Originally by: MrRookie

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Although I miss the pint where the Armageddon should outdamage the Mega the reason is simply because the Arma has on extra low slot to play with. On the other hand the Mega has that extra midslot (lol ) I belive that would be the argument of the devs. Besides you can fitt a launcher on the mega. (maybe a rocket launcher if you have enough cpu)

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Originally by: bundy bear

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Can anyone explain why a lvl 1 battleship outranges and out damages a lvl 2 battleship that is designed for raw dmg.

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Originally by: CCP Hammer

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This game was so much better back before people knew math.

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Having tried both, and inspite of being low-perception Intaki, I have decent skills for both Rail and Blasters I am left with a very simple question:
Why even bother fitting blasters (except for very controlled circumstances)?

I have observed a death ratio that is more than three times as high in ships fitted with blasters and I have seen no difference in kill ratio. This is aplied to general combat, and not controlled circumstances (unprepared target and a very accurate warp-in).

As Seleene said: I'd actually fit blasters on my Megathron if I actually gained something doing it, such as damage, which I don't. (Why? Because your modules will be centered around survival when blasters are fitted and that a 90% range decrease merit less than a 30% damage boost.)

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Originally by: Meridius

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Here's an idea.

Unnerf pulses and then nerf the geddon. The geddon is why pulses were nerfed in the first place

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Having tried both, and inspite of being low-perception Intaki, I have decent skills for both Rail and Blasters I am left with a very simple question:
Why even bother fitting blasters (except for very controlled circumstances)?

I have observed a death ratio that is more than three times as high in ships fitted with blasters and I have seen no difference in kill ratio. This is aplied to general combat, and not controlled circumstances (unprepared target and a very accurate warp-in).

As Seleene said: I'd actually fit blasters on my Megathron if I actually gained something doing it, such as damage, which I don't. (Why? Because your modules will be centered around survival when blasters are fitted and that a 90% range decrease merit less than a 30% damage boost.)

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Originally by: Bombaman

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Pulses already have been nerfed,

Its the Hybrids turn this time round isnt it :D

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"

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Originally by: W0lverine

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change geddons bonus from 5% to 3% rof

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Originally by: infused

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Originally by: W0lverine

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change geddons bonus from 5% to 3% rof

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Oh yes... that is going to hurt us so much

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Originally by: infused

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Originally by: W0lverine

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change geddons bonus from 5% to 3% rof

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Oh yes... that is going to hurt us so much

The geddon imo is only good at a close range gank, where a mega is good at close and very far damage dealing...

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Originally by: Fred0

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It's the geddon that's ****** up. A long range geddon will do upwards to 950 dps at 40k making a megabeam geddon the third most damaging bs after the megapulse geddon and blaster mega. It's simply horribly unbalanced in todays eve.

I would think that buffing the mega and tempest is not the way to go unless you all want even shorter battles. I was under the impression that everyone wanted longer battles and from that perspective a nerf of the geddon would be the right way to go.

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Originally by: Face Lifter

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Data shows that a gank mega has only slightly more damage than a gank geddon. However, the gank geddon has way more range compared to mega, the geddon is more versatile, more effective. So I would agree with those who want to increase damage of large blasters. Either that, or nerf damage mod stacking.

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Originally by: Dionysus Davinci

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Originally by: MrRookie

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Although I miss the pint where the Armageddon should outdamage the Mega the reason is simply because the Arma has on extra low slot to play with. On the other hand the Mega has that extra midslot (lol ) I belive that would be the argument of the devs. Besides you can fitt a launcher on the mega. (maybe a rocket launcher if you have enough cpu)

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It isn't just that, fit an Armageddon with Mega Pulses and you have a huge amount of grid and cpu left over.

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Originally by: The Clash

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why not nerf stackin dmg mods to hell and back .

longer battles not the boring 200 km and then skills matter more then now .

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Originally by: Fred0

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It's the geddon that's ****** up. A long range geddon will do upwards to 950 dps at 40k making a megabeam geddon the third most damaging bs after the megapulse geddon and blaster mega. It's simply horribly unbalanced in todays eve.

I would think that buffing the mega and tempest is not the way to go unless you all want even shorter battles. I was under the impression that everyone wanted longer battles and from that perspective a nerf of the geddon would be the right way to go.

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Originally by: Ice Foxy

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I like the geddon but it has its weeknesses, a geddon in gank mode has paperthin defences.

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Originally by: Kaeten

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Have to admit, the megapulse is a wieeee bit too storng.

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Originally by: Kaeten

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And btw everyone there has been a post stating the dps of both ships. The geddon outdamages the mega with 5% more dps or something like that plus the range...

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Originally by: mahhy

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I say the Mega has more "HP" overall, and is the more versatile ship being that it has more med slots.

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 21/07/2005 10:39:39
OH YOU SHUT UP ALREADY! MEGA PULSE ARE NOT OVERPOWERED!

I had to train surgical 5, large energy 5, and get tech 2 megapulse, so taht with 6 of them i could break the tank of the more powerfull npcs (1mill+) that orbit around the 40km!

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Originally by: Xanta

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 21/07/2005 10:39:39
OH YOU SHUT UP ALREADY! MEGA PULSE ARE NOT OVERPOWERED!

I had to train surgical 5, large energy 5, and get tech 2 megapulse, so taht with 6 of them i could break the tank of the more powerfull npcs (1mill+) that orbit around the 40km!

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i can't kill anything with blasters at 40k

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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I had to train surgical 5, large energy 5, and get tech 2 megapulse, so taht with 6 of them i could break the tank of the more powerfull npcs (1mill+) that orbit around the 40km!

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Originally by: Fred0

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Edited by: Fred0 on 21/07/2005 10:41:29

Originally by: mahhy

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I say the Mega has more "HP" overall, and is the more versatile ship being that it has more med slots.

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Right now you are bull****ting my good man. I suspect you fly amarr and try to be a moron. The versatility of being able to engage from 5k to 60k vastly outscores your hp and 1 med slot advantage. A gank blasterthron is dead in about 20 secs to a gank geddon in every unscouted situation.

Edit: It's not 5%, mahhy is right. It's about 1195 to 1197 dps at max skills and max gank. Mega is slightly ahead with slightly less conservative settings.

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Originally by: mahhy

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Secondly, you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about and yet you think you can effectively engage with MP from 5km up to 60? Dead wrong.[/Quote]

You'd win the engagement up to 60k for sure meeting a gank blasterthron. And you'd be very helpful in a fleet battle up to 60k. One small clarification I'm talking T2 MP ofcourse.

[Quote]Then you try and state that a gank blaster is dead to a gank geddon in every situation? Again, dead wrong. Do you ever actually PVP?

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Quote:

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Finally, go and figure out what the MP actually does for damage, as a turret, compared to Blasters. Then maybe people will start realizing if a change is needed, it needs to be the stacking penalty.

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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Originally by: Xanta

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 21/07/2005 10:39:39
OH YOU SHUT UP ALREADY! MEGA PULSE ARE NOT OVERPOWERED!

I had to train surgical 5, large energy 5, and get tech 2 megapulse, so taht with 6 of them i could break the tank of the more powerfull npcs (1mill+) that orbit around the 40km!

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i can't kill anything with blasters at 40k

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Thats cuz ur supose to use railguns (350mm), and btw, at 5K npc bs wont hit you!

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Originally by: mahhy

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And yes the "advantage" the Arma has is roughtl 0.3% extra damage, IF and only if you have BS level 5. What percentage extra HP does the mega have over the Arma? (I'd check myself except I can't get to the main Eve site / Itemdatabase)

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Originally by: Fred0

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All the time yes. And more succesfully than mass I would say.

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Originally by: Shirei

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And yes, I do fly one and enjoy the fact that I do:
- slightly more dps than a fully gank fitted autocannon Tempest (even if he uses the last 2 high slots on siege launchers, which kills any tank he may try to fit) at 3 times the range
- 33% more dps than a fully gank fitted Rail Megathron
- 68% more dps than a fully gank fitted 1400mm Tempest
- 125% more dps than a fully gank fitted 350mm Domi (you know, how about comparing tier 1 BS to tier 1 BS)
- more than 100% more dps than a fully gank fitted 1400mm Typhoon (including the damage done by the missiles, don't have exact figured for those yet though with the missile changes)

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Originally by: Shirei

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*snip*

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Originally by: Shirei

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Edited by: Shirei on 21/07/2005 11:04:34

Originally by: mahhy

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And yes the "advantage" the Arma has is roughtl 0.3% extra damage, IF and only if you have BS level 5. What percentage extra HP does the mega have over the Arma? (I'd check myself except I can't get to the main Eve site / Itemdatabase)

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At any range greater than 10k (read: in 90% of all PvP engagements), a Geddon so far outdamages a Blaster Mega it's not even funny.

I wouldn't call the Megapulse Geddon that incredibly imbalanced anymore though (altho the damage output is a bit silly), it's the Beam Gankageddon that is ridiculously overpowered because it has essentially the damage output of a close range gank ship - except at ~35-40k optimal with multi crystals.

And yes, I do fly one and enjoy the fact that I do:
- slightly more dps than a fully gank fitted autocannon Tempest (even if he uses the last 2 high slots on siege launchers, which kills any tank he may try to fit) at 3 times the range
- 33% more dps than a fully gank fitted Rail Megathron
- 68% more dps than a fully gank fitted 1400mm Tempest
- 125% more dps than a fully gank fitted 350mm Domi (you know, how about comparing tier 1 BS to tier 1 BS)
- more than 100% more dps than a fully gank fitted 1400mm Typhoon (including the damage done by the missiles, don't have exact figured for those yet though with the missile changes)

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Originally by: mahhy

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I'm also fairly certain its not possible to fit a rack of T2 Mega Beams on an Arma in full gank (i.e. 8 HS2), but I don't know if its possible to fit 7 425s on a Mega in full gank?

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Originally by: MrRookie

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the problem with increasing the tracking to much is that they will become to lethal vs frigs

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Originally by: Shirei

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- 33% more dps than a fully gank fitted Rail Megathron

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Originally by: Captain Rod

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USE 425 RAILS - it helps, better range and still decent damage. Train lots of gunnery skills, you know you want to. Stop looking for the best ship, train up 1 that you like and enjoy its differences!

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Originally by: mahhy

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Originally by: Kaeten

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And btw everyone there has been a post stating the dps of both ships. The geddon outdamages the mega with 5% more dps or something like that plus the range...

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Again, don't just regurgitate what various people say on these forums or in your corp chat.

Go do the math. Mega vs Arma, Neutrons versus MP, Electrons versu MP, etc, etc. Try different skill levels. Ammos. Number of damage mods.

Then come back and spout off about "5% more dps or something like that".

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Originally by: mahhy

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Originally by: Kaeten

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Have to admit, the megapulse is a wieeee bit too storng.

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You need to go do some math before stating things that are blatantly wrong.

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 21/07/2005 10:41:06
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 21/07/2005 10:39:39
OH YOU SHUT UP ALREADY! MEGA PULSE ARE NOT OVERPOWERED!

I had to train surgical 5, large energy 5, and get tech 2 megapulse, so taht with 6 of them i could break the tank of the more powerfull npcs (1mill+) that orbit around the 40km!

You see, the Apocalypse HAS NO DAMAGE BONUS, in fact, afaik, only 2 or 3 tech I amarr ships have damage or rof bonus to lasers! I have had my damage unecessarely nerfed already once on my megapulse due to the decrease in long range crystals damage, i dont need another one thanks!!

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Originally by: mahhy

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Originally by: Fred0

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All the time yes. And more succesfully than mass I would say.

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Any validity you might have had has now been thrown out the window.

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Originally by: LUKEC

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I'd like to see blaster's tracking and blaster's range(optimal & falloff of neutrons) on megapulses for just 1 week.

It might be very convincing for the hardcore amarrs.

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Originally by: Vee Bot

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heres a tip Kaeten, quote some-one and type your responce then copy the text and click back, and quote the next person type your stuff paste the last text, copy all of that, rinse and reapeat.. it hurts my eyes to see so many replys from the same person, as nice as your sig is.....

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Originally by: Kaeten

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Originally by: mahhy

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Originally by: Kaeten

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Have to admit, the megapulse is a wieeee bit too storng.

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You need to go do some math before stating things that are blatantly wrong.

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you need to read the forums sbit more before talking trash.

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Originally by: mahhy

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Originally by: Kaeten

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Originally by: mahhy

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Originally by: Kaeten

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Have to admit, the megapulse is a wieeee bit too storng.

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You need to go do some math before stating things that are blatantly wrong.

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you need to read the forums sbit more before talking trash.

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Mega Pulse 2 DPS: 0.45714
Neuron Blaster 2: 0.53333

The Mega Pulse itself is fine. You are wrong

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Originally by: Farjung

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Edited by: Farjung on 21/07/2005 11:50:10

Originally by: MrRookie

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the problem with increasing the tracking to much is that they will become to lethal vs frigs

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That's why I suggested only a 15% or so increase to tracking.

Right now, heavy ion blasters have no chance to hit a webbed frig that's orbitting at 2k or less (with MWD off ofc), so large blasters wouldn't be transformed into uber frig killers just by this change.

Or alternatively, increase base agility and speed by a factor of... 15%? across the board. Essentially what bugs me is that any battleship not using blasters/ac doesn't have to think about their maneuvering so much. It's essentially a case of lock, align, hit the F keys and warp if you look like you're going down. For a true close range ship (ie, not pulsegeddon), you've got to control your approach and orbit, mess with the MWD/AB just the right amount to get into an orbit that's not too close and not too far, and if you start to align to warp too soon then you may well throw away your only slim advantage of being harder to track by suddenly reducing your transversal when you start going in a straight line.

Everyone knows the trick of matching your alignment to the NPC's against some of the faster ones, to minimise transversal and improve the quality of your hits - it would be nice if in PvP that was necessary to some extent as well, rather than just being able to align to warp as soon as the engagement starts and still get good hits, as is the case for pulse/beam/rail/arty setups in BS v BS

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Originally by: MrRookie

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Originally by: Farjung

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Edited by: Farjung on 21/07/2005 11:50:10

Originally by: MrRookie

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the problem with increasing the tracking to much is that they will become to lethal vs frigs

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That's why I suggested only a 15% or so increase to tracking.

Right now, heavy ion blasters have no chance to hit a webbed frig that's orbitting at 2k or less (with MWD off ofc), so large blasters wouldn't be transformed into uber frig killers just by this change.

Or alternatively, increase base agility and speed by a factor of... 15%? across the board. Essentially what bugs me is that any battleship not using blasters/ac doesn't have to think about their maneuvering so much. It's essentially a case of lock, align, hit the F keys and warp if you look like you're going down. For a true close range ship (ie, not pulsegeddon), you've got to control your approach and orbit, mess with the MWD/AB just the right amount to get into an orbit that's not too close and not too far, and if you start to align to warp too soon then you may well throw away your only slim advantage of being harder to track by suddenly reducing your transversal when you start going in a straight line.

Everyone knows the trick of matching your alignment to the NPC's against some of the faster ones, to minimise transversal and improve the quality of your hits - it would be nice if in PvP that was necessary to some extent as well, rather than just being able to align to warp as soon as the engagement starts and still get good hits, as is the case for pulse/beam/rail/arty setups in BS v BS

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I`m not sure it would be a solution anyway. The reason the Arma barbeques the Mega is because of the bether optimal. The fight mostlikely starts out of the megas optimal range, and then the Mega has to rely on the falloff which reduces the damage. So the issue isnt the tracking but simply because the Arma outdamages the Mega at a greater range, which mostlikely cause the Mega to blow before it gets in range to benefit from its bether tracking.
It`s realy not a Arma vs Mega problem, its just the Arma thats silly . It should have a 5% optimal bonus instead maybe?

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Originally by: Kaeten

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dude did u include reload time? ding dong yep that's an extra 10 seconds to the mega.

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Originally by: MrRookie

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Originally by: Farjung

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Edited by: Farjung on 21/07/2005 11:50:10

Originally by: MrRookie

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the problem with increasing the tracking to much is that they will become to lethal vs frigs

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That's why I suggested only a 15% or so increase to tracking.

Right now, heavy ion blasters have no chance to hit a webbed frig that's orbitting at 2k or less (with MWD off ofc), so large blasters wouldn't be transformed into uber frig killers just by this change.

Or alternatively, increase base agility and speed by a factor of... 15%? across the board. Essentially what bugs me is that any battleship not using blasters/ac doesn't have to think about their maneuvering so much. It's essentially a case of lock, align, hit the F keys and warp if you look like you're going down. For a true close range ship (ie, not pulsegeddon), you've got to control your approach and orbit, mess with the MWD/AB just the right amount to get into an orbit that's not too close and not too far, and if you start to align to warp too soon then you may well throw away your only slim advantage of being harder to track by suddenly reducing your transversal when you start going in a straight line.

Everyone knows the trick of matching your alignment to the NPC's against some of the faster ones, to minimise transversal and improve the quality of your hits - it would be nice if in PvP that was necessary to some extent as well, rather than just being able to align to warp as soon as the engagement starts and still get good hits, as is the case for pulse/beam/rail/arty setups in BS v BS

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I`m not sure it would be a solution anyway. The reason the Arma barbeques the Mega is because of the bether optimal. The fight mostlikely starts out of the megas optimal range, and then the Mega has to rely on the falloff which reduces the damage. So the issue isnt the tracking but simply because the Arma outdamages the Mega at a greater range, which mostlikely cause the Mega to blow before it gets in range to benefit from its bether tracking.
It`s realy not a Arma vs Mega problem, its just the Arma thats silly . It should have a 5% optimal bonus instead maybe?

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Originally by: Farjung

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Originally by: MrRookie

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Originally by: Farjung

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Edited by: Farjung on 21/07/2005 11:50:10

Originally by: MrRookie

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the problem with increasing the tracking to much is that they will become to lethal vs frigs

---

That's why I suggested only a 15% or so increase to tracking.

Right now, heavy ion blasters have no chance to hit a webbed frig that's orbitting at 2k or less (with MWD off ofc), so large blasters wouldn't be transformed into uber frig killers just by this change.

Or alternatively, increase base agility and speed by a factor of... 15%? across the board. Essentially what bugs me is that any battleship not using blasters/ac doesn't have to think about their maneuvering so much. It's essentially a case of lock, align, hit the F keys and warp if you look like you're going down. For a true close range ship (ie, not pulsegeddon), you've got to control your approach and orbit, mess with the MWD/AB just the right amount to get into an orbit that's not too close and not too far, and if you start to align to warp too soon then you may well throw away your only slim advantage of being harder to track by suddenly reducing your transversal when you start going in a straight line.

Everyone knows the trick of matching your alignment to the NPC's against some of the faster ones, to minimise transversal and improve the quality of your hits - it would be nice if in PvP that was necessary to some extent as well, rather than just being able to align to warp as soon as the engagement starts and still get good hits, as is the case for pulse/beam/rail/arty setups in BS v BS

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I`m not sure it would be a solution anyway. The reason the Arma barbeques the Mega is because of the bether optimal. The fight mostlikely starts out of the megas optimal range, and then the Mega has to rely on the falloff which reduces the damage. So the issue isnt the tracking but simply because the Arma outdamages the Mega at a greater range, which mostlikely cause the Mega to blow before it gets in range to benefit from its bether tracking.
It`s realy not a Arma vs Mega problem, its just the Arma thats silly . It should have a 5% optimal bonus instead maybe?

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Well, boosting the range would help, but it would also make blasters pulse clones. I revise my earlier proposal where the pulse tracking wouldn't be affected, as to be honest, pulse has altogether too good tracking for its effective range. My ideal scenario would be: if fight starts at 20km, pulsegeddon spews out the damage until the mega gets within 10km, and then the damage drops off rapidly as the mega gets under 10km and starts orbitting. So, provided the mega could get survive long enough to get within 10km, it has a decent shot at winning, at least as long as the geddon doesn't have a web (and what geddon needs to fit web nowadays?). Currently the scenario is that the pulsegeddon will still be doing obscene amounts of damage when the mega is 5k away :\.

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Originally by: Dionysus Davinci

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A mid range gun, should not have the option of doing blaster/autocannon damage. The best way to solove this would be to increase the stacking penlity on damage mods.

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Originally by: Joan Smith

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leave geddons alone if u over 35km away there damge is bull****(ever heard of rails).

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Originally by: Joan Smith

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ganktempest with auto vs a gankgeddon (both t2 guns fited)
and tempest won with 20% hull seems balance to me

try ur self on test!

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Originally by: mahhy

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Edited by: mahhy on 21/07/2005 13:33:56If the stacking penalty was fixed, and I stuck a long range web on my arma (whats the longest range you can get?) I'd expect to have a decent chance of popping a blasterthron before it got to blaster range.

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Originally by: Loka

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Edited by: Loka on 21/07/2005 13:55:32
Edited by: Loka on 21/07/2005 13:54:35
mahhy, problem is, the more you increase the more you take away setups. I dont want to see everyone flying around in same setups. Sure atm we have a lot gank setups, but not everybody.

Another story. I love to fly Blasterthrons, but its not very efficient. Still i love flying in one. Let me tell you a nice fight.

Me in a Gankathron, "Pirate" in a Blasterthron. "Pirate" is warping to me and lands 20km away. "Me" is screaming and start locking. 3 sec later i got a lock and he started moving. "Me" gets him into structure and my drones finished him off. He managed to scratch my hull yes, but he lost.

Summery:
- Me was in a long range gank setup, fitted full 425mm II.
- He was in the so called most devastating closecombat ship with the most feared blasters.
- The fight started at 20km range, which i would call in his favor and almost perfect start for a Blasterthron
- He lost, even when he was in a closecombat ship and i was fitted with only long range weapons

Problem:
- Me can lock fast and start shooting much faster
- Ganklongrangesetup can do as much dmg as a "normal" non gank Blasterthron (2-3 dmg mod max)
- Me still hitting at 3km due to the fact i had 2 CPU II in med and low, even when not hitting as hard
- Blasters inmo cant hit that hard at the optimal distance, as they should - > Improve Tracking!!

Sure if the Thron would have warped 5 km nearer, i would have been toast. But why the hell should i fly a ship, which can only win, in 1 single perfect situation, when in the 99 other situation it will loose?

Imo, whenever you are in RANGE of a Blasterboat, you should only be able to scream "OMFG its a Blasterboat, iam toast". No "But", no "Probably", no "bad luck". Blaster or better all Closecombatships should be the "I win, whenever i reach 10km mark" ships. <- This should be your face, whenever you enter the attack perimeter of a Closecombat ship, with your long range ship. Period.

Nothing more to say. Till the i will continue, to gank with rails.

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Originally by: Loka

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Imo, whenever you are in RANGE of a Blasterboat, you should only be able to scream "OMFG its a Blasterboat, iam toast". No "But", no "Probably", no "bad luck". Blaster or better all Closecombatships should be the "I win, whenever i reach 10km mark" ships. <- This should be your face, whenever you enter the attack perimeter of a Closecombat ship, with your long range ship. Period.

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Originally by: DrunkenOne

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The damage mod stacking penalty is the only thing that needs changing, not the megapulse OR the geddon. If a geddon can only fit 3 damage mods, it suddenly isnt all that amazing anymore. And tbh post-nerf megapulse are pretty crappy on apocs which get no damage bonus, so they arent the problem. This would also make combat in eve last a littttttttttle longer which is always good IMO.

gank 4tl

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Originally by: Fred0

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Originally by: DrunkenOne

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The damage mod stacking penalty is the only thing that needs changing, not the megapulse OR the geddon. If a geddon can only fit 3 damage mods, it suddenly isnt all that amazing anymore. And tbh post-nerf megapulse are pretty crappy on apocs which get no damage bonus, so they arent the problem. This would also make combat in eve last a littttttttttle longer which is always good IMO.

gank 4tl

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A megapulse geddon is generally the best close range bs. The only tier 1 to even remotely factor in discussion and arguably better than any t2 bs. A megabeam geddon is the absolute same (see shirei's post).

The armageddon even beats it's own t2 bs. How much more obvious can it get what needs changing?

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Originally by: Naal Morno

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I barely killed their gankageddon...only because I went to extreme setup and had something like 4-5 heavy NOS to suck him dry before I die...

Strange thing was I barely killed him (and combat started in sub 10k range)!

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Originally by: Meridius

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Try fitting 7 neutrons and 7 dmg mods if it's a controlled situation and you get a covert ops warp in, the geddon will get owned.

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Originally by: Xanta

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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Originally by: Xanta

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 21/07/2005 10:39:39
OH YOU SHUT UP ALREADY! MEGA PULSE ARE NOT OVERPOWERED!

I had to train surgical 5, large energy 5, and get tech 2 megapulse, so taht with 6 of them i could break the tank of the more powerfull npcs (1mill+) that orbit around the 40km!

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i can't kill anything with blasters at 40k

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Thats cuz ur supose to use railguns (350mm), and btw, at 5K npc bs wont hit you!

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and your supposed to fit megabeams

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Originally by: Sun Ra

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People only waking uo to the fact the geddons rof bonus makes it uber when ive been saying that before the pulse nerf

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Originally by: Dionysus Davinci

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Originally by: Meridius

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Try fitting 7 neutrons and 7 dmg mods if it's a controlled situation and you get a covert ops warp in, the geddon will get owned.

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It is incrediably stupid that this is the only way you can ever win with a blasterthon though.

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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1) The myth that putting 8 heatsinks start giving more dmg % than the first is FALSE

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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1) The myth that putting 8 heatsinks start giving more dmg % than the first is FALSE

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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1) The myth that putting 8 heatsinks start giving more dmg % than the first is FALSE

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Originally by: Shirei

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The 8th heat sink gives more 'absolute' dps than the first, not more % dps

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: Dionysus Davinci

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Originally by: Meridius

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Try fitting 7 neutrons and 7 dmg mods if it's a controlled situation and you get a covert ops warp in, the geddon will get owned.

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It is incrediably stupid that this is the only way you can ever win with a blasterthon though.

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Who said that was the only way? Think a little bit, test **** out.

There are these fantastic things called tracking disruptors, they work better against lasers then they do against blasters/ac's.

Test **** out

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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Restrict a single damage mod to a ship.

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Originally by: Fred0

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I haven an even greater idea. Allow only 1 of each mod or gun on a ship. Nobody is allowed to specialize in anything and we all have relaxed setups where everyone can do everything atleast a little bit but noone is allowed to specialize in anything.

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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Restrict a single damage mod to a ship.

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Great idea.

Initial Apoc vs Mega fight after proposed change, 1 dmg mod each.

Apoc tanks Mega
Mega tanks Apoc

Wow, thats really fun...

Next run, now with NOS/Neuts

Apoc nos/neut slowly eats away Mega
Mega nos/neut slowly eats away Apoc

There would be no point in sniping, period. You would never kill anything unless in a fleet.

Might as well throw away the Zealot, it was designed to use stacked damage mods, heh.

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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And as for the Zealot, have you considered putting a tank on it? It's a cruiser, with 7 low slots and very high armor resists, so OF COURSE it was designed for multiple damage mods, wtf was I thinking?

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Originally by: Ifni

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Personally I like the gankgeddon, its fun to fly and its funny seeing people get fried in a few seconds. But I prefer to have a fight that relies on my personal skill at flying, which is why I feel Madcap hit it perfectly on the head.

By limiting a ship to 1 damage modifier it leaves the ship open to a whole variety of setups. Sniping is dull and boring, whilst they may be fun for a while, but its alot more fun when you are up in peoples faces actually risking the ship you are in.

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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Sniping? You really think this will do away with fleet battles that happen at 200km where everyone warps in and aligns for a safespot? Then it couldn't be done fast enough.

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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It's a cruiser, with 7 low slots and very high armor resists, so OF COURSE it was designed for multiple damage mods, wtf was I thinking?

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Originally by: Fred0

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End result will be forcing people to use setups that are not as refined.

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Originally by: Dionysus Davinci

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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1) The myth that putting 8 heatsinks start giving more dmg % than the first is FALSE

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Care to prove it via showing your math?

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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It's a shame that, by your words Fred0, specializing means flying a Gankageddon. It can do the things that are being stressed by you all here, and that's wtfdamage. Little bland don't you think?

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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As for the arguement on the tanking of Amarr HAC, they're nearly identical. Zealot can assume higher resists in all categories while maintaining 4 heavy pulse 2 and 2 med rep 2 with significantly more armor, and slightly less cap than the Sac while the Sacrilege allows for more firepower (2 missile hardpoints and drones) and a slightly less intense resistance in the armor.

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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And Meridius, as we see it, you attempted to rip us off. This topic is for ingame chat.

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Originally by: Fred0

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It's the one tier1 bs that wins over all t2 bs in damage output. It is unbalanced.

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Originally by: Dred 'Morte

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I already proved in another thread, the thing is, you will get ur own math that proves contrary, because, math can be made and understood in many ways.

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Originally by: Madcap Magician

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I agree that gank should be an option, but not all racial ships should have the same ability. You have the option to train different racial ships, and as particle blasters are said to be the most devastating gun...

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Quote:

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The mighty Armageddon class is the main warship of the Amarr Empire. Its heavy armaments and strong front are specially designed to crash into any battle like a juggernaut and deliver swift justice in the name of the Emperor.

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Originally by: Fred0

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I said can win in damage output. That a geddon has raw dps over every other ship ****s up risk vs reward in fleetbattles as it stands. And that it has it in the abundance it does is staggering.

Everything can be countered but that's hardly relevant in this thread. Don't mix jamming into this. That's all fine if it's what you want to do imho but it has **** all to do with a discussion on damage.

Oh and lmao at the ship descriptions. You've really run out of arguments if that's what youre quoting.

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Originally by: EVE Item Database

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The Typhoon class battleship has an unusually strong structural integrity for a Minmatar ship.

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Originally by: Ifni

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Originally by: EVE Item Database

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The Typhoon class battleship has an unusually strong structural integrity for a Minmatar ship.

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So... um... yea.

So does that mean we should hull tank the 'phoon now?

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Originally by: Ante

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Ok then how about some suggestions to nerf the geddon? Remove a turret? Remove a low slot?

With tier 1 battleships all except the geddon and typhoon have 1 less slot than the tier 2 battleship. Perhaps they should each lose one slot to bring them into line? If the geddon lost one slot of any type it would seem to be in line. Personally I'd like to see it lose a midslot which, while not addressing the damage problem, nerfs it in a way that geddons would become less able to fight on its own.

It would remain a huge damage doer but become fairly weak against many targets.

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: Fred0

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It's the one tier1 bs that wins over all t2 bs in damage output. It is unbalanced.

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Scorp can jamm more ships then any t2 bs. Domi can field more drones then any t2 bs. Nerf?

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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Scorp is made for ECM, it should beat out all others.
Dommy is made for Drones, it should beat out all others.

Armageddon is made for damage, its a tier 1 ship.
Megathron is made for damage, its a tier 2 ship.

The damage:range issue, is...well an issue.

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Originally by: mahhy

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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Scorp is made for ECM, it should beat out all others.
Dommy is made for Drones, it should beat out all others.

Armageddon is made for damage, its a tier 1 ship.
Megathron is made for damage, its a tier 2 ship.

The damage:range issue, is...well an issue.

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Well, Tier 1 vs. T2 has zero bearing on any discussion. Your Tier 2 BS can be beaten by a 4mill ISK cruiser, or a frigate/Inty in the right scenario, so its not much of an arguement.

What about a vamp-domi? They can take on any BS 1v1, and they can win. Same as a Scorp. I'm not sure I understand why those Tier 1s are allowed to destroy any Tier 2 BS while the Arma isn't?

The range issue is a little perplexing personally. Mega Beams on Arma are only a bit shoter range than 425s (and a good chunk less falloff) and yet on paper they are freakishly uber comparitively. I keep telling myself I must be missing something...

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Originally by: Ante

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Can't harbour any bias for either ship. If one of them is nerfed to be brought in line there's no reason the other shouldn't be. Not much of a problem with the typhoon anyway...

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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The point is, 2 ships, with the same role, fitted the same, the geddon is better than a mega. And im grumpy, because im specialized for a mega.

Im grumpy damnit!

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Originally by: Fred0

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Now wolverine, please go back and read the whole thread. Because you are starting this thread right over posting things that were refuted 3 pages back.

And the megathron was built as both a rail and blaster platform. That's why it gets bonus to both of those.

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Originally by: Fred0

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Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level.

Applies to both rails and blasters. Learn the ships. Learn the math. Then come back and argue.

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Originally by: Fred0

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Oh and no mahhy. I drove one of those geddons myself last night. It's an absolute beauty with 7 megabeams and 7 hs's. Oh and have a look on the killboards, alot of people know this and use this right now.

EDIT: I see that a few are thinking it's fine that the geddon has an absolute damage/range edge compared to all other bs. Now that is fine but there is not much point in us arguing about that because my beef is with the people who don't realise that the geddon is overpowered.

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Originally by: Fred0

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Oh but, I'll reiterate this. Tamper with the stacking penalty for sure. Increase HP's, sure. But restricting the use of mods is the worst way to go if you want this game to become more varied in setups.

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Originally by: DigitalCommunist

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On sisi everyone tanks to their fullest, with the best mods available. I'm pretty sure an apoc can tank a blasterthron forever, and I'm pretty sure an apoc can't hit the blasterthron enough, but it doesn't work like that.

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Originally by: Terradoct

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Edited by: Terradoct on 22/07/2005 08:51:37
the simple solution to this problem and problem with gank setups is:
DIVID dmg mod on two siparate mod - 1 increase dmg , but decreas ROF and 1 that increas ROF but decrease dmg.
same for sensor boosters, tracking comps, tracking enchasers, signal amplefires.

Every module SHOULD HAVE andvantege and disadvantage.

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Originally by: Terradoct

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Edited by: Terradoct on 22/07/2005 08:51:37
the simple solution to this problem and problem with gank setups is:
DIVID dmg mod on two siparate mod - 1 increase dmg , but decreas ROF and 1 that increas ROF but decrease dmg.
same for sensor boosters, tracking comps, tracking enchasers, signal amplefires.

Every module SHOULD HAVE andvantege and disadvantage.

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Originally by: W0lverine

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Originally by: Terradoct

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Edited by: Terradoct on 22/07/2005 08:51:37
the simple solution to this problem and problem with gank setups is:
DIVID dmg mod on two siparate mod - 1 increase dmg , but decreas ROF and 1 that increas ROF but decrease dmg.
same for sensor boosters, tracking comps, tracking enchasers, signal amplefires.

Every module SHOULD HAVE andvantege and disadvantage.

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and what would be the point of this?? lol, on one hand you increase damage by increasing DM mod, but on the other you take it away with rof decrease,, yay for new great modules!!!

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Originally by: W0lverine

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Originally by: Fred0

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Now wolverine, please go back and read the whole thread. Because you are starting this thread right over posting things that were refuted 3 pages back.

And the megathron was built as both a rail and blaster platform. That's why it gets bonus to both of those.

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and what bonus is for blasters?

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