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Has forum discussion ever resulted in a major change in EvE's gameplay?

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Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 78	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:03:00 - [1] - Quote I'm sitting here typing like mad on occasion and it dawned on me. Only a fraction of the game population uses the forums for various personal reasons and is only logical that CCP not use the forums to make drastic game changes. And today there was a post in which I had pretty good reasons to reply to but a part of me deep down inside thought "It's not really going to make a difference. CCP isn't going to read my opponents or my post and say: WE NEED TO DO THAT ASAP!" Can anyone point to any change in EvE that was directly caused by whining, debate, or logical thesis put forward by a forum poster? Or are we will just verbaly abusing each other because we have a false hope that by doing so CCP will listen to us and magically come to the conclusion that we are right and everyone else is wrong and that they will make changes that will drastically affect large portions of the player base because we as a individual feel that it is right. Where do we get off on such a world view? I legitimately want examples so I feel that my efforts are not in vain. Discuss. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2804	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:04:00 - [2] - Quote mining barge buffs
Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 78	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:08:00 - [3] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs I once cited that as an example of CCP being in favor of hi-sec lifestyle because they were afraid of sub loss, and was told by other forum posters that they were planning the changes to mining barges anyways before hulkageddon. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 703	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:08:00 - [4] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs Can't emphasize this enough the forum whining got mining barges their unwarranted EHP buffs. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 78	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:14:00 - [5] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs Can't emphasize this enough the forum whining got mining barges their unwarranted EHP buffs. How do we know it was forum posts and not petitions plus the cancelation reaons people give? Did CCP come out and say "Because of the threadnaught, we have decided to give in to your demands!" Can you post a link to that post? If that is the case why don't they buff null-sec with all the threadnaughts created on it. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Karrl Tian Exiled Assassins Equestria Alliance 175	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:18:00 - [6] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs Can't emphasize this enough the forum whining got mining barges their unwarranted EHP buffs. Gotta do something while you mine.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2804	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:18:00 - [7] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs I once cited that as an example of CCP being in favor of hi-sec lifestyle because they were afraid of sub loss, and was told by other forum posters that they were planning the changes to mining barges anyways before hulkageddon. oh those other forum posters were also bads
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 703	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:24:00 - [8] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: La Nariz wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs Can't emphasize this enough the forum whining got mining barges their unwarranted EHP buffs. How do we know it was forum posts and not petitions plus the cancelation reaons people give? Did CCP come out and say "Because of the threadnaught, we have decided to give in to your demands!" Can you post a link to that post? If that is the case why don't they buff null-sec with all the threadnaughts created on it. I do not know why CCP catered to the miner's demands but refuse to fix something that is obviously broken and has been broken for years. I assume its all with the recent trend of highsec pampering or something to do with a timetable they have set, a little information from them here would be awesome. We don't know anything about cancellations or petitions because those are not published but its awful convenient that when a bunch of threads from angry miners popped up CCP decided it was time to "rebalance" mining. It's also very suspicious that CCP decided to change their mind about mining ship EHP at the last moment in the thread discussing it, and doing it before players could provide meaningful input. The best thing that could probably be done would be to revamp mining entirely and make it considerably less boring as well as more interactive. This would make it easier to identify bots which everyone hates while making mining much less of a newbie killing profession. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 78	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:26:00 - [9] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Captain Tardbar wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs I once cited that as an example of CCP being in favor of hi-sec lifestyle because they were afraid of sub loss, and was told by other forum posters that they were planning the changes to mining barges anyways before hulkageddon. oh those other forum posters were also bads So does that mean CCP supports hi-sec activities because it fears subscription loss? I mean if CCP wasn't afraid of all those miners on the forums were going to quit, then there was no need to make the barge change? And if that is true does it really mean that CCP supports the hi-sec, carebear, NPC corp lifestyle? Obviously, if the forum rage got CCP to make the change, then the gankers obviously did not make much of a counter argument in the numbers needed to cancel out the vote so to say. [edit] In that respect... Would you threaten to quit if CCP made the game too carebear in hisec or would you just keep playing in low/null?? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Atrocitas 2897	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:28:00 - [10] - Quote The Minmatar boost a few years back was a result of forum warrioring. I think you underestimate how information spreads through Eve. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2804	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:36:00 - [11] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Captain Tardbar wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs I once cited that as an example of CCP being in favor of hi-sec lifestyle because they were afraid of sub loss, and was told by other forum posters that they were planning the changes to mining barges anyways before hulkageddon. oh those other forum posters were also bads So does that mean CCP supports hi-sec activities because it fears subscription loss? I mean if CCP wasn't afraid of all those miners on the forums were going to quit, then there was no need to make the barge change? And if that is true does it really mean that CCP supports the hi-sec, carebear, NPC corp lifestyle? Obviously, if the forum rage got CCP to make the change, then the gankers obviously did not make much of a counter argument in the numbers needed to cancel out the vote so to say. At one point EVE was much harsher then it was at present. Endless whines by carebears have resulted in increasing safety and bad carebear-oriented expansions introduced with no corroborating boosts in subscription numbers. Likewise, forum complaints convinced CCP to needlessly buff barges in the face of 'mass unsubs' which never happened and never materialized. Clearly, forum complaints are a powerful tool because they are able to convince CCP of things that are plainly untrue, like the "carebear dollar" myth. After Incarna hit the floor, CCP had truth forced upon it and since then it has been updating PVP ships and mechanics (like bounty system, crimewatch and wardecs). The important thing is to continue to expunge the 'carebear dollar' myth from CCP's heads to keep them from being manipulated by selfish gold farmers from inadvertantly destroying EVE with their risk-adverse greed. Quote: In that respect... Would you threaten to quit if CCP made the game too carebear in hisec or would you just keep playing in low/null?? I leave that sort of behavior for those who would lie for self-benefit.
Hir Miriel Elves In Space 46	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:39:00 - [12] - Quote Space, the final frontier, where nobody can hear you type. Forums are the original social networks, and dang handy for those times where we are stuck with unexciting jobs like mining. I'm a great fan of forums. Nothing like busting out the forum-fu and getting dirty with some forum PvP. I don't think you need specific examples to prove forums work, although no doubt they exist. The very act of talking changes things. For example, go shopping and say nothing, then next time chat to a few people, checkout operator and so on. There is a difference, intangible, but still there. Here we get to socialise, have a few laughs, explore a few ideas, bash on the bad guys for a bit (CCP) and learn things. In other words, we have fun.
Aren Madigan EVE University Ivy League 26	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:42:00 - [13] - Quote As the sole factor? Unlikely. Usually forums are used to get some insight on some of the views of the playerbase and they use other things to make a final determination. People like blaming whatever they can for changes they don't like or if they don't get what they want, but this really is something that's a middle ground thing.
Urgg Boolean Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 333	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:47:00 - [14] - Quote Shooting monuments and loss of subs gets results. Forums posts - not so much. Look at the Uni Inv issue. I screamed all over the forums that it was borked on SiSI and they published anyway. Later, they used all the complaints on the forums to fix things most complained about - but initially, the forums were ignored.
Captain Tardbar NEWB ALERT 78	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:50:00 - [15] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: At one point EVE was much harsher then it was at present. Endless whines by carebears have resulted in increasing safety and bad carebear-oriented expansions introduced with no corroborating boosts in subscription numbers. Likewise, forum complaints convinced CCP to needlessly buff barges in the face of 'mass unsubs' which never happened and never materialized. Clearly, forum complaints are a powerful tool because they are able to convince CCP of things that are plainly untrue, like the "carebear dollar" myth. After Incarna hit the floor, CCP had truth forced upon it and since then it has been updating PVP ships and mechanics (like bounty system, crimewatch and wardecs). The important thing is to continue to expunge the 'carebear dollar' myth from CCP's heads to keep them from being manipulated by selfish gold farmers from inadvertantly destroying EVE with their risk-adverse greed. So do you believe if you keep posting on the forums that CCP will listen to you or do you feel doomed to be droned out the carebears in the end? One comment I'd like to make is that it does seem that EvE is at least sustaining its subscription numbers. It has a pretty healthy 50,000 players during peak times during the weekends. Ore prices are up showing that players are churning through ships through some sort of PvP (or bad PvE). From a personal perspective I don't feel that EvE is in danger of going the way of Star Wars Galaxies anytime soon. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Bane Necran Appono Astos 1589	Posted - 2013.02.03 05:12:00 - [16] - Quote Wait, nevermind. Apparently i need to do the sleep thing. "The nice thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive." ~Kenneth Williams
Whitehound 603	Posted - 2013.02.03 08:57:00 - [17] - Quote No. You can now stop posting, leave the forum and never return. These are not the droids you are looking for. waves hand SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 2129	Posted - 2013.02.03 09:02:00 - [18] - Quote Thread Title wrote: Has forum discussion ever resulted in a major change in EvE's gameplay? Yes Mr Epeen -ávOv
Kalle Demos Ironic Corp Name 154	Posted - 2013.02.03 09:06:00 - [19] - Quote CCP read the forums, whether they do anything, that ultimately depends on how many people cry for change and how many people cry agaist the proposed change. The forums are all about tear generation, the side that produces the most tears wins
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 193	Posted - 2013.02.03 09:26:00 - [20] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: Only a fraction of the game population uses the forums for various personal reasons and is only logical that CCP not use the forums to make drastic game changes. This does not follow. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=rnd[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation)
baltec1 Bat Country 5011	Posted - 2013.02.03 09:27:00 - [21] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs I once cited that as an example of CCP being in favor of hi-sec lifestyle because they were afraid of sub loss, and was told by other forum posters that they were planning the changes to mining barges anyways before hulkageddon. They were. The problem is that CCP were fooled into thinking the mack needed an EHP buff. They were also fooled into thinking a tanked exhumer/barge was profitable to gank.
Ai Shun 846	Posted - 2013.02.03 09:51:00 - [22] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: I'm sitting here typing like mad on occasion and it dawned on me. Only a fraction of the game population uses the forums for various personal reasons and is only logical that CCP not use the forums to make drastic game changes. Where is Walking in Stations? EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 4422	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:22:00 - [23] - Quote CCP uses the forums all the time, but their decisions aren't determined solely by them nor are their priorities. This doesn't mean forums can't greatly influence that decision making or raise issues to urgent priorities. More often it's a case of CCP deciding to tackle some issue or feature and using the existing forum discussions as a tool to gauge peoples reaction, argument for and against, get feedback and get ideas. Forum discussion also lets us to spread ideas among ourselves, which can then influence CCP through outside channels. It's a powerful tool for spreading your ideas, but ignoring other information sources and relying solely on forum noise would be a pretty dumb thing for CCP to do. For example the clone system, both medical and jump, will be reworked at some point. CCP will be the one to determine the goals of that change, but even that will be partly based on the discussions people have had about those system and the means to achieve them will certainly be influenced by forum discussions about them. It's just unrealistic to expect a forum discussion to immediately lead to drastic changes to the game even if every player and every devs reading it agreed on an issue. There are hundreds of good ideas and thousands of bad ones being suggested and CCP can maybe tackle a few dozen of them per expansion. A lot of ideas do get to be implemented even if the method isn't exactly what was suggested. Just from the top of my head Wormhole space as it is in the game today was requested many years before it was implemented. The skillqueue was debated for years on a constant basis before the pressure mounted enough for CCP to get around to adding it. Getting CCP to nerf nanofags was also a glorious moment in forum drama. Changing the mission agents system from the old complex/random one to a system close the the current one was suggested by many. I'm sure large number of the changes made to the game have been influenced by the forums in one form or another. I think it pretty clear, that the forums have a great influence on how this game is being developed. It just doesn't mean CCP relies only on the forums to make design decisions or that every stupid idea that gets spammed over and over again is ever going to be implemented. Genuinely good ideas tend to get integrated to the game in some form sooner or later though.
Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District 253	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:23:00 - [24] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs Miners complained about dying, CCP took the chance to make all mining ships have their own roles and rework the entire ship line... miners still get ganked every day... sound like a happy ending to me! Now if only instead of complaining about how goons have ruined eve and non-reinforced nodes can't support 2700poeple in lowsec people would complain about something which could lead to a change. "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 3029	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:26:00 - [25] - Quote The Device It does stuff. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H. 279	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:29:00 - [26] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Captain Tardbar wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs I once cited that as an example of CCP being in favor of hi-sec lifestyle because they were afraid of sub loss, and was told by other forum posters that they were planning the changes to mining barges anyways before hulkageddon. They were. The problem is that CCP were fooled into thinking the mack needed an EHP buff. They were also fooled into thinking a tanked exhumer/barge was profitable to gank. No, what some people *tried* to fool them into thinking, was that people really cared if it was a couple of million below or above the profitability line to gank them. "No CCP, really, if people go full tank we wont destroyer-gank just for lulz. We swear! Please!"
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 422	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:34:00 - [27] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs Can't emphasize this enough the forum whining got mining barges their unwarranted EHP buffs. Worst then then the EHP buff is the ridiculous new Ore Cargo hold. The Ore Thief career is extinct. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.
Dave Stark 1801	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:35:00 - [28] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: mining barge buffs shame they totally failed at rebalancing the ships, though. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
baltec1 Bat Country 5011	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:43:00 - [29] - Quote Pohbis wrote: No, what some people *tried* to fool them into thinking, was that people really cared if it was a couple of million below or above the profitability line to gank them. "No CCP, really, if people go full tank we wont destroyer-gank just for lulz. We swear! Please!" Funny how the ganking more or less vanished when it became unprofitable to do.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 729	Posted - 2013.02.03 10:58:00 - [30] - Quote Akita's "thousand papercuts" project had a massive influence on EVE. Maybe not one massive change to EVE's core gameplay but many, many small changes that affected overall gameplay significantly. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid.

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