| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Martinus Crimson
   |
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:13:00 -
[1]
Ok here i'm gonna try to make a constructive post about one of the biggest things that still annoy me in EVE.
The thing that annoy's me the most is the undock -> dock bug/exploit/feature. I don't like people that pop thier head out, don't like whats on the outside, and dock again.
To me its about the same as allowing someone to jump trough the gate and land right in jumprange on the other side, so if the other side is camped he just jumps back.
Some of you would say there as irrirating as instajumps and instadocks. Your right, but instajumps and instadocks can be countered by mobile warp disruptors. The undock dock feature is impossible to counter(allthough i just watched the bumpageddon vid and that gave me an idea .. )
Am i the only PVP'er that thinks this seriously ****s over gameplay ?
-----------------------
|
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:26:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
Am i the only PVP'er that thinks this seriously ****s over gameplay ?
Don¦t know if you are the only PVP¦er thinking so, but you are for sure not the only stationcamper that wishes a change 
Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire. |
Justice Starcatcher
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:27:00 -
[3]
Not this whine again. If it annoys you go do something else. Stations are not like gates, everytime you jump into a system you should be jumping into the unknown. A station is already in the system. With all those windows why shouldn't you be able to look out. Since you can't it's only fair you can pop back in.
What the... |
Shamis Orzoz
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:29:00 -
[4]
redocking is an easier way of doing it than implementing windows. It doesn't make sense to for people inside a space station to have no idea what is outside it.
|
Olin Garn
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:34:00 -
[5]
I think there needs to be a middle ground.
Make activating hardeners or repairers/boosters a action that is offensive or at least make it possible so that if a hostile is in the area at the time you do it then you are flagged for the time period cos i get more annoyed at the ones who undock, let you shoot them and then redock. especially ones that do it to check what sort of setup your running.
|
Engelious Angelion
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:48:00 -
[6]
i must admit that the redock feat. bug's me insane sometimes, wen your on the hunt for a hostile. that said, i cant see a real problem with it, it should be possible for people in stations to get a veiw of whats outside.
|
Hal2
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:50:00 -
[7]
Every time i've tried to redock right after undocking I get a delay - am I missing something here?
|
Quanteeri
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hal2
Every time i've tried to redock right after undocking I get a delay - am I missing something here?
Exactly, Isn't that something that has been buffed already? The redock timer?
|
Sorja
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hal2
Every time i've tried to redock right after undocking I get a delay - am I missing something here?
As soon as you undock, select the station and clic 'dock' repeatedly.
When the 'loading' timers comes to an end, you'll dock bedore anything can get a lock on you.
On a side note, it is still possible to smartbomb people undocking, while it shouldn't be possible to activate smartbombs within 5km of a station, so that bug should be fixed too, because it leads to cheap tactics.
Talking about cheap tactics, the OP seems to know quite a deal.
I fail to see how PvP is remotely related to gate/station camping, but it seems a fair proportion of EVE self-proclamed PvPers want it on a silver plate.
We probably don't have the same conception of combat, but never mind
|
Ashelth
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:13:00 -
[10]
The redock timer is 30 seconds.
And honestly, does this matter?
If you're camping someone that hard in a station they'll just log and go do something else.
|
Winterblink
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:29:00 -
[11]
Soooo...
Undocking, being greeted by a ganksquad, and docking again because I don't want to lose my ship in "combat" is an exploit?
I mean if it's 1v1 sure, it's a bit of a cheeseball thing to do unless you're going to fit yourself up so the guy gets more of a challenge. But if the odds are clearly stacked against me then how is it stupid if I don't want to just lose my ship?
Just playing devil's advocate here.. :)
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
dmaul raven
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:47:00 -
[12]
lol, if cannot redock, at least i want windows in stations. It makes no sense to me to undock without knowing whats on the outside.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Miri Tirzan
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:52:00 -
[13]
Gotta agree with Winter, sure seems like a gankers whine. I can see fixing this when we see what is out side the station.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Srewolf Bane
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Martinus Crimson
Ok here i'm gonna try to make a constructive post about one of the biggest things that still annoy me in EVE.
The thing that annoy's me the most is the undock -> dock bug/exploit/feature. I don't like people that pop thier head out, don't like whats on the outside, and dock again.
To me its about the same as allowing someone to jump trough the gate and land right in jumprange on the other side, so if the other side is camped he just jumps back.
Some of you would say there as irrirating as instajumps and instadocks. Your right, but instajumps and instadocks can be countered by mobile warp disruptors. The undock dock feature is impossible to counter(allthough i just watched the bumpageddon vid and that gave me an idea ..)
Am i the only PVP'er that thinks this seriously ****s over gameplay ?
Station campers are 10 times lower than gate campers... no sympathy for you at all.
------------------------------------------------
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink, when they wake up in the morning that's the best they will feel all day" - Frank Sinatra |
Quanteeri
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ashelth
The redock timer is 30 seconds.
And honestly, does this matter?
If you're camping someone that hard in a station they'll just log and go do something else.
I must be getting a lot of lag coming out of stations then, cause it never reads more than like 11 secs left to me.
|
Siri Danae
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Gotta agree with Winter, sure seems like a gankers whine. I can see fixing this when we see what is out side the station.
Gankers to the left of me,
Carebears to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you...
------
I generally assume the following:
1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers.
2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears.
3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners. |
Kraven Kor
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Siri Danae
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Gotta agree with Winter, sure seems like a gankers whine. I can see fixing this when we see what is out side the station.
Gankers to the left of me,
Carebears to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you...
You owe me a new keyboard.
But, yeah, this is a pretty silly complaint. I know it is frustrating to be hunting someone and they just hide in station, but seriously...
The need to just make it so we can get an external station view before undocking. If they give us that, sure, you can have your undock -> dock bug/exploit fixed. There is no logical or gameplay reason why I should have to be undocking blind.
|
Professor McFly
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Justice Starcatcher
Not this whine again. If it annoys you go do something else. Stations are not like gates, everytime you jump into a system you should be jumping into the unknown. A station is already in the system. With all those windows why shouldn't you be able to look out. Since you can't it's only fair you can pop back in.
Quoted for truth.
|
Winterblink
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Siri Danae
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Gotta agree with Winter, sure seems like a gankers whine. I can see fixing this when we see what is out side the station.
Gankers to the left of me,
Carebears to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you...
Hey, for the record I said I was playing devil's advocate, not siding with either group. :) That being said, you should do a cover of the song and get it played on EVE Radio.
Don't worry about not having a singing voice either, that doesn't stop any of their DJs so it shouldn't stop you. :)
|
Martinus Crimson
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 21:48:00 -
[20]
Its allways pleasant to be called a ganker and whiner on these forums. Thats when i realize i'm home again.
For the record, YES there are moments i have nice big gank fleet with me and everyone instadocks and then plays the undock-dock game.
This would be fair i guess, wouldn't it that thier invunrable the WHOLE freaking time.
Another thing :
1 vs 1's when somebody is undocking is impossible if the person fly's a slightly tanked ship. The agg timer is so short that if the person ends up wanting out of the fight he just stops agging and redocks after the timer wears off.
Anyway i was just curious for the general consensis, and now i'm fully aware what that is. 
-----------------------
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 21:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Martinus Crimson
This would be fair i guess, wouldn't it that thier invunrable the WHOLE freaking time.
Can you seriously come up with a valid reason for us having to undock and put ourselves at risk, just to find out what's TWO METRES AWAY FROM THE STATION? Cos i can't. I'm pretty sure that given twenty thousand years of advances, we'd have re-invented the window by now.
_______
I tried strip mining, but I lost and it's cold flying around in space naked. |
Sturgis
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 22:39:00 -
[22]
Are you kidding me? Do you know how annoying that would be just for general game purposes?
You do know that there is currently a bug that offlines all your modules when you switch ships sometimes, right? And, even though you're not supposed to be able to undock with modules offline, you still can in this case.
It happened to me just last night. I switched to my hauler to go collect loot cans in my mission, undocked, and realized all my modules were offline. Now, you want me to have to wait 5 minutes or something to redock so I can fix this bug? Or a hundred other routine situations where you undock and forget something. Oh wait, I left something on the loading dock I need. Oh wait, I forgot to restock my ammo. Oh wait, I forgot to switch out this module or that. Do you know how utterly annoying it would make general gameplay if you had to wait even longer than the already instituted redock timer?
Sorry, bub. Not a good idea.
Sturgis
Concord Special Services |
Khargos
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 22:43:00 -
[23]
can i have your stuff?
|
Nemasis
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 22:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Martinus Crimson
Am i the only PVP'er that thinks this seriously ****s over gameplay ?
Yeah and who the f*ck are you and who the f*ck are crimson navy?...have a tissue
|
ZephyrFox
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 22:45:00 -
[25]
I think two things should be done about docking:
1.) You should be able to access your ship's or the station's scanner. It's pretty silly to be surrounded by all this high-tech gear and launch yourself clueless into an unknown situation. Even if it's only a fairly basic scan, just enough to see what's out there.
2.) When undocking, it should be similar to leaving an aircraft carrier. The ship should be launched at a decent clip and at full throttle. This would help especially with newer players (like myself ;)) who get stuck bouncing around because they tried turning on autopilot too soon. That and it could make for some exciting blockade runs.
|
Aitrus
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 22:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Winterblink
Soooo...
Undocking, being greeted by a ganksquad, and docking again because I don't want to lose my ship in "combat" is an exploit?
I mean if it's 1v1 sure, it's a bit of a cheeseball thing to do unless you're going to fit yourself up so the guy gets more of a challenge. But if the odds are clearly stacked against me then how is it stupid if I don't want to just lose my ship?
Just playing devil's advocate here.. :)
heh, tactically retreating = h4xploit
Seriously, part of being a good fighter is picking your fights with some intelligence. Expecting someone to willingly lose their ship to overwhelming odds is rather stupid.
|
MadJackMcJones
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 23:41:00 -
[27]
So let me get this straight, you're complaining about the fact that people who don't particularly want to throw themselves at the ***** Brigade waiting outside are allowed to redock? How about this additional change then: All stations are now equipped with more weapons then a fleet of battleships, and the weapons officer has an itchy trigger-finger.
|
Ekscalybur
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 02:45:00 -
[28]
This lack of a window feature seems kinda cheese ball to me, as much as the undocking blind bit. What good would a window do? Some of these stations are over 20 kilometers long, and you usually dock and undock at one end. Put in a window and a station camper will just sit somewhere in the HUGE blindspot that window or windows won't give you access to.
Seems to me that what should be implemented is something you can find at all airports today. A list of flights approaching the airport, and their ETA. Just add a new button in the station UI that will list everyone outside the station, and everyone warping towards the station. This should provide next to zero workload to the server, as this window would only be reporting what the server is already tracking. Anyone withing say, sentry gun firing range and all those midwarp to the station would show up on this list.
Heck, this list could also add to those PvPers who go hunting for bounties/vengeance. Add a recent history to the list that would save who was at that station in the last 15 minutes and towards what warpable object they went to when they undocked. (bookmarks in the middle of no where would report back as destination unknown)
If you want to keep something, lock it up. Do NOT flush it out of your cargohold into empty space and expect to keep it. |
nahtoh
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 03:18:00 -
[29]
Even just a scanner option that allows you to see all uncloaked ships with in a say 200 KM range of the station (distance is varible).
This would allow ambushes with a covert ops ship.
The only down side being forgeting to check or my personal fav remebering what you forgot to do as teh undocking screen reloads 
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
|
Lorth
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 04:13:00 -
[30]
Well I actually dissagree with you, but I'm not going to add to the OMG your a griefer replys that seem to subsitute for a real argument now a days.
Personally, I do think there is a need for people to be able to see whats out side a station. Since there are no windows, this is the best way to do this, and its really not a concern that people can dock and redock. In all reality, most of the people who do this, wouldn't give you a fight anyways. Or even undock, after looking at the local count.
Though one thing about this, that does bother me, is thanks to the timer, one can often warp off in a small ship, before even the fastest locking intys can get you. I remember back when IMP + SUPRM were fighting NORAD, we would camp the gates and stations in the outher ring (yes very boreing, but we were trying to destroy and allience, it needed to be done.) Useing a BM made for the purpose, NORAD indys were able to undock, and warp off before even a sensor booster stilleto could scramble them.
Now I understand the need for a redock option. But I will never understand why a ship as slow as an indy, can easily warp out of a heavyly camped station. That is simply unfair, redocking would be perfectly fine, warping away before anyone can even lock, is simply wrong.
|
Scoundrelus
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 04:39:00 -
[31]
In my opinion camping is wrong. Im against it and I dont do it. Its basically keeping someone from playing a game that they PAY for. So any "feature" that discourages camping is in my goodbook.
===============================================
I will punch you with my laser!
-Scoundrelus |
Icarus Starkiller
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 04:46:00 -
[32]
Jeeeze crud, WTF is the big farking deal?
Pirates want their cake and eat it too. You gotta know I've seen my fare share of gankers, ****ers, pizzants, and others pop their head out of a station, check out what's shooting, and re-dock.
Big frikkin deal. What? You want a mod that will forcibly undock? How about a nice shiny 'I WIN' button?
Get a grip. Just because someone uses the same feature YOU do and gets away from your instagank does not mean that they're not allowed to do so.
Go actually hunt someone down, away from a gate, away from the station you've been camping for the last seventeen hours hoping and praying that the next ship to undock can't shoot at you before you gank it during its load phaze lag.
Squeeze off, go play WoW or Countersnipe, where cheezy little wannabes can scream 'headshot!' for hours and cry themselves suicidal the first time they get turnabout.
Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something. |
Winterblink
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 05:07:00 -
[33]
Holy frack, Icarus... I wouldn't recommend my worst enemy play WoW... that's just cold, man.
|
F'nog
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 06:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Winterblink
Holy frack, Icarus... I wouldn't recommend my worst enemy play WoW... that's just cold, man.
ROFL. 
Originally by: Morela
"hey! I'm gonna go attack the north! Afk till tuesday!"
|
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 06:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
Big frikkin deal. What? You want a mod that will forcibly undock? How about a nice shiny 'I WIN' button?
Well, I don't like First Person Shooters (although BF2 is cool!) much at all, but sometimes I really wouldn't mind a feature that let me dock and take a squad of Marines to whatever room a target is staying in and BOOOOM, HEADSHOT!!!! his ass. 
-
We're outnumbered! That simplifies the problem! |
Manfred Doomhammer
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 06:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Winterblink
Holy frack, Icarus... I wouldn't recommend my worst enemy play WoW... that's just cold, man.
and there i was, looking for a quote to add to my signature...
thanks winterblink
----
Manfred Doomhammer
Fleet Admiral
CEO ShadowTec Inc.
"Holy frack, Icarus... I wouldn't recommend my worst enemy play WoW... that's just cold, man." -- winterblink
|
Manfred Doomhammer
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 06:50:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
Big frikkin deal. What? You want a mod that will forcibly undock? How about a nice shiny 'I WIN' button?
Well, I don't like First Person Shooters (although BF2 is cool!) much at all, but sometimes I really wouldn't mind a feature that let me dock and take a squad of Marines to whatever room a target is staying in and BOOOOM, HEADSHOT!!!! his ass.
hmm.. thought about that one too, but then, it would depend on the station.. i can foresee troubles storming a Navy or DED station with a hitsquad... and survive
----
Manfred Doomhammer
Fleet Admiral
CEO ShadowTec Inc.
"Holy frack, Icarus... I wouldn't recommend my worst enemy play WoW... that's just cold, man." -- winterblink
|
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 07:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
Jeeeze crud, WTF is the big farking deal?
Pirates want their cake and eat it too. You gotta know I've seen my fare share of gankers, ****ers, pizzants, and others pop their head out of a station, check out what's shooting, and re-dock.
Big frikkin deal. What? You want a mod that will forcibly undock? How about a nice shiny 'I WIN' button?
Get a grip. Just because someone uses the same feature YOU do and gets away from your instagank does not mean that they're not allowed to do so.
Go actually hunt someone down, away from a gate, away from the station you've been camping for the last seventeen hours hoping and praying that the next ship to undock can't shoot at you before you gank it during its load phaze lag.
Squeeze off, go play WoW or Countersnipe, where cheezy little wannabes can scream 'headshot!' for hours and cry themselves suicidal the first time they get turnabout.
Wow, considering some of the lame arse tactics your corp pulls I'm surprised at your reaction.
Then again, your normally the ones in the station fondling your warp core stab bpo's and refusing 1v1's.
I think the point is, people do it just to be annoying. Everybody knows when they are camped. I know where Martinus "lives" in EVE and there are more alts than main chars.
They do it to irritate because they dont engage unless they outblob by a factor of 2/1
I'd be all for a feature that lets you know what is on grid outside the stn. Then if you do decide to undock you are stuck for a minute or 2.
|
Randuin MaraL
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 07:36:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lifewire
Quote:
Am i the only PVP'er that thinks this seriously ****s over gameplay ?
Don¦t know if you are the only PVP¦er thinking so, but you are for sure not the only stationcamper that wishes a change
Well, well, to some extend ... but as long as there are no windows in these stations ... Give 'em windows, I say
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Panshin Bolo
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 08:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Siri Danae
Gankers to the left of me,
Carebears to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you...
There goes my coffee !
|
hired goon
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 09:30:00 -
[41]
I don't believe nobody has posted a link to that pic of the pirate outside the station windows! DO SO NOW.
Also, I demand a link to this 'bumpageddon' vid as mentioned earlier in the thread.
And while station camping by pirates is bad, this dock/undock feature is annoying during wartime as well, or for alliances. I say introduce a fix, since in a worst case scenario you could jump in an alt and check it out.
Or log off Eve, since it's times like these (and unexpected reboots) that are your only chance to try the F.E.A.R singleplayer demo, or unlock that weapon in BF2!
------------
We come in peace. And tanks. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 09:35:00 -
[42]
I honestly don't see the problem.
If they are docked you are winning.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Marvel Master
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 09:48:00 -
[43]
1. Provoke aggression. Then you can destroy him.
2. The dock timer is 30 seconds. If you have enough firepower, you can destroy him in this time.
3. Fly into 0.0 and make there PvP.
Marvel
|
lythos miralbar
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 10:30:00 -
[44]
recently we have had some problems with a certain corp that seem to have a love of staying docked.
I've lost count of the number of times we've sat there, with them outnumbering us in local or at worse with even numbers, and prayed there was a way to forcibly undock someone just to get a fight.
Apart form a couple of individuals they only want to fight when they heavily outnumber the opposition.
However.. whilst sometimes even I've wished for a forcibly undock option I would at the end of the day not want to see this in game or any changes to the docking/undocking mechanism.
If there were changes made then before undocking you really would need players to be able to see..
1) all uncloaked ships witin 4 au of the station (if they can scan the station at a ss im DAMM sure the station can scan them.). obviously you want distance from the station aswell.
2) who the pilots of those ships are
People could then make up thier own mind if it was safe to undock or not.
I'd sugest there would be a fee for this infomation linked to your standing with the owning faction. if you have a perfect standing then its free. real bad standings (-5 or lower) and its unavailable or something like 500k isk to reprisent a bribe to someone to get it.
|
lythos miralbar
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 10:33:00 -
[45]
Quote:
1. Provoke aggression. Then you can destroy him.
2. The dock timer is 30 seconds. If you have enough firepower, you can destroy him in this time.
3. Fly into 0.0 and make there PvP.
1. only an idiot falls for that, and they deserve to die
2. no you cant. you cant target them till the timer runs out, and then they can just redock.
3. the same mechanics apply in 0.0
|
Bragga
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 11:29:00 -
[46]
Got ganked at a station last night, my own fault really, guy was sitting there waiting for me and I was too busy typing in the chat window... Kinda sucked really, this big nasty BS slaughtering my Industrial in zeropointhree seconds flat. Leaves a bad taste, but what can you do?
Eve is a little like a school playground, there are nice kids and there are nasty kids, the nasty ones in eve are of course very nasty and get a kick out of destroying things even if there is no point. It satisfies the inner bully in them I guess...
So, in all it doesn't surprise me to see a station camper wanting to change the rules so he can be a bigger bully in his big shiny ship... But tell me, if the rules get changed so that you can't redock, would you accept that you also cannot fly away if some BS's turn up to kick your arse?
|
Sleazy Cabbie
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 11:31:00 -
[47]
Waaaah the rules dont suit me, change the game
stfu
|
Hellspawn666
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 11:50:00 -
[48]
signed, push people further away from the station when they undock, there should always be a usable countermeasure to everything in this game, a bumpageddon isnt one although i have used the tactic myself it doesnt work all that great most of the time.
|
Heptameron
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 12:14:00 -
[49]
While I agree that there should no way be completely blind undocks. That would just be over the top nuts.... i know where Mart is coming from. You get the p*** takers who just dock/undock/dock/undock, a most annoying habit! Don't go automatically casting the station camping gankafleets wand either. This happens with legit targets as well.
Maybe each time you undock the time to redock increases based on a timer? ie if u dock within 30 seconds of undocking the next time you undock the timer is increased to 45 seconds and so on.
And before the loudmouths amongst you start spitting fire, it's a practical idea to solve both sides of the argument so dont go callin me all those nasty nasty names *sniff*...
momma....MOMMA!!.... nasty people wanna call me names!!
----------------------------------------------
Director Octavian Vanguard
We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by.
|
Leilani Solaris
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 12:39:00 -
[50]
if u wanna know whats outside, check local... not so hard to do, is it?
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.ig.eve-fix.com/kb/pilot_detail.php?plt_id=2714
|
Trooper B99
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 14:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Heptameron
You get the p*** takers who just dock/undock/dock/undock, a most annoying habit! Don't go automatically casting the station camping gankafleets wand either. This happens with legit targets as well.
Maybe each time you undock the time to redock increases based on a timer? ie if u dock within 30 seconds of undocking the next time you undock the timer is increased to 45 seconds and so on.
Yeah, I think it's the undock, dock, undock, dock, undock, dock ad infinitum crew that can be the most . . . irritating. One way to deal with it would be lag them out so that they don't load before the timer is up, and thats not paticularly nice either.
*sighs*
As you say Hepta, An escalating dock timer might be interesting. You can undock to see whats there no problem say once every 30 mins, but do it again within the 30 min timer and with a +15 second redock penalty you might not have enough time to redock.
Not going to happen of course.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
|
|
Oveur
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 14:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Winterblink
Soooo...
Undocking, being greeted by a ganksquad, and docking again because I don't want to lose my ship in "combat" is an exploit?
I mean if it's 1v1 sure, it's a bit of a cheeseball thing to do unless you're going to fit yourself up so the guy gets more of a challenge. But if the odds are clearly stacked against me then how is it stupid if I don't want to just lose my ship?
Just playing devil's advocate here.. :)
What he said.
_____________________________
"There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?" |
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 14:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Leilani Solaris
if u wanna know whats outside, check local... not so hard to do, is it?
Yes. In fact, impossible, because local doesn't tell you what's outside, it only tells you which pilots are currently in your system.
You could be a completely clueless new player, but i don't think so. I think you know damn well that it doesn't work and just wanted to stir the pot.
_______
I tried strip mining, but I lost and it's cold flying around in space naked. |
Ricdic
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 15:14:00 -
[54]
CCP should change it similar to the way gates work maybe. Upon undock, a ship is flung about 12km from the station cloaked. After set timer etc the cloak is removed , and user is vulnerable again. This stops cheap smartbomb tactics that are being used on a player, while he is still loading on his screen.
Flinging 12km from the station might seem a little unrealistic, but i just thought that way, the undocker gets to see what is there, and have a minute or so to decide on what to do, plus doesnt get killed before his screen loads.
On other hand, the station attacker hears the sound of an undocker, and has to get himself ready to launch at the member. If the member decided to try and dock again, he has a 12km trip to survive through. This will also make the attackers realise they might need support ships to scramble the players before they warp off.
Just a stupid idea from a carebear miner. Sorry if it sux, but thought i would try and help 
------------------------------------------
Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting
Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB)
http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html |
Duke Danger
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:16:00 -
[55]
How else can you find who's outside if you don't stick your head out and look around? I must be missing something.....
|
Winterblink
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Duke Danger
How else can you find who's outside if you don't stick your head out and look around? I must be missing something.....
Local channel?
Sure, it doesn't flag people who are outside the station. But taking a minute to view the info on the people in the system will give you a reasonable idea of whether you should take the chance.
|
Bobby Wilson
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Trooper B99
Originally by: Heptameron
You get the p*** takers who just dock/undock/dock/undock, a most annoying habit! Don't go automatically casting the station camping gankafleets wand either. This happens with legit targets as well.
Maybe each time you undock the time to redock increases based on a timer? ie if u dock within 30 seconds of undocking the next time you undock the timer is increased to 45 seconds and so on.
Yeah, I think it's the undock, dock, undock, dock, undock, dock ad infinitum crew that can be the most . . . irritating. One way to deal with it would be lag them out so that they don't load before the timer is up, and thats not paticularly nice either.
*sighs*
As you say Hepta, An escalating dock timer might be interesting. You can undock to see whats there no problem say once every 30 mins, but do it again within the 30 min timer and with a +15 second redock penalty you might not have enough time to redock.
Not going to happen of course.
Well it should. It's the constant undocking and redocking that is crap. I begrudge no one the chance to check the environment around that station, but some people actually use undocking and redocking to distract, annoy or to get people so apathetic that they don't even try to lock the guy, who then has time to warp away.
Like 20 or 30 times I'm talking here. First time in say five minutes you undock and redock, fair enough. After that you're screwing around.
For all the "well don't camp stations then" people, bear in mind it's not just you righteous carebears who hide in stations. A lot of the scary people you run from also hide in stations and those camping a station may in fact be white hats there to make your (and their) world a safer place.
BW
Originally by: Mistress D'Malice
POS outputs where fine...its the fuel that needed the help.
Originally by: Nyxus
A Vagabond or Deimos is like a rabid wolverine and the web is your arm holding it away f |
Bobby Wilson
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ricdic
CCP should change it similar to the way gates work maybe. Upon undock, a ship is flung about 12km from the station cloaked. After set timer etc the cloak is removed , and user is vulnerable again. This stops cheap smartbomb tactics that are being used on a player, while he is still loading on his screen.
Flinging 12km from the station might seem a little unrealistic, but i just thought that way, the undocker gets to see what is there, and have a minute or so to decide on what to do, plus doesnt get killed before his screen loads.
On other hand, the station attacker hears the sound of an undocker, and has to get himself ready to launch at the member. If the member decided to try and dock again, he has a 12km trip to survive through. This will also make the attackers realise they might need support ships to scramble the players before they warp off.
Just a stupid idea from a carebear miner. Sorry if it sux, but thought i would try and help
Hey, even 5 KMs from the station would be okay. Then we'd at least have a SHOT at trying to tackle them. And for non-hostile situations, it would reduce "stuck on station" issues even more.
BW
Originally by: Mistress D'Malice
POS outputs where fine...its the fuel that needed the help.
Originally by: Nyxus
A Vagabond or Deimos is like a rabid wolverine and the web is your arm holding it away f |
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:51:00 -
[59]
When you leave the station there's a 30 second undocking (kind of the same type of timer for changing ships, too) timer running. There's also a one minute, or possibly thirty, second timer running on top of that in which you are invulnerable. The latter timer has been implemented to save people from loosing ships before their game loads and before they can do anything, and it ends as soon as you try to do something.
Now, all of this is fine to me. Annoying but fine. I like fair games.
It's a fine line, but currently combat is built so that you'll need superior numbers in order to hold and kill, simply too easy to run away and hide. And let's face it, ganking isn't very fun for anyone.
--
Don't post nerf-threds, especially not as a joke. It's not funny, and you come across as a complete idiot. |
Neslo
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:54:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Neslo on 18/08/2005 16:57:33
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Winterblink
Soooo...
Undocking, being greeted by a ganksquad, and docking again because I don't want to lose my ship in "combat" is an exploit?
I mean if it's 1v1 sure, it's a bit of a cheeseball thing to do unless you're going to fit yourself up so the guy gets more of a challenge. But if the odds are clearly stacked against me then how is it stupid if I don't want to just lose my ship?
Just playing devil's advocate here.. :)
What he said.
Ok what he said. Why not create a new station button that scans for ship types (not players associated with ships, but just ship types like the scanner) in the grid around the station and list them. This way he will know if he wants to undock. Perhaps call it "Station Scan" and put it next to the corp hangar tab.
Also why not have the client show up on the server till the client loads the screen on his side (this will mean there will be a 2-3 ms delay where the client will get to see what's outside the station before being attacked if he choses to undock. Leave the 30 second undock/redock timer in effect to cut down on the number of session changes (ie lag) for the system. That way if there is no pilots there is nothing to fear. If there are pilots then the pilot should have checked with the station scanner before undocking and it's his own darn fault if he gets "ganked."
If you are looking for an isk sink, perhaps make the "station scan" cost 5,000 isk to run that way you can choose the reward of knowing what is outside or risk your ship by undocking waiting the 30 seconds and keep your 5,000 isk.
Just my 2 cents and suggestion to the topic.
Nes
Right now... you have tanked Scorps undocking... putting up the armor tank (gathering intel with no risk to their ship) because they can associate ship types with names of players with absolutely no risk to themselves. I mean if you want to gather intel on what is outside of the station buy a freaking covert ops ship right? and cloak and warp around.
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
|
Gordon Fantasticpants
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:57:00 -
[61]
Here are the thoughts on this from a noob miner. A scanner should definately be added so one can see what is going on outside before undocking. Have a station scanner that can be viewed by anyone docked. Then the redock feature/bug/whatever could be dealt with.
As far as station camping goes, sieges/blockades have occured all throughout history. There is no reason to beleive they would not occur in space as well. As long as there is a way to scan what is outside, I say they add some realism to the game.
|
Hephaesteus
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 17:00:00 -
[62]
This thread just goes to prove some people will whine about anything.
We can dock after undocking, get over it. |
Harry MacDougal
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 17:22:00 -
[63]
To the people who are suggesting using local:
Stations and PVP exist in more places than 0.0. Any solution to the problem has to be viable in a place like Rens, or Jita, where there are often several hundred people in system. In that case, checking local isn't going to work, there are simmply too many. However, the ship scanner idea (and I think that you need to have a player with the ship type) is a good one. It will show what's out there and allow the user to make their decision based on that
The scanner only has to reach out as far as your current ship on does. That will show everybody in the vicinity that is a threat without making everything lag.
--------------
Its just a matter of semantics. You call it a drinking problem, and I call it a reality exit strategy... |
Shamrock
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 17:46:00 -
[64]
I wish that people would undock at 12-15km but it just doesn't line up with the physics of spawning at a jumpgate. There really is no comparison between undocking a station and jumping into a system.
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2005.08.18 17:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Shamrock
I wish that people would undock at 12-15km but it just doesn't line up with the physics of spawning at a jumpgate. There really is no comparison between undocking a station and jumping into a system.
I seem to recall that, way back in the dim and distant past (ie. a couple of years ago ) ... when you undocked, you were spat out of the station at a hefty rate of knots .. something like a reverse tractor beam. I'd have no problem with a system like this launching you 12-15km from the station as you undocked - in fact, I'd love it, no more practising the Sticky Station Shuffle.
But before we get it, they've got to give us some way of looking at what ships are within 150km or so of the station. It's beyond ludicrous that we can't just look out of a window and see what's out there waiting for us.
Overview to be active while in station? Seems to make sense to me, and you could then have your ships undocking at 12km to eliminate undock/dock/hahaha taunters.
_______
I tried strip mining, but I lost and it's cold flying around in space naked. |
NAFnist
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 02:08:00 -
[66]
Everyone that has experienced this must know something is not right. The fact that someone dont want to be ganked when undocking is simply not a good answer. There needs to be some sort of middleground.
The way things are now, there's no risk involved when undocking. I remember the time before I knew this could be done, my heart was acctually pumping if I undocked in hostile waters.
Like some said. This promotes cheap tactics and focuses camping on gates. I want more options!!
|
Noriath
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 02:11:00 -
[67]
Why the heck shouldn't you be able to see what's outside of a station before you undock anyways. That just doesn't make any goddamn sense.
|
NAFnist
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 02:16:00 -
[68]
Edited by: NAFnist on 24/08/2005 02:16:13
Originally by: Noriath
Why the heck shouldn't you be able to see what's outside of a station before you undock anyways. That just doesn't make any goddamn sense.
I agree. I'd like to see a option like the scanner, not overview. You'd be able to see what ships are outside, but not see a flashing red to alarm you.
Because looking out the window, shouldnt make you able to see the difference between a friendly crow and a hostile crow. They all look the same
|
Jaabaa Prime
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 02:25:00 -
[69]
I think the issue here is not really the undock/dock tactic but the invulnerability timer.
A player can fully load up the scene in space, look around and start heading back to the station before the ship can even be targeted.
The best soloution IMHO would be for the client to inform the server when it has loaded the scene and then it becomes a valid target.
Maybe with something like adding a 3 second delay if becoming an instant target seems to harsh.
--
Intergalactic Teeth Pullers
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein |
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 02:57:00 -
[70]
just ignore the above alt.
|
Jaabaa Prime
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:07:00 -
[71]
Originally by: sonofollo
just ignore the above alt.
Alt 
--
Intergalactic Teeth Pullers
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein |
Dao 2
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:12:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 24/08/2005 03:14:00
Edited by: Dao 2 on 24/08/2005 03:12:42
poke out one of ur handy camera drones! ;p
yeah thatd be cool and make sense to me :| actually itd be cool if i could remote control one of my camera drones and fly around with it ;p
or 'hack' or jam the enemies camera drones so hes blind!
t2 glasses :o
I WANT VISION IMPLANTS!
laser eye surgery :o
on drones o_0_o
woah
drones have human eyes now :|?
runslfh
edit: missed the of in the first sentence!
edit: OMG WTF HE H4XZORED MY DRONES WTF! BANSPLOIT!
maybe itd be cool if u could jam/'hack' regular drones too :|
hehe ;p go round stealing ppls t2 heavies ;pppppppp
|
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:14:00 -
[73]
no the alt that started the whole thread
|
Magnum III
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:24:00 -
[74]
This is why we should be able to walk around in the stations.
If someone is hiding in the station just go in and hack and sneak your way past security systems to get the kill or be killed in the attempt.
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:31:00 -
[75]
I wouldn't mind not being able to redock as long as complete losers couldn't sit right *in* the undocking port with a close range ship and have me half dead by the time my screen loads. When they do that you can't even fly off because of bumping.
Given I am on dialup and my screen doesn't load until the undock timer is almost out, I don't undock unless the system is clear or I have someone scouting the station for me (I refuse to use alts in combat).
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Dao 2
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:33:00 -
[76]
serious :|
oh wow u must sit in the station a lot....
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:37:00 -
[77]
Originally by: NAFnist
Everyone that has experienced this must know something is not right. The fact that someone dont want to be ganked when undocking is simply not a good answer. There needs to be some sort of middleground.
The way things are now, there's no risk involved when undocking. I remember the time before I knew this could be done, my heart was acctually pumping if I undocked in hostile waters.
Oh sod off. There is zero risk to sit in the undocking port (preventing people from warping out) with a close range ship, because we all know that if a decent enemy shows up *you* will dock. Its just as lame as the "pirates" that sit at the 0.0 gates into empire and jump as soon as anything scarier then a shuttle shows up.
Undocking is not at all like jumping and leaves you incredibly vulnerable and easy to kill. If people can't redock when in trouble they will use alts or just not undock when enemies are in system.
Russian roulette is not a fun game.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 03:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Dao 2
serious :|
oh wow u must sit in the station a lot....
No my enemies don't bother camping stations for hours. When I fight lamers I just play on my alt and stay logged in to waste their time.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
NAFnist
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 13:00:00 -
[79]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: NAFnist
Everyone that has experienced this must know something is not right. The fact that someone dont want to be ganked when undocking is simply not a good answer. There needs to be some sort of middleground.
The way things are now, there's no risk involved when undocking. I remember the time before I knew this could be done, my heart was acctually pumping if I undocked in hostile waters.
Oh sod off. There is zero risk to sit in the undocking port (preventing people from warping out) with a close range ship, because we all know that if a decent enemy shows up *you* will dock. Its just as lame as the "pirates" that sit at the 0.0 gates into empire and jump as soon as anything scarier then a shuttle shows up.
Undocking is not at all like jumping and leaves you incredibly vulnerable and easy to kill. If people can't redock when in trouble they will use alts or just not undock when enemies are in system.
Russian roulette is not a fun game.
One thing you're forgetting in your carebear ways, is the fact that is quite possible to trick a station camper to aggro an easy target, and then go kill him. Infact, usually a station camper is there to fight, so there's not much of an issue.
The issue is fighting against people who dont want to fight! Granted its not supposed to be easy. But the way it is now, its impossible.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 13:20:00 -
[80]
what the heck are you on about "windows"?
What the heck do you think alts are for?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Henry Holliday
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 14:02:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Henry Holliday on 24/08/2005 14:07:24
Edited by: Henry Holliday on 24/08/2005 14:07:09
Originally by: Scoundrelus
In my opinion camping is wrong. Im against it and I dont do it. Its basically keeping someone from playing a game that they PAY for. So any "feature" that discourages camping is in my goodbook.
Games that for the most part allow open ended game play are a huge plus in my book. One of the reasons I loved Shadowbane so much. If you don't like campers then you are welcome to find another game. Harsh? Sure it is but there are plenty of Carebear games out there and not enough that are as open as Eve, and even less that moreso.
That being said, I do agree there needs to be a way for people to check before undocking. With all this technology I think it would be quite easy for players to see whats on the outside. Hell I bet even the International Space Station has a friggin radar setup to see the incomming Shuttle or other resupply craft and I am quite certain its hundreds if not thousands of years behind the technology that would be needed to run a Eve station.
Let people see whats on the outside if the check. If they forget to check and get ganked, thats their fault for not checking. Leave the game play open!
|
mortran
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 14:14:00 -
[82]
Edited by: mortran on 24/08/2005 14:15:15
 Sure ... why not... lets give him his "I want to kill any one who undocks with me and my 10 mates" 45 second dock ban feature.
ONLY IF
everyone else gets a "LOOK OUT OF WINDOW" feature when in station.
stops me even having to undock to have a look... and im sure i have seen windows on most of the stations in the universe
seems ok to me
|
babyblue
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 14:20:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Henry Holliday
That being said, I do agree there needs to be a way for people to check before undocking. With all this technology I think it would be quite easy for players to see whats on the outside. Hell I bet even the International Space Station has a friggin radar setup to see the incomming Shuttle or other resupply craft and I am quite certain its hundreds if not thousands of years behind the technology that would be needed to run a Eve station.
Let people see whats on the outside if the check. If they forget to check and get ganked, thats their fault for not checking. Leave the game play open!
To you and everybody else - the request for "looking at the outside" is superfluous, given that we just need to undock and then re-dock if we don't like what we see. Honestly, I don't think undocking from station should be one of the main "zones of interaction", it should be one of the "zones of safety". Please don't camp stations.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |