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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:15:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Sorja
Very fair point.
There's no smarbomb or defenders against turrets neither.
BCS II are long due, CCP said 'it's coming', God only knows when.
Smartbombs and defenders are nearly worthless for missile defense post-patch.
Tracking disruptors essentially disable turret-based battleships.
Still spouting half-truths I see.
Range mods designed to make missiles a long range weapon, this means that at long range, Defenders are still a viable option as you have plenty of warning to activate them.(smartbombs less so I admit, but I think their use against missiles was always a "player invention" rather than an intended use by the Devs)
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:32:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Grey Area on 28/07/2005 21:35:50
Y'know, I posted this thread a while back (here) and it got derailed (guess who by?).
Originally by: Slithereen
I really like the new system now, but it still needs a little bit of tweaking.
-Warhead Upgrades should be a 3% increase
-There should be a midslot mod to increase explosive radius and a low slot version that is less effective.
-+3 and +5 Implants to improve missile velocity, navigation, ROF, range, and explosive radius.
-I agree on the heavy assault launcher.
-Reduction in missile storage space.
-Low slot target painter. Not as effective as the midslot one.
*signed*
Agree with all the above...don't forget that Warhead Upgrades is a rank FIVE skill compared to Surgical strike being a rank FOUR, so I think it should actually be boosted to a 4% increase in damage to reflect this (no, no smiley, I'm deadly serious)
Here's a link to my suggestions for implants in the Game Development ideas forum
If we get explosion size reducing modules, I'm happy with there being an equivalent module to worsen the effect. If I know I'm going hunting an Apoc in a frig, I'll fit a turret disrupter. If I'm hunting a Raven, I SHOULD be able to fit a missile launcher disrupter. No, I don't want a module that jams both turrets AND missiles, as that goes back to the "cookie cutter" setups that so many people complained the Raven was guilty of. Plus it would be nice to be able to counter complaints of "Wah, Ravens hit my frigate for lots of damage now!" with a snotty comment of "Fit a (insert module name here) then", in the same way that they now tell US to fit target painters...
On the subject of which, target painter's suck, or are broken. They add 25% to hits on ALL targets with LARGE turrets, but add 10% damage to Torpedo hits on frigs and cruisers, and NO damage to Torpedo hits on Battleships or structures. Why?
While we're on the subject, can I add to the list; let Torpedoes do FULL damage to the structure of structures. At least then they would be useful for SOMEthing.
This petition is SO /signed
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:39:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Grey Area
Agree with all the above...don't forget that Warhead Upgrades is a rank FIVE skill compared to Surgical strike being a rank FOUR, so I think it should actually be boosted to a 4% increase in damage to reflect this (no, no smiley, I'm deadly serious)
Right and Torpedos is a rank 4 skill while large turret skills are all rank 5 so we should boost all turret damage by 5% right?
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loxxx
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:41:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Grey Area
Agree with all the above...don't forget that Warhead Upgrades is a rank FIVE skill compared to Surgical strike being a rank FOUR, so I think it should actually be boosted to a 4% increase in damage to reflect this (no, no smiley, I'm deadly serious)
Right and Torpedos is a rank 4 skill while large turret skills are all rank 5 so we should boost all turret damage by 5% right?
cruise missile is rank5 and torp rank4 so 4+5 vs 5 on turrets?
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:43:00 -
[65]
omg
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4seti
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:47:00 -
[66]
/signed
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:51:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Dryxonedes Sae on 28/07/2005 21:55:01
I don't know why people have a problem with defenders, i've used them in both PvP and PvE, they seem to work fairly well for me. Sure, they don't knock out every missile, but from a rocket launcher i can usually destroy 3-6 incomming missiles before the rocket launcher is empty. It's enough for a damage reduction if your tanking is starting to suffer a little, gives almost a second life.
Missed the /signed.....
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.28 22:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Meridius
Right and Torpedos is a rank 4 skill while large turret skills are all rank 5 so we should boost all turret damage by 5% right?
Must admit I hadn't noticed that...but hey, why not, as long as we get the extra 5% on Cruise Missiles which IS level 5
Personally, I think Cruise and Torps = wrong way round.
Of course the sensible thing would be to address the rank issue - but you can't do that once people have trained it...anything to try and "fix" it will of course be a jury-rigged solution. Though I'd be quite happy for CCP to reduce the higher of all equivalent skills down to the rank of the lower, and give me the difference in skill points to distribute as I choose. I won't hold my breath.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Uggster
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Posted - 2005.07.29 03:47:00 -
[69]
Though it pains me immeasurabley to say so Blind Fear is right.
I have watch in disbelif at the incredable antics of my defender missiles post patch, they go everywhere except to hit the missiles targeted at my ship, and if by a slim chance they chase a missile apparently def. lvl 3 (thank god i didnt waste more time) cant even catch a heavy or cruise missile.
Smarties dont work on missiles now due to command latency (not even lag but add a little of that and you can truely forget it)
However keeping missiles as a poor mans turret wont work either, up the missile potentual damage output (or lower everything else I honestly dont care which) but also provide some form of electronic anti missile counter (like chaff/flare/missile specific ECM with an X% chance of making the missiles miss or detonate to soon or whatever).
So in a way you are both right, or both wrong.
I however am right. 
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:02:00 -
[70]
And here i thought this post was about the missiles changes.
I agree with this though, missiles users are lacking. If you're going to bring missiles up to par with turrets, then give the missiles users the same kind of stuff the turret users use.
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CANADIAN |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:36:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Sorja on 29/07/2005 04:36:04
Originally by: Uggster
my defender missiles ... go everywhere except to hit the missiles targeted at my ship, and if by a slim chance they chase a missile apparently def. lvl 3 (thank god i didnt waste more time) cant even catch a heavy or cruise missile.
At what range? There is a huge difference saying defenders have lost part of their efficiency or saying they are useless (as the anti-missiles lobby would like us to believe).
Quote:
Smarties dont work on missiles now due to command latency (not even lag but add a little of that and you can truely forget it)
Same as above, it is possible to nullify a whole missile fleet with smartbombs, provided a pilot is devoted to it, but it is not a 'I win' button in every situation.
Back on topic, there is a reason why CCP didn't release BCSII in the Cold War patch. I don't think the missile overhaul is carved in stone, there is room for improvement and balance (to say the least) so it seems quite logical they withheld BCS or implants or whatever.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:43:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 29/07/2005 04:45:51
Originally by: Sorja
Edited by: Sorja on 29/07/2005 04:36:04
Originally by: Uggster
my defender missiles ... go everywhere except to hit the missiles targeted at my ship, and if by a slim chance they chase a missile apparently def. lvl 3 (thank god i didnt waste more time) cant even catch a heavy or cruise missile.
At what range? There is a huge difference saying defenders have lost part of their efficiency or saying they are useless (as the anti-missiles lobby would like us to believe).
If someone is firing cruise missiles from 100k, you will destroy 1 missile per volley. This is reguardless of the number of defender launchers you have.
At 50k, youve got a 50/50 chance of taking out a single missile.
At sub-30k, defenders are totally worthless.
Lets see what range a tracking disruptor works at - wait, I think it's all of the above. Lets see how many shots it interdicts - wait, I think its all of them.
Defenders are useless. Arguing otherwise means that you're a brain-dead muppet. Originally by: Sorja
Same as above, it is possible to nullify a whole missile fleet with smartbombs, provided a pilot is devoted to it, but it is not a 'I win' button in every situation.
If you strap on 8 large smartbombs, it is mathamatically impossible for you to have complete missile defense.
Yeah, using up every highslot you own to get an incomplete and imperfect defense is an I Win button.
Again - brain-dead muppets need not reply to tell me how they can fire off a large smartbomb in the .66 second window where missiles are in its range.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:49:00 -
[73]
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:52:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Sorja
This is the smartest reply to anything you have ever made.
Go team forumnublets4tw!
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Calian
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Posted - 2005.07.29 06:02:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Sorja
This is the smartest reply to anything you have ever made.
Go team forumnublets4tw!
Wow, that's the first coherent reply I've ever seen you make... I guess someone finally posted something within the reach of your intellect.
Regardless, this isn't about if missile defenses are good or not, or how they stack up to tracking disruptors, so I won't even bother to say anything more about either. Missiles are sorely in need of more love though, that I will say for sure.
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I hate everyone, except you. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.08.01 08:06:00 -
[76]
*bump*
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.08.01 08:39:00 -
[77]
lol...
Nobody bothered to reply to this thread anymore because its stupid. Bumping it isnt going to make people agree with you.
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2005.08.01 09:01:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 01/08/2005 09:06:29
Something is kinda crap though with all of these changes. We were fighting Evolution yesterday, I was sitting 40-50km away from the battle with CM's. One of our Megathrons with 425's were sitting 15-20km away from a Bizzare's vagabond hitting him for 400 damage, but I was at 50km hitting for 71 damage pr devastator CM. Ok, so they Vagabond wouldnt be hit by the 425's if he was orbiting close, but how often do they do that beside in 1vs1 etc? The Raven woudlnt be doing enough damage to break any HAC's tank anyway, & probably do zero damage if the Vagabond was going full sleep anyway... SO regardless of range the Raven does crap damage against anything but battleships, while battleships still pwn from pretty close to long range as long as not being orbited very close up, but then ur m8 20km away could kill it anyway... YAY!
The damageformula should at least be dependent on transversal velocity and not absolute velocity. Makes a lot more sense than outrunning a blast anyway that its hitting badly because the missile didnt "track" enough, also there should be a way to multiply the transversla by the sig radius of the ship, where if the transversal is zero then the damage is full, that way you get a formula based on the transversal and modulated by a static factor, the sig radius...
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Crazy Klebon
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Posted - 2005.08.01 09:48:00 -
[79]
/Signed
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Prinz Eugen
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Posted - 2005.08.01 10:24:00 -
[80]
/Signed
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.08.01 12:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Selim
lol...
Nobody bothered to reply to this thread anymore because its stupid. Bumping it isnt going to make people agree with you.
The preceding three posts would seem to give the lie to that Selim.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Dave Toz
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Posted - 2005.08.01 13:01:00 -
[82]
I cant really comment on PVP as ive pulled out of that area of the game (cant afford to spend all my life sat on voicecomms waiting to be told either to safespot or that the opposition have turned round/logged)
What i can comment on is that i have spent alot of time flying a Cerberus and more recently the Muninn and Vagabond.
Ive now got the new missile skills up to lvl3 and am about 60 dmg per missile(this was a good shot) short of what i got pre patch, so imo there has been a damage nerf to missiles, this is just rubbing salt into the wound of Cerb pilots as they were way below the DoT of other HACs to start with.
The old counter argument used to be 'but you hit for max damage everytime' now you still hit everytime but you do naf all damage.
Now missiles dont do max damage everytime but evan if they did they would still be way below the DoT of similar turret based ships in their class
missiles are now left with evan lower DPS (no doubt it will be somewhere near the old lvls in ideal conditions and with max skills.)
im now firmly converted to the Vagabond and Munnin, ill test the Cerberus occasionally to see if its been fixed cos i love it dearly but atm its just an expencive ornament to decorate my hanger.
I dont have a problem with their being a variable damage rate depending on target size/speed, but i believe that the optimal damage should be on a par with other weapons of its class.
for example a cruiser should be taking similar DoT off heavy missiles as it is off the medium rails/lasers/proj
This imo is where the problem lies. think about it when did you last see a missile get a wrecking hit
This is my experience with Cerberus, and im assuming these charactoristics are the same through out the missile boats.
if not then ignore me :)
/Signed
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Markie
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Posted - 2005.08.01 13:20:00 -
[83]
I have not read the hole thread, but got to say I am totaly for T2 BCU, and assault heavy's. I also think that some type of mod to improve the damage, ie a module to improve the missile tracking/speed/range so they are more like turrets.
So Signed
CCP this is a good idea please don't pass it over
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.08.01 13:45:00 -
[84]
dont know what blind fear and her anti-missile lobby is still yapping about. Defenders work fine for me when i use my turret ships, against both cruise and torp ravens. Maybe it takes someone with a "brain of a muppet" or whatever Blind fear said, to use them correctly and actualy realise that the new missile skills matters for defenders too?
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.01 14:00:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Selim
lol...
Nobody bothered to reply to this thread anymore because its stupid. Bumping it isnt going to make people agree with you.
/signed.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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yourmama45
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Posted - 2005.08.01 17:15:00 -
[86]
So let me see (Pardon the pun):
Blindo teh Nublit thinks defenders should get boosted.. Now how would that effect, for example, the Cerberus?
Before BtN's change:
Cerberus < any other HAC
After BtN's change:
Cerberus << any other HAC
Puuuuhelease, It really doesn't matter that defenders suck, cause missiles suck even more.
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Hiram
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Posted - 2005.08.02 01:05:00 -
[87]
/signed.
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Nebuli
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Posted - 2005.08.02 01:57:00 -
[88]
Well my Dom with large rails completely owns my raven for damage on just about anything, frigs are dead before you turn on the 6th turret, raven im sat spamming missiles for about a minute to do the same thing, missiles are screwed totaly now, turrets dont have major probs hitting frigs unless there realy close, so I dont see why missiles should, my ravens totaly screwed, I realy should just blow it up and claim the insurance and get a megathron, but just cant seem to bring myself to do it.
My poor raven 
/signed
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Marruni
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Posted - 2005.08.02 01:58:00 -
[89]
Signed
Marruni
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.08.02 03:35:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Seramis
But against Turrets u have Tracking disruptor. So if a module comes in that changes explosion radius effect would mean u get also a module that reduces Signature radius as counterpart. For rducing the explosion radius effect we already have Target Painter. I use Missiles all the time, but most suggestions are only stupid. Tech II Modules like BC, Implants for more damage, more missile speed, more flight time, all ok, but a module that reduces explosion radius effect is not needed because it is already there (Target Painter).
Well if they ever relase the once planned stealth mod theres your counter measure...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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