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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |

StiZum Hilidii
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Posted - 2005.08.08 12:28:00 -
[331]
so rather than fixing the ai just saying that its an exploit removes the work for ccp
sweet deal for you guys
btw the shields should be hit by the drones. shiled is there drones should dmg it.
and you reply was a real let down STAN
FACTA NON VERBA BRING BACK MMO CASINO |

Hue Jorgon
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Posted - 2005.08.08 12:36:00 -
[332]
Originally by: GM Arkanon Hello everyone.
I'd like to address some of the points raised in this thread.
1. Using drones to confuse POS targeting is an exploit of game mechanics, pure and simple. The drones can not damage the station, since they don't have the range and the POS guns can hardly hit the drones either. All that happens is that the POS guns are effectively incapacitated as they cycle targets from one drone to the next, leaving the attacking ships free to attack the station.
2. The GM on duty had to make a decision and was within his rights to do so. The GM team's duty is to report and react to situations potentially harmful to the game and it's the GM team that enforces ingame policies, not CCP. The GM in question has also been criticized for not taking action sooner, but you may want to consider that during that time, he was investigating the issue, contacting CCP and the bug hunting team and in general, doing his job correctly and responsibly.
3. This issue has now, thankfully, been drawn to our attention and I hope we will see changes to the POS guns' AI very soon. Until then, this will be considered an exploit and we will issue warnings/bans to those using it from now on. Note that this has no bearing on drone use in other situations, this is a very specific and easily classifiable exploit.
Thanks for your candid reply. However.
Should I be in a fleet attacking a POS, and in the system additional emeny forces are present. Am I not within my rights to drop my drones in anticipation of a potential action by the enemy?
The fact that drones are attack systems should not be construde as their sole use. Defence is a valued offens. Is it not? |

Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.08 12:50:00 -
[333]
i guees thats its not a exploit to laucnh u drones and have them orbit u if there is a enemy fleet inbound???
seems a bit of a hasty conclusion here. ------------- Be a warrior in game Not on forums ------------- |

Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2005.08.08 12:54:00 -
[334]
Quote: 1. Using drones to confuse POS targeting is an exploit of game mechanics, pure and simple. The drones can not damage the station, since they don't have the range and the POS guns can hardly hit the drones either. All that happens is that the POS guns are effectively incapacitated as they cycle targets from one drone to the next, leaving the attacking ships free to attack the station.
One though of similiar situation..
1. Using light drones to confuse NPC battleship targeting is an exploit of game mechanics, pure and simple. The light drones can not damage the NPC battleship, since they don't have the damage capability for it and the NPC battleship guns can hardly hit the light drones either. All that happens is that the NPC battleship guns are effectively incapacitated as they cycle targets from one drone to the next, leaving the attacking ships free to attack the NPC battleship.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |

Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:02:00 -
[335]
So now it is an exploit to use a legal weapon that cannot hurt the target. So using a Large Turret to try an shoot a orbiting frigate is by this dumb definition an exploit. After all, your using a weapon that cannot hurt the target in an non-GM approved manner.
So using drones to soak off attackers is an exploit. When will this be posted in the Dev Blog or be put on its own thread with a sticky?
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:06:00 -
[336]
Edited by: Loka on 08/08/2005 13:07:27 From what i have understood the locking time of the Turretbays were bigger, than their target cycling time.
Therefore if an enemy would dampen every single Turretbattery of the POS, the effect would be the same. Because the locking time of the POS on BS would to bigger than their target cycling time.
-> Damping Turretbays = Exploit too?
May i get an aswer here pls. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive

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Braaage
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:23:00 -
[337]
Looks like this is a result of the topic ___________________________________________ http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online *New - Building an Outpost |

Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:29:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Avon on 08/08/2005 13:30:01
 ______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |

Intensity Green
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:33:00 -
[339]
LMAO. Darwin awards for CCP...
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:35:00 -
[340]
Ahh, light drones.
[Come to Daddy]
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Burzon
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:38:00 -
[341]
This is a GM decision, so i do not see the need for further discussion. As the GM¦s resemble Executive and Legeslative force in this game all you can fo is to accept it. I am sure that CCP will come up with a solution to the problem. Til then just accept and quit trying to talk the GM¦s into situational traps that do not directly connect to the incident ...
Just my 2 ISK
Burzon CEO PAX Interstellar Services
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:42:00 -
[342]
Ok, which is it. The GM in the thread says all drones are an exploit and the news article says light drones are an exploit.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Albus
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:48:00 -
[343]
Edited by: Albus on 08/08/2005 13:49:55 Can we please get a clarification - is it an exploit to use swarms of medium or heavy drones for the purposes of distracting POS guns? I personally lost half of my medium drones assaulting the POS, so valkyries at least can be hit.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.08.08 14:07:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Loka Edited by: Loka on 08/08/2005 13:07:27 From what i have understood the locking time of the Turretbays were bigger, than their target cycling time.
Therefore if an enemy would dampen every single Turretbattery of the POS, the effect would be the same. Because the locking time of the POS on BS would to bigger than their target cycling time.
-> Damping Turretbays = Exploit too?
May i get an aswer here pls.
Cant lock anything inside pos...
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Cawt Yrmanlookin
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Posted - 2005.08.08 14:25:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Burzon This is a GM decision, so i do not see the need for further discussion. As the GM¦s resemble Executive and Legeslative force in this game all you can fo is to accept it. Burzon
They are gonna do what they are gonna do no matter what we say. Just like the time T0mb was in FA space and I told him he needs a pass cause I didnt know who he was and he warped me to a moon with sentries and ripped my shield/armor/structure to exactly half then warped me to the sun.
Everytime we do something like this it makes them look bad because we look smarter then them for finding it.
A warrior's faith in her commander is her best armour and her strongest weapon.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.08.08 14:29:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Loka on 08/08/2005 14:31:29 what me p1$$ off most is the answer i get on 90% of my petions ... "Sorry we have no Logs".
I doubt this every time, because i know from myself that in my code i have to log any thing what iam doing and iam lazy. From my expirience and the wonderfull piece of code the developers have tiped down (hat down, iam impressed), i believe, they have enough Logs, but are too lazy or even are told to say so.
sorry, but this thing p1$$ed me even that often, that i dont even bother writing a petition nowadays.
Developer \o/, but Supporter /o\ ... _____________________________________ Dead or Alive

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Lord Zap
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Posted - 2005.08.08 14:46:00 -
[347]
Playing to win.
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Stormfront
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Posted - 2005.08.08 14:52:00 -
[348]
Oh well now we know what to use :)
50 Dominix with medium drones... tons of them.

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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.08 15:01:00 -
[349]
Is it just me, or have some of the development decisions recently about this game become progressively flaky?
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MAXsu1c1de
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:08:00 -
[350]
so why not give 5 the bs's back also?
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Yes please
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:14:00 -
[351]
If you were to take a quick look at the news, you would notice that it has been stated the using light drones IS an exploit and DOES shut down the POS guns for whatever reason.
Please, do get over it [5], for crying out loud.
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:16:00 -
[352]
So let me get this right...useing drones to attack a pos is a exploit? But can I use them to attack another players ship? Really need some help on this...makes nosense what so ever.
Drones out to give the pos more targets or for self defence from the POS owners warping in?
If useing drones is a no-no then Gallente need twice the number of guns we currently are allowed to use.
I cant compete with a apoc outfitted proper, Even my best shots dont come close to a apoc. I rely on speed armor and getting real close to shoot, and have my drones attack at the same time.
This thread is saying Drones are exploits now 
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter [i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box. |

Yes please
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:19:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Roshan longshot So let me get this right...useing drones to attack a pos is a exploit? But can I use them to attack another players ship? Really need some help on this...makes nosense what so ever.
NO YOU IDIOT, read the news article.
The light drones caused the guns not to work as they should, and, therefore, are classed as an EXPLOIT.
Let me try and make it simple for you. If I came along and launched a bunch of light drones and your ship, and, suddendly, you were unable to shoot me back, how would you feel about that?
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:26:00 -
[354]
errm thats how FOF's were for a LONG time.... someone launches drones at you and you have FOF's... they go for the drones instead... effectively you wouldnt be able to shoot them...
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Brian Detaah
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:52:00 -
[355]
Guys, Every argument have been made, a decision have been rendered, life goes on and we killed the POS in question anyway.
This thread is ol yeller. Needs to be put down.
------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:07:00 -
[356]
Originally by: GM Arkanon Hello everyone.
I'd like to address some of the points raised in this thread.
1. Using drones to confuse POS targeting is an exploit of game mechanics, pure and simple. The drones can not damage the station, since they don't have the range and the POS guns can hardly hit the drones either. All that happens is that the POS guns are effectively incapacitated as they cycle targets from one drone to the next, leaving the attacking ships free to attack the station.
2. The GM on duty had to make a decision and was within his rights to do so. The GM team's duty is to report and react to situations potentially harmful to the game and it's the GM team that enforces ingame policies, not CCP. The GM in question has also been criticized for not taking action sooner, but you may want to consider that during that time, he was investigating the issue, contacting CCP and the bug hunting team and in general, doing his job correctly and responsibly.
3. This issue has now, thankfully, been drawn to our attention and I hope we will see changes to the POS guns' AI very soon. Until then, this will be considered an exploit and we will issue warnings/bans to those using it from now on. Note that this has no bearing on drone use in other situations, this is a very specific and easily classifiable exploit.
if it were so easily classified as a exploit and it was posted here then why wasnt this thread instalocked and warnings given out for discussing a exploit. and if it was so easily classified as a exploit then this thread should have been totally redundant from second 2. i saw that it was a textbook exploit and i assume everyone but the five and bob saw it that way since they were the ones using it.
you will have problems in the future to justify locking and handing out warnings for discussing exploits though since you didnt play it by the forum rules on this one.
but as usual different people, different strokes right? lets see what happens when a member of PA,FA,F-E,RED,IMP,G posts about a exploit next time.
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:13:00 -
[357]
Originally by: GM Arkanon Hello everyone.
I'd like to address some of the points raised in this thread.
1. Using drones to confuse POS targeting is an exploit of game mechanics, pure and simple. The drones can not damage the station, since they don't have the range and the POS guns can hardly hit the drones either. All that happens is that the POS guns are effectively incapacitated as they cycle targets from one drone to the next, leaving the attacking ships free to attack the station.
2. The GM on duty had to make a decision and was within his rights to do so. The GM team's duty is to report and react to situations potentially harmful to the game and it's the GM team that enforces ingame policies, not CCP. The GM in question has also been criticized for not taking action sooner, but you may want to consider that during that time, he was investigating the issue, contacting CCP and the bug hunting team and in general, doing his job correctly and responsibly.
3. This issue has now, thankfully, been drawn to our attention and I hope we will see changes to the POS guns' AI very soon. Until then, this will be considered an exploit and we will issue warnings/bans to those using it from now on. Note that this has no bearing on drone use in other situations, this is a very specific and easily classifiable exploit.
There is 2 ways to handle it :
1 - Say you are sorry, it's a game design mistake and u need to heal the POS to correct it, reimburse the ships and again appologize for 3 hours of gametime wasted.
2 - Say it's players fault who exploited a bug. You guys decided to launch drones while in combat on something (dont care if it's useless, i spent isk to buy them, i find it cool on my fraps so i launch them).
You choosed the second way, you decided to judge and point Five pilots as cheaters cause of YOUR mistake on the game dev. Sorry CCP, i love this game, i love the work done, even with it cons, but in that case, u failed to my opinion, u failed.
I'm CEO IRL and i can tell u guys, u need some communication skills. U can ban me or watherver for this post, but u cant decide how ur customers think.
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Nostradamu5
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:30:00 -
[358]
Great and I've spent the last 16 months reprocessing light drones, now they have a use
Faulty testing kept me from delivering the "Logic Editor" earlier.
I was using my own post and it kept blanking everything out.
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Zigadenus
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:45:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Braaage Looks like this is a result of the topic
So heavy/med drones are not part of the "exploit" everyone is riled up about? So when the poor fool that hasn't bothered to read all this that sets his heavy drones on a POS gets bent over a barrel for doing it, we'll all get the notice not to use those?
You gotta be kidding me. CCP/GMs/whoever, you guys need to get your pupe together. I know it takes effort but it's part of the job we pay you to do. This type oif thing wouldn't bother me so much except that when you don't lay down the law consistently, your customers lose hours or days worth of effort that is typically not the fun component of our gametime, rather just work time to get to the fun. Not cool.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:49:00 -
[360]
I must say I am utterly amazed at the number of people stating "I can do it using the tools CCP has given us, therefore it cannot be an exploit" or sentences to that effect. Those sentences are nearly imploding due the lack of making sense.
The ones saying the players should have controlled the towers are also off base in regards to evaluating the issue at hand. POS are meant to be autonomous.
The one screaming that their drones are now outlawed and useless, should just read the thing again and see that it is one specific situation in question. Growing up a little beforehand might help. It would be the same arguing that ALL actions were outlawed and useless because one was bannable.
CCP gives us tools to play. They at the same time state that the toys might be a little bit broken and/or allow you to do stuff it was not intended for, and that if we use them for said purposes it will be deemed exploits.
In the given example it can always be debated at what level the users should be aware that this might fall under such a category.
But I think we can state that most knew, that it was making the guns behave in a way that made the guns _significantly_ less efficient. That should raise a flag with most players. Then this has been a tactic in other forms and situations so I can see why it could be an inbred tactic. But not against an autonomous player owned object(again; The fact that a player _could_ control it is irrellevant. He is not meant to do so.). But I agree that the flag should have been raised by CCP before, perhaps, based on the other applications of the tactic.
And that brings us to the fine line between clever thinking and exploiting.
The GM decided that it was an exploit. Knowingly or not(by the players :-).
Could he have contacted both parts before taking action? He should perhaps have done so. Was the action taken excessive? Well, if he decides that results were achieved using exploits, I would say no. Should lost BSs be reimbursed? That all depends on whether they deem the exploit to have been performed knowingly, I guess. And as such not a decision to be made on the spot by the GM.
Lastly: The ones jumping on the whole "GMs favors this and that"-wagon should be ashamed of themselves. And especially the ones taking that unfounded accusation without having any proof beyond the OP and rolling it down the hill.
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