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Hulks & Mackinaws without a sensible tank.

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Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 2	Posted - 2013.02.25 09:47:00 - [1] - Quote First of all I will state that this is not a troll and merely an encouragement for miners to implement a sensible tank on their mining vessels. Please be aware that a small shield extender and a small shield booster is NOT a sensible tank. This comment is solely directed at pilots of Hulks & Mackinaws. I bumped into my old friend from [TEST] yesterday whom was on one of his visits to high-sec to peruse the mining belts in search of untanked Hulks & Mackinaws. While I was speaking to him he found a lot of Hulks and Mackinaws, some with Orca support in small mining fleets, and a fair few of these Hulks & Mackinaws were sent to the miners graveyard. He showed me the kill mails as he did this and most of them had either no tanking modules or rigs at all or at best feeble tanks with small extender/booster and no resistance modules at all. In addition some of these vessels appeared to be 'afk' but I do not wish to discuss that problem here. I realise that 'bumping' may be felt to be the greater risk nowadays than being ganked but be reassured that piloting a Hulk or Mackinaw without a sensible tank vastly increases your chance of losing your ship. I am interested in the reasoning behind not fitting a tank to your expensive mining vessel. Is it one of the following: 1) I am lazy and couldn't be bothered. 2) I can't afford to fit one. 3) I didn't think Hulks & Mackinaws were ganked anymore. 4) I thought the mining rebalancing/crimewatch changes meant I couldn't be ganked now. 5) I thought 'bumping' was the new ganking. 6) I thought a small extender & booster was enough. (You know who you are. ). 7) Another reason. All of the above are incorrect assumptions or bad reasons for not fitting a sensible tank. I'm not personally a fan of ganking BUT if you fly without a sensible tank YOU DESERVE to be ganked. Nuff said. PS This is post is designed to be in the S & I section as miners frequent this board.
Dave Stark 1861	Posted - 2013.02.25 10:08:00 - [2] - Quote 7) because i bet i can store my hulk in my orca quicker than you can pop it. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1008	Posted - 2013.02.25 10:10:00 - [3] - Quote 7) I've spent all of my time in Eve mining and wouldn't know how to properly fit a ship if you held a gun to my head "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Dave Stark 1861	Posted - 2013.02.25 10:11:00 - [4] - Quote oh also, good luck fitting anything other than a small extender when you only have about 7 powergrid left. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Dave Stark 1861	Posted - 2013.02.25 10:17:00 - [5] - Quote also, let me demonstrate via the medium of napkin maths how much of a ******** idea it is go give up your low slots for tank and/or fitting modules. difference between a 0 mlu hulk and a 3 mlu throwaway retriever, 2%. so for 2% yield loss i can have a ship i don't have to pay attention to, less issues with crystal storage space, the same yield (which, it will be, since i don't short cycle asteroids), and not a single care given if it gets popped (which, it won't because it's not a big enough target to have some one pad their killboard with it) edit: none of my profanity seems to be being filtered lately... strange. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Carniflex StarHunt 35	Posted - 2013.02.25 10:18:00 - [6] - Quote Well, TBH, you cant really tank hulks and macks, or retrivers and that other large barge. Or yeah, you can put something on them, but all that changes is that it wil take 2 dessies instead of one to gank it or if solo the ganker just has to use Vextor instead. so with that out of the way the miner has not much point sacrificing the yield byt 10% or more while STILL going down when attacked. So they dont. They just cross their fingers and hope that its not that day when their number comes up. Statistically, most of the time, they are right. Unless someone takes into their head to pop one specific miner every few days in which case should he petition there might, or might not be a discussion with GM about what can be considered "harassing". Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Sergeant major Axterd State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.02.25 10:42:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: [Mackinaw, HERP YIELD] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Yield : 1.3k EHP : 14.5k Quote: [Mackinaw, DERP TANK] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Damage Control II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Yield : 1.2k EHP : 30.3k Additional cost : ~10M ISK 8) NO EXCUSES ! "THAT SENTENCE HAD TOO MANY SYLLABLES ! APOLOGIZE !"
Dave Stark 1861	Posted - 2013.02.25 11:13:00 - [8] - Quote Sergeant major Axterd wrote: Quote: [Mackinaw, HERP YIELD] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Yield : 1.3k EHP : 14.5k Quote: [Mackinaw, DERP TANK] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Damage Control II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Yield : 1.2k EHP : 30.3k Additional cost : ~10M ISK 8) NO EXCUSES ! retriever with 3 mlus 3.6% more yield, about 20% of the cost. PLENTY OF EXCUSES starting with; why pay more and receive less? "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Sergeant major Axterd State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.02.25 11:40:00 - [9] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: retriever with 3 mlus 3.6% more yield, about 20% of the cost. PLENTY OF EXCUSES starting with; why pay more and receive less? also your ehp on your first mackinaw fit is way off. which implies your second fit is also wrong. YOU'RE THINKING ! THAT'S ILLEGAL ! On a more serious tone, just by putting a DC and an Invulnerabitlity Field on your Retriever you'll be on the bottom of the ganker's list (because there will always be other untanked ships around). It all depends on the system you're mining in, if you're in a fairly safe one, then there is barely no need to tank your Retriver, as you said. "THAT SENTENCE HAD TOO MANY SYLLABLES ! APOLOGIZE !"
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance 880	Posted - 2013.02.25 11:58:00 - [10] - Quote Yield. That's the only reason. You don't have to worry about rats in empire. In null I have a substandard tank but it really doesn't matter, I get caught there I'm going to lose my hulk regardless. Funny you say a small extender and a shield booster doesn't make a tank...that's what I use but I can usually tank BS rats solo with it heh. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!

Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 1599	Posted - 2013.02.25 14:25:00 - [11] - Quote Zifrian wrote: Yield. That's the only reason. You don't have to worry about rats in empire. It's not the rats I worry about in hisec. Anyways, one can buy nearly 6 Covetors that yield 8% more than a tanked Hulk (both low slots used for tanking), for the price of a single Hulk. A Hulk with a single MLU II is only +1% better, and 2 MLU II for +10% make a Hulk rather weak.
Fluffi Flaffi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2013.02.25 15:28:00 - [12] - Quote Mackinaw with 2x MLU + DC is as good as a Mackinaw with 3x MLU! You know why, because Mackinaw is mainly used for mainly afk-mining due to it's big ore cargo hold. So I don't care about theoretically (!) max yield. I check my miner from time to time and if strip miner has finished I just put it on a new asteroid. So while using to have nearly doubled EHP most gankers will not engage me as I am not on their list, like thread opener explained, because they can destroy 2 Mackinaws with the same amount of destroyers than my ones! So most do not care about my exhumers, even when they stay in a system in a belt afk for 2-3 hours when I just forget them. And if you / I don't mine afk I use Hulks in mining fleets. And for them max yield may count most times, but even then you can put some tank on them, not much, but some! I prefer not to mine in well frequented systems and I avoid systems with ICE belts, because often gankers will be looking there first and they often promise easy targets. In 2.5 years I had never to bother any gank attack except during Hulkageddon 2 times which I by the way survived as well as those who tried didn't used ship scannes before. I am sure about this, otherwise they should have been aware in advance, that their attempts where condemned to fail 100%.
Dave Stark 1861	Posted - 2013.02.25 15:33:00 - [13] - Quote Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Mackinaw with 2x MLU + DC is as good as a Mackinaw with 3x MLU! opening with a statement as stupid as that is the fastest way to get people to not take you seriously, just so you're aware. mainly because it just isn't true. because if that were the case, MLUs would be irrelevant. however, they aren't. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Fluffi Flaffi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2013.02.25 15:37:00 - [14] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Mackinaw with 2x MLU + DC is as good as a Mackinaw with 3x MLU! opening with a statement as stupid as that is the fastest way to get people to not take you seriously, just so you're aware. mainly because it just isn't true. because if that were the case, MLUs would be irrelevant. however, they aren't. Being as ignorant to not read the explaination why makes you look like you think no end of yourself! if you mine 100% active including checking your Survey Scanner every strip miner cycle yes, a 3rd MLU makes sense. But a lot of Retrievers / Makinaws in the belts doesn't work that way. Easy to recognise when their strip miners are not working for a period of time. So next time first read. And by the way: Your stupid 3.6% better Retriever compared to a tanked Mackinaw is far more senseless. A Mackinaw has a much higher cargo space, therefore can stay much longer in the belt without unloading! This increases it's real yield and in addition to that it is tanked and is not on the list of gankes like the friend of thread opener! And if you compare it to a 3x MLU Mackinaw, what makes sense your answer is even more useless. And if we take into consideration how often a miner is ganked in his eve-career if he following some simple rules, your answer is ... you know what I mean.
Susanoo Miza Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.02.25 17:58:00 - [15] - Quote This is my tank on a Mack which I use afk while playing with my main. Mack: Low slot: Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Mid slot: Medium Shield Extender II EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II High Slot: Ice Harvester II Ice Harvester II Rigs: Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I with max fitting skills you still need a 4% CPU implant Had 4 destroyers try to take me out in a 0.5 Gallente system, tank went down to 65% shield, then they got popped by Concord. Yes, I know my yield sucks, but that is no concern to me.
Thelodas MoG Republic 7	Posted - 2013.02.25 20:37:00 - [16] - Quote [Mackinaw, Mining] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II [empty low slot] Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II EM Ward Amplifier II Survey Scanner II Modulated Strip Miner II, Modulated Strip Miner II, Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 25,543 EHP This survived a well fit 3 box catalyst team in .6 space. Got down to 80% hull before concord vaporized them. I won't field a mack until the toon in question can fit at least all the T1 versions of the respective fittings.
Dave Stark 1865	Posted - 2013.02.25 23:09:00 - [17] - Quote Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Being as ignorant to not read the explaination why makes you look like you think no end of yourself! i did read it, your post got considerably worse the longer you spend reading it. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Haste Renalard H.A.W.K. 0	Posted - 2013.02.26 02:03:00 - [18] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Being as ignorant to not read the explaination why makes you look like you think no end of yourself! i did read it, your post got considerably worse the longer you spend reading it. you're still using a more expensive ship, to mine slower. just a quick thing for you to think about; if my idea about the retriever is so bad, why is around 1/3 of all high sec ore mined in a retriever? Because Ret's are a lot less time to train than a Mack/Hulk is? Ret's are a more newbie friendly mining ship. Plus a lot of botters / multi boxers use ret's because its less training time and they are running 3+ miners at once anyways
Dave Stark 1866	Posted - 2013.02.26 07:33:00 - [19] - Quote Haste Renalard wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Being as ignorant to not read the explaination why makes you look like you think no end of yourself! i did read it, your post got considerably worse the longer you spend reading it. you're still using a more expensive ship, to mine slower. just a quick thing for you to think about; if my idea about the retriever is so bad, why is around 1/3 of all high sec ore mined in a retriever? Because Ret's are a lot less time to train than a Mack/Hulk is? Ret's are a more newbie friendly mining ship. Plus a lot of botters / multi boxers use ret's because its less training time and they are running 3+ miners at once anyways i'm not sure i believe 1/3 of high sec miners are less than what, 3 months old? i mean, really? do you believe that? "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Fluffi Flaffi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.02.26 09:36:00 - [20] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Haste Renalard wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Being as ignorant to not read the explaination why makes you look like you think no end of yourself! i did read it, your post got considerably worse the longer you spend reading it. you're still using a more expensive ship, to mine slower. just a quick thing for you to think about; if my idea about the retriever is so bad, why is around 1/3 of all high sec ore mined in a retriever? Because Ret's are a lot less time to train than a Mack/Hulk is? Ret's are a more newbie friendly mining ship. Plus a lot of botters / multi boxers use ret's because its less training time and they are running 3+ miners at once anyways i'm not sure i believe 1/3 of high sec miners are less than what, 3 months old? i mean, really? do you believe that? Yes! And it's exactly more or less the ratio in our corp. All the ones, who are not focusing on mining have trained mining barge to Level 3 or 4 and when the mine from time to time they use Retriever and especially at the beginning when every ISK counts you do not invest in Mackinaw for a few % more yield. For them as trader, explorer, mission runner or whatsoever it's not worth to train Exhumers, expecially not in the beginning. They just skill rapidly Mining Barge to attend mining operations or do some afk-isk-mining when they are not at the keyboard. As stated above already: You are ignorant. And now just stop posting bullshit. You didn't even replied to one of my points why your replies are just plain dumb. I know why, because you know I am right in every single point, but you can't accept that as you think you are Mr. Eve. And I use a more expensive ship when mining afk to mine more (because of higher ore cargo hold!!!) not because it mines a little slower. And when I mine actively it is mining much more than your simple retriever fit. But this I have explained already in detail above. Seems you are too dumb or too ignorant to understand and accept this. Sorry for being so direct.

Skorpynekomimi 459	Posted - 2013.02.26 11:28:00 - [21] - Quote I tank everything I fly. Even my undock-setting frigate has a set of passive resists fitted in case someone takes a potshot.
Carniflex StarHunt 35	Posted - 2013.02.26 14:04:00 - [22] - Quote Well - more realistic Mack setup is something on the lines of [Mackinaw, AFK_Tanki] Damage Control II 2x Mining Laser Upgrade II (or ice) Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Upgraded Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I 2x Strip Miner I (or Ice miner II) Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator I Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I i.e., not shield extender rigs but the ice and cpu ones. Granted some people dont mine ice at all, but as its very afk friendly activity many who do use the "afk" barges also use ice rigs. Thats approx 32,5k ehp against kin/thermal. A gank vextor does approx ~930 dps (Neutron blasters with null, 3x Ogre II) - that would give it survivability of approx 35 seconds against single vextor. Without the damage control the ehp of a Mack drops to ~24k against kin/therm if you try to tank the mids within the cpu you have. Thats ~26 sec - still plenty for the COCORD to come even in sec 0.5. A gank catalyst does approx 600 dps. Pair of them against tanky mack ~27 sec. Three of them ~18 sec (getting there in sec 0.5 probably) and four would take down tanked mack in 13.5 sec, thats already pretty reliable in most of the hi sec. Against non-tanky mack it would mean ~20 sec for pair of catalysts, not quiiite enough, so three would be needed with some time to spare. So what does this mean in simple terms. (1) Single Vextor - not quite enough for taking down mack, with our without damage control if mids are a bit tanked. (2) Pair of catalysts - not quite enough for taking down a mack, although the one without damage control gets deep into hull. (3) Pair of Vextors or thee catalysts - the mack will go down, propbably, tanked or otherwise. With damage control its close call, might survive with sliver of hull, might not. Without damage control it will go down, no questions there. (4) Anything more - it will go down, tanked or not. Retris are made of wet towels. You can "tank" it all you want but all it does for you is that the ganker will need to use vextor instead of catalyst, or pair of catalysts, if they want to have enough time to pop the pod as well. Retris top out at approx 16k EHP. That is enough for single Vextor to take down. If its without damage control then single catalyst is sufficient. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Dave Stark 1866	Posted - 2013.02.26 15:33:00 - [23] - Quote Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Haste Renalard wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Being as ignorant to not read the explaination why makes you look like you think no end of yourself! i did read it, your post got considerably worse the longer you spend reading it. you're still using a more expensive ship, to mine slower. just a quick thing for you to think about; if my idea about the retriever is so bad, why is around 1/3 of all high sec ore mined in a retriever? Because Ret's are a lot less time to train than a Mack/Hulk is? Ret's are a more newbie friendly mining ship. Plus a lot of botters / multi boxers use ret's because its less training time and they are running 3+ miners at once anyways i'm not sure i believe 1/3 of high sec miners are less than what, 3 months old? i mean, really? do you believe that? Yes! And it's exactly more or less the ratio in our corp. All the ones, who are not focusing on mining have trained mining barge to Level 3 or 4 and when the mine from time to time they use Retriever and especially at the beginning when every ISK counts you do not invest in Mackinaw for a few % more yield. For them as trader, explorer, mission runner or whatsoever it's not worth to train Exhumers, expecially not in the beginning. They just skill rapidly Mining Barge to attend mining operations or do some afk-isk-mining when they are not at the keyboard. As stated above already: You are ignorant. And now just stop posting bullshit. You didn't even replied to one of my points why your replies are just plain dumb. I know why, because you know I am right in every single point, but you can't accept that as you think you are Mr. Eve. And I use a more expensive ship when mining afk to mine more (because of higher ore cargo hold!!!) not because it mines a little slower. And when I mine actively it is mining much more than your simple retriever fit. But this I have explained already in detail above. Seems you are too dumb or too ignorant to understand and accept this. Sorry for being so direct. so, no, they aren't less than 3 months old in your corp. in fact, you indirectly just proved my point. they haven't trained for a mackinaw, because there's simply no value in doing so. just like my alt, it can sit in a mackinaw but it never will. one of the issues with the barge rebalance is even though individual ships are now closer in yield, the gap between exhumers and barges is too small. with the price of barges vs exhumers that price difference really does make it worth "isk tanking" rather than fitting an appropriate tank to an exhumer. it's cheaper on isk, cheaper on SP investment, etc there's no denying the mackinaw does things better than a retriever, it's a direct upgrade in every regard. however, when you sacrifice an MLU for a damage control you've then got a ship that, in order to not get ganked, must mine less. conversely you can get a higher yield in a ship that at the end of the day, is irrelevant if it gets ganked or not, because it's so cheap. yes, the mackinaw has more ore bay space, by less than two cycles. the hulk, holds less than two cycles, just as perspective. if you're mining directly in to an orca, (because, for example, you only have one mining ship (yes i know, flimsy reason but bare with me)) your retriever will outmine your mackinaw. the simple fact is that the mackinaw is not worth it's price tag when the mining barges are so close to exhumers. you can call me ignorant all you want; that doesn't change the fact that it isn't true and it's just you calling me ignorant. you're welcome to type what you want on a public forum, no need to be sorry, i'm a big guy i can take it. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Dave Stark 1866	Posted - 2013.02.26 15:35:00 - [24] - Quote Carniflex wrote: 2x Strip Miner I gonna have to stop you right there. really? strip miner Is? last i checked that was a 16% yield loss right there. that's actually massive, that's more than the hulk's exhumer bonus. i'm hoping you just missed out an I? "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Tharin Malkyre Knights of the Ouroboros 3	Posted - 2013.02.26 21:08:00 - [25] - Quote I tank everything. Even my hauling Mammoth has its mids full of resist amps. My Mack is skilling towards: [Mackinaw, Thumper] Mining Laser Upgrade II Damage Control II Inertia Stabilizers II Survey Scanner II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Medium Shield Booster II Explosive Deflection Amplifier II Modulated Strip Miner II, Plagioclase Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Plagioclase Mining Crystal II Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Warrior II x5 Salvage Drone I x2 Mining Drone II x3 Any yield loss is far outweighed by reducing the chance I'll be blown to bits while I'm reading Game of Thrones.
loyalanon The Conference Elite Rainbow Dash Friends 84	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:55:00 - [26] - Quote We have ganked a ton of mackinaws and hulks in the past few months, and I have found the best setup to use is to at least use a damage control, one thermic hardener and an invuln field. But miners are greedy and it is rare to find a miner who has a solid tank. one small shield booster will not help you. Proof of kills below - http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=298890
Inkarr Hashur Sine Nobilitatis 207	Posted - 2013.02.27 04:47:00 - [27] - Quote loyalanon wrote: We have ganked a ton of mackinaws and hulks in the past few months, and I have found the best setup to use is to at least use a damage control, one thermic hardener and an invuln field. But miners are greedy and it is rare to find a miner who has a solid tank. one small shield booster will not help you. Proof of kills below - http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=298890 How do so many people on that killboard field a 180M hull and not even bother throwing on even a modest tank?
Petya Gladiator Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2013.02.27 06:22:00 - [28] - Quote I was still able to gank a mack with 37k ehp. Your best tank is when your not afk, and orbiting a belt. http://killboard.enl-i.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=66316
Dave Stark 1870	Posted - 2013.02.27 07:42:00 - [29] - Quote Petya Gladiator wrote: I was still able to gank a mack with 37k ehp. Your best tank is when your not afk, and orbiting a belt. http://killboard.enl-i.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=66316 or for the price of that 1 mackinaw, i could lose at least 5 retrievers, that would have also had a higher yield than that mackinaw. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Carniflex StarHunt 36	Posted - 2013.02.27 07:54:00 - [30] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Carniflex wrote: 2x Strip Miner I gonna have to stop you right there. really? strip miner Is? last i checked that was a 16% yield loss right there. that's actually massive, that's more than the hulk's exhumer bonus. i'm hoping you just missed out an I? Actually - I did not. If you gonna strip the belt anyway and do so semiafk then theres not much wrong with Strip I. I'm aware ofc that T1 crystals in modulated strips would give me 8% yield bonus and T2 crystals about 16 % yield bonus. But one would be required to carry some crystals for that ;) But for actually-at-keyboard mining Strip II + crystal is ofc the best. In that case you would also want to use ore scanner and to stop the miners when roid would pop and so on. then again, in my opinion, if you are already at keyboard there is much better things to do that yield substantially higher isk/h than mining. Incursions, Lev 4's, Exploration even. Or mine in null sec as you are there anyway to look at the local. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.



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