Originally by: mirel yirrin

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We need something like this. so a geddon could fit 8 stabs but it wouldn't be able to fit anything else.

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Edited by: Nyxus on 11/08/2005 00:21:49
I think there is a lot of confusion here on *WHY* a lot of pvper's hate wcs. You have to differentiate between pvpers and gankers.

If someone wants to use 8 stabbies on a travel setup no one cares. I myself have put 8 stabbies on a geddon I bought to try to get home safely to refit. That's fine. No one cares.

The problem is that gankers are smart. Get 3-5 BS loaded with 5 stabbies sitting at long range outside a station. Anything that undocks gets pwned. Anything gets close to them and they warp away. And its incredibly frustrating when you FINALLY sneak 3 ceptors to warp in on top of them and with 4 points of scramble they....<poof> warp off.

You can't catch them. They just wait for a the timer to run out and log. When the system quiets, they log back on rinse and repeat. The stabbies don't effect their combat efficiency. And you can't catch ONE of them without 4+ tacklers. How do you catch someone with 5 stabbies aligned and up to speed? Answer: You can't, unless the ganker is stupid.

Have you ever tried fighting a small group with ALL of the enemy have 5+ stabbies? I have, it sucks. Maybe thier damage isn't optimized, but its still so effective it doesnt matter. And unless you bring MASSIVE overkill fleets you cant kill them before they warp. Bumping is the ONLY way you have a chance to stop them. And fights with 5 to 1 odds are just lame. I dont want to blob, I want a good fight.

No one wants to mess with travel setups. Even 1 or 2 stabs are fine. Anyone who is a pvper hates combat capable ships of 4+ stabbies. This is what has to change.

Travel (relatively) safely, or fight. No more combat with 5 Stabbies.

Nyxus

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Originally by: Baleine4Nerver

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And there you have it, the penalty for fitting is less low slots for damage mods etc.

if you want to stop people leaving a battle, use warp scramblers.

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Originally by: Hellspawn666

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Stabs are balanced wizard ure argument kidna sucks teh guy was using stabs that means that his setup was not as powerful had he not been using stabs u might of been the one who died. Stabs make ure setup ALOT weaker then the enmeis in a 1v1 situation tehre is not 5 stabed raven that can wtfpwn frig anymore so its fairly balanced.

Dont change a system that already works, if i fit 2 stabs on my sacrilige i cant tank half as well as anotehr sacrilige this means i am more likly to lose but it makes me less likly to be ganked its all about penalty the 30 cpu is already high enough penalty. If your going to give it a PG cost then lower the cpu usage.

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Edited by: Nyxus on 11/08/2005 00:21:49
I think there is a lot of confusion here on *WHY* a lot of pvper's hate wcs. You have to differentiate between pvpers and gankers.

If someone wants to use 8 stabbies on a travel setup no one cares. I myself have put 8 stabbies on a geddon I bought to try to get home safely to refit. That's fine. No one cares.

The problem is that gankers are smart. Get 3-5 BS loaded with 5 stabbies sitting at long range outside a station. Anything that undocks gets pwned. Anything gets close to them and they warp away. And its incredibly frustrating when you FINALLY sneak 3 ceptors to warp in on top of them and with 4 points of scramble they....<poof> warp off.

You can't catch them. They just wait for a the timer to run out and log. When the system quiets, they log back on rinse and repeat. The stabbies don't effect their combat efficiency. And you can't catch ONE of them without 4+ tacklers. How do you catch someone with 5 stabbies aligned and up to speed? Answer: You can't, unless the ganker is stupid.

Have you ever tried fighting a small group with ALL of the enemy have 5+ stabbies? I have, it sucks. Maybe thier damage isn't optimized, but its still so effective it doesnt matter. And unless you bring MASSIVE overkill fleets you cant kill them before they warp. Bumping is the ONLY way you have a chance to stop them. And fights with 5 to 1 odds are just lame. I dont want to blob, I want a good fight.

No one wants to mess with travel setups. Even 1 or 2 stabs are fine. Anyone who is a pvper hates combat capable ships of 4+ stabbies. This is what has to change.

Travel (relatively) safely, or fight. No more combat with 5 Stabbies.

Nyxus

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Originally by: Moghydin

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Originally by: Haggislander

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Hi,

The solution to all your junk above is to STAY OUT OF DANGEROUS AREAS. I dont want to hear any RL (crappy) analogy, this is a space game.

CCP has provided you with TONS of .5+ space to roam in worry free (for the most part). IF you want to play with the big boys, you need to understand the consiquences. If you want only consentual pvp (***) go play WOW or someother cardboard cutout, k?

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I see the whinage about WCS as another attempt from the PvP comunity to further nerf the empire space and empire pilots. And I'm afraid that as in the case with lvl 4 mission nerf, you'll get what you ask. I don't want to start that risk/reward thing. It's off-topic and it's clear that gankers have only reward/no risk situation.
Many talk about frustration when a prey escapes. I feel your pain. But what about frustration when you lose your ship? Why doesn't it count? Or is it less frustrating? Any ship can have only up to 8 WCS starength. Tackler can throw at him up to 16 scrambling strength. Where's the problem? Use tacklers.

In PvP a ship with 4 WCS has either reduced dmg output or reduced tanking. So, no problem here too. And who said that a road to fight is a one way ticket if you lose? Why the possibility of retreat from a battle should be nerfed? Having non-standard ship setups is part of fun and challenge. Using different modules smart and tactical manuvering (sp) in battle is a good thing. If you want an arcade style shoot em all game, go and play Quake with some 13 year old m3gawtfpwnage kid.

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Originally by: Deros

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Edited by: Deros on 10/08/2005 19:37:29
guys, take a deep breath and calm down, i have the firm belief that they need only small tweaking.

No increased changes to fitting,
No negative effects on CAP

and most definately

No to making their effect chance based. (yes i tested it, and i think the current system is better, apart from the power of stabs).

simply give them a stacking penalty, which should only kick in after 3 are fitted, and then give them a negative effect on the agility of the ship that they are fitted on.

at the moment they are overpowered, but people need to get less bent out of shape about it.

yes i pvp, no i am not an alt, and no i dont want an i win button either.

Deros

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Originally by: Verone

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Make them midslot again, slightly more CPU usage, and give them a stacking penalty like damage mods have.

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Originally by: Verone

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Make them midslot again, slightly more CPU usage, and give them a stacking penalty like damage mods have.

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Originally by: Reptar

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We need to encourage more people into 0.0, nerfing the Stabs will only prevent this

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Originally by: Moghydin

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Originally by: Verone

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Make them midslot again, slightly more CPU usage, and give them a stacking penalty like damage mods have.

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No problem, but make scramblers stack on target too, also make named and factional stabs at 2 and 3 strength. And plz stop asking CCP for "I win" button in ganking.
Well, not all PvP in Eve is ganking, as I was able to see it myself today, and not everyone engages only when he is 100% sure he will win, but MOST PvP in Eve is gank, so if WCS nerfed, ganked gate can be only passed if you bring a huge battleship fleet there - not good at all.

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