This is a Massively Multiplayer Game, not a Massively Singleplayer Game, and as such, you should be encouraged, even forced, to deal with other people, both in positive and negative ways, while you play it. If you don't want to have to deal with people, I suggest Freelancer or FTL for your Spaceship Game needs.

A lot of threads of late on nerfing NPC Corps. Why? Well, after all the arguemnts for it are dismissed (and they usually are becuase their invalid) two things remain:

1. Wardec. War dec who? miners? nope that never comes up, Traders? nope, be usuless anyways since they don't undock. Pirates/Gankers? nada, they are the ones wanting the nerf. So wardec who? That brings us to ...

2) Haulers. They want to wardec haulers. hmm, that would mean, what they want is to Wardec Red Frog and Push, but that's useless since the only ones in those allaince are the contract brokers. So, in the end, what they want is to attack freighters, particualry those in corps like Red Frog and Push, in Hi-Sec with no recourse from Concord.

They make claims that NPC players have all the rewards with no risk, but they want CCP to give them just that. Give frieght gankers all the reward from attacking freighters in Hi-Sec with none of the risk of being Concorded. The number of hauler alts in NPC Corps is infinently small, but they wish to punish the whole lot over a very small number of players.

since this is neraly all about them, where's Red Frog and Push on this issue. It's you're boats they want.

Hello Mr. Fairground Fortune Teller. Don't give up your daytime job

....
My opinion is that wardecs provide a useful means for engaging in PvP in hisec. Evasion of wardecs is human nature: attempting to force people to fight is counter productive.

Like the above, your "solution" is NEVER going to be implemented. What fool would produce a MMO and suggest people to go play something else?

EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.

Tyrannis, Incursion

didn't really read past that point since I figured it was more of what I just quoted
hth

didn't really read past that point since I figured it was more of what I just quoted
hth

I'll post here what I just posted in another thread:

Repeat after me people: There is more to PvP than pew pew.

Tyrannis a PvE expansion? Then let's call implementing moons in nullsec PvE too.

Every PI item I sell is money I take and compete for with someone else

Outside hi sec it's possible to shoot the PI structure, to make people pay "rental" and so on. Actually those structures are "PVP enablers" like gates and stations so I can't really see what you are trying to say.

Where I play, people "force fights" regularly upon one another. The difference is there's consequences for declining.

Hey if you want I can also quote politic propaganda, advertisments, pyramidal schemes samples and so on.

Words are nothing, money talks. Call me back once CCP actually follow up their words, ok?

Right and I'm the only one here (except for an enlightened few) who is capable of acknowledging that. I am trying to educate people here that EVE is at heart a sandbox based on a PvP-driven and centric economy, and that players who are "declining PvP" are doing anything but, their input and impact effecting all other players.

Those fights that you are talking about are easily evaded with "didn't want that sov anyway." The "consequence" is that you lose territory, which you can then claim back the next week when the invader has spent their energy and is busy carebearing it up.

But please, continue telling me how hisec wardecs are like nullsec sovereignty warfare.

You miss my point - they are not declining PvP - they are declining PewPew. There is a difference.

Take a mission bear, what do they do? They convert LP to isk - that applied ratio is PvP. They buy ammo - those orders are PvP. You see where I'm going.

The market was an EVE feature that existed before Tyrannis. The EVE release that introduced the market was a PvP feature, Tyrannis was not.

POCOs were not introduced with Tyrannis. That was put in the Crucible expansion. That's why Crucible was a successful expansion and Tyrannis was a riskfree PvE expansion that exposed the "carebear dollar" myth that riskfree PvE = $$$

hth

That's why Crucible was a successful expansion and Tyrannis was a riskfree PvE expansion that exposed the "carebear dollar" myth that riskfree PvE = $$$

You were claiming that if players couldn't 'NPC corp' out of PVP it would be some sort of gamekiller, despite nearly 100k EVE players thriving in such a scenario.

After carebear catering nearly killed EVE by alienating its decidedly non-"PvE only" playerbase, each and every EVE expansion has been focused towards enhancing PvP/emergent content content and mechanics, with things like POCOs (as you pointed out) and datacores being moved to FW so resources are geared towards those with risks. I'll keep pushing the removal of NPC corps and you're right, we'll see.

Tyrannis added products to the markets.

Tyrannis was a sheet expansion like WiS but it was not "PvE" and lol at crucible being succesful "because of POCOs". Crucible improved TiDi, frigates, changed timers, changed sky backgrounds, introduced T3 BCs just to say a subset of stuff. That's a bit "more" than POCOs.

The only "care bear dollar" story that I'm aware of is the idea that if you take away too much PvE, players will drop their PvE alts.

I'm sure that if decent PvE was introduced to the game, there would be new players subscribing for the new PvE experience. Quantum Rise and Incursion caused a decent increase in active players.

Correct, they're competing against other players who do take risks and lower the competitive bar towards ISK making in EVE to a level where wardecs or engaging in any nonconsensual PvP becomes a competitive disadvantage. This is bad for many reasons, mainly because the rampant devaluation of ISk and commodities harms casuals and newbies as cumulative risk-free wealth is endlessly cycled into generating more wealth, creating increasing barriers between rich and poor - the ability to predate on wealthy targets, or the wealthy having to purchase protection no longer a constraint on this.

You claim it is fine because of 'suicide ganking', but suicide ganking is not a risk so much as a calculation- anyone capable of basic math is able to avoid exceeding the ratio where ganking a ship becomes profitable. So "suicide ganking" is not an acceptable 'all the PvP needed in highsec".

Those in player corps can get to less tax, that's up to an 11% advantage right there, they can also get better refining/etc for dealing with the mission loots.

Besides, what happens if you dec a mission bear corp? Typically one of two things:

1) The one man corp reforms: no PewPew.
2) They do not undock: No PewPew. Net effect on market? Less than a suicide gank, most likely.

Sometimes someone will screw up and get popped, but it's not that common

I never said it was - I said it is an acceptable answer to forcing PewPew onto people who don't want it.

Just put NPC corp tax up to 25%, that way if you want the safety of NPC corps you get it but at the price of isk. That way it is a valid choice rather than a default safety net.

Wouldnt really affect pure haulers but tbh who care about haulers.

And? Markets are PvP, Tyrannis did not 'the market' to EVE online, it added the Planetary Interface - a particularly boring piece of PvE.
hth

I don't see "PvE" anywhere in that list. That's what I mean by 'that's why Crucible was successful', because it looked at PvE expansions like Tyrannis and Incursion, and concluded that the "silent carebear majority" that would threaten to leave if riskfree PvE was nerfed in anyway, didn't actually exist and wisely ignored the cries of their self-appointed champions. Incursions were nerfed, POCOs were added, lowsec and nullsec were given greater PI yields, etc. Competition and emergent content were recognized as the only future for EVE Online.

Result:
Incursion: Failure

nice source

I don't think it would satisfy those with this particular axe to grind. They want to shoot people who dont want to fight and they want to pay as little as possible for the privilege.

Look at the +60D numbers.