Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dexen Echerie
SynnCo Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
So for months and months, everything was cool. Mining in Hi-sec was just fine, and suicide ganking was rare (at least in the systems i mined in).
My friends and I decied to move our operation to a different system, just for a change of pace, but noticed quite a bit of suicide ganking going on there, so we moved about 25 jumps away, back to our old neighborhood. Then yesterday, outta nowhere (and completely out of character for the system) my mining gang gets suicide ganked. They only got once of us, but still, kinda lame.
I know it happens, wasn't even all that surprised. What got me was when today, we got hit AGAIN in a different system. Same M.O., though I didn't recognize any of the names from the day before...
This isn't so much a (edited to: complaining) post as it is a question...
Anyone else noticing a rise in suicide ganking lately? Or have I just been unlucky? |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
579
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dexen Echerie wrote:So for months and months, everything was cool. Mining in Hi-sec was just fine, and suicide ganking was rare (at least in the systems i mined in).
My friends and I decied to move our operation to a different system, just for a change of pace, but noticed quite a bit of suicide ganking going on there, so we moved about 25 jumps away, back to our old neighborhood. Then yesterday, outta nowhere (and completely out of character for the system) my mining gang gets suicide ganked. They only got once of us, but still, kinda lame.
I know it happens, wasn't even all that surprised. What got me was when today, we got hit AGAIN in a different system. Same M.O., though I didn't recognize any of the names from the day before...
This isn't so much a (edited to: complaining) post as it is a question...
Anyone else noticing a rise in suicide ganking lately? Or have I just been unlucky?
unlucky and untanked http://zkillboard.com/detail/28524814/ that is not a tank...mine in a tanked Mack or a untanked Skiff, Fit Ganglinks on your booster orca problem solved.
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
|
Dexen Echerie
SynnCo Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
My impression was that worrying too much about tanking in hi-sec was pointless... mostly because if someone plans to get you in hi-sec, they'll find a way.
Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
93
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dexen Echerie wrote:So for months and months, everything was cool. Mining in Hi-sec was just fine, and suicide ganking was rare (at least in the systems i mined in).
My friends and I decied to move our operation to a different system, just for a change of pace, but noticed quite a bit of suicide ganking going on there, so we moved about 25 jumps away, back to our old neighborhood. Then yesterday, outta nowhere (and completely out of character for the system) my mining gang gets suicide ganked. They only got once of us, but still, kinda lame.
I know it happens, wasn't even all that surprised. What got me was when today, we got hit AGAIN in a different system. Same M.O., though I didn't recognize any of the names from the day before...
This isn't so much a (edited to: complaining) post as it is a question...
Anyone else noticing a rise in suicide ganking lately? Or have I just been unlucky?
just unlucky, Suicide ganking (outside of where CODE is) is at historic lows. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5240
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Exhumer ganks are at a record low. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5240
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dexen Echerie wrote:My impression was that worrying too much about tanking in hi-sec was pointless... mostly because if someone plans to get you in hi-sec, they'll find a way. Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? A single damage control. You are already unprofitable to gank with just the bare hull ehp. |
Kate stark
137
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dexen Echerie wrote:My impression was that worrying too much about tanking in hi-sec was pointless... mostly because if someone plans to get you in hi-sec, they'll find a way. Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? A single damage control. You are already unprofitable to gank with just the bare hull ehp. the correct answer was "a retriever"
i'm sorry baltec1 you don't advance to the next round of answering silly questions in GD, better luck next time :P |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6758
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dexen Echerie wrote:My impression was that worrying too much about tanking in hi-sec was pointless... mostly because if someone plans to get you in hi-sec, they'll find a way.
Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then?
if someone is determined to gank you and capable of it, they will
if you make it more difficult, it's less likely ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Gordian Knot Holdings
5710
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
You made the mistake of fitting for yield, tanking in highsec is always worthwhile if you're mining. Fit a halfway decent tank and people will move onto an easier target, You don't have to have an uber tank, you need enough tank to survive until Concord turn up.
With my miners skills you get about 13k (eve)EHP against blasters from your fit, Catalysts are the main ships used for suicide ganking hence blasters , by sacrificing a little yield (-3m^3/second) you can nearly double that up to about 23k (eve)EHP permatank and be capstable so that your strips keep running.
[Mackinaw, quickly thrown together for a tank ]
Modulated Strip Miner II (Kernite Mining Crystal II) Modulated Strip Miner II (Pyroxeres Mining Crystal II)
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Survey Scanner II
2x Mining Laser Upgrade I Damage Control II
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current. |
Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
30203
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
No Skill Pvp =D
We've all done it, It can be fun.... Altho I'd rather go into a Fight and come out with my ship intact I lack any Moral Fiber :D |
|
Arronicus
Brave Newbies Inc.
191
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 08:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dexen Echerie wrote:
My impression was that worrying too much about tanking in hi-sec was pointless... mostly because if someone plans to get you in highsec they will find a way
Your impression is correct only so far as applying to someone with a particular grudge against you, and a willingness to part with many tens of millions, if not more isk, to achieve that end.
Since that is NOT the case here, No.
Tanking in highsec is all about mitigating the amount of suicide gankers that are going to go after you. Hulks in highsec are suicide, they are built for active tanks, not buffer tanks, and as such, they are incredibly easy to gank. Anyone sees one, they tell their friends, you die. Mackinaws are a good balance, of tank, vs yield. Given that you don't see many hulks in highsec anymore, mostly just null and w-space, Mackinaws make up the majority of exhumers that get ganked in highsec.
If you fly a mack, it better have a decent buffer tank on it. Make sure you have a large tank, before you go for yield. If you have 3 mining laser upgrades in the lows, you don't have enough tank.
Skiffs, are if you want practically noone to even try to gank you. Skiffs still have a decent-ish yield, and their ore-hold is bigger than a hulk still, even if nothing like a mackinaw, but they can get absolutely absurd tanks. To the extent where ganking an afterburner fit full buffer skiff can take in excess of what, 15 destroyers?
The more tank you fit, the less gankers you will appeal to. When I used to gank in the past, I always ship scanned my targets first, not only to select the ones with the more expensive fittings, but also to make sure that they didnt have too much tank for my gang to reasonably take down. Some other people do this to.
TL:DR if you don't fit a tank, you're gonna die. If you do, the bigger the tank, the less likely you'll get ganked. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5241
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dexen Echerie wrote:My impression was that worrying too much about tanking in hi-sec was pointless... mostly because if someone plans to get you in hi-sec, they'll find a way. Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? A single damage control. You are already unprofitable to gank with just the bare hull ehp. the correct answer was "a retriever" i'm sorry baltec1 you don't advance to the next round of answering silly questions in GD, better luck next time :P I hope that one day I meet a miner that will change their ways. Its been a year now and I have yet to meet one, I fear they dont exist. |
Kate stark
137
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kate stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dexen Echerie wrote:My impression was that worrying too much about tanking in hi-sec was pointless... mostly because if someone plans to get you in hi-sec, they'll find a way. Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? A single damage control. You are already unprofitable to gank with just the bare hull ehp. the correct answer was "a retriever" i'm sorry baltec1 you don't advance to the next round of answering silly questions in GD, better luck next time :P I hope that one day I meet a miner that will change their ways. Its been a year now and I have yet to meet one, I fear they dont exist.
why would we? you already said it's unprofitable to gank a hulk with 16k+ehp, and you can get that from a max yield fit. what is there to change?
if it's unprofitable to gank that, then you're evidently only ganking me for the lulz, and if lulz is what you want no amount of tank is going to save me is it? |
Whitehound
824
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dexen Echerie wrote:Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? Yes, a Skiff.
baltec1 wrote:I hope that one day I meet a miner that will change their ways. Its been a year now and I have yet to meet one, I fear they dont exist. It will be a cold, harsh day for you when it happens, or if... SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Kate stark
137
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Dexen Echerie wrote:Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? Yes, a Skiff. no, a retriever! |
Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
30207
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Whitehound wrote:Dexen Echerie wrote:Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? Yes, a Skiff. no, a retriever!
A FEROX! I lack any Moral Fiber :D |
Beckie DeLey
Living From Scraps
332
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
why would we? you already said it's unprofitable to gank a hulk with 16k+ehp, and you can get that from a max yield fit. what is there to change?[/quote]
Well, at least you agree that there's a problem. So... i started an industry blog at www.derbk.com/eve There i am preparing a guide to all things related to manufacturing. Check it out!
|
Whitehound
824
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Whitehound wrote:Dexen Echerie wrote:Any suggestions for a good tanked Mack, then? Yes, a Skiff. no, a retriever! He wants to get ganked less and not more.
One can tank a Skiff to 100k-125k eHP. It is half the eHP of a freighter, at a signature of ~230m. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
393
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Exhumer ganks are at a record low.
I have a lot of exhumers for you to gank.
- Only exhumers - Untanked (I promise) - Not talking about Skiffs (I promise)
Did I mention that those exhumers are not max buffer Skiffs?
Deal? |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
689
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kate stark wrote: why would we? you already said it's unprofitable to gank a hulk with 16k+ehp, and you can get that from a max yield fit. what is there to change?
if it's unprofitable to gank that, then you're evidently only ganking me for the lulz, and if lulz is what you want no amount of tank is going to save me is it?
Why would miners change, indeed? Forum Whine-tank seems to work pretty well in light of recent CCP buffs to Concord and EHP.
Untanked 'mining ships' now have significantly more EHP than untanked T2 and T1 Combat ships.
A Procurer costs 7 Million ISK, and has almost 30K EHP untanked. Yeah, makes sense.
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country
5242
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Exhumer ganks are at a record low. I have a lot of exhumers for you to gank. - Only exhumers - Untanked (I promise) - Not talking about Skiffs (I promise) Did I mention that those exhumers are not max buffer Skiffs? Deal? Only hulks are profitable when untanked. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3411
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 09:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Kate stark wrote:why would we? you already said it's unprofitable to gank a hulk with 16k+ehp, and you can get that from a max yield fit. what is there to change?
if it's unprofitable to gank that, then you're evidently only ganking me for the lulz, and if lulz is what you want no amount of tank is going to save me is it? Why would miners change, indeed? Forum Whine-tank seems to work pretty well in light of recent CCP buffs to Concord and EHP. Untanked 'mining ships' now have significantly more EHP than untanked T2 and T1 Combat ships. A Procurer costs 7 Million ISK, and has almost 30K EHP untanked. Yeah, makes sense. Turning on your CCP-Faction Invulns saves lives. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
baltec1
Bat Country
5243
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:A Procurer costs 7 Million ISK, and has almost 30K EHP untanked. Yeah, makes sense. Fun fact. My arbi with a 1600 plate has less tank than an untanked procurer. It also barely out tanks an untanked mack which now has a bigger base EHP than the heavy assault ships. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
147
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Herr Wilkus wrote:A Procurer costs 7 Million ISK, and has almost 30K EHP untanked. Yeah, makes sense. Fun fact. My arbi with a 1600 plate has less tank than an untanked procurer. It also barely out tanks an untanked mack which now has a bigger base EHP than the heavy assault ships. Fun fact, your Arbi (A t1 Ewar cruiser....) has enough PG to fit a 1600 Plate. A T2 Barge, does not. If you want to take the raw EHP away from barges, then give them that PG and let them choose to fit the plate or fit an MLU. Give the T1 Barges more than 1 Mid slot. Then you can start to complain about their raw EHP. |
Solstice Project
Brave Newbies Inc.
2748
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
I haven't noticed anything like this. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
baltec1
Bat Country
5243
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:baltec1 wrote:Herr Wilkus wrote:A Procurer costs 7 Million ISK, and has almost 30K EHP untanked. Yeah, makes sense. Fun fact. My arbi with a 1600 plate has less tank than an untanked procurer. It also barely out tanks an untanked mack which now has a bigger base EHP than the heavy assault ships. Fun fact, your Arbi (A t1 Ewar cruiser....) has enough PG to fit a 1600 Plate. A T2 Barge, does not. If you want to take the raw EHP away from barges, then give them that PG and let them choose to fit the plate or fit an MLU. Give the T1 Barges more than 1 Mid slot. Then you can start to complain about their raw EHP. You could easily tank all three exhumers way past the point of being unprofitable pre buff. The irony here is that we were calling for a PG/CPU buff not an EHP buff. |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
691
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
I guess the thing that just sticks in my craw the most is that CCP essentially redesigned these ships around terrible and/or lazy play.
Whatever people think about ganking, its an active process. Gankers are actually 'playing' the game. Gankers need to know exactly how the game works - how to deal with Concord, how to assess a target, how to compromise those fits, how to work as a team. On top of handling logistics and 'white knights'. All at our expense in terms of extra accounts, ISK and effort. Catalysts and Tornados weren't designed for gankers. Orca's weren't designed for ninjas. But we MADE them work, and when CCP discovered it, they nerfed them.
Miners? CCP came to the conclusion that they just weren't going to learn how to tank, so gave it to them for free. They wanted AFK ISK -so gave them huge cargo capability - also for free. Bots and multiboxers multiply. Except for the poor Hulk, left behind. Now its almost extinct and prices crashed from 300M to 200M on them overnight.
Flawed, rushed rebalance, all built around the refusal of miners to even learn the basics.
It would be like Vagabond pilots whining about losing too many Vagabonds, crying for 3x as much speed, and then getting it, even if it makes no sense.
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
235
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yeh, highsec isnt as safe as most expect it to be If you want to be safe, goto nul sec, as our targets often say My resists to bad posts are 78-89-83-90 ....... The metal head plate increased it by 5%.
|
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
393
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 11:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You could easily tank all three exhumers way past the point of being unprofitable pre buff. The irony here is that we were calling for a PG/CPU buff not an EHP buff.
One Catalyst could easily destroy tanked Retriever and have time to get tanked Procurer to structure after that. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
148
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 11:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Except for the poor Hulk, left behind. Now its almost extinct and prices crashed from 300M to 200M on them overnight.
Right up until you said this..... you might have had some credibility. But CCP's graphs released a week ago show the Hulk is still the money maker of the exhumers overall, hauling in large quantities of ore consistantly. Of course, they happen to be doing this in null sec, in grav sites, out of your high sec 'elite PvPers' sight.... So you ignore the actual facts and simply go off the High Sec Ice belts for what exists. Ore miners are never AFK, they may be 'AFW' for 60 second intervals sometimes, who wouldn't be when faced with that boring a cycle for hours on end. But never AFK for anything significant, or their mining stops. Ice Miners are the only people this accusation has basis against.
So..... maybe, just maybe.... you are badly biased on this subject. And CCP had a point behind what they did. Probably they based EHP numbers to avoid Barges fitting all sorts of non mining related modules, thats my guess. Since we can imagine a 1000 PWG, 400 CPU Procurer being used for all sorts of things I'm sure. Not to say it's not actually my prefered option.
But... we can just imagine there are really 2 more lows & 2 more mids on every barge and that they are auto fitted with plates & extenders on every barge instead. And then they are fitted for tank :P.
Was it 'lazy'. Not by CCP, I'm quite sure they will have gamed out 10,000 scenarios as part of their balancing. Was it lazy by miners? I'm sure most miners would love more flexibility & more slots to fit modules into. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |