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ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
14
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
sorry quoted wrong post. |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:16:00 -
[92] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Karim alRashid wrote:Sorry, but APPARENTLY it's meant to be a repair ship ALSO -
- it has bonuses for the repair role
- it has a specific unique module for the repair role
- it has specific unique skills for the repair role
- and it has specific operation mode for the repair role
And after all of the above, you come and claim that it's not meant for a repair role and all of the above is accidental? Riiiiiight! I "claim" nothing of the sort, so don't put words in my mouth.
Oh, you surely said:
Jada Maroo wrote: A carrier's role is precisely what it sounds like. It is not meant to be a repair ship, it is meant to be a long distance gank ship.
So when I come and say that you claimed that a carrier is not meant for a repair role, I specifically refer your own words, quoting:
Quote: It is not meant to be a repair ship
Anything not clear? |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:21:00 -
[93] - Quote
ITTigerClawIK wrote:sorry quoted wrong post.
OK, then I think fighters should be re-purposed to anti-capital role, with fighter bombers doing that same role, but better and on a different ship.
It's nothing new or unique, if you look what kinds of anti-X weapons we have, for any X you'll find various weapons - turrets, missiles, drones.
So no big deal that we'll have several kinds of anti-capital weapons as well.
If needed, fighters may be changed to be an anti-capital weapon with different traits than other anti-capital weapons, but in any case, the anti-capital role seems appropriate.
|

Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
217
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:23:00 -
[94] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:
I "claim" nothing of the sort, so don't put words in my mouth.
Oh, you surely said: Jada Maroo wrote: A carrier's role is precisely what it sounds like. It is not meant to be a repair ship, it is meant to be a long distance gank ship.
So when I come and say that you claimed that a carrier is not meant for a repair role, I specifically refer your own words, quoting: Quote: It is not meant to be a repair ship
Anything not clear?
Oh look how you conveniently cut your own sentence short and expected me not to notice. Here, let me quote the whole thing for you since you seem to have forgotten:
Quote:you come and claim that it's not meant for a repair role and all of the above is accidental? Riiiiiight!
Yeah I clearly claimed all that was accidental. Except I didn't. Seriously, kindergarten level word games aren't gonna win you any arguments with me. |

leich
Sad Panda'z Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
5
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:Evil Celeste wrote:Carriers role is LOGISTICS - you know, REMOTE REPAIR.
Not dps. Yeah, because when the USS Nimitz launches F-18s they're flying off to repair stuff. Seriously, you're a tard. Confirming an imaginary spaceship in an online game is analogous to real-life naval ship. That said, carriers are multi-purpose - either logistics or combat ships depending on fit.
You are a tard
'Fleet Support'
Support being the Key word.
Thats RR, DPS, Comand Links,
You know supporting a Sub cap Fleet. |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
24
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:44:00 -
[96] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode I should had never left X3: Reunion |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
24
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:45:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Thank you for the feedback! Please have a look at (...) by CCP Tallest about the changes to fighters.
Hey, what are you doing? Since when did you start attending to common sense suggestions by players? What will be next, nerf the outrageous NEx prices by 60%?  I should had never left X3: Reunion |

Sir Substance
Tactical Knightmare
50
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:51:00 -
[98] - Quote
Good god, time to unsubscribe to this monstrosity of a thread! |

Djakku
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
4
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:51:00 -
[99] - Quote
It's all about tracking and orbiting, a stationary fighter with 400m sig res will hit a stationary battleship, just as Garde II's do (who also have 400m sig res) But fighters aren't stationary, fighters orbit! |

Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:02:00 -
[100] - Quote
MY fighters were never useful to begin with. Carriers are just the logistic ships of capitals with some drones to get on killmails with. |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:05:00 -
[101] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote: If battleships had a mining bonus tacked on out of nowhere, would you say battleships are mining vessels? No, because they aren't. And the bonus would be bizarre and obviously not belong there.
The purpose of a ship is determined by its bonuses and fit, not by its name. Period.
If it has mining bonuses it's a ship meant to be mining, no matter if it's called a battleship, barge or a pink bunny.
Don't embarrass yourself anymore. |

Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
217
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:11:00 -
[102] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:
The purpose of a ship is determined by its bonuses and fit, not by its name. Period.
If it has mining bonuses it's a ship meant to be mining, no matter if it's called a battleship, barge or a pink bunny.
Don't embarrass yourself anymore.
Right, so if a battleship has a mining bonus then battleships are mining vessels. That makes perfect sense. In stupid land.
Seriously, do the world (and English language) a favor and self detonate already. |

Evil Celeste
3
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:36:00 -
[103] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Karim alRashid wrote:
The purpose of a ship is determined by its bonuses and fit, not by its name. Period.
If it has mining bonuses it's a ship meant to be mining, no matter if it's called a battleship, barge or a pink bunny.
Don't embarrass yourself anymore.
Right, so if a battleship has a mining bonus then battleships are mining vessels. That makes perfect sense. In stupid land. Seriously, do the world (and English language) a favor and self detonate already.
Heh, you are complete ******. Funny to see that other people actually tried to argue with you.
But i know, ss ninitz doesnt have capital remote repaires and shield transporters, so carriers in eve are not logistic ships. It also cant jump through a stargate, so carriers in eve cant use stargate neither. Makes sense.  
|

Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
219
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:43:00 -
[104] - Quote
Evil Celeste wrote:Heh, you are complete ******. Funny to see that other people actually tried to argue with you. But i know, ss ninitz doesnt have capital remote repaires and shield transporters, so carriers in eve are not logistic ships. It also cant jump through a stargate, so carriers in eve cant use stargate neither. Makes sense.  
Near as I can tell, you're the only one who thinks carriers should be logistics and not dps, and I don't see anyone in the thread agreeing with that. Not even Habib the battleship-miner up there. |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
So, Jada Moron claims that the purpose of a ship is determined by its class name.
Thus, cruisers are entertainment ships. Marauders cannot kill other ships, because they apparently can only loot corpses. Logistics are used to move stuff around.
   |

Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
104
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Posted - 2011.10.11 14:50:00 -
[106] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote: I don't know how anyone in their right mind could make a natural common sensical leap that carriers = repair platforms. It's dumb and doesn't make sense. If battleships had a mining bonus tacked on out of nowhere, would you say battleships are mining vessels? No, because they aren't. And the bonus would be bizarre and obviously not belong there.
Are you daft? The carrier bonus to logistics is hardly a "tacked on" affair. Carriers ARE repair platforms, end of story. They were designed for fleet support. To keep a fleet alive, to extend command bonuses, to house replacement ships, act as a refitting platform away from a starbase, and in some situations (not all), to provide supplemental DPS. They are defensive in design, and defensive in nature. Fighters have always only ever put out DPS on par with a well-fitted BS - this is intentional. They are not meant to be dropped in numbers to kill things. Tempests and Abaddons do this much better for 1/10th the cost per equivalent DPS.
If the carrier logistics bonus is "tacked on", than on what ship is a Triage module supposed to be fitted? Do you really think they "tacked on" an entire specialized module to coincide with a "tacked on" bonus?
|

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
40
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
NOW:
1. Small group enters nullsec system 2. Bots automatically dock up 3. Person running the bots notices this and pushes fat girlfriend off his lap. 4. Gets into an SC and starts hunting small group - or the appearance of this ship is enough to run them off. 5. Bots are back out. 0.0 is back to normal.
WINTER: 1 and 2 remain the same... 3. Person running the bots must now contact his RMT associates for help 4. Someone has to run intel as to the makeup of this small group and what will be needed. Bots will still be docked up, time's a wasting and money is being lost. Rent is coming due. 5. Some of the associates can't get out from under their fat girlfriends - further delays ensue. Small group is ratting or running a complex in the meantime and they have combat probes out. 6. Eventually they get it together and deal with the small group - but the outcome is not fully determined. They might lose.
|

Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
220
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:10:00 -
[108] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
If the carrier logistics bonus is "tacked on", than on what ship is a Triage module supposed to be fitted? Do you really think they "tacked on" an entire specialized module to coincide with a "tacked on" bonus?
Yep. Because it was easier than making seperate ships, and because they needed something that would be the defensive counter to siege modules (even if it's often used in other ways). They could have made new ships specifically for this purpose, but instead they slapped it onto carriers where it doesn't make much sense existing.
You seem to be as dense as the other guy when it comes to reading. How they currently function is not the dispute, yet you seem to want to make it so. The dispute is what they should be, and what is the proper role of a carrier. And that is not to be a mobile repair station. You seem to think they should continue to be a generic mish-mash, but mostly logistics. I'm saying if you want logistics, there ought to be a real capital logistics ship leaving carriers to do what the class of the ship implies it ought to - carrying fighters and killing things from far away, and being very good and specialized at it.
That's what carriers do. They don't repair other vessels. They don't repair buildings. They launch fighters and blow **** up. Seriously what is so hard to understand? |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:15:00 -
[109] - Quote
Habib, the towelhead, is amused.  |

Evil Celeste
4
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:25:00 -
[110] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Habib, the towelhead, is amused. 

|

Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
220
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 15:30:00 -
[111] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Habib, the towelhead, is amused. 
If a forum post could be converted into a picture, your's would look like a kid with Down's syndrome smiling at a Slurpy. |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:35:00 -
[112] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Karim alRashid wrote:Habib, the towelhead, is amused.  If a forum post could be converted into a picture, your's would look like a kid with Down's syndrome smiling at a Slurpy.
"yours"
|

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
306
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:37:00 -
[113] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
If the carrier logistics bonus is "tacked on", than on what ship is a Triage module supposed to be fitted? Do you really think they "tacked on" an entire specialized module to coincide with a "tacked on" bonus?
Whilst you do make some good points, I'm reasonably sure that triage modules were introduced some time after carriers made their debut.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
455
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:37:00 -
[114] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:The dispute is what they should be, and what is the proper role of a carrier. And that is not to be a mobile repair station. Based on what? Real life? The problem with that argument is that if we followed it, battlecruisers would be probably the most powerful ships in the game. Frigates would be the greatest threat ever to carriers. Battleships would not exist.
etc. etc. etc.
You are still arguing a role based on the name, for no adequately explained reason.
Quote:That's what carriers do. They don't repair other vessels. They don't repair buildings. They launch fighters and blow **** up. Seriously what is so hard to understand? No, that's what real life carriers do, and real life is almost 100% irrelevant when it comes to determining how stuff works in EVE. Why is that so hard to understand?
Put another way: why should carriers work the way you say they should work? GÇ£Because RLGÇ¥ is not an acceptable answer. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
220
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 15:42:00 -
[115] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:Karim alRashid wrote:Habib, the towelhead, is amused.  If a forum post could be converted into a picture, your's would look like a kid with Down's syndrome smiling at a Slurpy. "yours"
Slurpee. That you harp on the apostrophe and not the much more glaring misspelling of Slurpee just proves you totally miss the obvious. |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:45:00 -
[116] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
If the carrier logistics bonus is "tacked on", than on what ship is a Triage module supposed to be fitted? Do you really think they "tacked on" an entire specialized module to coincide with a "tacked on" bonus?
Whilst you do make some good points, I'm reasonably sure that triage modules were introduced some time after carriers made their debut.
Yes, triage was introduced in 2007 in Revelations II.
http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=2802
|

Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
137
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:46:00 -
[117] - Quote
The rage is strong in this thread. |

Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:46:00 -
[118] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Karim alRashid wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:Karim alRashid wrote:Habib, the towelhead, is amused.  If a forum post could be converted into a picture, your's would look like a kid with Down's syndrome smiling at a Slurpy. "yours" Slurpee. That you harp on the apostrophe and not the much more glaring misspelling of Slurpee just proves you totally miss the obvious.
Sorry, I'm not aware of all the brand names you have in Stupid Land.  |

Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
220
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 16:23:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:The dispute is what they should be, and what is the proper role of a carrier. And that is not to be a mobile repair station. Based on what? Real life?
All right, let's not use real life as an example. If you prefer, you can use sci fi depictions of carriers. Or better yet, just ask yourself what you personally think of when someone says carrier in reference to a ship.
Carrier.
What comes to mind? Repairing ships and buildings? Or launching fighters off the deck to attack targets? My guess is the latter. Yet here we have a ship called a carrier which seemingly doesn't excel at the latter, but the former. That seems more than a little odd to me, especially in a game that recognizes the unique role of logistics support ships.
Quote:The problem with that argument is that if we followed it, battlecruisers would be probably the most powerful ships in the game. Frigates would be the greatest threat ever to carriers. Battleships would not exist.
After the logoffski fix, frigates might actually *be* the biggest threats to carriers. But seriously, just because battleships as a class are retired today doesn't mean they will always be. Near as I can tell, the classes of the ships in Eve seem to coincide with their relative size/strength when loosely compared to their historical counterparts. Frigate -> Destroyer -> Cruiser -> Battlecruiser (weaker, faster battleships) -> Battleship -> Dreadnought (bigger, badder battleship). CCP didn't just pluck the names out of Wikipedia and slap them on ships randomly. They tried to make the class names fit the ships. So why does carrier suddenly become "repair platform?"
Quote: Put another way: why should carriers work the way you say they should work? GÇ£Because RLGÇ¥ is not an acceptable answer.
As said above, they don't need to work exactly the same way. But if you're going to call them carriers, then make them excel at being carriers. If you want them to be fleet support ships, call them fleet support ships, keep triage or even boost it, add more command link bonuses, and remove the fighter bay. |

Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2011.10.11 16:33:00 -
[120] - Quote
Translation:
Whaaaaaaa Whaaaaaa Whaaaaaa Whaaaa *sniffle Whaaaaa Whaaaaa Whaaaaaa CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
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