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The gap between Industrials and Freighters

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Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.12 22:49:00 - [151] And there is something wrong with that? ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.12 22:53:00 - [152] Originally by: Avon There are many items where the maximum buy price is lower than the maximum sell price, and in high volumes. Sure you are only making a tiny margin, but with good trade skills it is still a profit. Couple that with supply and demand in the same system & a couple of instas and you are set. You can trade those small margins indefinately. Not profitable without the skills, but train up well, prepare well, research well and you will make lots of isk. I'm going off-topic here (sorry), but do the skills really make that much difference? iirc, the only two skills to affect ISK are Accounting and Broker Relations? Accounting reduces transaction tax by approx. 0.05% per level (I think) - does that extra few percent make that much of a difference? --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.07.13 01:34:00 - [153] Think about this scenario....... Super rich alliance/corp/whatever buys a Dread and a freightor. Freightor loads up on goodies. Dread opens jumpgate to target system outside selling station. Freightor and Dread jump through. Contemplate making runs......with only one jump. Or getting all of thier friends doing the same thing with thier indies. Because it will happen. Count on it. Nyxus
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.13 04:43:00 - [154] But can a Dread jump more than just itself? ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.13 07:07:00 - [155] Originally by: Vilserx Originally by: Avon There are many items where the maximum buy price is lower than the maximum sell price, and in high volumes. Sure you are only making a tiny margin, but with good trade skills it is still a profit. Couple that with supply and demand in the same system & a couple of instas and you are set. You can trade those small margins indefinately. Not profitable without the skills, but train up well, prepare well, research well and you will make lots of isk. I'm going off-topic here (sorry), but do the skills really make that much difference? iirc, the only two skills to affect ISK are Accounting and Broker Relations? Accounting reduces transaction tax by approx. 0.05% per level (I think) - does that extra few percent make that much of a difference? Well, for the runs I do they are almost a requirement. We are talking moderate values, low markup goods - because they actual trasnaction value is high the taxes are high, cutting deeply in to the profit margin. Imagine you have a trade run where you can buy 100mil worth of goods and sell for 102mil - all before taxes and broker fees. Most people couldn't make that run worth working, and so just ignore it. However, with good skills you can maximise the profit potential, and with a short run your isk/hr can be great. Without the skills you really need the high mark-up, low-ish volume runs, and there is where price fluctuations are most abundant. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.13 07:09:00 - [156] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi And there is something wrong with that? No, but that is the system which could make me 60mil isk per hour. Like you say, there is nothing wrong with it as it stands. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.13 09:03:00 - [157] Well I dont buy it, I dont know enough about trading to belive you and what I do know contradicts you. Second opinion would be nice. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa	Posted - 2005.07.13 12:25:00 - [158] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi And there is something wrong with that? No, but that is the system which could make me 60mil isk per hour. Like you say, there is nothing wrong with it as it stands. If this is true... then maybe Indies are overpowered too, 60 mil hour is insane. Nerf indies... devide cargo-space by 10 to start with....
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.13 12:47:00 - [159] Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi And there is something wrong with that? No, but that is the system which could make me 60mil isk per hour. Like you say, there is nothing wrong with it as it stands. If this is true... then maybe Indies are overpowered too, 60 mil hour is insane. Nerf indies... devide cargo-space by 10 to start with.... I think you misread it - 60mil per hour would be the earning potential of the 100,000m3 ship people are asking for. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.13 12:49:00 - [160] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Well I dont buy it, I dont know enough about trading to belive you and what I do know contradicts you. Second opinion would be nice. That is a classic. 'I don't know about this subject but you are wrong.' What do you base that conclusion on, fairy dust? ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.13 12:54:00 - [161] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Well I dont buy it, I dont know enough about trading to belive you and what I do know contradicts you. Second opinion would be nice. That is a classic. 'I don't know about this subject but you are wrong.' What do you base that conclusion on, fairy dust? I've figured out what Avon was talking about...and yes, it works. There is zero risk, you make loads of money and it doesn't take huge amount of SP to do it (although obviously, to maximise profit you'd want a bigger hauler). A 100,000m3 would break the system. (Can't believe I just agreed with Avon ) --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.13 15:54:00 - [162] Originally by: Vilserx I've figured out what Avon was talking about...and yes, it works. There is zero risk, you make loads of money and it doesn't take huge amount of SP to do it (although obviously, to maximise profit you'd want a bigger hauler). A 100,000m3 would break the system. (Can't believe I just agreed with Avon ) Hmmmm... I want a cut. If it wasn't for my posts you would have never noticed this way to make isk. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.13 16:01:00 - [163] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vilserx I've figured out what Avon was talking about...and yes, it works. There is zero risk, you make loads of money and it doesn't take huge amount of SP to do it (although obviously, to maximise profit you'd want a bigger hauler). A 100,000m3 would break the system. (Can't believe I just agreed with Avon ) Hmmmm... I want a cut. If it wasn't for my posts you would have never noticed this way to make isk. Well, I'm supporting your argument. There's your cut. --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.13 18:21:00 - [164] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Well I dont buy it, I dont know enough about trading to belive you and what I do know contradicts you. Second opinion would be nice. That is a classic. 'I don't know about this subject but you are wrong.' What do you base that conclusion on, fairy dust? No, I said what I do know says you are wrong, but I don't know enough to prove my info wrong. I've never been interested in Trade much, so I base my info on people that are. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.13 18:26:00 - [165] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Well I dont buy it, I dont know enough about trading to belive you and what I do know contradicts you. Second opinion would be nice. That is a classic. 'I don't know about this subject but you are wrong.' What do you base that conclusion on, fairy dust? No, I said what I do know says you are wrong, but I don't know enough to prove my info wrong. I've never been interested in Trade much, so I base my info on people that are. Well, what do you know about trade that contradicts the argument? Then people can see if it can be proved wrong. --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.13 21:01:00 - [166] Pretty much what other people are saying that you get diminishing returns as you buy out a resource and then sell it. It never seemed profitable on the large scale. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
flummox	Posted - 2005.07.13 21:04:00 - [167] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi And there is something wrong with that? No, but that is the system which could make me 60mil isk per hour. Like you say, there is nothing wrong with it as it stands. If this is true... then maybe Indies are overpowered too, 60 mil hour is insane. Nerf indies... devide cargo-space by 10 to start with.... I think you misread it - 60mil per hour would be the earning potential of the 100,000m3 ship people are asking for. i sure hope you aren't lumping me in that group of 'people'... 8) ... bring me my cheese...
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.07.13 21:20:00 - [168] all i can say is if volumes and total trade ISK in all NPC industrial and consumer goods goes up - then that has to eb a good thing as CCP will see more players engaging in the trading aspect of the game and perhaps improve - expand and enhance it
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.13 22:16:00 - [169] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Pretty much what other people are saying that you get diminishing returns as you buy out a resource and then sell it. It never seemed profitable on the large scale. Ah. Thing is, at 100000m3, you're unlikely to be able to 'crash' the market so much that the sell price (that you buy at) is higher than the buy price (that you sell at). Assuming the 'start' profit margin per 1m3 item is 30isk, even at 10isk that's the 1m profit that's being thrown about here. Especially with low-volume, high quantity items, the NPC prices are unlikely to fluctuate enough. That said, I haven't actually ever bought 100000 items of the same commidity in the same station so I'm not 100% sure if what I have said above is true. --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.13 22:59:00 - [170] So its as much speculation on that end as it is ours. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Brazero	Posted - 2005.07.13 23:55:00 - [171] Edited by: Brazero on 13/07/2005 23:58:42 Originally by: Joram McRory To my simple mind the obvious answer is the transport ship class. There are two types for each race: One a nifty blockade runner (I must get one of those); and the other a sort of slightly bigger, much slower, tanked sort of a ship with no specific role. Keep the blokade runner as it is and give the other one 100,000 m3 cargo space. To balance it out make it need transport ship lvl 4 or something??? What do you think? I agree, I bought an Impel and sold it after 2 days. Totally useless as an industrial ship. And far too expencive for a t2 showoff sitting in the hangar. Double or even triple the base cargo space and it can be of interest.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.14 07:45:00 - [172] Originally by: Brazero I agree, I bought an Impel and sold it after 2 days. Totally useless as an industrial ship. And far too expencive for a t2 showoff sitting in the hangar. Double or even triple the base cargo space and it can be of interest. I think you missed the point of that ship class entirely. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Helmut 314	Posted - 2005.07.14 09:23:00 - [173] Transport ships are excellent for their niches : Blockade running, 0.0 belt pickups and transporting and of course high value empire transporting. ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.14 11:59:00 - [174] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi So its as much speculation on that end as it is ours. Feel free to try and prove me wrong by buying up 100000m3 worth of goods and seeing if the market ever fluctuates that much. --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
Viggen	Posted - 2005.07.14 16:19:00 - [175] I think the amount of interest this post has produced suggests that a Dev response is overdue here.. lets hear there views. My views.. well I rekcon now the highways are dead transporting stuff around is a nightmare.. im no trader but if i needed to move home to another region it can take forever to haul all the bits and pieces you have stored in your hanger. A larger indy would be cool.
Embattle	Posted - 2005.07.16 10:56:00 - [176] Haven't read whole thread but they could give a boost to Transport ships so they can carry up to 50000m3....sorry if someone has already said it.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.07.16 11:07:00 - [177] well just to try it i built up 100k m3 of synthetic oil in gallente space. After u dump the first few orders at least for this good the price reaches the highest sellers lowest buyers point of around 292.00 ISK - profit margin drops to 0.05ISK per good. Though i did notice if u keep plumping it the mark then drops lower to 288.00 ISK buy / sell point with 0.05 in between. So dunno maybe with enough volumes u could push prices around quite a bit more. Its an area o the game where it has been neglected static volumes at specific stations as well as defined price ranges. No events or news items where supply is limited at a certain station and the first 100,000 m3 of goods delivered by all players will double youre income. That could be a randome thing to encourage more movement of goods aswell as profit hunters
Joram McRory	Posted - 2005.07.16 11:08:00 - [178] Originally by: Helmut 314 Transport ships are excellent for their niches : Blockade running, 0.0 belt pickups and transporting and of course high value empire transporting. The point I was making is that you don't need 2 ships per race for this. The blockade runner one is excellent in these roles, but the other one is wasted. So as, from the length of this thread, there is demand for a bigger indy. Use the other transport to fill this niche with 50K to 100K of cargo space.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.16 12:52:00 - [179] You are judging the need of a ship based on the length of a forum thread? ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.16 14:52:00 - [180] Originally by: Avon You are judging the need of a ship based on the length of a forum thread? The length of the thread being mostly made up of people wanting them...I would say yes. One small issue with trade that sofar is only speculation, is no reason to keep them out. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here

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