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Horb
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:57:00 -
[1]
Has anyone actually tested a dread in siege mode vs. a decently defended POS? There are a lot of people in other forums saying "just wait until we get dreads and we're gonna blow up your POS." Are the dreads (and most likely just a single dread at first) really going to be that much of a death sentence? If I was a betting man I'd probably put my money on the POS. But I don't bet because I usually lose. 
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SaorAlba
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:11:00 -
[2]
A dreadnaught in posistion will mean the end of your POS. It was designed for this job regardless what you think or hope. Only allainces will be capable of defending their POSSES in the end. Freelancers will be shot out the systems asap the first dreadnaught has been build and the allaince has a capable pilot
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Cyric EagleEye
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:48:00 -
[3]
Yeah. Until the next patch-nerf on dreads or pos boost, we will have such problem unfortunately.
And there are quite few rats out there who just want screw your game.
Just let them triple the T2 prices and laugh. 
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.12 23:18:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: SaorAlba
A dreadnaught in posistion will mean the end of your POS. It was designed for this job regardless what you think or hope. Only allainces will be capable of defending their POSSES in the end. Freelancers will be shot out the systems asap the first dreadnaught has been build and the allaince has a capable pilot
Why? A dread in siege mode can be killed pathetically easily.
Seriously.
Covops + blasterthron = dead dreadnought.
Dreads will need fleet backup to work. Also, strontium clathrates = dread gets bored, leaves.
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.07.12 23:36:00 -
[5]
Exactly...
Not to mention that the siege module is basically a self-imposed warp scrambling, because you can't move at all while it's active and it's got a VERY long cycle time.
A Dread with a fleet to defend it will be able to take down a POS, but that's a lot of time, work, and resources to take just ONE tower down. You're going to have to REALLY want it dead.
Furthermore, I know a lot of tower owners have weeks worth of Strontium out at their towers, and the fuel to match. If they have to log in an alt every so often to shovel a few days of fuel and a load of clathrates into the fuel tank, they will, and the tower will never go down.
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." |
Daddy's Princess
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Posted - 2005.07.13 02:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ticondrius
Exactly...
Furthermore, I know a lot of tower owners have weeks worth of Strontium out at their towers, and the fuel to match. If they have to log in an alt every so often to shovel a few days of fuel and a load of clathrates into the fuel tank, they will, and the tower will never go down.
Yes, 2 full corp hangars in fact. good luck
oh, let's not forget sheild hardners and jammers. I honestly can't see a single dread as a threat and no one hates me enough (yet) to bring a fleet.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.07.13 04:55:00 -
[7]
POS are outrageously overpowered at the moment. Their price is pathetic compared to their utility, that is if any price could be high enough for that kind of defense.
Dreads ain't no solution.
__________________________
Finite Horizon
Your end is our beginning.
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Cannedbeef
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Posted - 2005.07.13 06:13:00 -
[8]
outrageously overpowered?
a Large Tower will cost you 300mil up front and ~80mil/week.. and its overpowered because it defends a strategically useless location that noone ever has to visit?
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.07.13 07:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cannedbeef
outrageously overpowered?
a Large Tower will cost you 300mil up front and ~80mil/week.. and its overpowered because it defends a strategically useless location that noone ever has to visit?
A dread will cost you ~3 billion or more. POS's are capable of defending themselves to a great extent without the need for defensive fleets.
While a POS's defenses can rarely used for anything else but defending, it serves a different kind of strategical purpose as a base for operations (storing equipment, changing fittings, protecting whilst in system, offering refining etc.). It is a great tool for extended operations near or within enemy territory.
I agree that POS's have an economic purpose of keeping the Tech 2 items and production affordable. However I do think that POS's defenses are slightly unbalanced when you compare it with the effort, investment and co-ordination to bring one down.
And yes, I do run a POS of my own.
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2005.07.13 07:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Horb
Has anyone actually tested a dread in siege mode vs. a decently defended POS? There are a lot of people in other forums saying "just wait until we get dreads and we're gonna blow up your POS." Are the dreads (and most likely just a single dread at first) really going to be that much of a death sentence? If I was a betting man I'd probably put my money on the POS. But I don't bet because I usually lose.
On a more practical side, I don't think anyone has the skills to fly one yet - Advanced Spaceship Command 5 = ~ 2 weeks, and you want a lot of the support skills trained too. Not to mention the trouble of actually building one. Wait 2 months and the first dreads might be starting to show up. |
Aramoro
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:39:00 -
[11]
The thing with dreadnought is same problem as fleets have just now. With a few large guns if the Dread comes within 250km and someone is at the POS to manually target it then it's going to die. Whats more it's going to die before it can get into seige mode.
The only way it's going to work is if the dread can happily sit out at 250km and hit the pos taking no return fire. If that where the case then POS's would need some sort of Sensor Boosting module to increase their targerting range.
Aramoro
[S]tateCorp - "We are the Presscorp" |
Clipped Wings
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Posted - 2005.07.13 11:09:00 -
[12]
Disclaimer: This is conjecture and assumptions from my side, I do not have any concrete evidence. But bear with me and listen:
A medium POS can, at current time online, and maintain 1-2 large turrets, 3-6 medium turrets, and maybe even a small turret or 2. True, it won't have much in the ways of utility, and as such be a military installation only. But it can be done, and it acn still be fitted with a couple of corporate hanger arrays, for in space refitting.
Against that kind of defence, I have a very nasty feeling that a Dread, siege mode or not, will simply not be able to tank it. At all. Unless you fill up the dread with adaptive nano membranes and 1-2 citadel armor repairers (assuming you're armor tanking), I don't believe that the repairers will keep up in the long run, much less be able to tank it in burst damage. As all guns will fire roughly at the same time, depending on state of aggression, I'd say that above defensive installation would be able to more or less one-volley pretty much anything. I doubt anyone will really want to have to claw back to armor, by beign sent into structure by the first volley.
The current damage output, and in particular, range of POS'es are something that seems way over the top.
A large POS? A large, defended, POS?
Let's assume we take a large POS, kit it with a moon mining array, and a few other practical things, and then kit defensive modules for the rest of it. What, 8 large turrets or so? I don't think any ship in the game can tank that. At all. So, solution would be to warp in 10+ dreadnaughts and haev them enter siege mode, calculating that at least one of them would die initially?
Not forgetting that a small POS apparantly now have a lockrange of 250K, so even small/medium turrets (how come you can fit oversized turrets for POS'es, btw?) will still be able to hit out at that range, with the right ammo. And their damage mod means that...well, it won't matter much.
What's the approximate cost for a large POS + modules? Honest question, I don't have the figures, but I'd wager a guess and say that you can get all things you'd need for under a billion. That installation will be able to annihilate a dread that tried to go into siege mode inside range. Also, I'd wager a guess and say that even a dread, in siege mode, will be hard pressed to hit consistantly at 260K...not to mention its vulnerability.
It just seems the isk needed to take down a POS, versus what it costs to set up a POS, is not at all balanced.
Constructive critic is welcome, as I stated, there are very few things here I have evidence for. It's just one of those gut feeling things...
Cheers.
-Clipped Wings of LFC
"I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man."
~William Hazlitt
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Jolan Kalduli
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Posted - 2005.07.13 11:25:00 -
[13]
It doesn't really answer your question but you don't need to actually destroy a POS to kill it. A determined corp can cut transports to it with minimal isk investment.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.07.13 12:30:00 -
[14]
Ummm I dont think a solo dread will be in any fleet. These Alliances will have three Dreads in a fleet. They will have support ships the cruiser tech II type. They will have 10 BS 20 frigates nad crusiers.
I dont think the 0.1-0.3 POS will be in any danger tho. I think the 0.0 POS will be the final destination. I believe the 0.0 POS is the cause of a galatic battle nothing in Eve has ever seen.
Here is my battle: A fleet of 30 comes to your neighborhood in 0.0. 3-4 dreads pop in for the fun. Nothing will stop them unless there is a matching fleet. This never happens in Eve.
--------------------------
I am on alot of kill boards but the wrong column. I give the killmails to our enemys |
Wired
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Posted - 2005.07.13 12:34:00 -
[15]
1 frig = dead dread, heres why.
Dread parks up at range (bout 250km), and starts shooting POS, single frig (something small with mwd, overdrives and a sensor dampner) locks dread orbits rediculously close using dampner. The dread now has to move 125km at bout 90m/s, who is gonna do that.
O.K, that aint really gonna work exactly like that as a dread wont be alone, but a single ship using damps on the dread will give it a headache.
or...
Player sees cyno field appear on overview, it takes a few minutes for a dread to lock on and jump and theres also the fact that even with uber skills a dread cant jump from one side of eve to the other, so you should be able to trace the path of the "field" ship, warp to the ship pop it, dread is stuck.
Someone's prob going to flame me, but OP asked if dread was a death sentence, i've just pointed out here a couple of ways that Mr Dread can be overcome with a bit of thought around game mechanics.
=============================================
If you cant have sex with the monkey
Make friends with the organ grinder.... |
THCS
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Posted - 2005.07.13 12:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wired
1 frig = dead dread, heres why.
Dread parks up at range (bout 250km), and starts shooting POS, single frig (something small with mwd, overdrives and a sensor dampner) locks dread orbits rediculously close using dampner. The dread now has to move 125km at bout 90m/s, who is gonna do that.
O.K, that aint really gonna work exactly like that as a dread wont be alone, but a single ship using damps on the dread will give it a headache.
or...
Player sees cyno field appear on overview, it takes a few minutes for a dread to lock on and jump and theres also the fact that even with uber skills a dread cant jump from one side of eve to the other, so you should be able to trace the path of the "field" ship, warp to the ship pop it, dread is stuck.
Someone's prob going to flame me, but OP asked if dread was a death sentence, i've just pointed out here a couple of ways that Mr Dread can be overcome with a bit of thought around game mechanics.
If I am not mistake the Seige Module prevents ECM modules warpscramblers or webbers effecting the dread when in seige mode. Not sure but you were not able to jam dreads on Test while in seige mode.
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Solacia
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Posted - 2005.07.13 13:18:00 -
[17]
To be honest it SHOULD be extremely costly and risky to try and take down a POS compared to defending it.
Why??
Well consider the effort players put into setting up and running one. A POS isn't somthing you just setup and then it makes isk for you, it takes time and effort to get the benefits from it.
Taking down a POS should be costly simply to make corps consider how worthwhile it is to try instead of them being able to go on a POS ganking spree. Corps and alliances that REALLY want to get rid of a POS badly will suck up the cost in losses in order to get the job done while it discourages them from blowing one up for the fun of it.
Well, thats my own thoughts on it anyway.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.07.13 16:27:00 -
[18]
Dreads will force POS owners to be part of a collective fighting force.
Tech II needs POS.
POS need Sovereignty.
Sovereignty needs an Alliance.
Alliance needs Dreads, POS, Tech II.....
The circle of Eve!
Welcome to the pain of our journey!
Note: If you own a POS and you want to be safe and cuddly be a part of an collective fighting force. There are many groups out there looking for all part of the circle!
--------------------------
I am on alot of kill boards but the wrong column. I give the killmails to our enemys |
Ardor
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Posted - 2005.07.13 17:30:00 -
[19]
I am coming from a game called Mankind. In this game you had your own solarsystems with space and planet defences. The game was running non-stop and people could attack you 24/24 seven days a week. The majority of the attacks were launched when the enemie(s) was/were offline. Different time zones were not (always) the reason.
In Eve we now get something similar with Dreads and POS.
I hope the balance Dreads vs POS will be that an offline attack != win.
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SaorAlba
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:32:00 -
[20]
I dread will never come alone, lol. When a dread is being send out to eliminate a POS it will come with a plan. It will come with highly skilled pilots supported by the allaince. The destruction of a single POS dropped in allaince space without permittion can only be done by a highly organized group of players. -G- allready removed several poorly constucted small and medium POSes within their space. Others have removed their POS on our requist. The proper tool has arrived and (skill) time is running out for the remaining persistent owners
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Gafton
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:29:00 -
[21]
Does anyone know the time required to go into siege mode?
Is it the same time to come out of siege mode?
What range does a dread in siege have?
Any support ships that warp to the pos will be targeted when the pos cycles. I'm also unsure if a dread can tank a large pos setup correctly. If it can survive for 30 seconds it'l be fine, but if it cant, the attacking force is losing a lot.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:45:00 -
[22]
While i have not been able to find the information anywhere to confirm the exact bonuses that the siege module gives a dreadnaught, on the test server the bonuses included 2x HP repaired by armor repaires/shield boosters, and 0.5x cycle time on repairers/boosters.
given that, a armor tanked dread (besides having around 28000 armor hitpoints) can repair atleast 19200 hp ever 15 secs.
On the same token, a shield tanked dread could boost, 12800 shields every 5 seconds without a boost amplifer. With the boost amp it becomes 16640 shields(one 30% boost amplifer).
I think a dread could survive if it was not focus fired on by the POS (ie - did not have a member of the POS corp nearby that could change settings to make the POS only attack the dread).
If anyone has built a siege module from the blueprint (not the capitol siege module component but the "siege module I") and could confirm or deny any of the guesses as to what the bonuses are would be a great help.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.07.13 22:29:00 -
[23]
Edited by: SengH on 13/07/2005 22:29:44
If you guys havent noticed... not all dreads are good at taking POSes. The way CCP designed them was perfect tbh. Each one has their specialized role.
Gallente Dread -> wtfpwnage in fleet combat suxs at taking down POSes though. Blasters + drones will turn the tide of any fleet battle.
Caldari Dread -> will WTFpwn any other dread out there and decent at taking out POSes suxs vs small ships though
Minmatar Dread -> will WTFpwn any POS out there as it can stay out of range and change dmg types to get around the resists decent vs other dreads and it'll suck vs anything smaller.
Amarr Dread-> a compromise between everything. Not the best but not the worst either.
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Ride Nunc
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Posted - 2005.07.14 04:11:00 -
[24]
A little math:
1 large tower.
4 large pulse lasers
4 XL Gamma Crystals
1 POS Tracking Array
= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid
Sum: Dead Dread in about 22.5 seconds
Add more guns, Citadel Launcher, EW for support ships..
You get the picture.
// please note my figures may be off a bit.. if they are ADD MORE GUNS |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.14 04:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/07/2005 04:29:46
Originally by: Ride Nunc
A little math:
1 large tower.
4 large pulse lasers
4 XL Gamma Crystals
1 POS Tracking Array
= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid
Sum: Dead Dread in about 22.5 seconds
Add more guns, Citadel Launcher, EW for support ships..
You get the picture.
// please note my figures may be off a bit.. if they are ADD MORE GUNS
The pulses won't hit if the dread is out of range. Tracking arrays only do 10% now.
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
chossuh
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Posted - 2005.07.14 07:00:00 -
[26]
Has anyone tested on TQ yet how far the guns actually activate and reach?
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.14 07:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 14/07/2005 07:19:33
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/07/2005 04:29:46
Originally by: Ride Nunc
A little math:
1 large tower.
4 large pulse lasers
4 XL Gamma Crystals
1 POS Tracking Array
= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid
Sum: Dead Dread in about 22.5 seconds
Add more guns, Citadel Launcher, EW for support ships..
You get the picture.
// please note my figures may be off a bit.. if they are ADD MORE GUNS
The pulses won't hit if the dread is out of range. Tracking arrays only do 10% now.
Personally I always thought they did 10%  the target painter strength skill always gave 5% effect but its attribute page initially showed 500% for instance.
Lack of a decimal point in the format used perhaps 
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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SaorAlba
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Posted - 2005.07.14 08:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ride Nunc
A little math:
1 large tower.
4 large pulse lasers
4 XL Gamma Crystals
1 POS Tracking Array
= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid
Sum: Dead Dread in about 22.5 seconds
Add more guns, Citadel Launcher, EW for support ships..
You get the picture.
// please note my figures may be off a bit.. if they are ADD MORE GUNS
I can understand you POS owners hope for the best. I am not suggesting it will be a walk over for the dread. However the dread is designed to be able to do it. Even in the case it can't, it will turn out to be due to a design fault. In that case CCP will fix this.
To think a large POS will smoke a dread under 30 sec is just wishfull thinking
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2005.07.14 09:08:00 -
[29]
to think a lone dread will wtf pwn a large pos properly setup is also a mistake. CCP has said that the advantage will always be to the pos, and that it will take some serious power to assualt it.
I'm not worried. A good defensive setup and proper supplies stored the pos will take a hell of a pounding and dish it out too.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:22:00 -
[30]
umm, did anyone even bother to calculate how many days 1-2 dreads must be shooting at a large POS to take it down?
I saw some calculations on their DPS, and even in siege mode, I'd say it takes more than 10 hours straight shooting at a med tower to get it down after reinforced.
but I'm just guessing, anyone with real numbers?
Originally by: Oveur
I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
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Beatlebug
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Posted - 2005.07.14 19:19:00 -
[31]
Don't POS turrets have locking cycles, and couldn't about 5-6 frigates with MWD take all the shots while the dread kills the shields? After all has anyone considered the tracking speed of .002707 rad/sec for a large turret. yes it can shoot at 300+k but can it hit... with a bunch of frigates taking the shots at max range, the dread will be mostly free to pound the POS. 
Just some thoughts.
BB
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Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Beatlebug
Don't POS turrets have locking cycles, and couldn't about 5-6 frigates with MWD take all the shots while the dread kills the shields? After all has anyone considered the tracking speed of .002707 rad/sec for a large turret. yes it can shoot at 300+k but can it hit... with a bunch of frigates taking the shots at max range, the dread will be mostly free to pound the POS.
Just some thoughts.
BB
If manually controlled the POS never has to fire a shot at anything other than the dread...
Away form the pos 18h out of the day... keep a couple of days worth of clathrates in the tower at all times make them come back 2 days from now and start over.
Even with Dreads you will still have to seige a large POS, and a large well set up pos with people to help defend it will mean that the attacking fleet is going to take some heavy losses.
Zandramus
Homeless And Clueless
S.A.S
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2005.07.14 22:12:00 -
[33]
really a POS has nothing to fear from a dread, so long as it has fuel and cathrades, the only way to take down a pos for sure, is to im pose a blockade on the system with the POS and have a support fleet for the dread, you put it in to reenforced mode wait the few days, soon it runs out of fuel and the dread + support fleet makes short work of your POS. Thats the best way to take out a POS IMHO but it takes tons of man power and everything else, I say use the dread to make sure you take out the POS before DT :-)
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WHeisenberg
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Posted - 2005.07.15 01:07:00 -
[34]
Interesting news about the tracking array changes.
Though in all honesty, even with the insane amounts of range increases, they still made sense.
Medium lasters with gamma crystals would take care of snipers and deal some serious damage to boot.
And, since it did make sense that those numbers might have a meaning (maybe CCP giving the POS owners a bit of a math quiz to figure out 'why' the numbers were so high to begin with) many POS owners devoted a lot of resources, in both isk and time, into setting up stations with those beauties.
We figured, there will be plenty of POS's without them.. and those with them might stand a better chance of being 'passed by' when considering which POS to blow up next comes along.
Now that's been hosed. Thank's alot CCP. We truly appreciate all you HAVENT done for us in the POS world :)
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gfldex
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Posted - 2005.07.15 11:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ride Nunc
= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid
A large tower has a max lock range of 350km. That's 100km less the the grid. Dread guns have a optirange of 80km without skills, mods and tracking links. Add 2 Scorps with tracking links to each dread and your POS is *beep*ed.
--
$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:33:00 -
[36]
Maybe assign some guy in a logistics ship to each dread? With the amount of stuff they could have working on the dread, even if the dread is within the firing range of the station, the logistics ship could easily stand further back while boosting, repairing, or otherwise helping out the dread.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Aleis
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Posted - 2005.07.15 21:26:00 -
[37]
Yeah as it stands Dread == Teh Win button against stations, as they can esialy stay outside teh range of a starbase with minimal help once you add skills, mods, and ammo types.
And for people saying a lone dread won't do it. Did you even read the patch notes about how jump drives work? Your nullRequiredto have help.
Well just my thoughts anyway
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.16 04:42:00 -
[38]
Alright alright. I was thinking about strategy, and I came up with what I think is probably the most feasable way to get a dread into position vs. a really, -really- strong station.
Or at least, this is what I would do.
Take a raven with all med-slots filled with invul hardeners, and all lo-slots filled with CPRs. Warp it to the offending moonbase. Then follow it into warp about 4 seconds later with 4-8 logistics ships to boost it while it absorbs damage (yes. If there is someone to command the station to aim, I get it, this will fail.).
Once the logistics folks take off, wait an additional 4 seconds then warp in your dread, go into siege mode, and pwn the thing while removing the raven. Or apoc. Or whatever you choose to use.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.16 05:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Ride Nunc
= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid
A large tower has a max lock range of 350km. That's 100km less the the grid. Dread guns have a optirange of 80km without skills, mods and tracking links. Add 2 Scorps with tracking links to each dread and your POS is *beep*ed.
Siege mode disables all remote assistance - so no remote sensor boosters or remote tracking links for dreads.
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Saerid
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Posted - 2005.07.16 09:24:00 -
[40]
I'd say much less of an issue than it's made out to be for the regular large POS. One thing that immediately comes to mind is that repairing power does not matter if one volley's damage exceeds the armor capacity. Lob in some large artilleries and chances are the once every 30 seconds volley blows straight through into hull (you could always try to fix it with medium hull reps between volleys. heh heh).
Unless the pos is 1) targeting on automatic 2) and there's serious amount of targets on offer, it's going to keel over relatively fast by itself. No need for things like disruptor batteries either, the dreadnaught can accomplish that all by itself when it goes into siege mode.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2005.07.17 07:42:00 -
[41]
I see a lot of wishful thinking, especially from POS owners whose only experience with defending their POS is thru an occasional kill-email when an unwary passerby warped to your moon.
Those who have some experience in POS assaults know what dreads will do to POS'es and it won't be pretty.
BTW, if you think clathrates will save you, let me assure you they won't. You will run out.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.07.18 08:02:00 -
[42]
i wonder if u have like 5-10 dreads (if), will the guns always cycle, or can u tell the guns not to cycle?
if they always cycle i guess the dreads can do it, if not they have to stay outside of the lockrange
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Laocoon
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Posted - 2005.07.18 17:49:00 -
[43]
Look, 1 dread, on it's own, will die against any 1/2 decent POS. No matter what. If the pilot is stupid enough to try and do it on his own, then he deserves it. These monsters were deserved to be the focal point, the *motherships* of fleets. Even their *name* tells you it. (until/if the titans come). And read *FLEETS*. If an alliance really wants to take any worthy POS, they should take 2 dreads, and a serious fleet of BSs, cruisers, frigs, AFs and everthing else under the suns (including haulers; a fleet needs ammo). Then they would win. Easily.
Dreads are built for sheer firepower, but are not gods of war or anything. With planning, they will fufill their role perfectly. I dont pretend to know how to do it, but im 100% sure they can if the pilots think about it.
---------------
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aeti
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Posted - 2005.07.18 20:47:00 -
[44]
with a little clever thinking you can easily kill any pos with battleships atm
dreads will just get the job done faster, that is all
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Gallentna
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Posted - 2005.07.19 08:30:00 -
[45]
I was reading about the price of a dread to a pos. Ya sure a pos cost alot less, but dose a pos move? can a pos go from one end of the region to the other to fight a fleet? no, a pos cannot fight a invading fleet, only if the fleet wants to fight it. say a 20 bs fleet jumps in and you ahve a dread sitting about 200km from the gate with support, to say boost its tracking and locking....20 bs = about2 billion ya? and i heard that some dreads can kill a bs in 1 2 volys. so i do belice that the dread should cost alot more, bucase you can do soooo much more damn isk wiz then a pos. 
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Sicori Malaki
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Posted - 2005.07.19 12:11:00 -
[46]
I remember CCP saying that Dreads would be ³ber "pre-nerfed" and that we should look forward to when they will "un-nerf" it, think it was in one of the devblogs.
so maybe atm they dont stand much of a chance solo against a decent POS, but we'll wait and see what CCP does :)
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Only in the Tales that humans tell, do the hunters kill the wolf in the end. |
Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.07.19 12:17:00 -
[47]
Wait 2-3 months there will be many dreads floating around alliance space and some videos.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.07.19 13:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
I remember CCP saying that Dreads would be ³ber "pre-nerfed" and that we should look forward to when they will "un-nerf" it, think it was in one of the devblogs.
The only devblog I remember with a statement like that was referring to the jump drive specifically, not the dread in general.
Players Ego resistances. EM 0%, Therm 0%, Kin 0%, Exp 0%, reality 100%. |
Thanit
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Posted - 2005.07.20 09:06:00 -
[49]
Originally by: SaorAlba
A dreadnaught in posistion will mean the end of your POS.
very wrong.
As long as you can bring along more strontium and other fuel, no pos is vulnerable untill the owner decides it's no longer valid to keep it around.
The only way to remove pos is to haunt it and force it into reinforced mode time after time untill the owner withdraws it.
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PPhearr
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Posted - 2005.07.20 11:29:00 -
[50]
Quote:
i wonder if u have like 5-10 dreads (if), will the guns always cycle, or can u tell the guns not to cycle?
if they always cycle i guess the dreads can do it, if not they have to stay outside of the lockrange
The gunz will cycle under normal conditions, however if you have the right roles within your corp you can get them to focus fire :)
Outrange a POS? Good luck with that, it is IMPOSSIBLE to target beyond 250km in EVE, this is a physically impossed upper limit on locking range (was introduced several patches ago to stop sensor boosted scorps jamming at 400km+). This is presumably why POS also have an activation range of 250km when their gunz can shoot further.
POS aren't indestructable, but you not gonna be outranging them with a dread or anything else. A properly setup, well defended Large POS (Medium and Small aren't gonna be a problem) is gonna be a challenge for even several dreads, but there are plenty of poorly setup, poorly defended POS out there...
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Phear AKA G1mp
NRG Corporation Joint CEO
PPhearr - Purveyor of fine ships.
G1mp - Destroyer of fine ships. |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.07.20 11:33:00 -
[51]
On Sisi, 6 Dreadnoughts in Siege mode with several dozen BS in support took ~30 mins to get a starbase into reinforced mode.
IIRC with two large Capital ship repairers operated in Siege mode, the Amarr one can tank roughly 6 Large Railgun batteries using XL antimatter ammo (that's around about 1600 dps/2000 dps with Gallente tower)
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(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
qtip
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Posted - 2005.07.20 11:44:00 -
[52]
Edited by: qtip on 20/07/2005 11:46:15
Originally by: Thanit
Originally by: SaorAlba
A dreadnaught in posistion will mean the end of your POS.
very wrong.
As long as you can bring along more strontium and other fuel, no pos is vulnerable untill the owner decides it's no longer valid to keep it around.
The only way to remove pos is to haunt it and force it into reinforced mode time after time untill the owner withdraws it.
According to the Exodus documentation, you cant refuel a POS in reinforced mode. You can only do that after it comes out of reinforced and it has reached >50% shield again. Those docs furthermore state that the timer on the reinforced mode gives a date for the final battle for the POS, each side can gather pilots meanwhile for the showdown.
Obviously this is bugged, since no patchnotes or anything else that i know of said there were any changes to this. IMHO refueling POSes that are in reinforced mode should be considered a bug-exploit, GMs dont seem to give a sh*t tho. If thats supposed to be a stealth-feature, that would really suck. A big alliance with a dread-army would have to lay siege to a system with a hostile small POS with a hangar-array full of strontium for days. Ridicolous tbh..
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.07.20 13:09:00 -
[53]
Wow never knew that and yes you are correct that it might be a bug.
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If everything can be questioned who has all the answers?
Only one does! |
Com Cam
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Posted - 2005.07.20 18:50:00 -
[54]
** DISCLAIMER ** I do KNOW and UNDERSTAND MOST POS owners would NOT have such a set up.
I know this is not likely to be the case with most POS...but I do wonder how the POS would do if it had it's own Dread inside the shields? I mean, you have the POS under manual control, and a Dread of your own aiding in defence. Only the richest of POS owners would have such a set up (or Alliance owned POS, perhaps in "enemy systems"), but I do think it would be a HUGE suprise to the attacking fleet. They warp in, setup for the seige, and see a Dread undock from the hanger array and go into siege mode INSIDE the POS shield . Wonder how long it would take the attacking Dreads to crank up their jump drives at this point? Is this even possible? Is there any kind of proxcimity limitations to a Dread in siege mode?
"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.07.20 19:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Com Cam
** DISCLAIMER ** I do KNOW and UNDERSTAND MOST POS owners would NOT have such a set up.
I know this is not likely to be the case with most POS...but I do wonder how the POS would do if it had it's own Dread inside the shields? I mean, you have the POS under manual control, and a Dread of your own aiding in defence. Only the richest of POS owners would have such a set up (or Alliance owned POS, perhaps in "enemy systems"), but I do think it would be a HUGE suprise to the attacking fleet. They warp in, setup for the seige, and see a Dread undock from the hanger array and go into siege mode INSIDE the POS shield . Wonder how long it would take the attacking Dreads to crank up their jump drives at this point? Is this even possible? Is there any kind of proxcimity limitations to a Dread in siege mode?
"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
Patch notes: 3538
You can no longer target other players if you are located inside a force field of a star base, you have to go outside to return fire. Starbase sentries can do so, however.
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If everything can be questioned who has all the answers?
Only one does! |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.07.20 19:33:00 -
[56]
Where does it say Dreanaughts can not warp?
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If everything can be questioned who has all the answers?
Only one does! |
Com Cam
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Posted - 2005.07.20 20:12:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Harisdrop
Patch notes: 3538
You can no longer target other players if you are located inside a force field of a star base, you have to go outside to return fire. Starbase sentries can do so, however.
Ahhh...I am a bit behind on my patch note reading. I did not know this, thanks for pointing it out. This knowlage will definatly help me in my POS planning for when I return from Iraq and get back into the game.
Guess I will have to rely on my sentries and any help I could get from allies (along with some careful defensive planning). But who knows, in 4 months, Dreads and POS abilities could be TOTALLY changed from what it is now. I have noticed Eve is a VERY fluid universe and is forever changing (nerfing).
AS for Dreads warping...never seen anything saying they could not....they can, can't they? Just too big (or what ever) to use jump gates?
"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
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HDCamper Itsim
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Posted - 2005.07.20 21:37:00 -
[58]
Shields should keep stuff not the other way around, people should be able to shoot from within the shields... Those people tend to be outnumbered and industrialists on top of that.
At least nerf things to be consistant... Either have shields that keep stuff out or just keep things separated. Otherwise stick the POS modules outside the shield which will make all pvp oriented players that much happier or allow the smaller groups of strategist/builders be able to hold off the more skilled players/besiegers by shooting from within the shield.
Why in the heck shouldnt you be able to shovel fuel and stuff into the pos while its being besieged? Then give it a lot more space to store fuel and componants. If the owner wants to put a years worth of stuff in it, let em.
No, I do not have a POS, and frankly if I can't sell product to an NPC buyer, I won't hardly build it or mine it anymore.
Heck even the BIO seems to be nerfed, try keeping a years worth of interesting highlights in your bio....
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.08.13 12:44:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Viceroy
POS are outrageously overpowered at the moment. Their price is pathetic compared to their utility, that is if any price could be high enough for that kind of defense.
Dreads ain't no solution.
Dreads help. the thing is POS are a lot cheaper than dreads but require a LOT of maintenance.
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Gan Ning
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Posted - 2005.08.13 16:02:00 -
[60]
If dreads havent changed much since chaos, they can't warp for several minutes when in siege mode so you wont even need to worry about warp scrambling it. Just make sure your POS has ecm/dampening structures, shield hardening structures and you have a gank fleet head over to help when you come under attack.
Obviously have them go for the dreads first and any other losses you take, even if its your POS will seem trivial.
Dread = several billion
POS = a few hundred million
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Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2005.08.17 03:09:00 -
[61]
Dreads in siege mode do something like 500% damage, and have a stupid repair amount, a Fully armed POS will do about the same DOT as a well flown and equiped Dread can Tank. The only thing that can save the POS is the reinforced mode. A dread hitting for 1800 * missle skill bonus *500% * 3 launchers will be dishing out wicked damage.
A dread in siege mode can make work of a POS, but a fleet will have to blockade a re-supply effort so the reinforced mode ends
But Basically individual corps using POS in an alliance controlled space will be mostly eliminated.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.08.17 08:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Kelgen Thann
Dreads in siege mode do something like 500% damage, and have a stupid repair amount, a Fully armed POS will do about the same DOT as a well flown and equiped Dread can Tank. The only thing that can save the POS is the reinforced mode. A dread hitting for 1800 * missle skill bonus *500% * 3 launchers will be dishing out wicked damage.
A dread in siege mode can make work of a POS, but a fleet will have to blockade a re-supply effort so the reinforced mode ends
But Basically individual corps using POS in an alliance controlled space will be mostly eliminated.
As a POS owner myself, I'm very interested in seeing how the 'dread vs. POS' balance actually works in practice.
There's a balance to be struck, between a POS being 'fairly solid' and able (if well set up) to suck up a reasonable sized attack, and the ability to remove 'unwelcome' starbases.
The balance I think, is when a 'reasonable' sized fleet can take down an unattended POS, where a 'large' fleet is needed to destroy a properly defended one.
If anyone _is_ planning a strike on a POS, I'd love to see the vid. :)
I still think it'll be far more cost effective to blockade the system than take it down by main force.
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Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2005.08.17 16:42:00 -
[63]
Do shield hardening arrays work? They look like a good thing to try to outlast, or at least survive longer vs. a dread...
BW
Originally by: Mistress D'Malice
POS outputs where fine...its the fuel that needed the help.
Originally by: Nyxus
A Vagabond or Deimos is like a rabid wolverine and the web is your arm holding it away f |
Roga Midrennie
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:18:00 -
[64]
Yeah, Shield Hardener arrays do work. I set some up on a POS i had and shot missiles at it. They did the appropriate reduced damage.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.08.19 01:12:00 -
[65]
The main advantage of a dread is the ability to tank a starbase, not firepower. If you want to take down a tower within any sort of reasonable timeframe you need a few dreads and some battleships to boot.
Simply put, you jump into the system, warp to a covert ops in position, hit the siege module and start doing your thing..
Without siege mode, dread has the dps of maybe 3 battleships or one gankageddon. Siege mode is 500% to damage, so about the firepower of five gankageddons, depending on which dread you use.
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