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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
BOldMan	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:49:00 - [91] Better. Drones are clever than AI NPC. Kill them all. Starting with light. After that kill all gallente. They are clever and tricky. Next let us play only with guns. What we need drones or missiles? And named sistems X1 and X2. Reduce to 2 only. And named our weapons AK and MP5. Gamed solved.
Kaeryn Blackheart	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:51:00 - [92] As i got it from yesterdays convo and the discussion on TS about the judgement of the GM, the point of exploitation was not the deployment of drones as a bait itself, it was the fact that large pos cant lock on the ¦drones due to their target cycling rate faster than their locking times on the drones, which lead to the large guns being inoperabel (not firing) for 70% of the fight. Well, rest assured, noone in this op knew about this being handled as an exploit, and we all went into 15 seconds of dead silence after the GM repaired the station back to 100% and watched our combined effort & losses being nullified. Not to mention the strange fact that as soon XF had a "problem" with one of their pos ("they are ¦xplotin us!! heelp!!"), a GM showed up 5 minutes after the petition, but five had problems with souvereignity in the system for over three WEEKS and nothing happened, only fruitless replies after a long line of petitions. (it was impossible to anchor pos at some moons, when all of a sudden XF where able to anchor theirs and took over souvereignity....) --------------------------------------------------------
Psychopat	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:52:00 - [93] Its funny how i see snip snip snip. But NO POST from the Snipper.
Draximus Prime	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:53:00 - [94] OK people this calls for a bit of common sense, I will be the bearer. We know that using drones to attack POS causes undesired actions by the game mechanics, CCP have decided that they dont want people to abuse the undesired action. Yes this is clearly a bug/glitch in the AI, yes this is clearly annoying, yes CCP will do what they can to fix it, yes CCP dont want you to abuse the said bug/glitch. Until it is fixed dont use drones to attack a POS, is it really that much of a deal? Mountains out of molehills... ______________________ To dare in fields is valor; but how few dare to be throughly valiant to be true?
Sun Ra	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:57:00 - [95] Originally by: Draximus Prime OK people this calls for a bit of common sense, I will be the bearer. We know that using drones to attack POS causes undesired actions by the game mechanics, CCP have decided that they dont want people to abuse the undesired action. Yes this is clearly a bug/glitch in the AI, yes this is clearly annoying, yes CCP will do what they can to fix it, yes CCP dont want you to abuse the said bug/glitch. Until it is fixed dont use drones to attack a POS, is it really that much of a deal? Mountains out of molehills... Problem is they didnt tell peopel before hand its an exploit We're coming for you
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:58:00 - [96] Originally by: Draximus Prime OK people this calls for a bit of common sense, I will be the bearer. We know that using drones to attack POS causes undesired actions by the game mechanics, CCP have decided that they dont want people to abuse the undesired action. Yes this is clearly a bug/glitch in the AI, yes this is clearly annoying, yes CCP will do what they can to fix it, yes CCP dont want you to abuse the said bug/glitch. Until it is fixed dont use drones to attack a POS, is it really that much of a deal? Mountains out of molehills... The prob was mostly the way it was dealth with drax. A warning etc would be nice.
XTrader	Posted - 2005.08.06 12:59:00 - [97] I think we have to distinguish between the bug and the exploit here. The bug is that a POS shots at drones, which is pointless because: - drones can not do damage to the POS because of the distance - when the ship that is controlling the drones is taken down by the POS, the drones stop attacking The exploit is to use this bug to use drones as reinforceable decoys. The POS has a hard time to kill those drones because: - smaller objects lead to longer targeting time - smaller objects are harder to hit Remember, each ship can deploy up to ten additional targets at low price. The shields of the POS were restored by the GMs because the reinforcement mode did not work either. The POS displayed a reinforcement time of 1 hour and 52 minutes which is far less then it should have been. As you can see, two bugs hit the XETIC POS here. The POS was not unmanaged and we tried oour best to fit even more small guns during the fight to counter the drones. We don't know how many drones were shot down by the POS because killmails are only generated for ships. During the one hour fight, the POS destroyed 3 ships. The attacking force had about 40 ships. Unfortunately, I don't have count about the deployed drones but i guess something around 300. XTrader, CEO of the X-Trading Company, XETIC Federation
Acwron	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:00:00 - [98] Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: Draximus Prime [...] Problem is they didnt tell peopel before hand its an exploit Sun Ra do you seriously want to tell people that they didn't know that it was at least "fishy" ? Please come on...
Avon	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:04:00 - [99] wtf? I can't shoot drones with large turrets on my BS, can I petition my attacker and get my shields restored? I know I can fit guns to do the job, and I know my main guns won't - but that's ccp's fault right, not mine for being a muppet? Please. It is up to the POS owner to provide defence. If they do it wrong they should live with their error, not get a GM to fix it up for them. Even if the lock time is longer than the cycle time of large pos turrets that is still no reason to call drones an exploit. Inform the pos owners of that weakness in their defence and let them decide what to do. POS GOD-MODE ON is h4x, no matter what way you cut it. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Sun Ra	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:06:00 - [100] Originally by: Acwron Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: Draximus Prime [...] Problem is they didnt tell peopel before hand its an exploit Sun Ra do you seriously want to tell people that they didn't know that it was at least "fishy" ? Please come on... I dunno dood ive nevver atatcked an active pos.. but i know when ive attack a station ive used drones, tbh i dunno how these pos work so maybe i should stfu We're coming for you

SengH	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:10:00 - [101] Edited by: SengH on 06/08/2005 13:10:39
disassembler	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:11:00 - [102] Sounds like some sort of bug. Probably a good thing to call it an explot until it can be fixed. Unfortunate that you were the ones who discovered it, but someone has to find the **** code.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:14:00 - [103] And if there are defenders, you can't use drones on them? BRILLIANT! thud "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:26:00 - [104] Exploit or no exploit, the GM should be fired. F I R E D And hopefull the door will hit ur ass on the way out for good measure
Elenia Kheynes	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:27:00 - [105] Originally by: Tehel Necrona Exploit or no exploit, the GM should be fired. F I R E D And hopefull the door will hit ur ass on the way out for good measure omgbuhu ? Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:30:00 - [106] POS owners can anchor small batteries to counter drones, if a couple of large weapons can't hit the drones then that is a simple part of the game mechanics and by no means an exploit. Deploying drones as decoys to help save your ship from being the sole target is a valid tactic, even if they don't have the range required to hit the tower itself. The fact that the POS continues to attack drones after their owner has been destroyed or has had to warp out is nothing new, and it isn't really a "bug" either. Judging from what I have read here, the POS was ill prepared for an assault which is why you started to deploy "more" small weapons after realising this mistake. It would appear that the GM gave you a "second chance" to sort out your defences, which is totally unfair to the attacking force. -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
mahhy	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:37:00 - [107] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime POS owners can anchor small batteries to counter drones, if a couple of large weapons can't hit the drones then that is a simple part of the game mechanics and by no means an exploit. Even small POS turrets won't hit light drones at least. Been there, tried that, works wonders. Not sure about heavies though. I think people need to realize that just because something is a part of the game mechanics does not necessarily mean it isn't an exploit. If CCP decide that this is not the way they intended it to work, then it is an exploit. If it is supposed to work that way, then its not an exploit. I couldn't care either way. But I know if I was there and a GM came along and just magically restored the shields I'd be ****ed off too. Fine telling 5 members not to use drones, but don't just nullify all their hard work instantly.
slip66	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:48:00 - [108] Originally by: Christopher Scott Originally by: Hue Jorgon It would seem then using standings to "aim" the guns at specific, single targets is also an exploit. Fix both, or don't call either an exploit. kthx. very true
Terradoct	Posted - 2005.08.06 13:48:00 - [109] Edited by: Terradoct on 06/08/2005 13:48:53 Originally by: mahhy Fine telling 5 members not to use drones, but don't just nullify all their hard work instantly. They knew that this is not intented. They use light drones always when attacking POSes. What hard work your are talking about? They lost only 3 BS to POS that is heavyly armed even Dread will have strugle to take it down.
Gigi Barbagrigia	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:00:00 - [110] My bet is it was TomB in disguise. He's gonna balance alliances now Dunno guys, traditionally in RPGs, GM says you can't do it, you can't do it. EoD. Kinda pointless thread tbh. You feel like it was bad refereeing. Fair enough, you appealed. Now you wait for the rullng like everybody else. Besides, you are influential enough so can hope for a favorable one. And if you don't get it, oh well, it's not like you couldn't use a loss. You know, when one team is winning too much league loses audience ----- 42

Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:03:00 - [111] ok first lets not make this a whichhunt on xetic atm we wanna discuss the "exploit" and the actions of the GM. not who if any have unautorized help from GM's it will only get the thread locked again. the fact that ppl say its an exploit not to use drones cause they cant hit? wtf that BS. cause u know its not a exploit to try and hit whit antimatter at 120km arent it? its not a exploit to use drones to take fire from npc if u wanna use em that way arent it? its not a exploit to use drones in long range combat arent it? its not a exploit to get 150 Interceptors to orbit the pos whit even less signature radius arent it?? u can infact use the the intys like drones would that be clasified a exploit cause the guns will have a even les Hitiing % agains intys??? its not a exploit to try and avoid u ships taking dammage by using the TOOLS CCP gave u whit the game in this case drones. If the POS did not work how could it kill both drones and BS??? how can u in a middle of an assualt take actions like this no warnig no nothing???? normally things like this are Getting fixed whit the next or so patch but never have it been classified EXPLOITS In matter of minutes? i could go on but damn this is a big issue whic i am sure CCP takes really serius. ------------- Be a warrior in game Not on forums -------------
Albus	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:05:00 - [112] Edited by: Albus on 06/08/2005 14:06:20 Originally by: Terradoct Edited by: Terradoct on 06/08/2005 13:48:53 Originally by: mahhy Fine telling 5 members not to use drones, but don't just nullify all their hard work instantly. They knew that this is not intented. They use light drones always when attacking POSes. What hard work your are talking about? They lost only 3 BS to POS that is heavyly armed even Dread will have strugle to take it down. So, are you telling me that the 7 separate gangs we had going, the specific ship setups EVERYONE in the assault was required to fit, the remote repairing that was constantly going on to keep everyone alive (contrary to what you might think, our group of 4 BS's had at least one gun firing on us for 75% of the assault.), the coordinated warp ins and outs, the 3 hours of preparation and forming up and the huge amount of organisation required was not hard work?
Galk	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:07:00 - [113] Originally by: Terradoct Edited by: Terradoct on 06/08/2005 13:48:53 Originally by: mahhy Fine telling 5 members not to use drones, but don't just nullify all their hard work instantly. They knew that this is not intented. They use light drones always when attacking POSes. What hard work your are talking about? They lost only 3 BS to POS that is heavyly armed even Dread will have strugle to take it down. Exactly.... it's the same everytime. Like somebody said earlier in the thread.. the most experienced playing stupid like they didn't know... It fools nobody, not that it excuses the actions of the gm in anyway... For why... because if there's an easy way... bet on it that xetic would exploit it.. empire war decs anyone... Gm's realy shouldn't play on morales. -------- 23
Ovaron	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:13:00 - [114] You miss 2 important points. 1) Would a player control the POS , would he attack the 400 Drones orbiting the POS without any danger or chance to hit the POS? Or would he attack the Ships who is the Launcher of the Drones? 2) You miss the point that POS is controlled by an AI , and to use a bug in an AI to get a massive advantage , its called an exploit. To example, in en Fantasy RGP , if you get the monster in a zone , who can't defend herself , and your are able to attack them without any danger. You would see this as an "normal" way to kill this monster? Ingame Sales Page : http://www.ii-inc.org/xtech
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:17:00 - [115] Originally by: Ovaron You miss 2 important points. 1) Would a player control the POS , would he attack the 400 Drones orbiting the POS without any danger or chance to hit the POS? Or would he attack the Ships who is the Launcher of the Drones? 2) You miss the point that POS is controlled by an AI , and to use a bug in an AI to get a massive advantage , its called an exploit. To example, in en Fantasy RGP , if you get the monster in a zone , who can't defend herself , and your are able to attack them without any danger. You would see this as an "normal" way to kill this monster? Do a player control the npc??? same thing? if i cant use drones on POS ai i shouldent be allowed on NPC ai either? clearly ppl use drones to go around the npc's ai when they wait to all npc are target u then realease drones so they can kill frigs safly? ------------- Be a warrior in game Not on forums -------------
Xard	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:28:00 - [116] in this case Dominix mining in 0.0 defended by drones is exploit and wait omg why my large guns cant hit orbiting enemy drones. Exploit as well?
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:30:00 - [117] Originally by: Sir JoJo Originally by: Ovaron You miss 2 important points. 1) Would a player control the POS , would he attack the 400 Drones orbiting the POS without any danger or chance to hit the POS? Or would he attack the Ships who is the Launcher of the Drones? 2) You miss the point that POS is controlled by an AI , and to use a bug in an AI to get a massive advantage , its called an exploit. To example, in en Fantasy RGP , if you get the monster in a zone , who can't defend herself , and your are able to attack them without any danger. You would see this as an "normal" way to kill this monster? Do a player control the npc??? same thing? if i cant use drones on POS ai i shouldent be allowed on NPC ai either? clearly ppl use drones to go around the npc's ai when they wait to all npc are target u then realease drones so they can kill frigs safly? Actually, I am pretty sure that is called tactics and is why you dont leave an IA to do the work of a player. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Udat	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:30:00 - [118] This is a reminder to post constructively. Flames cause nothing but trouble. If you can't post constructively then please don't post at all. Also, please post in English only.
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:35:00 - [119] Wouldn't a BS with a few large smartbombs inside of the shield be able to clear any amount of drones attacking a POS ? -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.08.06 14:36:00 - [120] Originally by: Miri Tirzan Originally by: Sir JoJo Originally by: Ovaron You miss 2 important points. 1) Would a player control the POS , would he attack the 400 Drones orbiting the POS without any danger or chance to hit the POS? Or would he attack the Ships who is the Launcher of the Drones? 2) You miss the point that POS is controlled by an AI , and to use a bug in an AI to get a massive advantage , its called an exploit. To example, in en Fantasy RGP , if you get the monster in a zone , who can't defend herself , and your are able to attack them without any danger. You would see this as an "normal" way to kill this monster? Do a player control the npc??? same thing? if i cant use drones on POS ai i shouldent be allowed on NPC ai either? clearly ppl use drones to go around the npc's ai when they wait to all npc are target u then realease drones so they can kill frigs safly? Actually, I am pretty sure that is called tactics and is why you dont leave an IA to do the work of a player. ' u got the point yes in both case its tactis NOT exploits. ------------- Be a warrior in game Not on forums -------------



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then using standings to "aim" the guns at specific, single targets is also an exploit.