There are also counters to slowcats.

- You can try to damp/jam/kill the target caller
- You can use smartbombs and bombs to destroy sentries (Destroying enough T2 sentries will at least make these fleets costly and will reduce DPS while pilots redeploy and reassign.)
- You can bring slowcats
- ...
- You can bring Titans and supers

Slowcats actually require more work for the average F1 fleet member, so I don't see a problem with that aspect.

There are also counters to slowcats.

- You can try to damp/jam/kill the target caller
- You can use smartbombs and bombs to destroy sentries (Destroying enough T2 sentries will at least make these fleets costly and will reduce DPS while pilots redeploy and reassign.)
- You can bring slowcats
- ...
- You can bring Titans and supers

Slowcats actually require more work for the average F1 fleet member, so I don't see a problem with that aspect.

You may want to check the patch notes again. It is infact going to take longer to skill into a carrier than previously

"Are SlowCats worth it?" What do you mean? Are you referring to their performance vs price or is this a stealth nerf thread?


The result of which means it is a tricky tactic to counter if executed correctly.

Generally the tactic vs drones is to destroy the drones because most ships can only field a flight or two of the ones they are using to kill you. On a carrier this is true but only with Fighters. The disproportional volume of fighters vs sentries is so great that a carrier can carry 4000 sentry drones.

A wave of bombers, for example, would normally be enough to wipe out field of drones and would be an effective tactic were it not for the above fact.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this one but I think that perhaps if something were to be done then perhaps if fighters were made to be 2x the volume of a heavy/sentry drone and the carrier drone bay reduced accordingly [20 Fighters | 40 sentries] then it would mean that aoe-blapping the sentries was potentially a viable tactic. But, like I say, don't know how I feel about this.

Kill target caller - small signature heavy tanked T3 Cruiser - repped by carriers?

Damp/Jam - yes but just having few target callers negates this approach.

Smart bomb? 150 carriers against smart bomb BS fleet.
Typical smart bomb bs have 50k ehp tanked 80-90k This makes 5 BS dead every 4 seconds, and carrier can have few hundred sentries on board.

Let the only true solution be "BRING BIGGER SHIPS!!"

You may want to check the patch notes again. It is infact going to take longer to skill into a carrier than previously

As for the bombing - have you tried?
When carriers are not moving - they can instantly scope drones - and redeploy them few seconds after bombs explode.

Need a new naming system.

^^

Why cats?

... The disproportional volume of fighters vs sentries is so great that a carrier can carry 4000 sentry drones.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this one but I think that perhaps if something were to be done then perhaps if fighters were made to be 2x the volume of a heavy/sentry drone and the carrier drone bay reduced accordingly [20 Fighters | 40 sentries] then it would mean that aoe-blapping the sentries was potentially a viable tactic. But, like I say, don't know how I feel about this.

When carriers are not moving - they can instantly scope drones - and redeploy them few seconds after bombs explode.

But they usually don't have that many. T2 sentries are expensive. Nobody carries 4000. Only a few hundred.

^^

Why cats?

Yes, of course. And T1 are the obvious choice given their expendability.

^^

Why cats?

Because it's a PL doctrine.

Someone needs to explain to PL that cats aren't slow. They may be careful or just not all that bothered, but at any point where they would actually be slow, they just lie down and don't actually move at all.

My cat sometimes is so slow that I have to be careful not to trip over her.

Cats rule the Internet and hence Internet spaceships?

Someone needs to explain to PL that cats aren't slow. They may be careful or just not all that bothered, but at any point where they would actually be slow, they just lie down and don't actually move at all.

There are also counters to slowcats.
...
- You can bring slowcats
- ...
- You can bring Titans and supers

Slowcats actually require more work for the average F1 fleet member, so I don't see a problem with that aspect.

The only "problem" with slowcats is they take another capital fleet to counter, but nobody wants to drop caps. Hey guess what a capital fleet needs a capital fleet to counter. Supers and Dreads make quick work of carriers. Quit being scared and drop caps.

Escalate- thats the word for the day escalate, thatd be a good expansion title too

EVE Online: Escalation

The only "problem" with slowcats is they take another capital fleet to counter, but nobody wants to drop caps. Hey guess what a capital fleet needs a capital fleet to counter. Supers and Dreads make quick work of carriers. Quit being scared and drop caps.

Escalate- thats the word for the day escalate, thatd be a good expansion title too

EVE Online: Escalation

I'm always suspicious of someone who claims a thing is balanced and then lists that very thing as a counter.

Didnt they call the "pre-patch" to inferno Escalation?

Oops I ruined your idea.

Well, at least in CFC we don't use T1. They are expendable but they also perform much worse.

I dunno I've seen a fair few Bouncer I clouds left in space with CFC tags.

The ability to assign drones means that the FC only has to attack a target, there is no broadcasting, no reaction times, no human errors etc. In addition, when the drones attack their alpha is high and their dispersion can mean that tracking issues are often mitigated.

Personally, I say CCP should just make it so that carriers can't assign drone control for anything other than fighters and fighter bombers. If you've been around long enough to skill to carriers, you should be competent enough to manage drones on your own.

Also, what General Nusense said. The problem is that one guy can direct the Alpha of a whole fleet.

I still think, counters aside, there's still one really broken mechanic that needs to be addressed, which is of course the fact that we can completely bypass a carrier's limitations on scan resolution and also bypass issues with dozens of pilots trying to focus fire simultaneously simply by assigning all of the fleet's sentries to a single person.

Now , after those few months (from 08/08/2012) the typical slowcat fleet grew to 100-150 carriers , and more pilots are on the way.

So lets talk about 150 slowcats ... shield ones ( after skill changes - they will be quite easy to get):

I don't have a problem with fleets assigning drones to support ships and such. I have a problem with a single subcap being able to control hundreds of drones at the same time.

Falcon?

Screw that adapting crap, CCP is supposed to fix it. Right OP?

*roll*

But bombing / smartbombing is not effective way - why?

What's a slowcat?

This is a horrible thread.

Dropping 150 carriers worth a total of ~200b isk. It is only fair that a scrub fleet of 300 ships worth a total of 150b isk cannot beat the 200b isk fleet.
The Slowcat fleet may be tough to take down, but the impact of losing a 100man carrier fleet is devastating. Slowcats are slow enough to be welped all in one big go, if not used with care.

^^

Why cats?

because using ISK as a manner to balance ships is the proper thing to do, imiright?

Why cats?

Cost is how everything in eve, and pretty much every game ever, is balanced, hth

Ewar is also a good counter for this.. drop a bunch of scorpions with ECM bursts in the middle of those drones and they won't do anything anymore.

To stop a drone from attacking, you need to either jam the attack caller they are assisting, or the drones themselves, yes, carriers hae immense Sensor strength, but it's not the carriers you need to jam, all you need to do is jam those drones ( yes they can be jammed ). A bunch of ECM burst scorps in a blob of sentrycarriers will stop those sentries from shooting.

Then as suggested, bring in a pile of dessies and begin sniping them. And to make sure you do it right, T1 fitted dessies, and offgrid some carriers with spares.

Will CCP find solution for this - or do you see one?

Cost is how everything in eve, and pretty much every game ever, is balanced, hth

Titans die to regular cap fleets, youtube it! Cost wise they should have a 15x advantage, but they don't win.

Advantage doesn't scale as fast as cost does, and doesn't for all the other ships either.

Its probably worth pointing out that a low sig fleet (read; Arty Lokifleet) would find it fairly easy to counter slowcats, and have multiple times, the issue then becomes the 250 Drakes that they brought with them..

can someone explain sentry range please. As I understand it thy are limited by drone control range which with max skill is 60km add 2 black eagles and that is 112km right? so how is hitting anything beyond that range possible?

Im just waiting for CCP to get ideas about nerfing the carriers ability to field standard drones.... like they planned during the great super nerf

You may want to check the patch notes again. It is infact going to take longer to skill into a carrier than previously

Ok now Im confused... ive just read this on eveolapida

Sentry

Sentry Drones are more specialized drones designed for sniping, taking up the same space as heavy drones and requiring the same bandwidth. While the other drones orbit their target at high speed, sentries sit where they are deployed from and fire at enemies from long range. They have a long optimal and falloff as well as more damage and durability, but they have very low tracking speed and are immobile once deployed. Because of this, Sentry drones are best used against large targets or from long ranges. A sentry drone cannot attack targets that are outside its owner's drone control range, even if they are within its own optimal range.


can any1 confirm which is actually true in game?

... the time needed to train racial frigate 4, racial cruiser 4, racial battleship 5 is now replaced by racial frigate 3, racial destroyer 3, racial cruiser 3, racial BC 3, and racial BS 3.

Why black screen?
This can be solved in many different ways.
To be honest - im not happy from TD - now i loose 90% of my time in a battle to achieve my goals.

How can it be solved? I posted somewhere some solution ( not the best one ).
Separate timer for a TD system and after (before) jumping by gate or titan - you have choice :
- wait the diffrence
or
- cancel the jump.

Is this perfect?
No.
But much fair and anty bloob.

Now you just send "few" pilots - and if it will escalate we will ping for new ones to login.

Isn't is L4 across the board for the skills now?

Jump umpteen people into system to cause tidi. Destroy target assets. Bug out before enemy fleet can enter system.

Let say that we battle for over 30 minutes now in TD 10% - this is 6 hours in a Real Life.
6 hours!

No - this is not working this way.
TD is in favor of bigger coalitions - as it allow them to save assets.
The TD actually prevents the major assets to be destroyed.

Ok you catch enemy with their pants down - but TD kicks in. You begin to pop capitals you do this for 6 minutes ... but wait , in the real world, and for the rest of the eve over an hour just passed.

How much capitals , repped by other capitals , you can kill in 6 minutes?
How much frends you can call to help save your assets if you have more than an hour?

You could say - bring your reinforcements ... what for?
Let say that we battle for over 30 minutes now in TD 10% - this is 6 hours in a Real Life.
6 hours!

Now ask yourself simple question how much damage you can do to a capital fleet within 30 minutes ... and how many people , big coalition can call to "HELP" within those 6 hours.

This is a game not a work.

CCP should just ban jabber, teamspeak, alliance forums, and coalitions and making friends and planning ahead and working together and whatever else they have to do until C0VEN: 794 members, can be relevant in nullsec on their own terms.

No - this is not working this way.
TD is in favor of bigger coalitions - as it allow them to save assets.
The TD actually prevents the major assets to be destroyed.

Ok you catch enemy with their pants down - but TD kicks in. You begin to pop capitals you do this for 6 minutes ... but wait , in the real world, and for the rest of the eve over an hour just passed.

How much capitals , repped by other capitals , you can kill in 6 minutes?
How much frends you can call to help save your assets if you have more than an hour?

You could say - bring your reinforcements ... what for?
Let say that we battle for over 30 minutes now in TD 10% - this is 6 hours in a Real Life.
6 hours!

Now ask yourself simple question how much damage you can do to a capital fleet within 30 minutes ... and how many people , big coalition can call to "HELP" within those 6 hours.

This is a game not a work.

Need a new naming system.

As I see it Carriers are by no means going to get easier to fly. Instead they shifted the skill requirements to skills useful for Carriers rather than credit people who specialized in battleships. It makes sense but it means battleship pilots won't just skip up one step without the proper skills to use it at least at a novice level.


Besides capital ships are very situational. It's not like people are going to start roaming with them.

Infinite Cats i say (oh theres, another one, "infiniteCats")