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ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:05:00 - [1] so im quite **ed by this. whilst my income gets cut ym assets lose worth (and i mainly have invested all my isk in assets such as ships etc) the people who saved bilions pre patch now gets a increase in buyingpower big time. this extremely **es me. this is the most unfair thing cpp has ever done.
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:09:00 - [2] Edited by: ErrorS on 10/07/2005 10:09:16 why did your assets lose worth? edit: oh nevermind, i get it.. i should sleep ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:10:00 - [3] Can you give us some examples of deflation that you have run across so far? Do you think it's the deregionalization of the markets that caused this? Or perhaps its level 4 mission rewards being cut? Expanding on your concerns may make them understandable
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:10:00 - [4] oh .. and don't worry about the billionares.. they have frieghters, dreadnaughts and outposts to spend their isk on. Trust me.. if you have 1b+ in your wallet right now you expect to spend it on a freighter or dreadnaught. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:29:00 - [5] Originally by: ErrorS Edited by: ErrorS on 10/07/2005 10:09:16 why did your assets lose worth? edit: oh nevermind, i get it.. i should sleep cause if we earn less money we cand spend much money so the manufacturers have to adjust and sell items for less isk that means i also cant resell my equippment for the same amount i bought them. the deflation will be caused in cutting mission rewards. cut bounties. deregionalize markets (more traveling less isk/h) so at the end more work for all of us for les isk = less money to spend.
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Deja Thoris Can you give us some examples of deflation that you have run across so far? Do you think it's the deregionalization of the markets that caused this? Or perhaps its level 4 mission rewards being cut? Expanding on your concerns may make them understandable deflation i s not a quick process it will occur over the next couple of months if it does (at all).
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:35:00 - [7] yeah, after thinking about it I saw that you were right. Sell now and hold onto the isk. Assets are riskier then straight cash anywhere. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Kunming	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:38:00 - [8] Ppl were practically printing ISK in empire; now you have to travel around abit, group up, maybe put up to the local pirates once in a while. As for the billioners, what Errors said. The billions spend on dread/freighter/component BPOs all go to NPC and dont return back into the system. With so many billions gone, your ISK actually gains more value. Intercepting since BETA
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:56:00 - [9] yeah but that does put us on unequal steps. billionairs getting richer without doing anything! this has to be stopped with introducing progressive wealth taxes. there is no other way. otherwise you degrading 90% of the eve players.
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.10 10:59:00 - [10] also i completely do not agree that peopl ewill buy dreads and freighters with theyr bilions. there are alot of tech II bpo milionairs out there not belonging to a corporation who isd actually in need of freighters or a dread.
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:00:00 - [11] Originally by: ATRADE yeah but that does put us on unequal steps. billionairs getting richer without doing anything! this has to be stopped with introducing progressive wealth taxes. there is no other way. otherwise you degrading 90% of the eve players. Socialism = Bad Some nice isk sinks = good.
Rafein	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:02:00 - [12] I'm a miner, and I don;t see deflation at all. quickly inflated mineral prices.
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: ATRADE yeah but that does put us on unequal steps. billionairs getting richer without doing anything! this has to be stopped with introducing progressive wealth taxes. there is no other way. otherwise you degrading 90% of the eve players. Socialism = Bad Some nice isk sinks = good. so sergant whats the benefit of a isk sink except making money worth more especially for people actually/allready having it?
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:07:00 - [14] Originally by: ATRADE yeah but that does put us on unequal steps. billionairs getting richer without doing anything! this has to be stopped with introducing progressive wealth taxes. there is no other way. otherwise you degrading 90% of the eve players. How do they get richer without doing anything? They have to buy components, rent factories, maufacture items, move them to market etc etc
Zaldiri	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: ATRADE yeah but that does put us on unequal steps. billionairs getting richer without doing anything! this has to be stopped with introducing progressive wealth taxes. there is no other way. otherwise you degrading 90% of the eve players. How do they get richer without doing anything? They have to buy components, rent factories, maufacture items, move them to market etc etc And compete with a tonne of other manufacturers who are striving to put them out of buissiness
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:20:00 - [16] Edited by: ATRADE on 10/07/2005 11:21:00 is this so hard to understand? if you take out money of a system, money gets more rare so it has higher buying powers. so a industrialist with 3 bilions can now buy stuff worth for 6 bilions cause if you take out money of a economy prices must fall so people can still afford to buy the products. so he can buy more with the same amount of isk. this means people with alot of money in theyre wallets gaining a advantage oever other people without doing anything for it.
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:39:00 - [17] Well, if they had so many ISK in their pockets prepatch too, then they were loosing money. Can't remember seeing anyone complaining that your assets got worth more while their ISK pile got worth less, prepatch? The buying power of isk is still the same relatively between players. Wealthy vs. Poor has nothing to do with it. If the guy with 6 billions doubles his buying power, so does the guy with 6 isk. Assets vs. ISK on the other hand has. And that balance is a gamble. And you just lost, because you didn't interpret all the information you were given _prepatch_ correctly. To call it unfair on the side of CCP is as childish as it comes. And on top of that, as someone else pointed out, the market will not move to show this trend right away, so whats the problem? Liquify. Trak Cranker
Sam Trip	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:46:00 - [18] erm...ok so their's defalation...sucks to be you then. I'm not amazingly rich and i'm not weird enough to kit my ships with modules worth more than itself. The biggest note of deflation can be seen in the missile modules where my arbalests sell for 40-50 mill now...balls. However my primary expenditure being deimos's and eagles will still stay standing. But in game i know people who can cut deals and will give me discounts for being a nice guy so that works still. The economy in EVE is not just who was money and who doesn't. You gotta make your connections too as well as i'm sure most people reading this will have particular people in mind for a particular module when required or have at least had that. To be honest people who have been economically wise and have stocked up on ISK for a time where prices drop then my hats off to them for being patient on buying their kitout. Some people save some people dont. Some people learn how to make isk the others just chug on by. The same could be said if inflation suddenly hit. Lets take those arbalests again...If for some reason they all disappeared they'd probs hit the 80 mill mark again. thats almost double what it is now. I'd be super dupery rich HOWEVER...all those who have been stocking up to buy a set will notice that their wallets have had their "worth" slashed in half so they're 3 bill is now 1.5bill yet mission runners will be able to adapt by just getting more modules. It works both ways. Inflation hits the people with wallets the size of a planet...Deflation hits people with wallets the size of your back pocket. This just happens to be a really good time to be rich. And if you aren't clever enough to adapt to the economy then your a victim of it. P.S. I'll give you a hint...Ravens going down...Tempests and Megas going high
Keta Min	Posted - 2005.07.10 11:57:00 - [19] money isn't everything. if you're so obsessed with others having more than you how can you enjoy the game at all? same goes for rl by the way.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.07.10 12:45:00 - [20] solution is simple. Release cap recharger 2 bpos on market.
Allen Deckard	Posted - 2005.07.10 13:34:00 - [21] Originally by: ATRADE Originally by: ErrorS Edited by: ErrorS on 10/07/2005 10:09:16 why did your assets lose worth? edit: oh nevermind, i get it.. i should sleep cause if we earn less money we cand spend much money so the manufacturers have to adjust and sell items for less isk that means i also cant resell my equippment for the same amount i bought them. the deflation will be caused in cutting mission rewards. cut bounties. deregionalize markets (more traveling less isk/h) so at the end more work for all of us for les isk = less money to spend. Sorry to disagree with you but here is how it stands. As a manufacturer under the old system 90% of the products that I made (dont' make t2) I had to sell at a price so close to cost it was barely worth it. Why? 2 reasons why if you ask me. 1. To many people manufacturing and not enough demand. 2. Rats simply drop to many items and people sell what they get off rats wanting a sell for quick cash so they dump them on the market at the lowest price on the market. They don't care what it takes to make an item cause they didn't make them. Now the less isk part I believe is true but that is another subject. I will have less isk cause it is taking me 5 times longer to move items in and around where I need them. What this is gonna cause me to do is either no longer sell certain items or raise the price (of which I still will not be able to do due to rat drops) It is very complicated once you get into it. Def not cut and dry. The removal of the highway system is not going to make regional market suddely appear as many think it will just mean more travel for most. Although small vendors will pop up in various places selling things people just don't want to travel for.
Razor Jaxx	Posted - 2005.07.10 13:50:00 - [22] Originally by: Luc Boye solution is simple. Release cap recharger 2 bpos on market. Actually, I think T2 bpo's should be like patents. They should be widely released on the NPC market 3/4 months after being distributed through agents. The original bpo holders would still have a 'grace' period during which they could make quite a bundle, with their customers being those people that like to acquire the newer items as soon as they're available. The closer you'd get to global market release, the less the value of the original bpo, thus voiding the insane creation of wealth that is currently at the core of the T2 bpo issue. Would be a fair balance imo.
Ashay	Posted - 2005.07.10 14:09:00 - [23] "Cry More Noob" ... the softest choice in tissue paper. Cold War is/was the Best Patch eva! News Flash: We all knew the highway removal was coming. Some people stockpiled cash instead of assets, and may be reaping the benefit of that decision! Good Fking choice for them! YOU HAD THE OPTION TO LIQUIDATE AND STOCKPILE CASH AS WELL! Here, have a tissue. "Oh noes! I pay the same amount every month - how come some people are richer then me?? <sniff sniff> Life is so unfair - everyone should have the same amount of ISK all the time - it should be communal ISK - boo hoo - boo hoo!" .... <BOOT TO THE HEAD!> CCP: Don't compromise!!!!! You have a winning game, and a winning patch. You know it, we know it. Noobs whining after a change is what noobs do! Don't compromise! This game r0x0rs!**

Oveur	Posted - 2005.07.10 14:33:00 - [24] Originally by: ATRADE so im quite **ed by this. whilst my income gets cut ym assets lose worth (and i mainly have invested all my isk in assets such as ships etc) the people who saved bilions pre patch now gets a increase in buyingpower big time. this extremely **es me. this is the most unfair thing cpp has ever done. Deflation? I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.

Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2005.07.10 14:35:00 - [25] wtb all market data, 500 isk
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.07.10 14:37:00 - [26] /me offers 505 ISK MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Fortior	Posted - 2005.07.10 14:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: ATRADE so im quite **ed by this. whilst my income gets cut ym assets lose worth (and i mainly have invested all my isk in assets such as ships etc) the people who saved bilions pre patch now gets a increase in buyingpower big time. this extremely **es me. this is the most unfair thing cpp has ever done. Deflation? I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet. Dammit Oveur, go home! This is a sunday, as in no-work day

Oveur	Posted - 2005.07.10 14:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Fortior Originally by: Oveur Originally by: ATRADE so im quite **ed by this. whilst my income gets cut ym assets lose worth (and i mainly have invested all my isk in assets such as ships etc) the people who saved bilions pre patch now gets a increase in buyingpower big time. this extremely **es me. this is the most unfair thing cpp has ever done. Deflation? I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet. Dammit Oveur, go home! This is a sunday, as in no-work day Actually, I'm on summer vacation. I guess that makes me an addict in a number of things _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.

Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.07.10 14:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: ATRADE so im quite **ed by this. whilst my income gets cut ym assets lose worth (and i mainly have invested all my isk in assets such as ships etc) the people who saved bilions pre patch now gets a increase in buyingpower big time. this extremely **es me. this is the most unfair thing cpp has ever done. Deflation? I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet. interesting..... Not shocking, but interesting. I'd figured the added isk sinks might take enough isk out of the economy to get some modest deflation (not an entirely bad thing, especially in moderation....) We need a few more isk sinks then.....
RatBoy Deblade	Posted - 2005.07.10 15:09:00 - [30] Like t2 dreadys?
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.07.10 15:16:00 - [31] Originally by: RatBoy Deblade Like t2 dreadys? Nope, that would not be a real isk sink unless you purchased it from NPCs. The recent isk sinks are the new skills and BPOs on the market from NPCs.
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2005.07.10 18:47:00 - [32] Edited by: Trak Cranker on 10/07/2005 18:47:43 Always nice to see Oveur come in with the usual WTFPWNed style. :) But Oveur, are you willing to debate whether we could have move towards an actual deflation if a large part of of the infused isk are being hoarded in organisations? T2 producers to name one example? For all practicalities taken out of play so to speak. In the long run those ISK would of course more than likely be introduced on the market again. But looking at the present situation, somewhat short term, couldn't the isk in rotation be decreasing? Which could be the case if people start hoarding isk instead of assets.... Trak Cranker

Oveur	Posted - 2005.07.10 19:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Trak Cranker Edited by: Trak Cranker on 10/07/2005 18:47:43 Always nice to see Oveur come in with the usual WTFPWNed style. :) But Oveur, are you willing to debate whether we could have move towards an actual deflation if a large part of of the infused isk are being hoarded in organisations? T2 producers to name one example? For all practicalities taken out of play so to speak. In the long run those ISK would of course more than likely be introduced on the market again. But looking at the present situation, somewhat short term, couldn't the isk in rotation be decreasing? Which could be the case if people start hoarding isk instead of assets.... I general, I think it's overestimated how many people have "billions of trillions". We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. Corp wallets are even less since most corps store their reserves on a mule account. The new skills and ship BP's will certainly remove ISK from the economy, but nothing of the scale to cause any severe deflation. The real sinks are the Outposts. The Outposts will however not be built in any real scale until players start getting their investments back. This is mainly due to the focus on the station services for payback vs. planting a refinery in an Arkonor system. Not only that, Ice systems will also be good candidates for Starbase heavy operatives, in addition to valuable systems clearly benefitting from Outposts due to the Freighter logistics that open up. When you put all these togethere - A real mining Outpost, 2 - 3 systems as Starbase nexuses and an Ice system, all enabled with Freighter logistics - you have some real bang for the bucks. I would also like to point out the sink which is constantly getting bigger, the commodity consumption of Starbases. We now have 932 Starbases online on TQ and that number has been growing 30-40 new Starbases each week. Well, we have some other things we're considering, I can mention for example a monthly auction of 1 of each T2 BP's with minimums ranging from 5-50 Billion ISK. It's not so unlike the real world, where "patents" get more easily licensed after a certain time when they have been out. We'd start making them available some months after they enter TQ (6 months?) Well dunno. I'm on vacation, so trying to spin down my brain after launching the patch and all. Anyways, some more deeper thoughts on the economy. And no, I won't entertain any speculation if we will do the T2 auctions or what you think we're going to do next based on these thoughts - cause they are just thoughts _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.

Larno	Posted - 2005.07.10 20:01:00 - [34] Originally by: Oveur We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. RAWR \o/
F'nog	Posted - 2005.07.10 20:09:00 - [35] Oveur, when you get back to the office can you tell us how much ISK got sucked out of the office this week? I know my corp spent many billions, so I'm curious how much actually left. And was most of it on Tuesday right after the patch? Originally by: Morela "hey! I'm gonna go attack the north! Afk till tuesday!"
pardux	Posted - 2005.07.10 20:27:00 - [36] Originally by: Oveur We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. \o/ im special
Ashelth	Posted - 2005.07.10 21:07:00 - [37] Originally by: Sam Trip erm...ok so their's defalation...sucks to be you then. I'm not amazingly rich and i'm not weird enough to kit my ships with modules worth more than itself. The biggest note of deflation can be seen in the missile modules where my arbalests sell for 40-50 mill now...balls. However my primary expenditure being deimos's and eagles will still stay standing. But in game i know people who can cut deals and will give me discounts for being a nice guy so that works still. This always happens when something get changed. The market imploded on the pulse lasers when they were adjusted... so I sold 200mil of em a week before the patch. I held onto my 1400mm named artys until they were fixed... sold them for 150mil... And 2 weeks ago I dumped ALL of my named missile launchers. Keep up on what's happening on the patch development front and sell your stuff a few weeks before you KNOW the market for those items is going to implode (like the named target painters I dumped yesterday). And honestly, named missile launchers are going to keep dropping in price as the tech 2s come out. Especially since they're pretty easy to train for.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.07.10 23:40:00 - [38] Heh. The Arb Assualts are UP nicely... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
ElricUK	Posted - 2005.07.11 00:30:00 - [39] Quote: I can mention for example a monthly auction of 1 of each T2 BP's with minimums ranging from 5-50 Billion ISK.
Exarch	Posted - 2005.07.11 00:36:00 - [40] Putting unlimted t2 bpos ingame is a terrible idea, even doing it 1/month. Why would you want to make the t2 market suck as bad as t1? Most of the items already don't sell. If you want to do something useful why not make items more customizable by players so we can have a little distinction in our products? T2 bpo numbers ingame should be fixed as a set amount per so many players. If an item costs 300k to make and sells for 12mil it's because everyone wants it, and everyone wants it because it's overpowered. Don't destroy our market because a few annoying people want everything dropped in their laps.
GlimmerMan	Posted - 2005.07.11 00:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Oveur We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. Wow for real? When you read these forums daily it certainly seems like a lot more than that. Oh well, I'm richer than I thought! Blowing s**t up since May 2003
nahtoh	Posted - 2005.07.11 01:28:00 - [42] Edited by: nahtoh on 11/07/2005 01:27:55 Originally by: Oveur I general, I think it's overestimated how many people have "billions of trillions". We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. Corp wallets are even less since most corps store their reserves on a mule account. Well why could that little bit of info came out when the well known "all lvl4 mission runners have a bil in their wallet NERF EM" threads were kicking around... But even then you went and Nerfed the rewards...Why? "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
Steini OFSI	Posted - 2005.07.11 02:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Oveur We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. I think the problem is that people on the forums wich I would assume are at top 1/10 of the actual playerbase, taking into account that most likely 50% of them beeing somewhat more addicted to the game itself and play it 5* more than the average person, so when people look on the forums they are looking at the more high end playing people that devote more time in the game and thus are richer. It gives a skewed picture of the average player and how rich they are and then there is always the my e-pe*** is bigger than yours on forums like these
Typhoid Betty	Posted - 2005.07.11 02:11:00 - [44] Originally by: nahtoh Edited by: nahtoh on 11/07/2005 01:27:55 Originally by: Oveur I general, I think it's overestimated how many people have "billions of trillions". We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. Corp wallets are even less since most corps store their reserves on a mule account. Well why could that little bit of info came out when the well known "all lvl4 mission runners have a bil in their wallet NERF EM" threads were kicking around... But even then you went and Nerfed the rewards...Why? ...lol you are joking right chuckles?
Allen Deckard	Posted - 2005.07.11 02:19:00 - [45] Originally by: GlimmerMan Originally by: Oveur We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. Wow for real? When you read these forums daily it certainly seems like a lot more than that. Oh well, I'm richer than I thought! Hmm well lets do a little bit of math here. Last I heard there were 60000 subscribers. so if 1000 have over a bil that is 1/60th still a pretty large number. But wait. I would venture to say averaged out that every player in game has a second account. Yes I know a good deal have 1 account but I also know alot that have 3 or more so I am gonna pull a number out and say that there are 30000 Unique accounts. I say this cause I don't think most people keep large sums of isk in alt accounts they pick one and keep a majority of their isk there. This brings it to more like 1/30th of the player base is a billionair. That means when I am in a system with 60 players at least 2 of them are billionairs. alt characters don't count simply cause we didn't use them in the origional 60k anyway yah 1 in 30 players a billionair thats alot of stinkin billionairs
Drunk Driver	Posted - 2005.07.11 02:22:00 - [46] Originally by: Exarch Putting unlimted t2 bpos ingame is a terrible idea, even doing it 1/month. Why would you want to make the t2 market suck as bad as t1? Most of the items already don't sell. If you want to do something useful why not make items more customizable by players so we can have a little distinction in our products? T2 bpo numbers ingame should be fixed as a set amount per so many players. If an item costs 300k to make and sells for 12mil it's because everyone wants it, and everyone wants it because it's overpowered. Don't destroy our market because a few annoying people want everything dropped in their laps. Let me see if I can read between the lines. You've got a corner on some tech II item or items. You're making a ga-zillion percent profit. Somebody else wants a piece of that market. CCP might hand it to them. You're freaked out. You scream "unlimited copies" to frighten everybody even though Oveur said only one a month. You're hoping that all the people that want a piece of the Tech II market will suddenly see the light and let you keep your monopoly. That about sum it up? I think the auction is a great idea. I'll never be able to buy anything at 5 to 50 billion isk, but at least SOMEBODY can get a T2 blueprint without waiting to hit the lottery. And besides, you could always bid on the blueprints whenever the auction came up.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.07.11 02:29:00 - [47] Storing your wealth in assets is a risk, and if you have billions you should already know this. Some people benefit, others lose out. If you are not happy with the assets you purchased simply because you look upon them as an isk number, then why have it? Its not unfairness on CCP's part, everyone is treated equally. I know pre-patch one of my officer guns would have sold for 500m-1b easily, now its a lot less thanks to the increased spawns. I don't give a damn because I'm not selling it. You really are a funny person if you expected things like pirate battleships to stay that uncommon forever. The bpcs being available from complexes was announced with exodus. A missing feature like a few others. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
nahtoh	Posted - 2005.07.11 02:48:00 - [48] Originally by: Typhoid Betty Originally by: nahtoh Edited by: nahtoh on 11/07/2005 01:27:55 Originally by: Oveur I general, I think it's overestimated how many people have "billions of trillions". We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. Corp wallets are even less since most corps store their reserves on a mule account. Well why could that little bit of info came out when the well known "all lvl4 mission runners have a bil in their wallet NERF EM" threads were kicking around... But even then you went and Nerfed the rewards...Why? ...lol you are joking right chuckles? And you have been retarded since birth right? "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.07.11 03:16:00 - [49] Edited by: j0sephine on 11/07/2005 03:17:30 "anyway yah 1 in 30 players a billionair thats alot of stinkin billionairs" Not really when you put it against the claims that any month-old noob was able to make billion isk in couple weeks with a Raven and next to no skill. If am in Jita or similar place and there's 200+ people in local doing nothing but mission running and mining, you could expect at least half of them to have this kind of money. (if you believe in what's said on the forums) Instead, it turns out to be just 6-7 of them? pfft, how disappointing...
The Enslaver	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:44:00 - [50] Can we find out roughly how much ISK is currently in the game, Oveur? And how much is entering it daily? Please? -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:58:00 - [51] and how much is taken out again:)
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:13:00 - [52] Originally by: Oveur I general, I think it's overestimated how many people have "billions of trillions". We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. He he... but how many have over a billion if you count their assets, too? - Old Man Singing (Gallente modern art)
Olivin	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Herko Kerghans Originally by: Oveur I general, I think it's overestimated how many people have "billions of trillions". We still have less than 1000 characters have more than 1 billion ISK on his account. He he... but how many have over a billion if you count their assets, too? Why? Just because you have some stuff 35 jumps away, doesn't mean you are rich. Sell it first and if you can gain enough cash for it, you can join the rich club. Olivin
Larno	Posted - 2005.07.11 12:49:00 - [54] Originally by: Exarch Putting unlimted t2 bpos ingame is a terrible idea, even doing it 1/month. Why would you want to make the t2 market suck as bad as t1? Most of the items already don't sell. This is an incredibly stupid post. Im not sure how many BPOs there are for each tech II item, but I think its around 8? or something for ships and 16 for modules... but the point is, 1/month would take 2/3 of a year to even double the amount of output. The Tech I market does NOT suck. I know of several items (in high demand) with over 60% profit margin on them. Hey, Tech II is more like 600%, but 60% is still very good. Originally by: Exarch If you want to do something useful why not make items more customizable by players so we can have a little distinction in our products? Yes, what an incredibly easy thing to implement. This has been suggested many times. If the dev's thought it was a good idea they would do it. Quote: T2 bpo numbers ingame should be fixed as a set amount per so many players. If an item costs 300k to make and sells for 12mil it's because everyone wants it, and everyone wants it because it's overpowered. Per so many players? Well the player count has increased by a huge amount since Cap II BPO's came out, but there aren't any more of those around are there? Originally by: Exarch Don't destroy our market because a few annoying people want everything dropped in their laps. 'Our' market... yes all 0.1% of you. 'A few annoying people' just happen to me 99.9% of the game. If you have a tech II BPO and are not extremely rich, it's either because you are stupid, or lazy.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.11 13:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Larno The Tech I market does NOT suck. I know of several items (in high demand) with over 60% profit margin on them. Hey, Tech II is more like 600%, but 60% is still very good. There are some T1 goods in some places (not even low-sec) where you can make 200%+ profit easily, and shift reasonable quantities. It does take more effort than just grabbing a factory in the region hub and churning stuff out though. T1 producers tip-of-the-day: Check out "non-domestic" goods. e.g., if you're in caldari space, check out projectile weapons. There may not be as much demand for these foreign goods, but there's also likely to be very few other producers to compete with. T1 producers tip-of-the-day 2: Get away from the hubs. With the new map, it's easier than ever to set yourself up in the market "void" between major trade hubs and pick up a lot of good custom at good prices from people unwilling to haul themselves 5+ jumps if you're just a couple of jumps away. "consumables" like ammo are great for this sort of business, but if you can get both ships and associated modules produced there together, you'll do even better. Originally by: Larno Originally by: Exarch If you want to do something useful why not make items more customizable by players so we can have a little distinction in our products? Yes, what an incredibly easy thing to implement. This has been suggested many times. If the dev's thought it was a good idea they would do it. While this would be nice, any system that would allow uniqueness while preventing imbalance would be a nightmare. Not to mention the complete mess it would make of the market by adding yet more variants of every single module. And of course, once one player can do something, any player in theory can get to do it too - nothing would stay unique for long and the only module that would sell well would be the "best" variant.
Lufio II	Posted - 2005.07.11 13:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Larno If you have a tech II BPO and are not extremely rich, it's either because you are stupid, or lazy. That is actually not true. There are T2-Items that aren't in that high demand, especially those where the according T1-Variant isn't hardly used as well, in my example that'd be a Focused Medium Beam Laser II. Have that BPO for ages, and despite having decent prices on them people are still resorting to other T2-Lasers... MSSI Forums Provider of Prorator Blockade Runner Transport Ships in Domain
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2005.07.11 14:01:00 - [57] Well, I had 3 billion ISK the day before the patch... saved it up... and 1/2 a billion after the patch... so that ISK sink worked :) svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Exarch	Posted - 2005.07.11 14:28:00 - [58] Go ahead and look at the sales history for most t2 items, smarbombs, passive hardeners armor/shield, shield extenders, and tons of other junk modules that just won't sell. Most of those items already barely sell above production costs. If you think all t2 items are an isk factory you obviously have no idea what your talking about. And it has been stated before the total bpos of each item are above 30, there are no cartels. Lastly, a 100% markup on t2 isn't bad at all considering the extra work, training, and capitol investment needed. letting agents give out limited run bpcs for rp is really the only reasonable thing to do, and only cause i feel bad for all the people with hundreds of K in rps and no hope of getting a return.

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