Avoid Uedama, Niarja, Sivala, Jita.

Avoid Uedama, Niarja, Sivala, Jita.

I just want to become a hauler and just wondering, how often do hauler get killed? Assuming I'm on a Charon that is. And maybe you could share some tips on how not to get suicide ganked except for the usual of keeping your cargo low ISK. Thanks, and that's all.

2. Don't be a loot Pi+¦ata.

The gank made a profit of 400M and took less than 5 minutes. Even split between 8 ganker pilots that is 50M each for 5 minutes work, or effectively 600M per hour. There are very few activities in game that can make that kind of isk

Really just this.

An ATK Freighter/Indy is only marginally harder to gank then an APing one.

* You can't be bumped approaching the gate when you warp-to-zero.
* If someone bumps you as you are trying to leave a gate, they have to kill you within 1 minute if you logoff, and the gank squad probably isn't even on grid yet (gank squads don't often hang around gates).
* AFK gives potential gank squads a lot of time to organize (or to be awakened, or login) though gank-pros have alts all along major pipes.

2. Noobship+Civvy gun = 15min timer. More than long enough to bump you out of the 250km of a Concord spawn's insta-gib radius or to reset the spawn. (You want to bump the Freighter away from the gate anyway to avoid Gate guns if you're using Taloses).

Stop giving them ideas

Anyways, yes that could work, though I've never seen that tactic used. I have seen a lot of freighters AFK on approach getting bumped as the forces gather.

Also, not everyone has mastered the technique of bumping. When I jumped into 0.4 system by accident, a bumper gave-up because he couldn't change my course. It is rather surprising I didn't lose my ship.

I just want to become a hauler and just wondering, how often do hauler get killed? Assuming I'm on a Charon that is. And maybe you could share some tips on how not to get suicide ganked except for the usual of keeping your cargo low ISK. Thanks, and that's all.

1) Each gank takes a minimum of 15min (due to GCC).
2) You're excluding the time you have to wait before you get a target.

My point was ganking freighters can not only be done for profit, but can be more isk/hour than most other high sec activities. You are a GOON. If you have participated in these ganks you know this to be true. It can be verified by looking at the kill boards. I have seen many many freighter ganks where up to 10 billion in loot dropped. I have actually seen very few where less than 1B dropped. Although I do not know how big of a cut your corp/alliance takes of the top.

1. True, but they can just bump the juicy target on the other side of the gate while movinging your Taloses across.
2. Noobship+Civvy gun = 15min timer. More than long enough to bump you out of the 250km of a Concord spawn's insta-gib radius or to reset the spawn. (You want to bump the Freighter away from the gate anyway to avoid Gate guns if you're using Taloses).
3. Sure, but you can bump an atk freighter indefinitely too.

One thing not mentioned here is the safe log off. It takes 25 seconds of not being agressed & you don't have to worry about bumping. #2 has to time it right or have multiple noob ship alts while the DPSgets set up.

You cannot be safely logging off while:

You have aggression from players or NPCs

You cannot initiate a safe logoff while any of these things are happening, and if they happen once the countdown is running, it will be aborted.

Safe logoff cannot be initiated during the 15min logoff timer, and gaining said timer cancels the safe logoff.


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Safe_logoff

True but the point still stands. Even one gank per 15 minutes or even one per half hour is good isk, especially if you consider only ganking two freighters per hour you will be spending more time finding worthwhile targets, ganking ships that will give you far more profit. Not to mention gankers usually use alts, and you can have more than one alt to avoid the 15 minute GCC. I would say 500-600M/hour is doable ganking freighters, perhaps not likely, but doable. For sure you can do better than the 50-60M you would get from running missions.

My point was ganking freighters can not only be done for profit, but can be more isk/hour than most other high sec activities. You are a GOON. If you have participated in these ganks you know this to be true. It can be verified by looking at the kill boards. I have seen many many freighter ganks where up to 10 billion in loot dropped. I have actually seen very few where less than 1B dropped. Although I do not know how big of a cut your corp/alliance takes of the top.

But then again this could be used by the anti gankers to call for change. Why should Ganking be amount the most lucrative high sec activities? Considering it is based on players being stupid enough to undock with way to much value in there cargo hold, there is really not much CCP can do about it without breaking the game.

Yep so it's no longer possible to just bump a ship w/o them being agressed unless the pilot is unaware of the safe logoff.
Can you extend the 1 minute 'unsafe logoff' by continuously bunping the ship?

As usual, still never paid my ::tenbux::

Sure. If you count all the successful ganks of all the gank groups, assume that they're consistently making that income and ignore both the failed ganks (which don't show up on kbs) and the fact that each drop is split over 10+ people (or accounts if you want to go that direction) per squad and the fact that you're counting the results of multiple groups, you get 500-600m/hr.

Ok, So 500-600M was more an ideal max based on what I have seen dropped by freighters on the KB's rather than a sustainable income. I was speaking of what a single fleet could obtain though not multiple fleets.. 500M/hr for a 12 man fleet would only require 4 ganks per hour at 1.5B profit per gank. Say the gank fleet costs 800M after considering loot and salvage from the ganking ships, that only requires an average drop of 2.3B which is very common on the kill boards.

I don't know the exact doctrine the GOON gank squads use. But say you have a fleet of 12 including a scout or two. the scout scans freighters until it finds one WORTH ganking. This will not take long. There are loads of very dumb freighter pilots hauling loads worth several billion isk out of Jita constantly. the scout follows the freighter letting the fleet know its course. The fleet sets up for the gank in a appropriate 0.5-0.6 system. 5 minutes the gank is done. The scout then has 15 minutes to find the next high value target while the gank fleet waits out the GCC timer. And that is only if the gank fleet does not have other gank alts to switch too thus avoiding the 15 minute GCC.

So you should be able to pull off about 4 ganks per hour, most likely more using multiple alts to avoid waiting for GCC cool down. with 15 minutes to find the next target you will be hitting ships for maximum profit. conservatively say 1B profit per gank as you are probably hitting freighters with at least 4B in cargo. So at 1B profit per gank your fleet should make 4B per hour. Divided by 12 fleet members that is still Over 300M/hr per fleet member, and should be well attainable for an organized fleet not using multiple alts.

Even if you believe that to be still much higher than realistic, considering a mission runner typically makes 40-60M/hr. Even making 100M/hr ganking freighters should be easy, still making it one of the highest paying activities in high sec.

Yet with the amount of freighters on the kill boards that have dropped more than 2B in loot, a well organized gank squad, that does use multiple alts so you can gank the next target before GCC wears off. Combined with good competent scouts, and a little luck finding freighters with more than 4B in cargo, 500-600M/hr is certainly possible, even if not regularly attainable.

Or are you GOONS denying this only because you fear this high paying high sec activity will get nerfed, or freighters will get buffed, making this easy money go away?

Ok, So 500-600M was more an ideal max

Also consider maxing out mechanics, hull upgrades, spaceship command etc.

With a freighter having no module slots, that extra gain of agility and hitpoints from the core skills could mean the difference from life and death.

Always use warp to zero, and if you absolutelly have to carry some high value stuff, run a few test flights with a shuttle and try to map the best route, that is the route that requires less alligning between jumps even if it takes you extra jumps. You may find that warping to a sun/planet and warping from there to the gate can break your allign time by doing half the turn to get to the planet/sun and the other half to get to th gate. This will cut down the time you're sat around as a sitting duck.

I did some statistics on Freighter Ganks in Uedama last month...

There were 50 ganks between the 3-31rst of March. 48 seemed to be suicide ganks. 4 were ganked empty (due to bad standings with goons), 4 were ganked because they had double-wrapped packages, 4 were ganked with a cargo between 0.4-3b isk.

In general, your chances of getting ganked are very slim... and if you carry under 1b isk in cargo, your chances are extremely slim (i.e.you'll have a better chance of being struck by lightening!).

With this in mind, there are a few points I suggest above and beyond the "don't be a loot pinata" rule. If you are carry a blingy load, the options below help reduce your risks:

A.) The safest means when carrying valuable cargo is to use a web-to-warp scout. You need to be traveling at 75% of max velocity to enter warp, and webbing your ship instantly reduces it's max velocity, but doesn't instantly reduce your max speed. Using 60% webs (t2 or meta 4 or various faction), 2 webs will reduce the max velocity of a freighter from ~100 m/s to ~19 m/s, and 13 m/s with 3 webs. 75% of this speed is 10 m/s, which takes only a few seconds to achieve. Carefully timing the webs allows you typically enter warp before anyone can bump you... but can be inhibited by a suicide tackler.

B.) Another method is to enter suicide gank systems in an unexpected manner. For example, if you're traveling to Amarr from Jita, you generally go through Niarja. The autopilot typically has you travel Amar -> Ashab -> Madirmilire -> Niarja. Don't jump directly from Madirmilire to Niarja... but instead go Madirmilire -> Bahroma -> Niarja. You could still get ganked in Niarja, but usually scouts don't "follow" your progress (yet), so they will generally be setup on the Madirmilire gate rather than the Bahroma gate in Niarja, Which allows you to bypass their suicide camp.

C.) Another method to use is to dock up prior to entering a suicide gank system. For example, if you're traveling jita to amarr through Niarja, set your destination to Kaaputenen and dock up there for 15 minutes or so. In general, your ship's assets are scanned earlier in the pipe so suicide gankers have time to prep an attack. They generally gank in 0.5 systems, as concord takes the longest to respond in these systems. By taking the break, they may assume you dropped off goods, or took a different route... and may write you off as a target. The longer the break, the more effective this technique works... and if truly AFK hauling (while at work, or asleep), breaking the trip into 2 parts (Part 1: Amarr -> Madirmilire, dock up/log off. Part 2: Log on, manually fly through Niarja, Autopilot to Jita), you're unlikely to be a target as no-one will have recently pre-scanned you prior to entering Niarja.

A number of the ganks along the Niarja corridor happen in Madirmilire.

If you see someone yellow boxing you at a jump gate, go park your ship in a station for a while as they've scanned your cargo and will gank you if they like the value.

So now the problem is that I kinda lost interest in playing the game, basically starting all over again. I mean what's the point spending hours and hours playing when you can loose everything in a second. What's the point being in highsec when police doesn't work anyway? Sure I know now, I won't ever haul expensive cargo in a fragile can but what hard lesson comes next? I am scared to go mining with my retriever or buy even more expensive ship, if I can loose it in highsec. I guess this game is not for me :-\

What's the point being in highsec when police doesn't work anyway?

Always use warp to zero, and if you absolutelly have to carry some high value stuff, run a few test flights with a shuttle and try to map the best route, that is the route that requires less alligning between jumps even if it takes you extra jumps. You may find that warping to a sun/planet and warping from there to the gate can break your allign time by doing half the turn to get to the planet/sun and the other half to get to th gate. This will cut down the time you're sat around as a sitting duck.

Hi, I'm relatively new player and I got ganked today for my first time. And it was really painful.

Around a month ago I started as a trader doing stationtrading in Amarr, while doing some occasional small 200m isk max shipments from Jita. I earned little bit over one billion isk this way. And for me it was A LOT. I started to be quite good at it, doing spreadsheets and stuff. Today I did extensive market research figuring what would be most profitable to ship from Jita and sell in Amarr. It took me a while and I compiled list of very profitable stuff and went to buy it in my bestower. I arrived in Jita and bought 1 billion isk worth of items. All the money that I earned by trading so far.
I knew that something like suicide ganking exists but I didn't know how it works or how fast it is. I didnt have a clue that I cant stand a chance in untanked hauler. I thought that I manage to get away if I'm in high sec. Would I even have a chance if i put some hardeners on it? I have no clue. Well long story short I got popped instantly right after entering system 2 jumps before Amarr. I learned the hard way. All the effort and my free time invested gone in a split of an second.

So now the problem is that I kinda lost interest in playing the game, basically starting all over again. I mean what's the point spending hours and hours playing when you can loose everything in a second. What's the point being in highsec when police doesn't work anyway? Sure I know now, I won't ever haul expensive cargo in a fragile can but what hard lesson comes next? I am scared to go mining with my retriever or buy even more expensive ship, if I can loose it in highsec. I guess this game is not for me :-\

Fly safe, ZC.

Stop giving out false information. It doesnt matter if your ship is already facing the object you are warping to or has to turn 180 degrees. Both ways take just as long to start warping. This is why you always see freighters initiate warp while they have not fully alinged yet. they reached warp speed faster then they were able to turn.

So now the problem is that I kinda lost interest in playing the game, basically starting all over again. I mean what's the point spending hours and hours playing when you can loose everything in a second.

For extra fun when you are watching TV or just afk for the day. Take a fully insured Indy equiped with a bunch of cheap buffer tanking mods (best not to fit too smart even if it's) with a couple of double wrapped items (for bonus points add in some random really cheap sleeper loot) , autopilot the route jita -> Amarr -> Dodixie and so on. If you are lucky someone will decide you have phat lewt, and blow you up. In which case you collect your insurance pay out, and sell off your killrights for a tidy profit. The most amusing thing is the ganker will generally end up buying off the kill rights with an alt....

or they're already -10 and don't give a ****.

So now the problem is that I kinda lost interest in playing the game, basically starting all over again. I mean what's the point spending hours and hours playing when you can loose everything in a second. What's the point being in highsec when police doesn't work anyway? Sure I know now, I won't ever haul expensive cargo in a fragile can but what hard lesson comes next? I am scared to go mining with my retriever or buy even more expensive ship, if I can loose it in highsec. I guess this game is not for me :-\

On a different note, apparently in my 7 years on/off this game I have never heard of "double wrapping" but I can only assume it means putting a secure container in your hold to put the valuables in?

I do this with all my standard ships (not my Freighter) but it's to allow a tiny bit more cargo space, not to confuse players as to it's contents, maybe I should re-think my approach.

Putting the items into containers and then courier contracting the containers. Plastic wrap of contract + container = double-wrap

You are better-off in an un-scanable Blockade Runner. [I moved 7 billion ISK out of Jita in an alt's Crane earlier this evening.]

You were still better off back when it was a scannable blockade runner. (yea I'm still bitter about the change).

Not so often if you know simple rules :

NO PLASTIC WRAPS!
Don't carry on your hauler more than 1.5x times ISK needed for ships to gank you.
Don't fly to low/null.
Don't haul faction stuff.
Don't fly if you are in militia.
Don't fly if you are at WAR.
Don't fly if you have active KR ( unless you making isk on this)
Don't fly if you have 'new' people in your (non npc) corp :P


And now something you should have.
All EHP skills armor/structure/shield
Passive resistance skills ( hmm they don't require items ?)
Passive tank implants (correct one, don't put shield implant if you fly orca)
If you fly orca Reinforced bulkheads II and damage control in low is a must!


So simple :)
And it applies - to all industrial / PVE ships :)

Also, check the ships and modules forum for freighter fits to maximize EHP.