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Wizard
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:34:00 -
[1]
Right the 1 thing that gets my goat up in this game more than anything is warpstabilisers.
I propose they get there fitting reqs. changed in the same manner as mwds/abs did.
For example after trying to have 1 v 1 recently with a geddon he manages to align and warp in what must be 1-5% structure ( yet again ).
Lucky him but i might add that once again my opponent put up a fierce fight back.
If you fit stabs there must be a penelty, i think bs sized ab for example should req. 50 cpu and 2500 powergrid.
Cruiser sized stabs 40 cpu and 250 grid.
Frigate sized stabs 30 cpu and 20 powergrid.
The above changes ( im no geek with figures etc like some of you ) will allow people to either fit stabs still if they TRAVEL, but will seriously gimp there ships if they wish to participate in the little known passtime of PVP.
No flames plz, constructive comments only.
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:40:00 -
[2]
We need something like this. so a geddon could fit 8 stabs but it wouldn't be able to fit anything else.
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05.05.05 16:22 [Notify}
Combat Your Mega pulse Laser 2 strikes bunny, wrecking for 983.2 dmg
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... <<< Now Bunny is made of ash >:D
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:44:00 -
[3]
I've given up worrying about balancing long ago but this actually sounds like a pretty neat idea. I always had the opinion stabs should only really be useful when you're travelling.
Mai's Idealog |
Baleine4Nerver
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:49:00 -
[4]
And there you have it, the penalty for fitting is less low slots for damage mods etc.
if you want to stop people leaving a battle, use warp scramblers.
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In the immortal words of Socrates...
"I drank what ? " |
Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:51:00 -
[5]
As I unerstand whole warp core str. system will be changed soon so no need for any ideas and suggestions right now.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:52:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Baleine4Nerver
And there you have it, the penalty for fitting is less low slots for damage mods etc.
if you want to stop people leaving a battle, use warp scramblers.
Wheres the balance?
I've heard it all - you suck - bring friends - organise blah blah.
Current system is less than perfect imo - hard to get 9 points on a ship that is aligned and at speed.
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Baleine4Nerver
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Wheres the balance?
I've heard it all - you suck - bring friends - organise blah blah.
Current system is less than perfect imo - hard to get 9 points on a ship that is aligned and at speed.
I tend to agree, aligning and warping in a 1 v 1 is a bit lame.
But I cant see what can be done as the flip side of the encounter your talking about.. a consensual (i presume) 1 v 1 , is a non consenusal gang fest.
Maybe involving 1 or more fast locking tackling frigates v's a lone traveller not wanting to PvP. So why shouldnt these people protect themselves with WCS to enable escape.
if you do away with WCS then shouldnt you do away with scamblers, bubbles etc etc etc.
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In the immortal words of Socrates...
"I drank what ? " |
babyblue
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:17:00 -
[8]
If you want to keep him in sight, use scamblers. If he fits enough WCS to avoid you even when you have them, he's seriously gimped his 'geddon damage setup.
The fitting of multiple WCS without penalty is required due to the fact that most encounters *are not* 1v1 in Eve. I've been ganked packing 8 WCS at a camp point (for travel). There isn't a problem. If anything, they need to be stronger :)
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:18:00 -
[9]
Simply make em highslot, either fight or run.
Of course Indys would get a bit shafted but some extra non-turret/missile slots could fix that 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Wizard
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Baleine4Nerver
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Wheres the balance?
I've heard it all - you suck - bring friends - organise blah blah.
Current system is less than perfect imo - hard to get 9 points on a ship that is aligned and at speed.
I tend to agree, aligning and warping in a 1 v 1 is a bit lame.
But I cant see what can be done as the flip side of the encounter your talking about.. a consensual (i presume) 1 v 1 , is a non consenusal gang fest.
Maybe involving 1 or more fast locking tackling frigates v's a lone traveller not wanting to PvP. So why shouldnt these people protect themselves with WCS to enable escape.
if you do away with WCS then shouldnt you do away with scamblers, bubbles etc etc etc.
The problem here and no offense to you, but half my time i want to pvp solo, haveing ships atack me with full offensive then manage to egt away when they bite of more than they can chew.
Ahhh, no wait i c an answer to this now, ive been so jaded and my judgment so unclear....................lets take a geddon for example.
I shall fitit out like this solo next time so i can actually stop most people from getting away.
7 guns ( whatever, not important )
2 faction 3 point scramblers ( mizuro cybons i think ) and 1 mwd
8 nanofibers
Ahh yes no one shall escape me, i just hope they get gd price for my loot when i fail to kill them.
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Wizard
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Simply make em highslot, either fight or run.
Of course Indys would get a bit shafted but some extra non-turret/missile slots could fix that
Very very very BAD idea, youd have people fitting uber tank and all stabs in high slots, going in as bait and then getting out leaving the others aggressed to be ganked, would be very sad.
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:35:00 -
[12]
But there already is a big penalty to using a WCS, its called giving up a lowslot and a fair bit of CPU. Amarr and gallente cant do this without gimping their tank and/or damage, and caldari/minnie dont have enough lows to do anything even if they wanted to.
If they dont want to fight they dont want to fight, and at the very least should require a major effort to stop them if theyve fitted themselves to not get stopped.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Baleine4Nerver
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:38:00 -
[13]
None taken.
The balance is there though , WCS vs Warp scramblers. theres the balance.
The trade of is using slots for WCS that could be used for damage mods etc etc.
Or using low slots for said items and not being able to get away.
Also, this guy you fought, I dont really see why he shuldnt try and protect his assets. He seems to have stayed in the fight until he was at 5% structure.
You won he lost, honour has been served. Just because you didnt get the money shot, although frustrating, doesnt matter that much.
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In the immortal words of Socrates...
"I drank what ? " |
Drilla
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:38:00 -
[14]
Wizard it would be usefull :)
With stabs in highslots the covert ops you have scouting can choose 'look at' the BS and see X number of stabs fitted etc.
I think putting them in highslot is excellent or give scramblers/disruptors a 100% chance of scrambling if the warp cores < scrambling strength but if warpcores >= scrambling based make it chance based and extend the 5 sec to 30 sec again :D
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.08.09 12:58:00 -
[15]
How long do you expect the game to last if this change was implemented?
You do realize most people consider losing a ship to a gank gang they have no chance of beating to be un-fun right?
You also realize most people don't pay for things that aren't fun or necessary right?
Sorry, but I keep seeing gankers whine about lack of targets and then propose lame ideas to make ganking even more of a sure kill guarenteeing even FEWER targets.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:17:00 -
[16]
That's the most ridiculous thread I've read here. So you want WCS nerfed. Why? You can find scramblers that have 2 or 3 strength, but all WCS have 1 strength. There is some logic behind that because scramblers use mid slot and stabs use low slot, but what you propose will make the issue totally unbalanced. Stabs at high slots with strength 1? Stabs that use so much of grid or CPU that fitting weapons or tanking setup is impossible? Ship with stabs being unable to do anything but run? So, if it's after all scrambled (which can be achieved easily in a gang) the ship is a defenceless target? Even now the gankers and PK's have a lot of cool staff at their disposal, nerf stabs and you can rename Eve to PKers online.
But I think the proposed nerf will only contribute to the PvPer fun at the expense of everyone esle's fun. As in Eve PvP means you engage ship when you're 100% sure of the victory, something like taking a candy from a toddler - very funny and extremely challenging.
As to OP's post. I see no problem here. They guy warped at 1 on 1. You won, he lost. Where's the problem?
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Andicuri Vas
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:36:00 -
[17]
Maybe the reason that you were able to get into his structure is because he sacrificed tanking slots for the ability to run away: wcs. Isn't it just that simple?
I don't get what all of the wcs whining is about. Just like RL....some people are big and bad, some people are quick and slippery.....so what?
A
V
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:36:00 -
[18]
Hopefully, if they are rebuilding the warp core (+/-) items, they make them more like the EW gear, with chance base, with extended range and falloff, accompanied by skills for increasing the ability to use (+/-) modules.
(+/-) = (Stabilizers/Scramblers)
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:58:00 -
[19]
I have to agree with the poster. WCS are lame in combat.
If your going 1v1 with someone and you fit 1 wcs you cannot lose in 75% of engagements. You'll only lose if the other guys got a 7.5km scram on (eg hes using blaster setup) or if hes got multiple 20km disrupters on (eg his setup gimped more than the guy with 1 wcs).
4 times I've eengaged different hacs in my ferox and every time kicked thier buts.. they dive deep into armor.. I cackle manicly practicly wetting myself with excitement and expectation of the kill mail.. and then whoooosh.. the hac disapears..
I kick myself thinking maybe I havent turned on the 20km disrupter?? but nope I did, he just had wcs on 
Now this is just my experience, and IMHO wcs just promote mass ganking and gate camping. Its much easyier to try and nuke the guys at a gate before he can warp away.
Increasing fitting requirements is tricky though. there are several frig travel setups that would break completely, most of thses without guns anyway.
I'd like to propose a different solution.. give us warp scrambling drones \o/.
The same speed and size as light scouts, but that scramble with 0.5 strength. Make em fast but make it so they have a scramble range of 3->5km max. Also a hard limit of 30km range.
You couldnt use them for ganking frigs at gates as they'd never get in range in time. But once someone decides to engage you could then use them as you'd have sufficent time to let them close.
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aeti
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:59:00 -
[20]
highslot + agility nerf
all is good
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Peoke
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:09:00 -
[21]
wow i think u should also post that putting tanks is lame and also stacking damage mods is even worse. as some one said before instead of extra damage or a tank warpcore is a way out. if u really wanted to kill the person fix ur setup and get more scrams on him thats all their is to it. if ur going to complain and nerf one thing then put others that are similar.
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:16:00 -
[22]
Quote:
highslot + agility nerf
IMHO highslot maybe.. agility nerf? meh, would screw up genuine travel setups
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:17:00 -
[23]
Plz explain something to me. Is ganking a difficult task now? It's one of the easiest things to do. So, now some ppl want to nerf the anti-gank defence. For me, it's too much. You hardly can pass a system in low sec without a band of griefers waiting for you. WCS is one of the few in-game defences against gank, a defence which allowes a person, not interested in PvP to avoid PvP. Why it should be nerfed? Those who seek combat don't use it, or use it at minimum lvl, because they don't want to sacrifice their dmg dealing or tanking capabilities. Only those who don't want to fight will use it a lot. Even now 8 WCS geddon can be scrambled and destroyed. What next? Make WCS useless, so that it'll be even more fun at endless kill-boards, so that the competition for the uber-griefer of Eve will become even more exciting? For me, and I'm sure I'm not alone here, another gank boost will mean, I'll have to check the other options, and I mean outside Eve. And don't ask me for my staff as I see these cynical posts coming.
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:18:00 -
[24]
well if WCS was chance based it would migth be cool..
i am no math specialist but some thing about.
1 stab gives a lets say 50 % of stabilise u warp
and 1 scrambler give a 50% chance etc..
then whit a stack bonus u might have 2 stabs that gives 75 % and so on
i know some could figure out a cool way to get this work..
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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Astarte Nosferatu
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:19:00 -
[25]
I agree 100% with Wizard 
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Member of the [23]
Follower of the Blood Revolution.
Sani Sabik.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:23:00 -
[26]
Higher Fitting reqs, and a way to tell if your opponent is using stabs... for isntance, you might call a geddon primary in like a 5v5... but if you can only scramble for -6 and see that this guy has 8 stabs on... You just leave him till last :)
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:23:00 -
[27]
Quote:
wow i think u should also post that putting tanks is lame and also stacking damage mods is even worse. as some one said before instead of extra damage or a tank warpcore is a way out. if u really wanted to kill the person fix ur setup and get more scrams on him thats all their is to it. if ur going to complain and nerf one thing then put others that are similar.
WCS are completely different to tanks and dammage mod stacking and to try and compare them kinda sucks.
Go gank and you have no tank, go tank and you cut your firepower massively. Fit a wcs and what do you give up?? almost nothing but a low slot and tiny bit of grid. what does it give you? Just 1 wcs is a get out of jail free card in most 1v1's, simple. tanks and gank setups arent.
You can engage in pvp with minimal risk with 1 and almost no risk at all with 2 if you in dont do something stupid.
leave the fitting reqs alone.. just give us scrambling drones IMHO.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:23:00 -
[28]
Everyone smacks us for wearing stabs, yet we have killed plenty of Atuk/Bob/5 members loaded with them. Stillettos are the way forward.
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wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Saladin
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:24:00 -
[29]
When stabs were medium slot items and consumed cap, people used them a lot less than they did today. I never knew why they became a low slot passive module.
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:27:00 -
[30]
there is one thing that should be kept in mind when proposing changes to wcs. chance based scrambling would be horrible. it would nerf ransoming piracy as the target would have a chance of warping away every scram cycle and lead to pure gankage.
say NO to chance based scram!
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