If its not do you really want to keep mining it in highsec while the Goons are on their current campaign? I support them in what they are doing but I do not know how long this will last and how wide spread it will get.

It would be cool to see them keep this campaign going for a year or more, especially if they are willing on spending the isk to keep the hulks dying.

You really have no clue what you're talking about HUH?......If they remove all curenntly in hisec located ice into lowsec and 0.0 you can expect the market break through the roof and then collapse in a big bang followed by hundreds of hisec players leaving the game if not thousands of them.....if ice can't get mined anymore in hisec and keep the price in a somwhat tolerable and affordable range most the hisec POSes in hisec and also lowsec will get removed and construction research and much other stuff will come to a nearly complete halt.

Simply due to the fact Hisec research facilitys will get swamped and blocked more for months from a few keeping their jobs within the queue while the rest can suffer their soon forseeable financial dead.

If you really want this happen...or talking about the remove without having a idea what the consequences will be of this totally unneeded move you better should stay quite and go in a corner and get ashamed by your incompetence.

Well, removing ice from highsec would mean more income for the RMTers that control 0.0, the CSM, and possibly certain devs, so yeah, sooner or later it probably will be. However, one of the devs said that they were taking it off the table for now. It'll probably stay off the table until RMT income starts suffering.

Well, removing ice from highsec would mean more income for the RMTers that control 0.0, the CSM, and possibly certain devs, so yeah, sooner or later it probably will be. However, one of the devs said that they were taking it off the table for now. It'll probably stay off the table until RMT income starts suffering.

You really have no clue what you're talking about HUH?......If they remove all curenntly in hisec located ice into lowsec and 0.0 you can expect the market break through the roof and then collapse in a big bang followed by hundreds of hisec players leaving the game if not thousands of them.....if ice can't get mined anymore in hisec and keep the price in a somwhat tolerable and affordable range most the hisec POSes in hisec and also lowsec will get removed and construction research and much other stuff will come to a nearly complete halt.

Simply due to the fact Hisec research facilitys will get swamped and blocked more for months from a few keeping their jobs within the queue while the rest can suffer their soon forseeable financial dead.

If you really want this happen...or talking about the remove without having a idea what the consequences will be of this totally unneeded move you better should stay quite and go in a corner and get ashamed by your incompetence.

Go mine ice in low-sec or null.

Problem solved.

And get blown up by every moment i try it? No thanks......if the remove happens and peoples will get forced to lowsec or 0.0 you can watch my bum leaving outta the door unsubbing my account with others along and saying good bye to the F**ed up game that Eve has gotten lately brougth to the state by the Glourious and selfish CSM and CCP which is seemingly listen to them without remorse and fullfilling their wishes.

We'll see if CCP is really that stupid and kills his own game hisselfs or uses the few left braincells and stops the bullshit which is laying on the table in form from plans written up by the allready richest Allys in Eve just to f**k up the average player even more.

I am one carebear that would like to see this happen. Maybe it will be worth it to take a fleet out into lowsec and mine some ice under heavy protection. That sure as hell would be a lot more fun than sitting in high sec with bleeding eyes watching your cargo hold slowly fill with ice.

Oh please, in 7 years of playing this game it's never been easier for the high sec player than it is now. From a game design standpoint CCP can see that high sec is too easy, and 0.0 doesn't really pay off for the extra risk and work involved.

A true eve player welcomes change, embraces the new dynamics brought to the table, and profits from the new opportunities. Geez, what game are you playing?!

Don't whine, don't be a sheep, Adapt or Die.




Exactly.

lol, look at goons attacking my suggestion that there are RMTers on the CSM. Guilty much?

You Sir seems not gotten the point i wanted to bring up aside from the large impact Hiseciceremoving will have not only on infrastructure, market and economy it also will FORCE....i repeat me agein FORCE technically players to leave hisec to go to either lowsec or 0.0 to get what they need.....please understand there are peoples DOESN'T want to go there at all....they simply decided to stay in hisec cause of beeing saved before the stress low and 0.0 sec activity can cause....stress which if it really gets bad and hard kills every relaxing amount this game can and had for them.

Remember, some peoples are coming home from a stressfull day at work and loggin in to eve to have a bit relaxing activities here and enjoying their stay with some friends they have here as well....if this goes away....those players will go away ( leave ) as well and that Sir....is a promise which will happen if CCP is not finally ligthens up and starts to think a bit themselfes again.

The interesting bit is the fact that e.g. white glace is rising damn fast, whereas goons only interdict gallente ice mining atm (may have missed some events, as I'm not really actively playing atm).

Pure speculation? Dev info leaked? Who knows...

Oh please, in 7 years of playing this game it's never been easier for the high sec player than it is now. From a game design standpoint CCP can see that high sec is too easy, and 0.0 doesn't really pay off for the extra risk and work involved.

No one is forced to do anything.
If you were mining ice for profit in high sec, you can just as well start mining ore instead, it gives roughly the same income and experience.
If you were mining ice for your POS because you're too cheap to buy it then you will just have to buy it instead if you absolutely don't want to go to low sec. Buying fuel is ever so easy and safe. I would assume that if you run lvl 4 missions roughly as long as it would take you to mine the ice, you get enough money to buy it instead.

Two easy solutions; just use some imagination.

They have expanded their reach, it is now just not in Gallente space that they are paying out bounty's, you can get them in Caldari space now and soon Minimatari space. Could be just a matter of time before all of hisec miners are under attack.

and like 95% of highsec ice miners are bots

A lot of it from 0.0 alliance bots

nothing in 0.0 is mined because regular minerals are glutted thanks to the drone regions, so mining a/b/c/m ores in a hulk is less isk/hour than ratting, and isotope ice is a stupendously useless 15% better in 0.0 than highsec so obviously nobody touches that either

and like 95% of highsec ice miners are bots

Not sure where the number comes from but seems fair , but how much of that is to fuel 0.0 and how much fuels highsec POS's... Who actually needs the yardstick taken to them? Highsec bears or 0.0 alliances?

You Sir are the bot...everytime bringing up that thesis is just causing me to yawn louder and louder as often i hear this coming from one of you guys from Goons.

bringing up the number about saying 95% from ice miners are bots is just laughable if not idiotic at all....sure there are bots...but there are also plenty of players just staying quite in local and only talking with their friends in fleetchat or corpchat while ice harvesting.....and if you blow up one of them, the most of them also stay quite and just warping to the station and dock cause yelling and screaming and cursing at the gankers only fills their egos and many from the miners know about this fact.....and if you think this behauviour makes someone beeing a bot so you are wrong.

That said...i brougth it up a bit above, there are many players which come home from a stressfull day at work and just wanted nothing more then just mine / harvest and relax while chatting with their friends.

I have no idea how I'd go about determining who owns a bot, but I do know that if you wanted to bot and had access to 0.0 you'd make much more money running a ratting bot or something else a lot more profitable. 0.0 buys its fuel in jita, and does not mine ice: it's far better to rat for ten minutes and purchase ice with isk than mine for an hour.

LOL So you want to get your iceproduction spoiled by this remove yourselfs....cause i'm pretty sure it was YOUR Master CEO The Mittani who brougth the Hisec ice remove on the table and nobody else.

That's so ironic i'm apparently laughing my bum off cause of this idiotic move and more. Giving the idea to CCP to remove hisec ice and then telling your cheapest resource for Ice products IS currently hisec.......OMG how stupid is that?!

I have no idea how I'd go about determining who owns a bot, but I do know that if you wanted to bot and had access to 0.0 you'd make much more money running a ratting bot or something else a lot more profitable. 0.0 buys its fuel in jita, and does not mine ice: it's far better to rat for ten minutes and purchase ice with isk than mine for an hour.

if ice was moved to 0.0 only that'd be pretty rad we could hire worthless pubbies to mine then whip them when they don't make quota

of course, right now gallente ice fields are mostly bot-free as those have been driven out, but if you were to take a stack of brutixes to some other ice space and proceeded to announce in local who you were going to gank, orbiting them in a blockade runner at 500m, then ganking them, then repeating the process for hours on end the only people warping out would be the people without an orca bot who are warping to station (who will come right back)

Lol - I don't care as I haven't ice mined in years, but the whole point in ice mining as a human was having a couple of minimized clients running whilst playing something else - not reacting to anything is actually an indication of a real human doing it.

Gank them all the way - ice mining in hgh sec is a terrible mechanic, but having a bot Ice mining in high sec is a waste of CPU.

You really have no clue what you're talking about HUH?......If they remove all curenntly in hisec located ice into lowsec and 0.0 you can expect the market break through the roof and then collapse in a big bang followed by hundreds of hisec players leaving the game if not thousands of them.....if ice can't get mined anymore in hisec and keep the price in a somwhat tolerable and affordable range most the hisec POSes in hisec and also lowsec will get removed and construction research and much other stuff will come to a nearly complete halt.

Simply due to the fact Hisec research facilitys will get swamped and blocked more for months from a few keeping their jobs within the queue while the rest can suffer their soon forseeable financial dead.

If you really want this happen...or talking about the remove without having a idea what the consequences will be of this totally unneeded move you better should stay quite and go in a corner and get ashamed by your incompetence.

if ice was moved to 0.0 only that'd be pretty rad we could hire worthless pubbies to mine then whip them when they don't make quota

That's a whole lot of :words: to say "Wahhhh the Goons are ruining my game!!!"

for anyone who's not following we're leaning towards just making ice in empire non-infinite rather than removing it

As an Empire miner (Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres, Kernite) I make approx 50-60mil a day. Yes, I sit for 4-5hours in front of my pc listening to the hum of the strip miners. I currently have two toons, one is industry and one is combat (pvp/pve). etc etc etc

I'm not going to repost a large amount of text.

All I would like to say is - Well written Sir, very well said indeed. It worries me too and one certainly hopes that CCP is fully aware of the RMT going on.

Cheers.

if ice was moved to 0.0 only that'd be pretty rad we could hire worthless pubbies to mine then whip them when they don't make quota

As an Empire miner (Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres, Kernite) I make approx 50-60mil a day. Yes, I sit for 4-5hours in front of my pc listening to the hum of the strip miners. I currently have two toons, one is industry and one is combat (pvp/pve).

Sometimes I buy two PLEX to pay for my time, others, I pay good ol' fashion American $$. With two accounts at 14.95ea. and a $2.00 forgien transaction fee as well, I pay roughly $37 a month to play EVE. And I'm happy to do it, too. My wife, not so much.

Even with all the screaming and hollering about how broken the game is with nullsec sov mechanics or with the supercap issues, or even with the Goons trying to corner the blue ice market. I love this game. I love the community of it. For better or worse, I will always be here to play.

What does concern me, tho, is all this talk about real money transfers and bots. I don't pretend to know if those out in nullsec do use bots. I don't pretend to know that the Goons are the biggest user of bot programs. But, what I do know is that CCP has started a player driven organization called the Council of Stellar Management. The CSM was started as a way for the players to voice their concerns with CCP about game related issues. If the CSM is comprised mainly of players from the Goons, and the Goons are one of the largest, if not the defacto largest player base in the game, then its not hard to come to a conclusion that somewhere along the way the CSM has lost the voice of the players, and become the voice of the Goons.

On any other subject I wouldn't care less if the entire CSM was comprised of all Goons. But, with all this talk of moving more mining related stuff out of Empire space to nullsec, where the Goons control most of it anyways, then we are just putting more ISK into the Goons wallets. By itself, its nothing, and I could give two ***** about it. But, with all this talk about RMT's taking place out in nullsec, and CCP wanting to put more ISK into the Goons hands, or any other large alliance out in nullsec (Sorry Goonies, I'm just using you guys as an example), I have to begin to wonder if some sort of duplicity, whether intentional or not, on CCP's part isn't taking place.

If CCP is oblivious to the fact that quite possibly they are being taken advantage of for RMT's, then the best solution for them, so there is no question in anyones mind, is to immediately do away with botting. I know they can trace their own clients from their servers, so its not an unrealistic ability. However, if they are complicit in their dealings with the Goons, or any other large alliance out in nullsec, who are using bots for the sole purpose of RMT's and if they are in some fashion getting returns for this, then this is nothing more than perpatrating fraud on the player base, which is against the law, everywhere in the world, except for Somalia.

I'm not accusing anyone of botting, and I'm definately not accusing anyone of RMT's or CCP's hand in any of it. I'm just drawing a possible conclusion based on what I've read in the last two weeks here on the forums and in the blogs by the Devs about moving mining related stuff out of Empire to nullsec.

I love my sandbox, and I love the other kids that play in it. Goons too. They add a spice to the game that you can't find anywhere else. But, it scares the hell out of me that quite possibly CCP is being taken advantage of all in the name of "better game mechanics".

You may commence flamming this post now. Enjoy. I know I'm going to.

Two out of the 9 CSMs are in Goonswarm.

Which is disappointing. We're shooting for 8/9 next time. Trebor can stay so we can continue to make fun of "crowdsourcing".

In CCP Greyscale's blog he discussed moving Ice to null sec as part of the 0.0 Industry revamp. It hasn't been decided yet if this will happen or not. I suggest checking out the archived Features and Ideas forum for some more info on what was discussed.

My vote is to take away Belt Ice in high and low sec and move it to probeable grav sites. However for this to be a success, ice needs to be worth mining and as it stands right now (Goon ganking aside) Ice is not worth mining.

TL;DR
1) ice as Grav sites in empire space.
2) Reduce Iso requirements for POS and increase requirements for capital ships (adjust Iso's m3 also)
3) make ice depletable.

Thread cleaned.

The ice need to be sepparated in good ice and bad ice, bad ice keeps in high sec, good ice gets in 0.0. This requirs a whole ice belt overhaul witch is easy done with some scripting...

There's already "better" ice in null than in high sec.

Just remove all Ice from the game and have POSes powered from a reactor, just like the capacitor is in ships.

The less 'Logistics-Online' the better.

Guess what the reactors would be fuelled with ?

Guess what the reactors would be fuelled with ?

What about yellow snow?

How about depletable Ice roids in high sec, unlimited Ice like it is now in 0.0and low sec. So people still can get some ice in high sec, but not unlmited like it is now. Which would mean most of the ice would have to come from 0.0, some would come from low sec and hi sec.

If you make high sec and wormholes dependant on low and null sec in order to survive... well, it'll be bad. Devastatingly so.

Sure this may make some move to nullsec yet again, but for others, no matter what they do, they won't go. If they really want to get a lot back to 0.0, unnerf the anons..lol Plus a few other things and will have another mass exodus to 0.0.

Yeah why not get it done an make the whole game like 0.0
Get rid of CONCORD. If the Ice interdiction has showed anything, theyre useless anyways

How about this, larger the alliance, more bounty concord places on them in 0.0, make pvp semi profitable and promote more PVP. And larger the alliance is, more of a target you will be

How about this, larger the alliance, more bounty concord places on them in 0.0, make pvp semi profitable and promote more PVP. And larger the alliance is, more of a target you will be

Excellent ideas. I will mention them to Chairman For Life The Mittani.

The removal of Ice from high sec will do one of a few things to Eve.

1) The prices of items will go through the roof, you wont buy a Rifter for under 5 million isk. Because ice for the POS's in high sec will cost to much because the null sec alliances will have a strangle hold on it.

2) Industry in high sec will suffer overall as small industry corps shut down and leave the game. (Some people do not wish to play in low sec or null sec.)

3) High sec will become empty as people either leave the game or become null sec mining slaves.

If you wish to kill the markets and industry in New Eden then remove Ice from high sec. And then the game stops being a sandbox.

The removal of Ice from high sec will do one of a few things to Eve.

1) The prices of items will go through the roof, you wont buy a Rifter for under 5 million isk. Because ice for the POS's in high sec will cost to much because the null sec alliances will have a strangle hold on it.

2) Industry in high sec will suffer overall as small industry corps shut down and leave the game. (Some people do not wish to play in low sec or null sec.)

3) High sec will become empty as people either leave the game or become null sec mining slaves.

If you wish to kill the markets and industry in New Eden then remove Ice from high sec. And then the game stops being a sandbox.

Guess what the reactors would be fuelled with ?

As much as I "carebear" these days and run POS's etc. this is not quite true.

The only thing a high-sec POS effectively allows is for you to work on BPO's/BPC's and copies. ALL of which can be done in stations - albeit, waiting 3 months for a slot. This can be easily remedied at the flick of a switch by CCP.

All production on any item that can be done in a highsec POS can also be done in station.

It will mean a rationalization of highsec POS's at worst but will it force 0.0 alliances to mine their own ice and this alone makes them very, very vulnerable. This can only be a good thing.

You Sir seems not gotten the point i wanted to bring up aside from the large impact Hiseciceremoving will have not only on infrastructure, market and economy it also will FORCE....i repeat me agein FORCE technically players to leave hisec to go to either lowsec or 0.0 to get what they need.....please understand there are peoples DOESN'T want to go there at all....they simply decided to stay in hisec cause of beeing saved before the stress low and 0.0 sec activity can cause....stress which if it really gets bad and hard kills every relaxing amount this game can and had for them.

Remember, some peoples are coming home from a stressfull day at work and loggin in to eve to have a bit relaxing activities here and enjoying their stay with some friends they have here as well....if this goes away....those players will go away ( leave ) as well and that Sir....is a promise which will happen if CCP is not finally ligthens up and starts to think a bit themselfes again.

holy **** do you also live in nigeria and have a large quantity of money you need me to help you move in exchange for a 20% cut but first you need a $5,000 tracking fee

Basicly the whole idea of moving people into low sec is flawed with the current alliance pvp only mentallity and politics

At the moment ,how i see it is is actually easier and cheaper for nullsec alliance just to mine the abc ores and exploit moons for moo goo , take what they need for their own use and sell the rest in high sec and buy their low end minerals and ice products there and still end up with a huge profit, which makes sense

It is not that there aren't any opportunities for a ondustrial in nullsec, just the mentallity isn't there to expand a alliance industrial base and to become selfsufficient
What hardcore pvp pilot would want to babysit over a bunch of iceminers while he could do plexes and earn a few 100 millions
Second most ex nullsec dwellers eventually left nullsec because they despise the politics and the drama or got sick and tired being treated as second rat e citizen or ending up as target practice by a alliance that is actually blue to the sov holding alliance they belong or rent from

Alot of people who are into industry or mining i know in high sec really want to have a go in nullsec but sadly like i said before the mentallity and current sov mechanics making this very hard of not impossible

And removing high sec ice will certainly not get more people into null sec

just my thoughts

In a weird way, the Goon campaign is proving that moving ice into null and allowing it to be controlled (like moons) causes prices to skyrocket and access to drop.

It's way too early in the campaign to properly make this argument. We're barely out of the initial price shock.

In a weird way, the Goon campaign is proving that moving ice into null and allowing it to be controlled (like moons) causes prices to skyrocket and access to drop. Why Goons are choosing to make that point is something I don't know, as I'm unsure whether the leadership does or does not want ice to disappear.

It was flagged in the initial announcement (on the gank campaign) as the weakest link in the economy. Proving how fragile it is might bolster the argument to make ice commodities more stable and available - ie, keep it in highsec and maybe expand th number of systems.

I only worry about wormholes if ice were to move to null and be more easily manipulated, as the POS is the core of WH life.

As a WH roamer, though, I like the idea of finding more and more POS that have run out of fuel ;)

everyone, including every ccp employee considering it, knows moving ice to 0.0 would cause prices to increase and access to drop, that would be the point

Currently, hi-sec ice is generating a whole lot of gameplay and tears. As far as I'm concerned, it should stay.