarriers CARRY OTHER SHIPS. You can stash a fleet in them. Your buddies can jumpclone to you, and undock in whatever ship you have in your belly.
Supercarriers can use remote reps. Supercarriers can use Remote ECM bursts, a powerful area of attack weapon.
Supercarriers have the proper type DPS to kill a ship class smaller than themselves (Battleships). Dreads can only attack ships of the same size or larger.
Need more reasons?
Yes, these changes make it difficult to open the EvE ship book and point to the one that is "teh best". But thats the way it should be.
People asking these questions, along with the ones raging over how the changes "destroyed supers", are totally not ready to be flying capital ships to begin with.
I'd start with frigates, than cruisers, than BC's, and learning which ships are used for logi, which are used for DPS, which are used for support, and being able to tell the difference....these are pretty critical skills that appear to be lacking amongst 90% of the supercap pilots of EvE, based on the reactions to the changes.
|
Elexis Venator
Quantum Horizons
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:19:00 -
[111] - Quote
While the general tone of the utterly awesome thread is focusing on logoffski, do we know if the new logoffski rules will apply to people who jump through gates and immediately log off? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
500
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:20:00 -
[112] - Quote
Elexis Venator wrote:While the general tone of the utterly awesome thread is focusing on logoffski, do we know if the new logoffski rules will apply to people who jump through gates and immediately log off?
That depends whether or not someone is waiting on the other side with an ECM burst, I suppose.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
500
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:30:00 -
[113] - Quote
Nurdra wrote:What is the advantage of a sc over a dread after this patch? I can only find disadvantages for a much higher price...
1. A dread can dock, a sc can't.
2. A dread makes nealy 50% of the dps but costs only about 10-20% of a sc. (dread dps will be improved)
3. Guns of a dread can't be killed, fighter/bombers can be killed and no room in dronebay for replacement.
4. A dread can shoot a pos, a sc can't.
can anyone show me 1 or 2 reason? (serious question)
And don't tell me just the ehp, because the ehp per isk is not higher either after the 20% nurf...
Well there's the tiny matter of still having 10 or more times the EHP, but if having an order of magnitude better tank isn't enough for you, there are others like:
Being mobile while applying DPS,
Still applying 10-50% more DPS than dreads (eg: Nyx vs Revalation),
Able to apply that DPS anywhere on grid
Not having to seige for any minutes at all in order to apply full DPS (meaning you can jump to an exit cyno at any time and you
Can be remote repped while still being EW-immune, both of which are massive defensive advantages btw),
Not having to use your precious jump-out/rep capacitor to apply DPS,
Not having to use consumable stront/ammo to apply DPS,
Being able to fit a remote ECM burst, and being able to fit cloaks, heavy neuts and smartbombs, while not compromising your DPS
And finally, in the case of the Nyx and the Hel, looking marvellous.
So yeah to me it still looks like in a fleet fight, a supercarrier is way more powerful than a dread.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:34:00 -
[114] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Well there's the tiny matter of still having 10 or more times the EHP, but if having an order of magnitude better tank isn't enough for you, there are others like:
Being mobile while applying DPS,
Still applying 10-50% more DPS than dreads (eg: Nyx vs Revalation),
Able to apply that DPS anywhere on grid
Not having to seige for any minutes at all in order to apply full DPS (meaning you can jump to an exit cyno at any time and you
Can be remote repped while still being EW-immune, both of which are massive defensive advantages btw),
Not having to use your precious jump-out/rep capacitor to apply DPS,
Not having to use consumable stront/ammo to apply DPS,
Being able to fit a remote ECM burst, and being able to fit cloaks, heavy neuts and smartbombs, while not compromising your DPS
And finally, in the case of the Nyx and the Hel, looking marvellous.
So yeah to me it still looks like in a fleet fight, a supercarrier is way more powerful than a dread.
I like that we both responded with two seperate lists of reasons that Super's are still better. You win though, you had even more than me!
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
500
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:48:00 -
[115] - Quote
Yeah i know he only asked for 1 or 2 advantages and he got 8 major ones (I forgot to mention that supercarriers can also refit on the battlefield as well as enabling friendly ships to refit, and they carry 2M m^3 of fitted ships for your friends to reship into, so even if your subcap fleet runs into some problems, they can keep fighting, so yeah actually 10 major advantages) because once you get thinking about it, supercaps are still so incredibly powerful and useful that it's hard to stop noticing them once you start.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
P42ALPHA
nul-li-fy
Atlas.
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 04:32:00 -
[116] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Tippia wrote:Chronix Beebelbrox wrote:Dorian Wylde wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:An aircraft carrier can no longer be as tough as an entire navy fleet? Sort of a bad example, modern supercarriers can win wars with most countries on earth by themselves. Um no. An aircraft carrier will not even leave port without the compliment of it's defensive support fleet of cruisers, destroyers and subs. Not to mention all the space based and land based assets tasked to a carrier battle GROUP. A "modern american supercarrier", while truly able to wield more destructive military power anywhere in the world than all but the strongest military forces in the world, it does nothing "by themselves." GǪfor a nice illustration, look up the Millennium Challenge 2002 wargame and what happened there. The tl;dr of it is this: welpfleets works in real life tooGǪ they really work. I just read about it. And I LOL'ed hard.
Good read, would like to watch that Discovery Channel show on it. |
Sin Meng
Creative Assembly
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 04:35:00 -
[117] - Quote
Winter is Coming
Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
38
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 04:36:00 -
[118] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Yeah i know he only asked for 1 or 2 advantages and he got 8 major ones (I forgot to mention that supercarriers can also refit on the battlefield as well as enabling friendly ships to refit, and they carry 2M m^3 of fitted ships for your friends to reship into, so even if your subcap fleet runs into some problems, they can keep fighting, so yeah actually 10 major advantages) because once you get thinking about it, supercaps are still so incredibly powerful and useful that it's hard to stop noticing them once you start.
You are correct sir.
But...
most of the raging about the nerf is apparently by people who know only to use the super as a DPS winmobile and probably don't know about all of these other capabilities you listed.
If you and your friends were to solve your problems - all of them - by throwing tons of monkey wrenches at clogged pipes, you would never learn beforehand that you can actually fix the plumbing with them.
So it appears that the blobaholics are like "WTF?". They still have very powerful and useful ships.
|
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
28
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 04:54:00 -
[119] - Quote
Using logoffs to only "commit" for 15 minutes was a bit of a exploit TBH.
Better nano those supers so you can warp around during the 15 minute cooldown. |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
92
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 05:45:00 -
[120] - Quote
You mean... it's actually possible to lose supercaps now?
Like every other ship in the game?
 |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |