EVE Search - Slowcats - are they worth it?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Slowcats - are they worth it?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Anthar Thebess REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN 57	Posted - 2013.02.28 12:43:00 - [1] - Quote I play in games for a long time - and i see something in eve that i already saw few times in my "player life". At some point there is something uncontrolled, unstoppable - brining a loot of fun to a wining side ... but at the end brining death to a game or at least leaving it with minimal player base. It usually begins with "I win button". For some time this fun - but at some point even "wining" side gets boored, and game begins to leak players faster and faster every day. As far as know - eve had already few times this kind of "issue" but each time it was "managed" in some way. With upcoming skill changes more, and more players will move to the capital ships - this is fun , but it can be also stab in a back for this game. As already big fleet engagements are mostly : - follow your anchor - lock broadcasted target - press f1 for primary - press f2 for secondary ...We are approaching something more "fun" - slowcats - already growing , and growing on numbers , but still in "somewhat manageable numbers". Simple calculations - i didn't check them : http://evenews24.com/2012/08/08/ask-dr-fit-what-is-a-slowcat/ " - Bouncers max range: 120km GÇô 2300 volley - Gardes max range 60km GÇô 2400 volley - Wardens max 140km GÇô 1800 volley (...) Having a 50 carrier fleet (...) achieve would mean a 120K volley, every ~4 seconds." And of course the main thing - all of them are controlled by one fast tracking ship. Now , after those few months (from 08/08/2012) the typical slowcat fleet grew to 100-150 carriers , and more pilots are on the way. So lets talk about 150 slowcats ... shield ones ( after skill changes - they will be quite easy to get): - Immense Tank - med slot based - Immense DPS - low slot based - Immense Remote Repair - we are talking about carriers after all Will eve become. - Jump to cyno - Drop your sentries - Assign to me - Now rep fleet 400-500k alpha every 4 seconds. Yes this will be fun - but for how long. How long it will take for people to get bored? And slowcats are only small part of the issue: - BLOB!!! - fun as hell - 30% TDI - Titan bridge - bigger bloob - 10% TDI - Slowcats - additional 100 players on grid ... and over 1000 new sentries .... Will CCP find solution for this - or do you see one?
Princess Saskia Hyperfleet Industries xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 81	Posted - 2013.02.28 12:46:00 - [2] - Quote You may want to check the patch notes again. It is infact going to take longer to skill into a carrier than previously Hyperfleet Industries is selectivly recruiting. Enquire today. Killboard
Brooks Puuntai Solar Nexus. 1154	Posted - 2013.02.28 12:50:00 - [3] - Quote Need a new naming system. Don't Vote for Malcanis New Eden Training Simulation. -áIdea to improve NPE.
Anthar Thebess REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN 57	Posted - 2013.02.28 12:51:00 - [4] - Quote But changing from the armour carrier ( preferred now) to the shield one - will be at minimal effort. If you look on skills - they are more "pilot friendly". Additionally the main issue is with slowcat concept. Carrier sentries - can shoot a frigate within a second after showing on the grid - how? As the drones are controlled by a T3 fast locking cruiser.
Cebraio 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.02.28 12:58:00 - [5] - Quote There are also counters to slowcats. - You can try to damp/jam/kill the target caller - You can use smartbombs and bombs to destroy sentries (Destroying enough T2 sentries will at least make these fleets costly and will reduce DPS while pilots redeploy and reassign.) - You can bring slowcats - ... - You can bring Titans and supers Slowcats actually require more work for the average F1 fleet member, so I don't see a problem with that aspect.
Anthar Thebess REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN 57	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:10:00 - [6] - Quote Cebraio wrote: There are also counters to slowcats. - You can try to damp/jam/kill the target caller - You can use smartbombs and bombs to destroy sentries (Destroying enough T2 sentries will at least make these fleets costly and will reduce DPS while pilots redeploy and reassign.) - You can bring slowcats - ... - You can bring Titans and supers Slowcats actually require more work for the average F1 fleet member, so I don't see a problem with that aspect. Kill target caller - small signature heavy tanked T3 Cruiser - repped by carriers? Damp/Jam - yes but just having few target callers negates this approach. Smart bomb? 150 carriers against smart bomb BS fleet. Typical smart bomb bs have 50k ehp tanked 80-90k This makes 5 BS dead every 4 seconds, and carrier can have few hundred sentries on board. Slowcats against slowcats , dreads will do much better - but still this will lead to TDI 10% BLOB. -Supers , yes this solve this ! Why i didn't think about this. Let the only true solution be "BRING BIGGER SHIPS!!" To be honest - big fights are super - but not on TDI 10%. Why not CCP "negate" the slowcat concept? Rather than force "big bigger guns"?
War Kitten Panda McLegion 1755	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:10:00 - [7] - Quote Cebraio wrote: There are also counters to slowcats. - You can try to damp/jam/kill the target caller - You can use smartbombs and bombs to destroy sentries (Destroying enough T2 sentries will at least make these fleets costly and will reduce DPS while pilots redeploy and reassign.) - You can bring slowcats - ... - You can bring Titans and supers Slowcats actually require more work for the average F1 fleet member, so I don't see a problem with that aspect. Screw that adapting crap, CCP is supposed to fix it. Right OP? roll I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2550	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:11:00 - [8] - Quote Princess Saskia wrote: You may want to check the patch notes again. It is infact going to take longer to skill into a carrier than previously Yep. No more hearing "I can fly a carrier, but I can't use capital logi mods or triage yet". Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular.
Wacktopia Noir. Black Legion. 470	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:12:00 - [9] - Quote "Are SlowCats worth it?" What do you mean? Are you referring to their performance vs price or is this a stealth nerf thread? The question of how long something is to skill for or costs is a moot point when it comes to balance, which is kind of where I think you're going with this? Ultimately more players will be able to skill for and afford the ships required with the progression of time so it cannot really be used as a reliable limiting factor. There are two things that make slow cats a very effective doctrine and I think what you're getting at with your post. 1) The ships have high HP, saving them from alpha attacks, and are naturally able to spider-tank verses dps very well. 2) The ability to assign drones means that the FC only has to attack a target, there is no broadcasting, no reaction times, no human errors etc. In addition, when the drones attack their alpha is high and their dispersion can mean that tracking issues are often mitigated. The result of which means it is a tricky tactic to counter if executed correctly. But not impossible. The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 176	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:37:00 - [10] - Quote Quick, there's a strong and hard to counter tactic in nullsec fleets, nerf it to the ground!
Anthar Thebess REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN 57	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:38:00 - [11] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: "Are SlowCats worth it?" What do you mean? Are you referring to their performance vs price or is this a stealth nerf thread? The result of which means it is a tricky tactic to counter if executed correctly. Generally the tactic vs drones is to destroy the drones because most ships can only field a flight or two of the ones they are using to kill you. On a carrier this is true but only with Fighters. The disproportional volume of fighters vs sentries is so great that a carrier can carry 4000 sentry drones. A wave of bombers, for example, would normally be enough to wipe out field of drones and would be an effective tactic were it not for the above fact. I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this one but I think that perhaps if something were to be done then perhaps if fighters were made to be 2x the volume of a heavy/sentry drone and the carrier drone bay reduced accordingly [20 Fighters \| 40 sentries] then it would mean that aoe-blapping the sentries was potentially a viable tactic. But, like I say, don't know how I feel about this. Any change will be connected to nerf of the slowcat doctrine. "The disproportional volume of fighters vs sentries is so great that a carrier can carry 4000 sentry drones. " That is one of the reasons why big number of slowcats is so unstoppable. If you kill the drones - they have plenty more. As for the bombing - have you tried? When carriers are not moving - they can instantly scope drones - and redeploy them few seconds after bombs explode.
Cebraio 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:44:00 - [12] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Kill target caller - small signature heavy tanked T3 Cruiser - repped by carriers? You just need a very high alpha. Or you kill the target caller before the reps are on him. It has been done before. Anthar Thebess wrote: Damp/Jam - yes but just having few target callers negates this approach. Having a few target callers just requires "a few" more EWAR ships. Multiple target callers reduce the DPS. So usually it's just one target caller at a time. If the carriers are required to assist drones to another one, it will again reduce the DPS. Anthar Thebess wrote: Smart bomb? 150 carriers against smart bomb BS fleet. Typical smart bomb bs have 50k ehp tanked 80-90k This makes 5 BS dead every 4 seconds, and carrier can have few hundred sentries on board. If there is only one target caller, it's only 1 dead BS every 4 seconds. Also, bombs. Anthar Thebess wrote: Let the only true solution be "BRING BIGGER SHIPS!!" It's not the only solution. See EWAR, bombs etc. TiDi is unavoidable (currently) with big fights. Carriers with sentries surely add to that, but it's not like other fleet compositions don't cause TiDi.
Jassmin Joy Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings 66	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:47:00 - [13] - Quote Princess Saskia wrote: You may want to check the patch notes again. It is infact going to take longer to skill into a carrier than previously If you can already fly a carrier, you'll be able to train the other race carriers much, much quicker.
Wacktopia Noir. Black Legion. 470	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:48:00 - [14] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Wacktopia wrote: snip As for the bombing - have you tried? When carriers are not moving - they can instantly scope drones - and redeploy them few seconds after bombs explode. I think we're agreeing with each other on most of the points but on the bomb point I was merely citing an example. Smarties would be equally effective - what would happen if you, I dunno, dropped a gang of s-bombing carriers right on top of a slow-cat gang? Bomb-cats. Slow cats are relatively new. I'd say see where it goes before calling for nerf. The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures.
Spurty V0LTA Verge of Collapse 808	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:50:00 - [15] - Quote Only going to happen (nerf) if it comes to high sec --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. ****
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13038	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:53:00 - [16] - Quote Brooks Puuntai wrote: Need a new naming system. ^^ Why cats? Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
Wacktopia Noir. Black Legion. 470	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:56:00 - [17] - Quote Tippia wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Need a new naming system. ^^ Why cats? IKR. I was thinking that the common cockerel would make an excellent collective naming convention. Fast-cockerels Slow-cockerels Fat-cockerels. Right? The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures.
Cebraio 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.02.28 13:58:00 - [18] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: ... The disproportional volume of fighters vs sentries is so great that a carrier can carry 4000 sentry drones. But they usually don't have that many. T2 sentries are expensive. Nobody carries 4000. Only a few hundred. Wacktopia wrote: I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this one but I think that perhaps if something were to be done then perhaps if fighters were made to be 2x the volume of a heavy/sentry drone and the carrier drone bay reduced accordingly [20 Fighters \| 40 sentries] then it would mean that aoe-blapping the sentries was potentially a viable tactic. But, like I say, don't know how I feel about this. I agree they could be nerfed with a drone bay size nerf. But where's the fun in that. Anthar Thebess wrote: When carriers are not moving - they can instantly scope drones - and redeploy them few seconds after bombs explode. You underestimate the amount of stupid within a fleet. Not all members will pull drones in time. ... And it reduces DPS for the duration of the bombing run.
Wacktopia Noir. Black Legion. 470	Posted - 2013.02.28 14:00:00 - [19] - Quote Cebraio wrote: Wacktopia wrote: ... The disproportional volume of fighters vs sentries is so great that a carrier can carry 4000 sentry drones. But they usually don't have that many. T2 sentries are expensive. Nobody carries 4000. Only a few hundred. Yes, of course. And T1 are the obvious choice given their expendability. I was merely citing the number for completeness and to show that you can effectively have "unlimited" replacements. The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures.
Jake Warbird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2274	Posted - 2013.02.28 14:05:00 - [20] - Quote Tippia wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Need a new naming system. ^^ Why cats? Cats rule the Internet and hence Internet spaceships? Stupid I know...
Cebraio 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.02.28 14:05:00 - [21] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: Cebraio wrote: Wacktopia wrote: ... The disproportional volume of fighters vs sentries is so great that a carrier can carry 4000 sentry drones. But they usually don't have that many. T2 sentries are expensive. Nobody carries 4000. Only a few hundred. Yes, of course. And T1 are the obvious choice given their expendability. Well, at least in CFC we don't use T1. They are expandable but they also perform much worse.
Mirel Dystoph Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore 35	Posted - 2013.02.28 14:06:00 - [22] - Quote Tippia wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Need a new naming system. ^^ Why cats? Because it's a PL doctrine. "Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."-á
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13038	Posted - 2013.02.28 14:08:00 - [23] - Quote Mirel Dystoph wrote: Tippia wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Need a new naming system. ^^ Why cats? Because it's a PL doctrine. Someone needs to explain to PL that cats aren't slow. They may be careful or just not all that bothered, but at any point where they would actually be slow, they just lie down and don't actually move at all. Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
Cebraio 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.02.28 14:10:00 - [24] - Quote Tippia wrote: Mirel Dystoph wrote: Tippia wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Need a new naming system. ^^ Why cats? Because it's a PL doctrine. Someone needs to explain to PL that cats aren't slow. They may be careful or just not all that bothered, but at any point where they would actually be slow, they just lie down and don't actually move at all. My cat sometimes is so slow that I have to be careful not to trip over her.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13038	Posted - 2013.02.28 14:13:00 - [25] - Quote Cebraio wrote: My cat sometimes is so slow that I have to be careful not to trip over her. That sounds more like it has added another tactic to its plans on killing you. That, or it just can't be bothered, as mentioned. Vote Malcanis for CSM8.
War Kitten Panda McLegion 1758	Posted - 2013.02.28 15:08:00 - [26] - Quote Jake Warbird wrote: Tippia wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Need a new naming system. ^^ Why cats? Cats rule the Internet and hence Internet spaceships? This. Tippia wrote: Someone needs to explain to PL that cats aren't slow. They may be careful or just not all that bothered, but at any point where they would actually be slow, they just lie down and don't actually move at all. Cats lying down and not moving would be the napcat doctrine. While this doctrine is also prevalent in nullsec "combat", it doesn't require any ships. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
Havoc Zealot Sky Fighters Talocan United 20	Posted - 2013.02.28 16:42:00 - [27] - Quote You do know that for every fleet there is a counter right? Anytime someone comes up with an innovative fleet concept there is always another fleet that can destroy it, you just have to think of it first.
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 304	Posted - 2013.02.28 17:45:00 - [28] - Quote Cebraio wrote: There are also counters to slowcats. ... - You can bring slowcats - ... - You can bring Titans and supers Slowcats actually require more work for the average F1 fleet member, so I don't see a problem with that aspect. I'm always suspicious of someone who claims a thing is balanced and then lists that very thing as a counter.
Mire Stoude Antelope with Night Vision Goggles 124	Posted - 2013.02.28 17:47:00 - [29] - Quote What about frigs or destroyers that can snipe sentry drones from outside smart bomb range? If only the FC is doing the target selection and shooting, s/he would waste a lot of dps overkilling small ships.
Rico Minali The Straw Men Dark Therapy 1243	Posted - 2013.02.28 17:51:00 - [30] - Quote So basically what you are saying is that your enemy came up with a nice fleet idea, made enough isk to make it happen and now you cant be bothered to make a counter fleet? OK I can get behind that, please CCP fix it for me to have better stuff than my enemy because I ask you for it. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

Copyright © 2006-2025, Chribba - OMG Labs. All Rights Reserved. - perf 0,10s, ref 20250912/1641
EVE-Online™ and Eve imagery © CCP.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.