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Douglas Rafferty
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Posted - 2005.07.12 03:40:00 -
[1]
I was out testing my torps with the new skills somewhat trained and like everyone else noticed the poor damage as ships decrease in size. I then put on some target painters and low and behold they had absolutely no effect on damage for torps, on everything else they helped. Has ccp pulled a secret nerf here making target painters useless for torps specifically and if so is the mwd penalty also nerfed out of existance for torps making these absolutely useless in the game. If ccp didn't want us to use torps why didn't they just pull them from the game instead of crippling them to the point of uselessness.?
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Jim Sharpe
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Posted - 2005.07.12 03:45:00 -
[2]
I noticed the same thing, Target Painters have no effect.
I also noticed that even when I webbed a frigate and reduced it's speed to 6m/s and hit it with a torpedo... 30 damage... what's up with that? A torpedo at point blank range against a stationary target, no real effect.
It is like hitting a mosquito with a repeatedly with a hammer and having no effect.
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Ashelth
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Posted - 2005.07.12 04:00:00 -
[3]
There are 2 parts to the missile damage equation...
1) target signature radius/missile explosion radius
2) target speed/explosion velocity
1 is WAY more important than 2 when determining the damage reduction.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.07.12 04:41:00 -
[4]
...and torpedos (and rockets) can't take advantage of the skill that mitigates the sig radius penalty to some extent: Guided Missile Precision.
(Note: Target Navigation Prediction is the skill that reduces the velocity penalty.)
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.12 07:26:00 -
[5]
This was my experience too. I could likve with Torps not hitting frigs and cruisers as long as they still did high damage to BS's (and high damage to structures would have been nice too).
However, I was hitting NPC BS for less than 200 damage on their hull (so not a resistance issue). I also see that target painters don't affect torps...but do give a 25% bonus to large turret hits...
That was, until yesterday where I ganged with a corpmate and we did a level 4 together. All of a sudden my torps are hitting the NPC BS's hull for 670 damage. Target Painters still weren't affecting it though.
Have CCP put in another stealth nerf...one where you do MASSIVELY less damage if you are not in a gang?
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Kremnican
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Posted - 2005.07.12 09:00:00 -
[6]
Well I did test the standards on friends frig and the Painter works. Two painters do work too, but it's not double of course (no painter = 50 damage, 1 painter = 64, 2 painters = 74).
We did also a mission and the painters seem to work. Can't say I'm totally sure since the battle needs more concentration then before, but I think it works.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.12 10:09:00 -
[7]
Painters work, just NOT on Torps, and possibly more specifically NOT on Torps fired at BS's.
Just curious...what's your target painting and signature focussing skill levels?
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Douglas Rafferty
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Posted - 2005.07.14 00:29:00 -
[8]
OK guys . No effect of sig radius changes on torp damage. Raven is really a lame duck now! In pvp I have found it even easier to kill missile ships post patch and smile when i see them now. I am 10x safer in a Dominix now than I am in a Raven. Thanks TomB for your "balancing act" ROFLMAO
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Kyle Chimko
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Posted - 2005.07.14 01:38:00 -
[9]
i beleive they may have gone a little overboard on this but i have noticed that using drones to kill the smaller things and concentrating fire on bs's help alot
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Kashre
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Posted - 2005.07.14 01:50:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Kyle Chimko
i beleive they may have gone a little overboard on this but i have noticed that using drones to kill the smaller things and concentrating fire on bs's help alot
I dont think its all that bad, tbh.. BUT... there are a couple of things I think they really need to do in order to bring missiles into balance with turrets.
1> Missiles now have 2 stats that effect their damage just like guns: sig and velocity compared to sig and tracking. *but* a turret ship can mitigate the tracking issues by reducing transversal velocity and increasing range. There is no way to manuver to reduce the speed issues with missiles. I think that the damage done should be based on a relative speed. Hit a frig moving away from you at 1000m/s with a missile, reduced damage... hit a frig moving 1000m/s head on, a pretty serious increase in damage.
2> turret ships get tracking computers and tracking enhancers and target painters. Missiles get... target painters. Bah! We need mid and low slot missile tracking links that decrease the sig modifiers of missiles with roughly the same efectiveness as tracking computers.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Santiac
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Posted - 2005.07.14 02:14:00 -
[11]
In my opinion, the missile users at least deserve the type of modules that boost the attributes of their weapons, just like turret uesrs. mainly talking about tracking enhancer/comps, that allowes turret users to hit more/do more. I really could not see any harm or inbalance by giving them some "wire-guidance system" mod that give passive/active beneficial bonuses for the missile attributes used to calculate damage done per hit of a missile. If you are against the "identical weapon classes", it could be an idea giving them a hi-slot mod that increases even more, but sacrifices a hi-slot. This would of course be the same type of beneficial mod, but it would not have the same "flavour" as tracking enhancer/comps.
Just a bunch of ideas not yet thought completely through.. 't is late ;o
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<insert clever/witty comment here>
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BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:32:00 -
[12]
Turn missiles into Beam Riders. This would require some sort of tracking system on the ship... A beam rider, in the hands of a skills operator, is a very deadly thing to see
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:30:00 -
[13]
Yay! The groundswell behind our missing medium slots gathers pace...I've petitioned this in game.
Don't forget that of the 75 hardwired implants in game, 32 of them give a bonus to gunnery in one form or another...that's 42.67% of those implants! There are implants for gunnery available in ALL slots from 6 through 10, meaning you could fit five gunnery improving implants.
There are precisely ZERO missile implants.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Anjerrai Meloanis
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:05:00 -
[14]
quit whining you cant insta frag smaller targets anymore..
most people with gunnery skills have them to lvl 5, im currently training the new missile skills to lvl 5 and if they still suck then i have cause to complain. until then, stfu..
im sure theyre planning on adding these new mods/implants for missiles, a week into the new patch and youre complaining for more already lol...
why do people always have to compare missiles to guns? theyre different weapons for christ sake, sure you may be able to hit frigs at 100km with guns and probably pop them, but at 500m you have little to no chance at all to do ANY damage. Missiles are NOT guns, if you dont want to use a different weapon and look at its advantages/disadvantages and just complain it cant do what another weapon does dont bother..
*sigh
uh.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:32:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Loka on 14/07/2005 11:33:05
Edited by: Loka on 14/07/2005 11:32:01
For all the whiners, that their Raven isnt ueber anymore, pls read this
For the lazy ones, just a few quotes:
Originally by: Darkwolf
Edited by: Darkwolf on 04/05/2004 15:34:56
Terrible.
Couldn't hit a webbed frigate at 45km with a 1400mm, didn't even scratch him after about 50 rounds at that range.
btw, the point really needs to be made - frigates are ALREADY hard to hit at short range with big guns... It's just the wrecking shots that stuff them up, and hey presto, they're gone!
Update: Was BARELY able to kill those same frigates using seven medium-sized neutron blasters and a webifier. Took a LOT of ammo to do so, even when used at optimal range while stationary.
Originally by: Majin Buu
i tested the new rats with my apoc fitted with 6 megabeams. The small elite frigs i couldnt hit, no matter how fast they were going or how far away they were, The cruisers were *alittle* better but not much. Fitting was also 6 megabeams with gamma crystals giving me 31km optimal, The targets range went from 40km to 5km (heading straight for me) and i only hit it once or twice, even when the cruiser was only traveling at 193m/s.
I eventually killed everything with wasp II's 
Originally by: PirateShampoo
Ok,
I was 35 km out from an abandoned Scorpion. I locked and fired my 5 1400's with phased plasma and couldnt hit the damn thing. Keep in mind that 35 km is just outside of optimal. Also, it wasnt moving. What is going on? If you nerf the tempest im outta here. Why not fix everything else that is wrong with the game?
Yeah keep it up devs. theres plenty of other things that dont need fixing to screw with.
Read, this was against BS!!!
So pls, stfu with all your whines. Your Raven is still less nerfed, than any other turret ship in game.
Yes you dont have atm any modules, for improving your hits. But dont forget you will do at least some dmg, while turrets will miss each shot!!! And iam sure such modules will be introduced soon.
Raven was ahead any other BS before, now its brought inline. Imo Ravens against BS were boosted. Raven against smaller ships just nerfed.
till now my single chance to kill a tanked torp spamming Raven, was the distance his torps would need to reach me. But with 8km/s iam not standing any chance any more. Raven is hitting me with the firepower of a blasterthron at any distance almost instantly.
And btw i fly Ravens too
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Dead or Alive
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Bracius
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:42:00 -
[16]
this topics are funny...
i fly raven with cruises and i can pop friggies in a volley or 2 in ranges of 0 - 144km (yay sensor booster on raven). And i have cruise missiles lvl2 and missile skills too.
With megathron i have gunnery skills at lvl4 and large hybrids lvl5 and i still miss frigs at 70km. Not to mention that at 50km+ i do ****ty dmg if i want to have any tank.
If you plan to kill bs, fit torps and tank and nothing can stop you. If you want to pwn from range cruises 4tw. And i almost forgot, i hit stabber at 500m when he is orbiting me with ab for like 1/2 dmg. If i see one in sniperthron at 30km i can only hope that he is stupid or that i maybe get time to warp out...
now cry me a river. Yes missiles are too good.
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2005.07.14 13:35:00 -
[17]
In some way the changes to missles are good. But i personaly thing they could have used amouther formula.
I agree I torp hitting a target going 6m/s should be obliterated. All this sig radois stuff is kinda wack for missles.
Sorry about the winning I don't usually do this. I just like relizm and this is not realistic.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.07.14 13:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bracius
this topics are funny...
i fly raven with cruises and i can pop friggies in a volley or 2 in ranges of 0 - 144km (yay sensor booster on raven). And i have cruise missiles lvl2 and missile skills too.
With megathron i have gunnery skills at lvl4 and large hybrids lvl5 and i still miss frigs at 70km. Not to mention that at 50km+ i do ****ty dmg if i want to have any tank.
If you plan to kill bs, fit torps and tank and nothing can stop you. If you want to pwn from range cruises 4tw. And i almost forgot, i hit stabber at 500m when he is orbiting me with ab for like 1/2 dmg. If i see one in sniperthron at 30km i can only hope that he is stupid or that i maybe get time to warp out...
now cry me a river. Yes missiles are too good.
nah, forget it. I use to think the same thing.. there are some frigs out there that you cannot hit for above 30dmg or so, I don't care if you web or paint them, i don't care if they're using an MWD at a dead stop, it's just not possible.
and why do some of you ave to be such asses? what's so bad about your life that maeks you turn into hostile punks on these forums? does your father beat you nightly? physically abusive wife? i don't get it.. ive never in my life seen so many unhappy, mean, angry people in a single place.
maybe it's the age thing.. bunch of middle aged men going through mid-life crisis, on these forums to boost their self esteem.. "Hey, I can tough it out with teh youngins on the board! look at me go! i'm calling him a whiner"
no clue.. but shut the hell up if you wouldn't mind, please?
thanks
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I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Jet Collins
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Posted - 2005.07.14 13:46:00 -
[19]
I said Sorry 
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Douglas Rafferty
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Posted - 2005.07.16 02:21:00 -
[20]
Lets not forget that long ago in a galaxy far away missile users' defenses were nerfed(making shield tank much less effect than armor tanking). Add this to the MAJOR loss of offensive punch and missiles boats really are weaklings out there.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.07.16 03:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Loka
For all the whiners, that their Raven isnt ueber anymore, pls read this
For the lazy ones, just a few quotes:
What you quoted me on there was testing done a year ago, on Chaos. Before they went and tweaked the turret damage formula again.
Try and find something from Tranquility, in the state it is NOW, instead of pulling out ancient quotes about the test server.
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Vaaliant
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Posted - 2005.07.16 03:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Darkwolf
Originally by: Loka
For all the whiners, that their Raven isnt ueber anymore, pls read this
For the lazy ones, just a few quotes:
What you quoted me on there was testing done a year ago, on Chaos. Before they went and tweaked the turret damage formula again.
Try and find something from Tranquility, in the state it is NOW, instead of pulling out ancient quotes about the test server.
More so than that, those are threads I believe from CASTOR , not even post-Exodus. So in otherwords not only is it old but the coding is so different over the 2 content patches so as to represent a whole different situation from where those people were posting their arguments (hell back then I believe missiles still were produced in batches of 10).
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Bleakheart
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Posted - 2005.07.16 05:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Bleakheart on 16/07/2005 05:39:02
And if the thread ID number wasn't enough to clue you in then check the date and time stamp of the first post Posted - 2004.05.04 11:25:00
ROFL!
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Douglas Rafferty
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Posted - 2005.07.21 04:55:00 -
[24]
Ravens were balanced before the nerf and were slowly being pushed out of pvp as big gun setups became more potent. Loka you haven't a clue dude, and the past few times i've seen you flying a bs it wasn't a raven now was it....
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Avatar Ashlee
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Posted - 2005.07.21 05:13:00 -
[25]
I fly caldari ships pretty exclusivly (aside from my crusader, which i love). First off- train up the skills and DROP THE TORPS in favor of cruise. They do a heck of a lot better dmg, and are more virsitle. They do great dmg to BS and cruisers, even decent dmg vs frigs.
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