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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.07.27 06:03:00 -
[1]
Things as a raven pilot i'd love to see soon...
T2 Ballistic control systems..... why none STILL after exodus? t2 dmg mods for the other 3 types... plus it'd bring the price of named bcu's waaaay down.
Missile 3% and 5% implants...., rof, grid fitting, explosion velocity, etc...
Assault heavy missile launcher- like an assault launcher, but loaded with heavies, for bs 
This isn't much to ask? plus a lot of us out there would like to make our ravens better. And no, i'm not a 3m sp noob, i have caldari bs lvl5.
SIGN MEH!
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CdCommander
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Posted - 2005.07.27 06:13:00 -
[2]
/signed
Give us some love again 
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Amarr knight
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Posted - 2005.07.27 06:39:00 -
[3]
/Signed
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Kashre
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Posted - 2005.07.27 07:31:00 -
[4]
missiles need some kind of equivalent to the tracking computer/enhancer. something that boosts their explosion speed and sig ratings. And t2 balistics.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
MrRookie
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Posted - 2005.07.27 07:44:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Kashre
missiles need some kind of equivalent to the tracking computer/enhancer. something that boosts their explosion speed and sig ratings. And t2 balistics.
No thanx. Tech 2 dmg mods sure but no explsion speed mods. I dont wanna see a coupple of mods making the Raven teh frig killer again. Missiles should have speed and and duration mods equalent of the tracking mods.
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy... 
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.27 07:59:00 -
[6]
This campaign to make missiles like turrets is annoying. They shoulda stayed like they were Pre-CW, cept never should have been any race's primary weapon.
Meh...maybe its just me.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Fred0 on 27/07/2005 08:24:06
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
This campaign to make missiles like turrets is annoying. They shoulda stayed like they were Pre-CW, cept never should have been any race's primary weapon.
Meh...maybe its just me.
I actually think the same. Or keep caldari as the noob race. They only ever were useful against Npc's and frigs more or less.. This game is friggen hard for the noobs and an easy to train for npc'ing bs is something EVE could definitely use imho
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:38:00 -
[8]
low and mid slot speed increaser, the equivalent of Tracking Computers. :).
------
Ham a Tee Tee Oh |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:39:00 -
[9]
/signed
but its unlikely - CCP hate the caldari 
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.07.27 10:22:00 -
[10]
makes sense, signed with all my 3 accs and their army of alts
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Skaaj
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Posted - 2005.07.27 10:34:00 -
[11]
/Signed
need some love over here..
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Abbadonuk
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MrRookie
Originally by: Kashre
missiles need some kind of equivalent to the tracking computer/enhancer. something that boosts their explosion speed and sig ratings. And t2 balistics.
No thanx. Tech 2 dmg mods sure but no explsion speed mods. I dont wanna see a coupple of mods making the Raven teh frig killer again. Missiles should have speed and and duration mods equalent of the tracking mods.
Tracking computers add to turrets ability to damage all ships including frigs, missiles should get an equivelant module that reduces the sig radius V explosion velocity effect. This would be balanced and we all want balance don't we?
Member of Lunar Dawn
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MrRookie
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Abbadonuk
Originally by: MrRookie
Originally by: Kashre
missiles need some kind of equivalent to the tracking computer/enhancer. something that boosts their explosion speed and sig ratings. And t2 balistics.
No thanx. Tech 2 dmg mods sure but no explsion speed mods. I dont wanna see a coupple of mods making the Raven teh frig killer again. Missiles should have speed and and duration mods equalent of the tracking mods.
Tracking computers add to turrets ability to damage all ships including frigs, missiles should get an equivelant module that reduces the sig radius V explosion velocity effect. This would be balanced and we all want balance don't we?
Not realy, I want a "win" button.
Joking but I vote for a speed/duration mod rather then explotion speed to further increase the range benefith. Mods to hit smaller ships bether when the missiles already is guaranteed to hitt will just make it a frig killer again
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
Cinnander
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Posted - 2005.07.27 13:15:00 -
[14]
If missile users get a explosion-speed mod, turret users will want a gun-sig-reducer mod, and so on 
I agree it's time there was T2 Ballistics, and I don't even use missiles ;)
Yep implants would be good too.
Yes and oversized mods (assault heavies, dual rockets etc), all good.
One compromise however... Tracking-Disruptor-like mod for missiles... make them heavier, or slower, whatever, but some activated module that you put on a targetted missile user to take the edge of their missiles ability to find, follow or hit your ship. |
Abbadonuk
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Posted - 2005.07.27 13:41:00 -
[15]
Thing is, we all know that if you fit a couple of tracking boosters then turrets hit better. This reduces the effects of transversal velocity and is true for BS guns ability to hit frigs at range, cruisers at closer ranges and BS at all ranges.
A mod that reduced "not removed" the effect of explosion radius would provide a similar result for missiles. So we either need this type of module or for tracking speed to be removed from tacking mods "reducing them to range boosting mods" in order to have parity.
Member of Lunar Dawn
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Waut
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Posted - 2005.07.27 13:43:00 -
[16]
Signed (yeah I fly Caldari, how could I not sign? )
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Seramis
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Posted - 2005.07.27 13:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Abbadonuk
Thing is, we all know that if you fit a couple of tracking boosters then turrets hit better. This reduces the effects of transversal velocity and is true for BS guns ability to hit frigs at range, cruisers at closer ranges and BS at all ranges.
A mod that reduced "not removed" the effect of explosion radius would provide a similar result for missiles. So we either need this type of module or for tracking speed to be removed from tacking mods "reducing them to range boosting mods" in order to have parity.
But against Turrets u have Tracking disruptor. So if a module comes in that changes explosion radius effect would mean u get also a module that reduces Signature radius as counterpart. For rducing the explosion radius effect we already have Target Painter. I use Missiles all the time, but most suggestions are only stupid. Tech II Modules like BC, Implants for more damage, more missile speed, more flight time, all ok, but a module that reduces explosion radius effect is not needed because it is already there (Target Painter).
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.27 18:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Abbadonuk
Thing is, we all know that if you fit a couple of tracking boosters then turrets hit better. This reduces the effects of transversal velocity and is true for BS guns ability to hit frigs at range, cruisers at closer ranges and BS at all ranges.
A mod that reduced "not removed" the effect of explosion radius would provide a similar result for missiles. So we either need this type of module or for tracking speed to be removed from tacking mods "reducing them to range boosting mods" in order to have parity.
Very fair point.
There's no smarbomb or defenders against turrets neither.
BCS II are long due, CCP said 'it's coming', God only knows when.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.27 18:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sorja
Very fair point.
There's no smarbomb or defenders against turrets neither.
BCS II are long due, CCP said 'it's coming', God only knows when.
Smartbombs and defenders are nearly worthless for missile defense post-patch.
Tracking disruptors essentially disable turret-based battleships.
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2005.07.27 19:21:00 -
[20]
No! Ffs all stfu about missiles... please...
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Profess0r Mansechs0r
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Posted - 2005.07.27 19:25:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Profess0r Mansechs0r on 27/07/2005 19:25:21
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=206404
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Calian
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Posted - 2005.07.27 19:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Calian on 27/07/2005 19:43:39
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Sorja
Very fair point.
There's no smarbomb or defenders against turrets neither.
BCS II are long due, CCP said 'it's coming', God only knows when.
Smartbombs and defenders are nearly worthless for missile defense post-patch.
Tracking disruptors essentially disable turret-based battleships.
Tracking disruptors work on one ship, smart bombs and defenders defend against ALL missiles (theoretically, I know they don't stop missiles 100%) from ANY ship attacking you. The down side is they don't defend any of your friends either, but tracking disrupts are balanced with defenders and smart bombs because one defends only you against all ships, the other defends everyone against one ship.
-------------------------
I hate everyone, except you. |
Eucarid
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Posted - 2005.07.27 19:44:00 -
[23]
I almost didn't open this topic. I thought it would be just another whine. These suggestions make sense. I'm not a missile user but I think these suggestions are fair.
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Alacrity
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Posted - 2005.07.27 19:56:00 -
[24]
How about halfing the weight of torps to compensate us for the extra we need to use now 
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.27 20:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Calian
Tracking disruptors work on one ship, smart bombs and defenders defend against ALL missiles (theoretically, I know they don't stop missiles 100%) from ANY ship attacking you. The down side is they don't defend any of your friends either, but tracking disrupts are balanced with defenders and smart bombs because one defends only you against all ships, the other defends everyone against one ship.
Tracking disruptors work.
Defenders and smartbombs dont.
This isnt even debatable. If you arent an idiot, you can go into the game and see for yourself.
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Layrex
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Posted - 2005.07.27 20:15:00 -
[26]
signed babeh
------------------------------
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Tanix
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Posted - 2005.07.27 20:27:00 -
[27]
Signage
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2005.07.27 20:37:00 -
[28]
dev reply elsewhere
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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.07.27 20:38:00 -
[29]
It's V. heartening to see a response like this, but please, hold on the flaming/whining, people . We can but hope that CCP read teh forums occasionally, adn that player say has some effect. Arguments about sb's/defenders and tracking disruptors left aside, any other ideas adn helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
I like the idea of dual rocket launchers though .
lets hope this petition will make CCP deliver!
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Christina Aguilera
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Posted - 2005.07.27 20:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Christina Aguilera on 27/07/2005 20:51:17
Simply put, missiles were turned into a simple version of other races turrets. We've got less modifying modules to work with and less choices for fitting/varety/versatility. Only good thing is FoFs. But it's still a rudimentary system. Missile users are like cavemen with clubs compared to turret users.
I'm not denying the basis for the changes were good but lets see some more launcher types/missiles, some mid slot modules and some more low slot modules as well.
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Jelosavich
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Posted - 2005.07.27 20:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Sorja
Very fair point.
There's no smarbomb or defenders against turrets neither.
BCS II are long due, CCP said 'it's coming', God only knows when.
Smartbombs and defenders are nearly worthless for missile defense post-patch.
Tracking disruptors essentially disable turret-based battleships.
Quoted for truth. I haven't had a chance to try defenders against missles, but smartbombs are crap. I can't hit any missles with them.
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CDLPeacemaker
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Posted - 2005.07.27 21:18:00 -
[32]
Edited by: CDLPeacemaker on 27/07/2005 21:19:16
Also fix the Rapid fire vs Rapid Launch thing. Why do gunnery skills get 4% rof per level and missles only get 3%??? Whats up with that? Other than that, a good idea! I just noticed ITS THE SAME THING ON WARHEAD UPGRADES! Warhead upgrades = 2% more damage. Surgical strike = 3% more damage. WTF Mates?
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.07.27 21:37:00 -
[33]
Leave defenders alone.
They can not be compared to tracing disruptors. Because trackign disruptors have limited range and affect one target. Defenders however have unlimited range and affects all targets currently firing at you. Unlimited because it dosnt matter wich range the missile user is compared to you, his missiles still have to travel to you and thus your defenders always have effect.
Only gripe with them is that at extremely close range they dont have time to activate before missiles hit. But at the same range you can disable said missile ships with ECM so the point is moot.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.27 21:42:00 -
[34]
we gotta even up the skills bonuses - either knock the rapid firing and surgical strike down 1% each (now watch me get flamed for saying that), or boost rapid launch and warhead upgrades 1% each
i'd personally prefer the first one - anything to reduce the damage offloaded to make battles last SLIGHTLY longer
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benzeb
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Posted - 2005.07.27 21:47:00 -
[35]
Large SB work as well on torp.
With ability and skill, you can sb and launch missile non stop.
Defender are bugged since a long time.
you have 3 weapon upgrades, us only one.
Why not a explo radius/speed explo? not to fight frig at most, just to take cruiser with cruise and not to see a bs tank with a burner like torp?
a 10% for the two bonus for a tech 1 is few like an TP
it s a choice, and Tp is for all(gunnery include)
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.27 23:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 27/07/2005 23:38:48
Originally by: Antic
Leave defenders alone.
They can not be compared to tracing disruptors. Because trackign disruptors have limited range and affect one target. Defenders however have unlimited range and affects all targets currently firing at you. Unlimited because it dosnt matter wich range the missile user is compared to you, his missiles still have to travel to you and thus your defenders always have effect.
Only gripe with them is that at extremely close range they dont have time to activate before missiles hit. But at the same range you can disable said missile ships with ECM so the point is moot.
Are you high or just retarded?
Right now defenders might perhaps work on a single missile per volley. MIGHT. This costs you a highslot, and requires a missile hardpoint. Usually the defender rockets past the incoming missile, turns around in time to see the missile it was targeted on slam into your ship, then flies off into oblivion.
Tracking disruptors have very good range and work EVERY TIME on EVERY SHOT taken, and effectively disable turret-based ships for a midslot and negligable cap.
I'm amazed anyone has the balls to STILL be whining that anti-missile defenses are more effective then anti-turret defenses, since you'd have to be a moron who'd never ever used either to say something like that.
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Pict1on
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Posted - 2005.07.28 00:08:00 -
[37]
/signed
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.07.28 00:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Edited by: Blind Fear on 27/07/2005 23:38:48
Originally by: Antic
Leave defenders alone.
They can not be compared to tracing disruptors. Because trackign disruptors have limited range and affect one target. Defenders however have unlimited range and affects all targets currently firing at you. Unlimited because it dosnt matter wich range the missile user is compared to you, his missiles still have to travel to you and thus your defenders always have effect.
Only gripe with them is that at extremely close range they dont have time to activate before missiles hit. But at the same range you can disable said missile ships with ECM so the point is moot.
Are you high or just retarded?
Right now defenders might perhaps work on a single missile per volley. MIGHT. This costs you a highslot, and requires a missile hardpoint. Usually the defender rockets past the incoming missile, turns around in time to see the missile it was targeted on slam into your ship, then flies off into oblivion.
Tracking disruptors have very good range and work EVERY TIME on EVERY SHOT taken, and effectively disable turret-based ships for a midslot and negligable cap.
I'm amazed anyone has the balls to STILL be whining that anti-missile defenses are more effective then anti-turret defenses, since you'd have to be a moron who'd never ever used either to say something like that.
interesting. As you seem to always fall back to pottymouth 12 year old craptalk when you run out of arguments, im not surprised to see you sound like a broken record once again.
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Bleakheart
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Posted - 2005.07.28 01:29:00 -
[39]
I'll sign, but I'd have to replace the implants I'm now using for turrets 
Oh yeah Antic, you know if we could search on these forums with the keywords "Retard", "Moron", and "Idiot", the first hundred posts would likely all be Blind Fears, or someone quoting them. LOL!
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GrayFox247
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Posted - 2005.07.28 01:45:00 -
[40]
/signed I fly a Crow 24/7 I'm getting wtfpwnd in every PvP combat 
"Only a fool trusts his life in a weapon." |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2005.07.28 01:52:00 -
[41]
I really like the new system now, but it still needs a little bit of tweaking.
-Warhead Upgrades should be a 3% increase
-There should be a midslot mod to increase explosive radius and a low slot version that is less effective.
-+3 and +5 Implants to improve missile velocity, navigation, ROF, range, and explosive radius.
-I agree on the heavy assault launcher.
-Reduction in missile storage space.
-Low slot target painter. Not as effective as the midslot one.
*signed*
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Furos
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Posted - 2005.07.28 02:26:00 -
[42]
/Signed
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Tar Magen
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Posted - 2005.07.28 03:20:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Tar Magen on 28/07/2005 03:22:40
Originally by: Antic
Originally by: Blind Fear
...
interesting. As you seem to always fall back to pottymouth 12 year old craptalk when you run out of arguments, im not surprised to see you sound like a broken record once again.
Right on, Blind Fear has tried to torpedo nearly every missile thread since the Cold War patch, spewing the same insults. The loser should have been banned long ago. |
Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.28 03:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tar Magen
Edited by: Tar Magen on 28/07/2005 03:22:40
Originally by: Antic
Originally by: Blind Fear
...
interesting. As you seem to always fall back to pottymouth 12 year old craptalk when you run out of arguments, im not surprised to see you sound like a broken record once again.
Right on, Blind Fear has tried to torpedo nearly every missile thread since the Cold War patch, spewing the same insults. The loser should have been banned long ago.
Cry me a damn river.
You should be thanking me, because the way I say things allows you to ignore the facts that I put forth and just whine about how I'm not nice enough to you.
If it wasnt for that you'd be reduced to posting nothing of value - oh, wait, you dont anyway.
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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.07.28 04:12:00 -
[45]
Jeez, Louise, you 2 knock it off. There are probably whole threads for trolling and flaming, please use this one for signing and sensible suggestion. Please.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.28 04:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Franken Slammer
Jeez, Louise, you 2 knock it off. There are probably whole threads for trolling and flaming, please use this one for signing and sensible suggestion. Please.
I suggest you train your skills. After you have all your missile level 5's you can complain.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.28 04:25:00 -
[47]
Before the mod squad busts in, i'll go out on a limb and 'fess up i like Blind's posts... ^^;
they make sensible counter-arguments, are mercifully concise and easy to read, and on top of it the delivery can be funny as heck. Like that box of chocolate, you never know what you're gonna get, but it's always a treat :s
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Franken Slammer
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Posted - 2005.07.28 04:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Franken Slammer
Jeez, Louise, you 2 knock it off. There are probably whole threads for trolling and flaming, please use this one for signing and sensible suggestion. Please.
I suggest you train your skills. After you have all your missile level 5's you can complain.
/me points to the first post. I am not complaining,; i'm asking for a little love for the 4th turret, that's all. Goodness gracious me.
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Creamster
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Posted - 2005.07.28 04:43:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Slithereen
I really like the new system now, but it still needs a little bit of tweaking.
-Warhead Upgrades should be a 3% increase
-There should be a midslot mod to increase explosive radius and a low slot version that is less effective.
-+3 and +5 Implants to improve missile velocity, navigation, ROF, range, and explosive radius.
-I agree on the heavy assault launcher.
-Reduction in missile storage space.
*signed*
Nice summary, all valid points. signed
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.28 04:58:00 -
[50]
Originally by: j0sephine
Before the mod squad busts in, i'll go out on a limb and 'fess up i like Blind's posts... ^^;
they make sensible counter-arguments, are mercifully concise and easy to read, and on top of it the delivery can be funny as heck. Like that box of chocolate, you never know what you're gonna get, but it's always a treat :s
Some of us are actually educated adults and dislike ill-mannered people.
These boards are to exchange opinions and the terms of service are actually very clear about the way to do it.
When someone has to disagree with a point (should he be wrong or right, since her point of vue is often biased if not completely flawed) it is possible to do it in a civilized way.
Some do not post here because they don't want to have to deal with immature flamers, that's not the way to build a community.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.28 05:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sorja
Some of us are actually educated adults and dislike ill-mannered people.
These boards are to exchange opinions and the terms of service are actually very clear about the way to do it.
When someone has to disagree with a point (should he be wrong or right, since her point of vue is often biased if not completely flawed) it is possible to do it in a civilized way.
You try and be civil to someone who argues with you that 1 + 1 in not 2 but 3.
There are some arguments that are educated both ways, this is not one of them.
Smartbombs and defenders are not viable missile defenses, if you say otherwise you accept that your IQ is that of the common goat.
________________________________________________________
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Calian
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Posted - 2005.07.28 05:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Meridius
Smartbombs and defenders are not viable missile defenses, if you say otherwise you accept that your IQ is that of the common goat.
I'd say you're very rude, were it not for the fact you didn't go so far as to say they'd have your IQ.
-------------------------
I hate everyone, except you. |
Shimrra
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Posted - 2005.07.28 06:21:00 -
[53]
Signed
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.28 07:20:00 -
[54]
Smartbombs are not anti missile anymore. Defenders...waste of sp now.
Blind Fear is right...and no amount of fingerpointing will change that. So get a life and a clue.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.28 07:21:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Calian
Originally by: Meridius
Smartbombs and defenders are not viable missile defenses, if you say otherwise you accept that your IQ is that of the common goat.
I'd say you're very rude, were it not for the fact you didn't go so far as to say they'd have your IQ.
Do you disagree with him then?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Sgt Spiff
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Posted - 2005.07.28 07:24:00 -
[56]
Missiles need to do full damage to stationary targets, no matter their size. That's the only change needed imo.
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ShadowlordUK
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Posted - 2005.07.28 07:44:00 -
[57]
Woot another 'please make the raven even more powerful thread' .
The simple answer to all these suggestions is simply that the raven (for all missile using ships read raven ) are already overpowered as they are currently.
Any new mods/improvements to skills/further improvements to missiles would have to be balanced out by a corresponding and equal nerf.
The game designers simply screwed up by making the raven too powerful at the start of the game, not releasing things like bcu 2's is the easy route they took to rebalance the game without upsetting all the newbs who think its their right to wtfpwn anything else in the game. 
I personally agree that missile users should have all these mods etc that people keep whining for, just as soon as long as they are happy to accept the massive nerf that would be needed at the same time....
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Icarus Thorne
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Posted - 2005.07.28 07:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
So get a life and a clue.
This is clearly an emotional reaction, not a reasoned one. It is not reasoned because this poster cannot be in a position to know anything about the life of the other posters "she" is attacking. It's a taunt worthy of a kindergarten recess, not an adult conversation.
Trying to get people who make statements like this to see reason is a waste of breath. They simply haven't attained the required state of maturity.
Just ignore them. (Although, unfortunately, they've proven that they won't go away).
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Citizen Angstrom
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Posted - 2005.07.28 08:21:00 -
[59]
/Signed.
Pointless hoping for much though... 
<- contines training Amarr BS to level 5... 
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.28 08:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Icarus Thorne
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
So get a life and a clue.
This is clearly an emotional reaction, not a reasoned one. It is not reasoned because this poster cannot be in a position to know anything about the life of the other posters "she" is attacking. It's a taunt worthy of a kindergarten recess, not an adult conversation.
Trying to get people who make statements like this to see reason is a waste of breath. They simply haven't attained the required state of maturity.
Just ignore them. (Although, unfortunately, they've proven that they won't go away).
Do you always take so long to make a point? Most people dont have that kind of time.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:15:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Sorja
Very fair point.
There's no smarbomb or defenders against turrets neither.
BCS II are long due, CCP said 'it's coming', God only knows when.
Smartbombs and defenders are nearly worthless for missile defense post-patch.
Tracking disruptors essentially disable turret-based battleships.
Still spouting half-truths I see.
Range mods designed to make missiles a long range weapon, this means that at long range, Defenders are still a viable option as you have plenty of warning to activate them.(smartbombs less so I admit, but I think their use against missiles was always a "player invention" rather than an intended use by the Devs)
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:32:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Grey Area on 28/07/2005 21:35:50
Y'know, I posted this thread a while back (here) and it got derailed (guess who by?).
Originally by: Slithereen
I really like the new system now, but it still needs a little bit of tweaking.
-Warhead Upgrades should be a 3% increase
-There should be a midslot mod to increase explosive radius and a low slot version that is less effective.
-+3 and +5 Implants to improve missile velocity, navigation, ROF, range, and explosive radius.
-I agree on the heavy assault launcher.
-Reduction in missile storage space.
-Low slot target painter. Not as effective as the midslot one.
*signed*
Agree with all the above...don't forget that Warhead Upgrades is a rank FIVE skill compared to Surgical strike being a rank FOUR, so I think it should actually be boosted to a 4% increase in damage to reflect this (no, no smiley, I'm deadly serious)
Here's a link to my suggestions for implants in the Game Development ideas forum
If we get explosion size reducing modules, I'm happy with there being an equivalent module to worsen the effect. If I know I'm going hunting an Apoc in a frig, I'll fit a turret disrupter. If I'm hunting a Raven, I SHOULD be able to fit a missile launcher disrupter. No, I don't want a module that jams both turrets AND missiles, as that goes back to the "cookie cutter" setups that so many people complained the Raven was guilty of. Plus it would be nice to be able to counter complaints of "Wah, Ravens hit my frigate for lots of damage now!" with a snotty comment of "Fit a (insert module name here) then", in the same way that they now tell US to fit target painters...
On the subject of which, target painter's suck, or are broken. They add 25% to hits on ALL targets with LARGE turrets, but add 10% damage to Torpedo hits on frigs and cruisers, and NO damage to Torpedo hits on Battleships or structures. Why?
While we're on the subject, can I add to the list; let Torpedoes do FULL damage to the structure of structures. At least then they would be useful for SOMEthing.
This petition is SO /signed
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:39:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Grey Area
Agree with all the above...don't forget that Warhead Upgrades is a rank FIVE skill compared to Surgical strike being a rank FOUR, so I think it should actually be boosted to a 4% increase in damage to reflect this (no, no smiley, I'm deadly serious)
Right and Torpedos is a rank 4 skill while large turret skills are all rank 5 so we should boost all turret damage by 5% right?
________________________________________________________
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loxxx
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:41:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Grey Area
Agree with all the above...don't forget that Warhead Upgrades is a rank FIVE skill compared to Surgical strike being a rank FOUR, so I think it should actually be boosted to a 4% increase in damage to reflect this (no, no smiley, I'm deadly serious)
Right and Torpedos is a rank 4 skill while large turret skills are all rank 5 so we should boost all turret damage by 5% right?
cruise missile is rank5 and torp rank4 so 4+5 vs 5 on turrets?
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:43:00 -
[65]
omg
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4seti
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:47:00 -
[66]
/signed
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.07.28 21:51:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Dryxonedes Sae on 28/07/2005 21:55:01
I don't know why people have a problem with defenders, i've used them in both PvP and PvE, they seem to work fairly well for me. Sure, they don't knock out every missile, but from a rocket launcher i can usually destroy 3-6 incomming missiles before the rocket launcher is empty. It's enough for a damage reduction if your tanking is starting to suffer a little, gives almost a second life.
Missed the /signed.....
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.28 22:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Meridius
Right and Torpedos is a rank 4 skill while large turret skills are all rank 5 so we should boost all turret damage by 5% right?
Must admit I hadn't noticed that...but hey, why not, as long as we get the extra 5% on Cruise Missiles which IS level 5
Personally, I think Cruise and Torps = wrong way round.
Of course the sensible thing would be to address the rank issue - but you can't do that once people have trained it...anything to try and "fix" it will of course be a jury-rigged solution. Though I'd be quite happy for CCP to reduce the higher of all equivalent skills down to the rank of the lower, and give me the difference in skill points to distribute as I choose. I won't hold my breath.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Uggster
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Posted - 2005.07.29 03:47:00 -
[69]
Though it pains me immeasurabley to say so Blind Fear is right.
I have watch in disbelif at the incredable antics of my defender missiles post patch, they go everywhere except to hit the missiles targeted at my ship, and if by a slim chance they chase a missile apparently def. lvl 3 (thank god i didnt waste more time) cant even catch a heavy or cruise missile.
Smarties dont work on missiles now due to command latency (not even lag but add a little of that and you can truely forget it)
However keeping missiles as a poor mans turret wont work either, up the missile potentual damage output (or lower everything else I honestly dont care which) but also provide some form of electronic anti missile counter (like chaff/flare/missile specific ECM with an X% chance of making the missiles miss or detonate to soon or whatever).
So in a way you are both right, or both wrong.
I however am right.
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:02:00 -
[70]
And here i thought this post was about the missiles changes.
I agree with this though, missiles users are lacking. If you're going to bring missiles up to par with turrets, then give the missiles users the same kind of stuff the turret users use.
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CANADIAN |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:36:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Sorja on 29/07/2005 04:36:04
Originally by: Uggster
my defender missiles ... go everywhere except to hit the missiles targeted at my ship, and if by a slim chance they chase a missile apparently def. lvl 3 (thank god i didnt waste more time) cant even catch a heavy or cruise missile.
At what range? There is a huge difference saying defenders have lost part of their efficiency or saying they are useless (as the anti-missiles lobby would like us to believe).
Quote:
Smarties dont work on missiles now due to command latency (not even lag but add a little of that and you can truely forget it)
Same as above, it is possible to nullify a whole missile fleet with smartbombs, provided a pilot is devoted to it, but it is not a 'I win' button in every situation.
Back on topic, there is a reason why CCP didn't release BCSII in the Cold War patch. I don't think the missile overhaul is carved in stone, there is room for improvement and balance (to say the least) so it seems quite logical they withheld BCS or implants or whatever.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:43:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 29/07/2005 04:45:51
Originally by: Sorja
Edited by: Sorja on 29/07/2005 04:36:04
Originally by: Uggster
my defender missiles ... go everywhere except to hit the missiles targeted at my ship, and if by a slim chance they chase a missile apparently def. lvl 3 (thank god i didnt waste more time) cant even catch a heavy or cruise missile.
At what range? There is a huge difference saying defenders have lost part of their efficiency or saying they are useless (as the anti-missiles lobby would like us to believe).
If someone is firing cruise missiles from 100k, you will destroy 1 missile per volley. This is reguardless of the number of defender launchers you have.
At 50k, youve got a 50/50 chance of taking out a single missile.
At sub-30k, defenders are totally worthless.
Lets see what range a tracking disruptor works at - wait, I think it's all of the above. Lets see how many shots it interdicts - wait, I think its all of them.
Defenders are useless. Arguing otherwise means that you're a brain-dead muppet. Originally by: Sorja
Same as above, it is possible to nullify a whole missile fleet with smartbombs, provided a pilot is devoted to it, but it is not a 'I win' button in every situation.
If you strap on 8 large smartbombs, it is mathamatically impossible for you to have complete missile defense.
Yeah, using up every highslot you own to get an incomplete and imperfect defense is an I Win button.
Again - brain-dead muppets need not reply to tell me how they can fire off a large smartbomb in the .66 second window where missiles are in its range.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:49:00 -
[73]
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.29 04:52:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Sorja
This is the smartest reply to anything you have ever made.
Go team forumnublets4tw!
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Calian
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Posted - 2005.07.29 06:02:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Sorja
This is the smartest reply to anything you have ever made.
Go team forumnublets4tw!
Wow, that's the first coherent reply I've ever seen you make... I guess someone finally posted something within the reach of your intellect.
Regardless, this isn't about if missile defenses are good or not, or how they stack up to tracking disruptors, so I won't even bother to say anything more about either. Missiles are sorely in need of more love though, that I will say for sure.
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I hate everyone, except you. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.08.01 08:06:00 -
[76]
*bump*
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.08.01 08:39:00 -
[77]
lol...
Nobody bothered to reply to this thread anymore because its stupid. Bumping it isnt going to make people agree with you.
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2005.08.01 09:01:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 01/08/2005 09:06:29
Something is kinda crap though with all of these changes. We were fighting Evolution yesterday, I was sitting 40-50km away from the battle with CM's. One of our Megathrons with 425's were sitting 15-20km away from a Bizzare's vagabond hitting him for 400 damage, but I was at 50km hitting for 71 damage pr devastator CM. Ok, so they Vagabond wouldnt be hit by the 425's if he was orbiting close, but how often do they do that beside in 1vs1 etc? The Raven woudlnt be doing enough damage to break any HAC's tank anyway, & probably do zero damage if the Vagabond was going full sleep anyway... SO regardless of range the Raven does crap damage against anything but battleships, while battleships still pwn from pretty close to long range as long as not being orbited very close up, but then ur m8 20km away could kill it anyway... YAY!
The damageformula should at least be dependent on transversal velocity and not absolute velocity. Makes a lot more sense than outrunning a blast anyway that its hitting badly because the missile didnt "track" enough, also there should be a way to multiply the transversla by the sig radius of the ship, where if the transversal is zero then the damage is full, that way you get a formula based on the transversal and modulated by a static factor, the sig radius...
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Crazy Klebon
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Posted - 2005.08.01 09:48:00 -
[79]
/Signed
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Prinz Eugen
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Posted - 2005.08.01 10:24:00 -
[80]
/Signed
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.08.01 12:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Selim
lol...
Nobody bothered to reply to this thread anymore because its stupid. Bumping it isnt going to make people agree with you.
The preceding three posts would seem to give the lie to that Selim.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Dave Toz
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Posted - 2005.08.01 13:01:00 -
[82]
I cant really comment on PVP as ive pulled out of that area of the game (cant afford to spend all my life sat on voicecomms waiting to be told either to safespot or that the opposition have turned round/logged)
What i can comment on is that i have spent alot of time flying a Cerberus and more recently the Muninn and Vagabond.
Ive now got the new missile skills up to lvl3 and am about 60 dmg per missile(this was a good shot) short of what i got pre patch, so imo there has been a damage nerf to missiles, this is just rubbing salt into the wound of Cerb pilots as they were way below the DoT of other HACs to start with.
The old counter argument used to be 'but you hit for max damage everytime' now you still hit everytime but you do naf all damage.
Now missiles dont do max damage everytime but evan if they did they would still be way below the DoT of similar turret based ships in their class
missiles are now left with evan lower DPS (no doubt it will be somewhere near the old lvls in ideal conditions and with max skills.)
im now firmly converted to the Vagabond and Munnin, ill test the Cerberus occasionally to see if its been fixed cos i love it dearly but atm its just an expencive ornament to decorate my hanger.
I dont have a problem with their being a variable damage rate depending on target size/speed, but i believe that the optimal damage should be on a par with other weapons of its class.
for example a cruiser should be taking similar DoT off heavy missiles as it is off the medium rails/lasers/proj
This imo is where the problem lies. think about it when did you last see a missile get a wrecking hit
This is my experience with Cerberus, and im assuming these charactoristics are the same through out the missile boats.
if not then ignore me :)
/Signed
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Markie
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Posted - 2005.08.01 13:20:00 -
[83]
I have not read the hole thread, but got to say I am totaly for T2 BCU, and assault heavy's. I also think that some type of mod to improve the damage, ie a module to improve the missile tracking/speed/range so they are more like turrets.
So Signed
CCP this is a good idea please don't pass it over
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.08.01 13:45:00 -
[84]
dont know what blind fear and her anti-missile lobby is still yapping about. Defenders work fine for me when i use my turret ships, against both cruise and torp ravens. Maybe it takes someone with a "brain of a muppet" or whatever Blind fear said, to use them correctly and actualy realise that the new missile skills matters for defenders too?
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.01 14:00:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Selim
lol...
Nobody bothered to reply to this thread anymore because its stupid. Bumping it isnt going to make people agree with you.
/signed.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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yourmama45
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Posted - 2005.08.01 17:15:00 -
[86]
So let me see (Pardon the pun):
Blindo teh Nublit thinks defenders should get boosted.. Now how would that effect, for example, the Cerberus?
Before BtN's change:
Cerberus < any other HAC
After BtN's change:
Cerberus << any other HAC
Puuuuhelease, It really doesn't matter that defenders suck, cause missiles suck even more.
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Hiram
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Posted - 2005.08.02 01:05:00 -
[87]
/signed.
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Nebuli
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Posted - 2005.08.02 01:57:00 -
[88]
Well my Dom with large rails completely owns my raven for damage on just about anything, frigs are dead before you turn on the 6th turret, raven im sat spamming missiles for about a minute to do the same thing, missiles are screwed totaly now, turrets dont have major probs hitting frigs unless there realy close, so I dont see why missiles should, my ravens totaly screwed, I realy should just blow it up and claim the insurance and get a megathron, but just cant seem to bring myself to do it.
My poor raven
/signed
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Marruni
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Posted - 2005.08.02 01:58:00 -
[89]
Signed
Marruni
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.08.02 03:35:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Seramis
But against Turrets u have Tracking disruptor. So if a module comes in that changes explosion radius effect would mean u get also a module that reduces Signature radius as counterpart. For rducing the explosion radius effect we already have Target Painter. I use Missiles all the time, but most suggestions are only stupid. Tech II Modules like BC, Implants for more damage, more missile speed, more flight time, all ok, but a module that reduces explosion radius effect is not needed because it is already there (Target Painter).
Well if they ever relase the once planned stealth mod theres your counter measure...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.08.02 04:59:00 -
[91]
Missiles need love about as much as Alaskans need bikinis.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Citizen Angstrom
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Posted - 2005.08.02 07:19:00 -
[92]
/Signed
But I don't see it happening. CCP are working on a 'conservation of pain' basis I believe. This means that since missiles were 'too good' for more than a year prior to nerf, we should expect them to be allowed to fester for a year before being repaired or adjusted again...
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2005.08.02 09:22:00 -
[93]
Just fix the skills so that they are either reduced in lvl or increase them in percentage bonus & start working on a new forumla so we dont do 0 damage to stationary targets...
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.08.02 09:30:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cinnander
One compromise however... Tracking-Disruptor-like mod for missiles... make them heavier, or slower, whatever, but some activated module that you put on a targetted missile user to take the edge of their missiles ability to find, follow or hit your ship.
How about No? Defenders + speed are all the defense you need. Besides why should doing something to the launching ship effect a weapon which after launch is self-quided?
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.08.02 15:28:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Alacrity
How about halfing the weight of torps to compensate us for the extra we need to use now
al shudit lol
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