Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Takeaway: Despite player protests and a public apology from the CEO, Eve Online's virtual goods launch was by no means an unmitigated failure. CCP learned a lot about what works and what doesn't and is looking to implement those lessons into its next microtransaction effort, next year's PS3-exclusive Dust 514.

Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Reading through the original article, my concern is regarding this:



After all the mess with the wh0re st0re, CCP still obviously doesn't get it. Yup... EVE has an expiration date.

I can only facepalm to the way they guy missinterpets that data.

The monocle only sold well to trolls with bots. At the cost of a huge section of the user base. It only sold to people who wanted to troll. It sold well for all the wrong reasons. The reasons that cost them more then they will ever get back.


Did CCP not hire anyone that had experience with MTs? It seems like they didnt and just made wild assumptions rather then actually look at and study the friken concept. There was tons of on hand case study of MTs they could have looked at to get a real grounded concept of how MTs are supposed to work.

They still have their heads up their arse's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMBeLrZoyw
^ccp staff watch this vid.

not necessarily... maybe aurum can be used to buy stuff IRL. like the eve books or the apoc model.

50000 aurum for model of apoc? yes please.

Cockerill noted that one major concern from players was the idea that the changes were the beginning of a slippery slope, and that the game would change from one where skill and friends decided victory to one where money was the deciding factor. But as Cockerill discussed, PLEX already touched on that issue because players had been using it to finance their operations. Some players poured thousands of dollars into it but were still defeated by more-skilled players. Likewise, the team believed that Aurum, like PLEX, wouldn't change things in-game.

It doesn't change anything for them to "whom" they sell the monocles.
They sold them, and they are happy with it.
Success !

Besides, having trolls as marketing audience makes perfect sense too !


Also, who's that Cockerill they are talking about ?
Isn't **** a banned word ?



I've never heard of him, can somebody help me out ?

It all depends on what money you make, I used to think that monacle was expensive but not any longer. It would be easy to buy 4 plex and trade it for AUR then buy it.

The NEX store has potential for great things if done in the right way.

I am all for cheap items and luxury items just like in real life. Some can afford, some cant.

Hey guys,

It was me that gave the talk at GDC that is being referred to in the quoted articles and I wanted to try and clarify CCP's plans on new uses for AUR.

There are currently no plans to introduce new uses for AUR in EVE aside from ship skins.

As Hilmar said in his blog and I reiterated in my GDC presentation, the EVE Development team understand that we made mistakes in the rollout of virtual items into EVE. We know that this means a lot to you so before making any kind of significant change to the implementation of virtual item sales or the uses of AUR we will consult with the CSM and the rest of the EVE community at the planning stage.

They still don't get it.
It's not about the price or the clothes for characters instead of ships.

It's about the fact that we pay a subscription each month (an expensive one compared to other MMOs, I might add) and we feel that we deserve anything they develop for free. If they use their employees, time or money to develop something for the game, it should be free or more exactly: it should be granted by the monthly fee.

Most players do not just feel like they are paying to play a game, they feel like they are also investing money in Eve. They pay CCP in the hopes of seeing the game improve and accomplish it's full potential. When CCP makes us pay a subscription AND for new content, they don't just make us pay twice, they are also telling us "Thanks for your investment. Now pay us some more to get access to the result of that investment".

It's like renting a car and having to pay extra for a seatbelt. It's like a company taking money from investors and then telling them "your investment allows you to buy the products we make".

This is the third or fourth official apology from CCP and they still don't get it.

Oh and by the way - this new path CCP is taking (making players pay for new content) so far has made them lose more players than they have earned. Not only has this caused players to quit Eve, it has also ruined the company's and the game's reputation among potential future players. Personally the only reason I'm still playing is because I haven't given up all hope yet and I can say the same of most players I know.

I thought Aurum was going to be what we used to pay Dust soldiers to do things for us or to buy them things when they are fighting?

What I'd like to ask you CCP Caedmon is just when the ability to choose different skins for our spaceships in Eve Online changed from being a piece of nice to have core content that would hopefully lead to corporate and alliance logos on our vessels, to becoming "vanity" and thus valid material to deliver through a company store delivery mechanism inside an already subscription-based game?

Why shouldn't the ability to customize and sell paint schemes for our spaceships in Eve Online be a player profession that works within the normal market mechanics?

Im still having massive difficulty is understanding what all the crying is really about. Dont want Nex stuff? Dont buy it. Do want Nex stuff but have no RL money? PVE some isk, buy plex, exchange for AUR. Want Nex stuff, dont want to PVE but have RL money? Buy plex, swap it for Aur.

It REALLY changes nothing. PLEX is altready here, its already being used by the rich kids to buy their nightmares, machariels and Supers, RM IS ALREADY USED TO BUY EXPENSIVE BATTLE WINNING STUFF. Aurum wont change anything, its merely another way of trading, you can use in game or out of game money to buy AUR. Just like you can with PLEX.

Hey guys,

It was me that gave the talk at GDC that is being referred to in the quoted articles and I wanted to try and clarify CCP's plans on new uses for AUR.

There are currently no plans to introduce new uses for AUR in EVE aside from ship skins.

As Hilmar said in his blog and I reiterated in my GDC presentation, the EVE Development team understand that we made mistakes in the rollout of virtual items into EVE. We know that this means a lot to you so before making any kind of significant change to the implementation of virtual item sales or the uses of AUR we will consult with the CSM and the rest of the EVE community at the planning stage.

The article implies that you think the problem was a lack of pretty pony content and too expensive pretty pony content. The problem is that your vision of the future of eve simply isn't what players want. You learned the wrong lessons, and next time I won't be rioting and hoping for change -- I'll be gone.

Im still having massive difficulty is understanding what all the crying is really about. Dont want Nex stuff? Dont buy it. Do want Nex stuff but have no RL money? PVE some isk, buy plex, exchange for AUR. Want Nex stuff, dont want to PVE but have RL money? Buy plex, swap it for Aur.

It REALLY changes nothing. PLEX is altready here, its already being used by the rich kids to buy their nightmares, machariels and Supers, RM IS ALREADY USED TO BUY EXPENSIVE BATTLE WINNING STUFF. Aurum wont change anything, its merely another way of trading, you can use in game or out of game money to buy AUR. Just like you can with PLEX.

Hey guys,

It was me that gave the talk at GDC that is being referred to in the quoted articles and I wanted to try and clarify CCP's plans on new uses for AUR.

There are currently no plans to introduce new uses for AUR in EVE aside from ship skins.

As Hilmar said in his blog and I reiterated in my GDC presentation, the EVE Development team understand that we made mistakes in the rollout of virtual items into EVE. We know that this means a lot to you so before making any kind of significant change to the implementation of virtual item sales or the uses of AUR we will consult with the CSM and the rest of the EVE community at the planning stage.

I would think a simple solution to this would be the use of Aurum buys a bpc of said item which can then be turned over to someone to manufacture. Like instead of buying a paint skin there is instead a bpc to build said battleship with the paint scheme. Maybe make material for clothing, etc come from PI which would expand the uses for the goods from that. I just think it could be done in a way that both CCP and the manufacturing sector both can get their pieces of the pie.

It changes the method used to bring the content into the game.

Without NeX then things like clothing/ship skins etc would be seeded as blueprints to appropriate in-game npc corporations that people would buy and build by collecting the appropriate materials from missioning/exploration/reactions/PI etc etc. Basically this stuff would make more things for industrialists and pve orientated players to do and enjoy. It gets players in space doing stuff, using the tools the sandbox has provided them and providing competition and challenge (and targets) for other players. It can also make rare (hard to find and build) items truely rare because they are hard to find.

With NeX its just there in a nasty little interface that cuts out the enjoyment of all of the above and cheapens the Eve sandbox. Nothing is truly rare or "prestigious" because nothing actually takes any effort. I make -ú40-50 pound an hour in my day job. Isn't eve cheapened for me when I can click/buy ANYTHING in the NeX store rather than needing engage in some gameplay for it?

That is the difference between NeX and Plex.

Maybe you don't want to understand!

The nightmares and machariels and supers you are referring ares sold on the market in EvE and is the result of other players activity (grinding LP, trading, hauling, manufacturing, refining, inventing and fighting for resources with combat ships in null and with trade orders on the various regional markest in EvE). Try to imagine if these ships (and everything else) in EvE instead was created out of thin air and sold in a NeX-shop near you.

What would become of EvE ?

I would think a simple solution to this would be the use of Aurum buys a bpc of said item which can then be turned over to someone to manufacture. Like instead of buying a paint skin there is instead a bpc to build said battleship with the paint scheme. Maybe make material for clothing, etc come from PI which would expand the uses for the goods from that. I just think it could be done in a way that both CCP and the manufacturing sector both can get their pieces of the pie.

What I don't understand is this mistaken impression that CCP hasn't said anything about Aurum and NeX items.

They have. Repeatedly.

They've already said (on mutiple fronts) that the NeX is never going to be used to give players an 'edge'. They're leaving it solely for vanity items that have no effect on gameplay.

No, I dont agree simply becaus eof what you say, you earn enough money in RL that if you chose to do so you could buy enough plex to simply buy it outright if you wanted to.

I dont see clothes manufacturing as something that would A: help the games immersion or B: be somethign that immortal multi billion isk spaceship captains would engage in.

Its clothes, and paint jobs, its the kind of stuff that ordinary run of the mill people would do, and sell to everyone. So yes, tehre should be stuff that is literally just available to buy not produce otherwise it means that capsuleers are literally the only people in Eve, having to do everything themselves. Thats the in game way of seeing it.

The sky isn't falling. Relax. Take a breath.

I do not buy this line that "vanity" is somehow not a gameplay advantage. And I think many people (including the current CSM) have done a profound disservice to the player base by allowing CCP off the hook on this issue.

I thought Aurum was going to be what we used to pay Dust soldiers to do things for us or to buy them things when they are fighting?

Hey guys,

It was me that gave the talk at GDC that is being referred to in the quoted articles and I wanted to try and clarify CCP's plans on new uses for AUR.

There are currently no plans to introduce new uses for AUR in EVE aside from ship skins.

As Hilmar said in his blog and I reiterated in my GDC presentation, the EVE Development team understand that we made mistakes in the rollout of virtual items into EVE. We know that this means a lot to you so before making any kind of significant change to the implementation of virtual item sales or the uses of AUR we will consult with the CSM and the rest of the EVE community at the planning stage.

Hey guys,

It was me that gave the talk at GDC that is being referred to in the quoted articles and I wanted to try and clarify CCP's plans on new uses for AUR.

There are currently no plans to introduce new uses for AUR in EVE aside from ship skins.

As Hilmar said in his blog and I reiterated in my GDC presentation, the EVE Development team understand that we made mistakes in the rollout of virtual items into EVE. We know that this means a lot to you so before making any kind of significant change to the implementation of virtual item sales or the uses of AUR we will consult with the CSM and the rest of the EVE community at the planning stage.

ISK is the primary currency for Dust. AUR is the currency that is given in exchange for real currency. Items can be purchased with either currency, but AUR is the obvious shortcut for those who don't want to work for their ISK. It's pretty similar to the whole PLEX exchange thing that's currently going on.

Stupid CCP making stupid connections between the two games like they said they were going to.

EVEN stupider CCP for allowing market factors to determine the exchange rates between RL cash and ingame cash (for both games) but not making a direct hard link between the value in BOTH games.



On an unrelated note: I wish to express my thanks to all the RAGE (or is that crying....cant tell) in this thread. Many laughs have been had, which has alleviated the effects of a stressful day here at work. KEEP POASTING!

Vanity items -- items that do not give a skill bonus or alter the playing ability of a player. Paying ten billion ISK for an ad doesn't suddenly make your pilots fly faster or better. Paying for a fleet logo doesn't somehow make your ship 'indestructible', nor does it make your ship any easier to shoot. And buying a pair of boots won't make your ship fly any faster, regardless of price.

The NeX is doing what it was designed to do: it allows pilots to buy a cosmetic appliance, or some better clothes, without giving one player an advantage over another. I mean, I suppose it could be concievable that we might shoot our old boots from our missile launchers (Nike at .5 c, anyone?) but I can hardly see how being better-dressed than someone else confers some kind of gameplay advantage.

And this is exactly the kind of slippery slope I am referring too in my long post on NeX and Incarna here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=20208&find=unread

What I'd like to ask you CCP Caedmon is just when the ability to choose different skins for our spaceships in Eve Online changed from being a piece of nice to have core content that would hopefully lead to corporate and alliance logos on our vessels, to becoming "vanity" and thus valid material to deliver through a company store delivery mechanism inside an already subscription-based game?

Why shouldn't the ability to customize and sell paint schemes for our spaceships in Eve Online be a player profession that works within the normal market mechanics?

CCP still fails to learn that,

An ounce a piece from the many outweighs the pound a piece from the few.

Drop the NeX store prices to a trivial amount ($2-3 USD per item) and once you fully open Incarna you will inundated with purchases, you could be selling thousands of pairs of trousers and shirts instead of a few dozen monocles.

Having alliance logos on your ships will allow you to publicise and recruit for your alliance better than a rival that has not paid for the feature. I don't see how this is NOT a gameplay advantage.

By your argument political advertising in the real world is "vanity" and has no impact on who gets elected.

Seriously.

Having alliance logos on your ships will allow you to publicise and recruit for your alliance better than a rival that has not paid for the feature. I don't see how this is NOT a gameplay advantage.

By your argument political advertising in the real world is "vanity" and has no impact on who gets elected.

Seriously.

Why shouldn't the ability to customize and sell paint schemes for our spaceships in Eve Online be a player profession that works within the normal market mechanics?

This is kind of silly, how many people do you know that sit there and stare at other people's ships to see pretty textures? There is no advantage in mechanics by having silly skin customization. If a stupid logo is that important to people, then most people wouldn't have joined half the corps and alliances they do with the absurd names of some of them.

Meh. To be somewhat fair to Dust... it's a free-to-play game. There's going to be an initial cost, which is probably going to be around $20, but that gets exchanged to Aurum so you're introduced to the microtransaction element immediately. Since Dust is going to be a skill based game, I don't think there's much to worry about regarding pay-to-win. At least I hope not. We don't know much about the game to begin with so... yeah.

Having alliance logos on your ships will allow you to publicise and recruit for your alliance better than a rival that has not paid for the feature. I don't see how this is NOT a gameplay advantage.

Having alliance logos on your ships will allow you to publicise and recruit for your alliance better than a rival that has not paid for the feature. I don't see how this is NOT a gameplay advantage.

You give people too much credit. "Nice, I'll get a logo on my ship if I join X over Y" is good enough for a huge number of people.

What they are planning with skins is already being done in most subscription based MMOs on the market, and it works just fine, actually most MMOs take it even further than just skins and it works out great. There's no reason CCP shouldn't travel down this particular path, and it would be a bad business decision to try and placate those who don't want to spend $$ on vanity items.

You're misinterpreting the use of the term 'gameplay advantage'. I refer specifically to advantages gained by skills or shiptypes that can only be gained by NeX purchases.

But, to address your point:

Of course a corp that has better recruiting techniques gets a bigger market share -- that's the way any advertising campaign works, in EVE or the Real World.

But those advertisments don't somehow make your guns fire faster, or your ship fly faster, or get you more capable pilots. It's not going to magically grant domination over New Eden. All they're going to do is get peope interested in your corp.

Hell, I can put together a half-decent recruit video in two days using Windows Movie Maker, FRAPS and a microphone, should I choose -- and I won't even spend an ISK to do it. Will I get tons of recruits? Possibly not. Teraa Matar is a fairly new corp, after all, and we're not particularly well-known.

Does someone with a six-hundred dollar budget and an expensive editing suite have an advantage over me in terms of recuiting? You bet your biffy they do. But that's the way it's always been in advertising. Having a logo on your ship makes you more visible, but it doesn't stop someone else from raising the ISK or Aurum to purchase a logo of their own, any more than putting, say, a McDonalds logo on a box makes it impossible for A&W to afford a box with a logo.

So what went wrong for CCP this summer?

They did things completely backwards which gave off an impression of something other than what they intended, and the whole stupid newsletter that got leaked got blown way out of proportion by a bunch of internet drama queens. With everything happening in the way it did, there was a giant meltdown...combination of bad luck, bad timing, poor planning and mentally unstable internet drama whores made a big mess.

It's still a really weak argument.
More than weak, it's just grasping at straws to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.

While I believe jade is side tracking this thread with the philosophical argument regarding what is actually an in game advantage, Eve Online in 0.0 works on the N < N+1 format. Anything that enables you to hit the add more ships to grid now button - is giving you an in game advantage.

Yes you can do it outside the game - does that make it alright for CCP to sanction it in the game?

The real question here is: Have CCP learned the lessons they need to, to ensure continued long term supply of subscriptions from their player base?

From my point of view the answer is: Not sure yet.

That's a rather unfair discrediting, don't you think? The basic axioms of the argument are that people are impulsive and that social attraction has substantial impact in drawing players into a corporation. If you pull in a few players whose presence is considered a positive addition on the grounds of having a pretty logo on your ship, the guys with the logo have purchased a social advantage that impacts subsequent game play.

It's hardly grasping at straws or for the sake of being contrary; it's an evaluation based on social psychology - or, in a more jaded point of view, "lol humans."

So ... same content, same delivery, but better messaging and corporate security (to prevent embarrassing leaks) and everything would have been peachy?

No it's a silly argument and grasping at straws. If you can't get people without silly little textures on your ships then you obviously are not offering what really matters, like active members when recruits are playing, adequate resources for members etc. A silly little texture is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

If someone is going to base that decision on whether or not to join your corp on a silly little picture on a ship they probably won't be looking at much once they know what they're doing then they aren't worth recruiting to begin with. The attitude of someone like that would be more detrimental to your corporation than what it's worth.

This argument boils down to "Nope, you're wrong because textures don't matter, and if you think it has any impact, your corporation isn't good enough or the people aren't worth having."

I don't agree with this position, because silly things and entertainment value add up; a lot of corporations are joined for the charisma of its members; a charismatic emblem that you can wear is a powerful psychological tool too. Making it only available to people who pay extra will constitute an advantage because the outside impression that organization offers will be stronger than it will be for the corporations that do not have a logo on their own ships.

I like the idea of the feature, but it's not right to offer it exclusively to people who shell out for it in the NEX or other MT store activities.

Actually you're not understanding what I'm saying, I'm saying the recruit isn't good enough if that's all they care about, and if you have trouble getting recruits, it's not the texture that is the problem, it's the way you're running your corp. A little picture isn't going to make you magically more likable.

A little picture constitutes advertising; while people have gradually become numb to it, advertising your corporation on your hull is a novelty. Humans, being the stimuli driven beings that we are, will be affected by it, even if it doesn't sell the corporation entirely in and of itself. However, it will still have an impact on other player impressions. This is why it is not acceptable to restrict the availability of corporation logos on hulls to people who pay Aurum for them.

I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing it, and as far as I'm concerned it's a "sky is falling" argument for argument's sake.
Most people are just going to ignore this stuff, just like they ignore CQ really. How many people join corps just because someone anchored some can art at a gate with recruitment messages? Or because their avatars are just so kewl? Or their corp logo is just that badass to begin with? (the biggest point is the already in-game corp logos, you can't seriously tell me that that is a huge factor in getting recruits...)

Have you played any subscription based MMOs with microtransactions? It really does not make any difference in the game play in the long run. EverQuest II is a really good example of that. There are tons of people that don't ever spend station cash on anything and are perfectly happy not doing so.

Wait and see, and when it all of a sudden becomes a big deal then complain, until then it's really not worth complaining about.

No it's a silly argument and grasping at straws. If you can't get people without silly little textures on your ships then you obviously are not offering what really matters, like active members when recruits are playing, adequate resources for members etc. A silly little texture is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

If someone is going to base that decision on whether or not to join your corp on a silly little picture on a ship they probably won't be looking at much once they know what they're doing then they aren't worth recruiting to begin with. The attitude of someone like that would be more detrimental to your corporation than what it's worth.

They still don't get it.
It's not about the price or the clothes for characters instead of ships.

................

When CCP makes us pay a subscription AND for new content, they don't just make us pay twice, they are also telling us "Thanks for your investment. Now pay us some more to get access to the result of that investment".

To be fair Barakkus, you are assuming the average player has a clue what EVE is really like outside of NPC content and does not act like the sheep like breed that we really are. Therefore, you assume that the average player knows exactly the things they should look for in a 'quality' corp/alliance and will be able to look past the shinies.

That being said if a corp only provides the shinies and not the support they will not keep pilots. So in the end you are both correct on points within your specific arguments.


Slade

There are currently no plans to introduce new uses for AUR in EVE aside from ship skins.

So its like having a health club membership, and having to pay extra if you want an energy bar.

Or cable TV where you have to pay to see a recent movie.

Or a membership department store where not only do you have to pay the membership fee, but you got to pay for all the stuff you want.

Having both a subscription and paying extra for additional stuff is not an uncommon business model. The only question is: In the case of Eve Online is it a good business model.

A case where it was a bad business model: Disneyland use to charge for entering the park and extra for riding a ride. The most expensive rides required you buy an E-ticket. They gave that up for a single entry fee. But even so, they still charge extra for food and gifts.

It changes the method used to bring the content into the game.

Without NeX then things like clothing/ship skins etc would be seeded as blueprints to appropriate in-game npc corporations that people would buy and build by collecting the appropriate materials from missioning/exploration/reactions/PI etc etc. Basically this stuff would make more things for industrialists and pve orientated players to do and enjoy. It gets players in space doing stuff, using the tools the sandbox has provided them and providing competition and challenge (and targets) for other players. It can also make rare (hard to find and build) items truely rare because they are hard to find.

With NeX its just there in a nasty little interface that cuts out the enjoyment of all of the above and cheapens the Eve sandbox. Nothing is truly rare or "prestigious" because nothing actually takes any effort. I make -ú40-50 pound an hour in my day job. Isn't eve cheapened for me when I can click/buy ANYTHING in the NeX store rather than needing engage in some gameplay for it?

That is the difference between NeX and Plex.