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GalacticViceroy
Astral Command Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone. We need a new system to measure the repair amount. Just like killmails. if we measure the repair amount then logi pilots will be gained the success measurement system. |

baltec1
Bat Country
5281
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
You need better pilots. We almost never have a shortage of logi pilots. |

Abrazzar
822
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Then I also want the miner who made the minerals, the manufacturer of the modules and the trader that sold the ammunition on a killmail, too, like every other kill enabler that isn't directly involved in the kill. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
325
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You need better pilots. We almost never have a shortage of logi pilots.
I would of though more friends would be the answer. I am not sure why better pilots make his shortage of logi go away. |

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1077
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
My alliance typically fields almost twice as many logistics ships in a fight than we do combat ships. It's a deficiency of the people you fly with. |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2204
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stop flying with a bunch of killmail whores and start flying with a bunch of people who know what the hell 'teamwork' really means. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Dheeradj Nurgle
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
243
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Your fleets consist of Terrible players then? Your Pilots suck, fly with better players instead of KM Whores. |

Merouk Baas
562
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
No, he's saying he wants healing meters. He already has DPS meters via the killboards (he can tell who did the most DPS), but killboards don't support healing meters, and he'd like to see which of the logi pilots actually repair damage and which don't do squat.
To the OP, as if bringing an expensive logi ship to your sucky fleet is any joy. Also, when is the last time you said "thank you" to them, or "good job logis." |

Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1261
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 19:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
GalacticViceroy wrote:to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone. We need a new system to measure the repair amount. Just like killmails. if we measure the repair amount then logi pilots will be gained the success measurement system.
There is. The one that wins the battle is the one with the best logi pilots. That's all the metric you need. |

Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
199
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
It depends where you're coming from.
If you're talking incursions, I can't see (apart from the lack of training) the resistance in flying logis, it's the cheapest way to get into a fleet, and doesn't cost you ammo while you're in it for the same reward as a guy firing T2 ammo.
If you're talking PvP fights, then maybe logis get frustrated by late broadcasts, being quick to die, and because they don't bring any fire to the firefight, being under appreciated.
I've flown logi a few times, I've got a logi char that can do armor, shield, and can fly all 4 races so it gives the best choice depending on what the flavour of the month is.
But don't forget, a lot of PvP'ers are killmail whores, so they've got no interest in spending ages training up something that won't get them on the mail.
Plus, if you're flying a combat ship it's quite acceptable to fly it without max skills, but most logi fits are so tightly worked that you need to have a lot of level 5 skills to get them to work.
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4runner
Eternal Profiteers Eternal Syndicate
15
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Posted - 2013.02.18 20:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
When Logis do great job nobody cares but as soon as they make mistakes they get shouted at |

Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
64
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Posted - 2013.02.18 20:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:My alliance typically fields almost twice as many logistics ships in a fight than we do combat ships. It's a deficiency of the people you fly with.
... what you mean by this is that every pilot in your alliance has 2 neutral logistics alts. its not the same thing. |

Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
131
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Posted - 2013.02.18 22:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
In every game ever most people want to to be a DPS and not a healer/tank.
What I think they should do it make logi apear on killmail of any ship they have repped. |

Arronicus
Brave Newbies Inc.
210
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Posted - 2013.02.18 22:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
GalacticViceroy wrote: if we measure the repair amount then logi pilots will be gained the success measurement system.
Wrong forum. I believe you meant to post here: http://www.engrish.com/ |

Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
He's speaking to us in our language because we're too stupid to understand him in his. So, you make a comment implying the deficiency is his. That no make-uh sense . . . in any language.
To the original point, there is no way to measure all the things that go into a kill (or a failure to get a kill). You'd have to measure how many jams were successful, how much energy was neutralized, what level of efficiency each module in the fight was being used at, whether some dude in a Machariel was bumping one of the combatants, etc., etc., etc. A simpler solution would be to remove the "damage done" and "final blow" metrics from killmails and just list the parties involved. It's all about teamwork, after all. Am I right? |

Hixeppa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Logis = alts ships. |

Rain6637
Team Evil
475
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
year 1: perfect core skills, perfect basilisk pilot. next four months: cross train into perfect racial logis.
landing reps before someone asks for it, especially when they're not used to having reps feels kinda good.
on comms,"oh yeah... rain is here."
yeah baby http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3113
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 01:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
GalacticViceroy wrote:to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone.
So find pilots to fly logistics for you who love playing healers in other games and aren't slaves to their K/D ratio. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
693
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 01:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
True that. I'm sure I'm not alone in taking pride in making murder possible, even if I didn't get on the km. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |

Rain6637
Team Evil
476
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 02:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
hah. i was a medic in the Army. a l337 one. expert shot, perfect PT score. I was in the shower just now, and thinking it might take the psychology of a selfless and aggressive person to make a good logi. http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |
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Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
217
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:He's speaking to us in our language because we're too stupid to understand him in his. So, you make a comment implying the deficiency is his. That no make-uh sense . . . in any language.
Speak for yourself, we aren't ALL incompetent in other languages. I must admit, I am amused to the level of offence you took at my joke. |

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1079
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dark Drifter wrote:... what you mean by this is that every pilot in your alliance has 2 neutral logistics alts. its not the same thing. How is pilots flying logistics ships not the same as pilots flying logistics ships? |

Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1970
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thats what happens when you worry about killboard stats, dipshit. Hello again, friends. |

baltec1
Bat Country
5297
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Posted - 2013.02.19 08:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
4runner wrote:When Logis do great job nobody cares but as soon as they make mistakes they get shouted at
We always give our logi a pat on the back after a big fight. |

Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
803
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 09:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:GalacticViceroy wrote:to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone. So find pilots to fly logistics for you who love playing healers in other games and aren't slaves to their K/D ratio. I'm someone who really, really enjoys playing healers in other games, I regularly fly logistics in EVE - and I hate it.
Logistics in EVE is like playing a healer class with a single spell and infinite mana.
What makes healing in other games challenging/interesting is balancing throughput vs mana and absorbs vs predictive healing vs reactive healing.
(In pvp another aspect of healing is to draw the enemies' attention and make him use his cc & long cooldown spells via fake casting, your often powerful self protection skills, ...)
In EVE all your logistics setups are cap stable, the only throughput-related decision you can make is when to overheat, absorbs don't exist at all and while predictive healing would be desirable in armor fleets the reality is that incoming damage is applied almost instantly (and without a predictable pattern) and fleets are too large for logis to do more than to react to (late) broadcasts.
I wish CCP would at least give us some "extreme throughput that will drain your cap within seconds" option to make logistics more interesting to fly. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |

Dheeradj Nurgle
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
247
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Posted - 2013.02.19 09:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
4runner wrote:When Logis do great job nobody cares but as soon as they make mistakes they get shouted at
Then you have terrible pilots. Logi will ******* do everything to keep you alive. If you can't grasp that, you should just be reduced to flying frigates. |

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1083
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 11:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
4runner wrote:When Logis do great job nobody cares but as soon as they make mistakes they get shouted at When my Bhaalgorn a) Has cap and b) Does not explode I am typically pretty grateful.
It isn't CCPs job to correct the crappy attitude of your corpmates. |

Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
97
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Posted - 2013.02.19 12:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rain6637 other games [:=d wrote: i was a medic in the Army. a l337 one. expert shot, perfect PT score. ... snip ... i DIGRESS. GOOD TIMES
It must be a state of mind thing - I'm also ex-military field medic and my FW character is focussed on logi.
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Dante Uisen
Push button receive bacon
72
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Posted - 2013.02.19 13:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
I once played i game that has a meter that showed the damage and healer done by the players, it was pretty cool.
The meter was so awesome that we send as much time analyzing the numbers as we did playing the game, why spend time killing the dragon and saving the princess when you can analyze numbers and whine and shout about how much everyone sucks... |

Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1268
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 13:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:True that. I'm sure I'm not alone in taking pride in making murder possible, even if I didn't get on the km.
Yep, besides that's what ECM drones are for...
The logi pilot knows he's an integral part of the team. If fleet-mates broadcast on time and the alpha isn't so bad, logi will turn defeat into victory. Any fleet with logi that dies is because it didn't have enough logi to take on the threat - and that's the FC's problem not logi's problem. Serious people won't even undock until they reach a certain logi:dps ratio. |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1008
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Posted - 2013.02.19 13:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:True that. I'm sure I'm not alone in taking pride in making murder possible, even if I didn't get on the km. Yep, besides that's what ECM drones are for... The logi pilot knows he's an integral part of the team. If fleet-mates broadcast on time and the alpha isn't so bad, logi will turn defeat into victory. Any fleet with logi that dies is because it didn't have enough logi to take on the threat - and that's the FC's problem not logi's problem. Serious people won't even undock until they reach a certain logi:dps ratio.
I was in a fail alliance, and they never grasped the concept of logi needing to be MINIMUM of 25% of a fleet. Darkside or PL would come calling with a ratio of 30% or better, and even though we had superior overall numbers, we would get hammered. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
390
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Posted - 2013.02.19 22:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:There is. The one that wins the battle is the one with the best logi pilots. That's all the metric you need. I can't even begin to tell you how untrue that is. Better logi is better, sure, but there are so many mitigating factors that it is entirely possible, in fact common, for crap logi to not cause a failure. It's also rather common (in PVP) for good logi to die horribly. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |

Krazynikomo
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
38
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Posted - 2013.02.19 23:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
GalacticViceroy wrote:to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone. We need a new system to measure the repair amount. Just like killmails. if we measure the repair amount then logi pilots will be gained the success measurement system.
How about you stop recruiting morons who care about killboards and recruit smart people? |

Vigo Carpath
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2013.02.19 23:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
GalacticViceroy wrote:to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone. We need a new system to measure the repair amount. Just like killmails. if we measure the repair amount then logi pilots will be gained the success measurement system.
Killmails don't measure anything. I'm terrible and my KB is well in the green |

Nog Sidewinder
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 23:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote: To the OP, as if bringing an expensive logi ship to your sucky fleet is any joy. Also, when is the last time you said "thank you" to them, or "good job logis."
That sucks, I hear praise of logi both during the fight on a good save, and afterwards from FC and others, on every single fleet that brings them along. |

Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
393
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 23:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Then I also want the miner who made the minerals, the manufacturer of the modules and the trader that sold the ammunition on a killmail, too, like every other kill enabler that isn't directly involved in the kill.
Eh, thats different. Those guys arent directly responsible for the outcome of a conflict. Logistics can be the difference between winning and losing a battle.
As a side note: Why are they called Logistics pilots anyway? I thought Logistics meant Shipping? Since when did it mean repair? I mean, when I think of Logistics, I think of either
1. UPS 2. My S4 department in the Marines that dealt moving stuff from A --> B "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |

Rain6637
Team Evil
483
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Then I also want the miner who made the minerals, the manufacturer of the modules and the trader that sold the ammunition on a killmail, too, like every other kill enabler that isn't directly involved in the kill. Eh, thats different. Those guys arent directly responsible for the outcome of a conflict. Logistics can be the difference between winning and losing a battle.
iunno, i thought it was a valid point, actually.
//logi proof: this is a main
(the two newest characters are on that fast track to perfect multi racial logi that I mentioned in my first post of this thread) http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

Hamatitio
Aperture Harmonics K162
94
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Posted - 2013.02.20 03:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Reward your logis with extra spoils from victory.
edit: and pay for their ships :) |

Rain6637
Team Evil
484
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Posted - 2013.02.20 08:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
fact checking time: the 18 out of 241 medics who earned the Expert Field Medical Badge are listed at the bottom of this news release pdf. CCP folks on the forums can find my name among them, which is the same as my account info including email.
just for who is interested. because it's not a small issue when people claim "false valor" and the EFMB is earned by less than 1% of US Army medics. http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

ChaseX
The Executives Executive Outcomes
24
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Posted - 2013.02.20 09:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Degren wrote:Thats what happens when you worry about killboard stats, dipshit.
what he said. flying logistics is fun for me and i couldn't care less about killmails or people that require killboard links for e-fame.
Rain6637 wrote:fact checking time: the 18 out of 241 medics who earned the Expert Field Medical Badge are listed at the bottom of this news release pdf. CCP folks on the forums can find my name among them, which is the same as my account info including email. just for who is interested. because it's not a small issue when people claim "false valor" and the EFMB is earned by less than 1% of US Army medics.
does anyone here actually care? don't think so |
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Rain6637
Team Evil
484
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Posted - 2013.02.20 10:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
I do. I like when people quantify their claims and show proof. http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

Chenlab
Wise Guys Tribal Band
2
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Posted - 2013.02.20 10:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
I couldn't help but role my eyes!! |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1313
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 12:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
GalacticViceroy wrote:to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone. We need a new system to measure the repair amount. Just like killmails. if we measure the repair amount then logi pilots will be gained the success measurement system.
Or you could just assist your drones to a combat pilot and end up on mails, idk which sounds easier, new coding or you learning game mechanics.... |

Rain6637
Team Evil
484
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 18:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
there's so much character in this thread, I just... I'm so glad to meet such great people http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

Rain6637
Team Evil
486
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 22:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
there's so much character in this thread, I just... I'm so glad to meet such great people
ChaseX wrote:
does anyone here actually care? don't think so
.oh you care. you just don't like it.
Chenlab wrote:I couldn't help but role my eyes!!
guys i wanna say you made my day with the hate. every time i sense hate, this song plays in my head, and i -really- like this song. haters gonna hate
&**(^(*&(^ double posted again **(^(*& that is -so- uncool, AND this is my villainous monologue! http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

ChaseX
The Executives Executive Outcomes
25
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Posted - 2013.02.21 07:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
typical u.s. egocentric view. i just can tell you, there is not much left on the world i clould care less about than your whatever badge in the army. it is sad enough that we (mankind) need to fight wars and it is even more sad that people like you are proud about it.
people like you will call me whatever cause i don't like the army and i rather wipe old peoples asses before i will do military service but maybe you should just open up your mental horizon to more than your u.s. "superstate". |

Rain6637
Team Evil
487
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 08:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
I didn't call you anything, just pointing out that you cared enough to post about something.
my mind's tellin me noooo but my body, my body's tellin me yeyyyeessss http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2979
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 08:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:My alliance typically fields almost twice as many logistics ships in a fight than we do combat ships. It's a deficiency of the people you fly with.
Tiny alliance with a bunch of logi alts =/= large alliance filling strategic fleets.
That said, you can always set up a high SP requirement doctrine. I think the line DPS / support ratio on HBC Foxcat fleets is something like 1 / 4.
That, or just stop branding yourself as a "leet pvp" group. Those groups tend to attract KM whores and ganker types, not what you're looking for. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
972
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 16:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Oxandrolone wrote:In every game ever most people want to to be a DPS and not a healer/tank.
What I think they should do it make logi apear on killmail of any ship they have repped.
You know the great thing about this game? You can be both...and sometimes at the same time. Carry drones for christ's sake! We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |

Bane Veradun
Black Sun Dawning
3
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Posted - 2013.02.21 17:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Stop using kill mails as a measurement. They are not important, this has been proven. While you only co-opt the darkness for your petty purposes, I was borne of the darkness.
Malcanis for CSM 8 |
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
266
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Posted - 2013.02.21 21:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
You need pilots.
You have killmail whores.
See the differance? |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
606
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 21:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:My alliance typically fields almost twice as many logistics ships in a fight than we do combat ships. It's a deficiency of the people you fly with.
Or a choice.
You either like that game style or you don't. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
609
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 22:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
GalacticViceroy wrote:to find logistic pilots getting harder in fleet. Because the kills more important to repair someone. We need a new system to measure the repair amount. Just like killmails. if we measure the repair amount then logi pilots will be gained the success measurement system.
shut up
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7761
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 22:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:4runner wrote:When Logis do great job nobody cares but as soon as they make mistakes they get shouted at We always give our logi a pat on the back after a big fight.
Same in INIT. In fact I remember the incredible day when our FC actually said "no more logis, guys, we have enough".
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |

Rain6637
Team Evil
495
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 00:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
hah. or you could just... field a drone DPS logi fleet http://themittani.com/ | http://evenews24.com/ || Vincent Athena-á||-áflycatcher waaaaat |

Diamond Bull
State War Academy Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 05:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
4runner wrote:When Logis do great job nobody cares but as soon as they make mistakes they get shouted at
That is the "healing" role in a nut shell no matter what game it is.
The few times I went to big fleets I went as a Logi and felt like we (as a group) were getting **** on. That was alliance level. My corp is pretty cool. The few times I used Logi with them I go some praise for saving the shield tanked Onyx with my duel boxed guardians and pissing off some random guys who thought they should be able to kill him. Was fun!
My experience with other MMOs is that meters, DPS or Healing, can go two ways. Either it will increase competition to be the best and therefore performance or it will create a culture of people yelling at the last place folks. I encourage the former but Eve is pretty much all about being an ******* so I imagine it would end up the latter. |

Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1987
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 05:07:00 -
[57] - Quote
Diamond Bull wrote:4runner wrote:When Logis do great job nobody cares but as soon as they make mistakes they get shouted at That is the "healing" role in a nut shell no matter what game it is.
Only if you have incompetent leaders that don't realize the importance of healers.
I try to be understanding when people talk about this stuff, but really....REALLY...all I hear is 'mad cause bad' OP is bored/outraged/emotional? -áCheck. -áOP is in high sec? -áCheck. -áOP is in NPC or solo corp? -áCheck. -áOP demands CCP fix the situation? -áCheck. -áLaugh at OP |
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