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The difference between a carebear and an EVE industrialist

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Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 60	Posted - 2013.03.13 00:55:00 - [1] - Quote Two people - a carebear and an EVE industralist - are mining in Mackinaws in high security space. Suddenly a fleet of ten Catalysts appears, piloted by outlaws. Each Mackinaw is targetted by five of them, pointed before they can warp out, and reduced to scrap metal. CONCORD arrives on the scene and gives the Catalysts a red card, blowing all of them to smithereens. The Carebear Approach: The carebear returns from their AFK and he sees himself in the clone bay in the station in the system. He complains loudly in local chat about the unfair treatment, sits in his pod in the local station, file GM petitions accusing the Catalyst pilots of cheating and logs off and posts a forum rant about being harrassed. Sometimes he also does one of the following: - Begs in local - Threatens to get his nullsec main character to wardec the Catalyst pilots - Threatens real life consequences against the Catalyst pilots or makes derogatory comments about the players involved (not the characters but the players) - Gets into another Mackinaw and starts mining in the same place again - Complains 'That ship was everything I owned'. Three months later, he hasn't learned anything, and the net result of the Catalyst attack is that he lost a 250m Mack fit and a 300m pod. The EVE industrialist Firstly, our EVE industrialist follows the first rule of EVE - never undock in a ship you cannot afford to lose - and so the lost Mackinaw, whilst perhaps a painful loss, won't be more than a quarter of her assets. If she couldn't afford the loss, she'd have flown a tech 1 ship instead. She asks herself three questions. "What could I have done to avoid this trap?" "OK, I lost my ship, what's the most I can quickly salvage from this bad situation?". And finally "Are there long-term profit opportunities in this for me?" She addresses the second first - she warps to a nearby station, reships into a Myrmidon (the tankiest ship she has handy), fits Salvager 2 modules, and loots and salvages her destroyed ship, the Catalysts, and then salvages and finally loots the carebear's ship, invoking a yellow card from Crimewatch (but who will attack a suspect-flagged Myrmidon in an asteroid belt, looks like an obvious trap there). She then returns to station with a third of her losses recovered. The EVE industrialist then asks around for help from other players as to how she could have avoided the Catalyst trap as she hasn't got the PVP experience to answer this herself. She is told 'check D-scan' and 'tank your Mack better' by more experienced players in local. So she puts training Cruiser Construction 5 on hold to train how to fit a Damage Control II module and, not understanding how D-scan would be useful, looks up a D-scan tutorial on Youtube and decides 'in future, 4 or more Catalysts within 5AU means I stop mining and insta-warp out'. Of course this lowers her mining yield somewhat as she is spooked by Catalysts that had other targets, but to save a 200m+ ship she thinks losing a small amount of yield is worth it. Finally, she looks at the third question. Judging by the other comments in local chat, he and the carebear were not the only people to lose Mackinaws and Hulks to Catalyst gangs in this system recently - there seems to be an epidemic of it. She considers the potential to profit from this increased demand for Mackinaws, Hulks, Catalysts, Small Neutron Blaster I's, Magnetic Stabilizer I's, Small Hybrid Burst Aerators, Warp Scrambler I's, Warp Disruptor I's and looks into what is involved in producing those. After some quick research, she decides that making mining barges requires too much capital and so she decides to invest 60m ISK and a fortnight of her POS science slots to researching ten Catalyst BPOs. WIthin weeks she is selling 150 Catalysts a day in the system, with a cool 200k markup on each one, while her own mining operations (which increasingly she is less reliant upon as a source of income with all the Catalyst production) take place four jumps away in a quieter system where local seldom has more than eight people in it. When the Catalyst sales start dropping off as the anti-mining gangs move to other systems, she then cashes out, selling her Catalyst BPOs for a tidy profit to other industrialists desparate to make ISK out of the miner extermination campaign. She then puts all of this ISK together and invests in what she could not afford before - a 2500m ISK well researched Retriever BPO - and offers a courier contract at a high price (with a 3b collateral) to take this BPO to the new site of the miner extermination campaign. Within three months of the Catalyst gang attack, she's turned a painful loss into a massive business and is on the way to becoming spacerich. '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315
Im a Corpse Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.03.13 00:59:00 - [2] - Quote I notice how you use 'he' for the carebear, and 'she' for the mighty industrialist. This implies that the vast majority of miners are carebears, and the industrialist is one of the elite few, as there are almost no real females in Eve. I like your subtly insulting logic. Kudos Sir!
Mr. Orange Band of Freelancers 58	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:10:00 - [3] - Quote Can someone summarize the OP into a 140 char tweet?
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 1143	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:12:00 - [4] - Quote Mr. Orange wrote: Can someone summarize the OP into a 140 char tweet? A carebear uses a feather, an industrialist uses the whole chicken. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 62	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:13:00 - [5] - Quote Mr. Orange wrote: Can someone summarize the OP into a 140 char tweet? Haven't you ever read a book? OK the short version. Carebear cries. EVE industrialist learns from their mistakes, sees opportunities and rebounds stronger than ever. (ugh, hit quote post not edit) '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315
Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 62	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:13:00 - [6] - Quote double post '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315
Friggz Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 9	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:19:00 - [7] - Quote To me a much shorter explanation would be this: A carebear doesn't like pvp and also feels they should be completely immune to it if they so choose and would perfer to only engage in activites with no risk. An industrialist doesn't like pvp but recognizes it is a part of EvE. They weigh the pros and cons and take risks they believe will ultimately benefit them in the long run. Re-elect Trebor Daehdoow for a stronger CSM 8.
Haulie Berry 255	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:25:00 - [8] - Quote The industrialist doesn't mine. Mining is peasant work.
Industrialist Ajidica Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:26:00 - [9] - Quote As an Industrialist I don't undock. Ever.
Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 64	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:34:00 - [10] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: The industrialist doesn't mine. Mining is peasant work. That is how I operate too. Although I PVP and do t2 production on the same character. I do however occasionally board a mining barge. It's to blend in while passive targetting and scanning possible New Order targets, and providing a warpin point (and ensuring Crimewatch redcards anyone that fires an ECM burst at the Catalyst heroes, leading to a satisfying CONCORDOOKEN) '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315

Theangryhobo GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 162	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:36:00 - [11] - Quote Industrialist Ajidica wrote: As an Industrialist I don't undock. Ever. Marketing Online .
Arduemont Rotten Legion Ops 1296	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:40:00 - [12] - Quote Someone who really knew what they were doing would have defensive rigs, a damage control, an invuln and a small shield booster running permanently and would have laughed at the suicide gankers after they failed. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice."
Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 64	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:43:00 - [13] - Quote Arduemont wrote: Someone who really knew what they were doing would have defensive rigs, a damage control, an invuln and a small shield booster running permanently and would have laughed at the suicide gankers after they failed. That much isn't needed (and can be overcome by throwing more Catalysts at the issue anyway). We've popped Orcas in the New Order and they have more EHP than most tanked Skiffs. Staying aligned to a celestial and using D-Scan is a much better defense if you insist on mining. Plus it is a skill that will serve you well once you grow out of mining. '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2968	Posted - 2013.03.13 01:54:00 - [14] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Staying aligned to a celestial and using D-Scan is a much better defense if you insist on mining. Plus it is a skill that will serve you well once you grow out of mining. An in-corp (or in-duel) and in-fleet buddy with multiple webs (this can be another exhumer, incidentally) makes staying aligned (I'd suggest to a bm, not a celestial) almost painless, and makes it substantially more effective. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Agent Trask New Order Logistics CODE. 108	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:19:00 - [15] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: An in-corp (or in-duel) and in-fleet buddy with multiple webs (this can be another exhumer, incidentally) makes staying aligned (I'd suggest to a bm, not a celestial) almost painless, and makes it substantially more effective. In-corp alts that sit in adjacent systems, and sound the dock-up-now alarm when a bunch of -10 pilots hit local are far more effective. But doing this requires people who are willing to remain at the keyboard and pay attention. Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code. www.minerbumping.com
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2971	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:25:00 - [16] - Quote Agent Trask wrote: RubyPorto wrote: An in-corp (or in-duel) and in-fleet buddy with multiple webs (this can be another exhumer, incidentally) makes staying aligned (I'd suggest to a bm, not a celestial) almost painless, and makes it substantially more effective. In-corp alts that sit in adjacent systems, and sound the dock-up-now alarm when a bunch of -10 pilots hit local are far more effective. But doing this requires people who are willing to remain at the keyboard and pay attention. Also requires alts who aren't GASP mining. So, for a group who, as a whole isn't willing to drop 1 MLU to protect a 200m ISK investment to have non-mining alts... Anyway (since we seem to be playing the funny anecdote game), as an industrialist, I recently bought a Freighter because I was tired of taking multiple trips from my station to my POS in the Itty V... so there's that. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 71	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:31:00 - [17] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Agent Trask wrote: RubyPorto wrote: An in-corp (or in-duel) and in-fleet buddy with multiple webs (this can be another exhumer, incidentally) makes staying aligned (I'd suggest to a bm, not a celestial) almost painless, and makes it substantially more effective. In-corp alts that sit in adjacent systems, and sound the dock-up-now alarm when a bunch of -10 pilots hit local are far more effective. But doing this requires people who are willing to remain at the keyboard and pay attention. Also requires alts who aren't GASP mining. So, for a group who, as a whole isn't willing to drop 1 MLU to protect a 200m ISK investment to have non-mining alts... We shall continue depriving them of those lovely, lovely 200m ISK ship hulls until they learn. Because as we all know, making tech 2 cargo rigs for the carebears to fit to those hulls requires materials that can be hard to source any other way. '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2971	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:33:00 - [18] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: We shall continue depriving them of those lovely, lovely 200m ISK ship hulls until they learn. Because as we all know, making tech 2 cargo rigs for the carebears to fit to those hulls requires materials that can be hard to source any other way. Nants ingonyama bagithi Baba This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 71	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:33:00 - [19] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Anyway (since we seem to be playing the funny anecdote game), as an industrialist, I recently bought a Freighter because I was tired of taking multiple trips from my station to my POS in the Itty V... so there's that. I still cannot fly any hauler larger than an Itty 3. Why bother when I can outsource my hauling tasks to the useful idiots that take courier contracts for a pittance? Besides, with a fairly high bounty on my head I'm not a huge fan of flying ships that are almost untankable. '... you cannot reason with the mining bots, you cannot negotiate with them, you can only bring them judgement in the form of Navy Antimatter, turn their Mackinaws to salvage and dust, smartbomb their pods, and burn their Mining Link implants with sweet incense...'- The Gospel according to St James 315
Namdor Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:51:00 - [20] - Quote Carebears are unduly impressed by their ability to blow up mining vessels? Don't get me wrong, I love blowing up miners, but as accomplishments go, it's right up there with fastening one's own (velcro) shoes.

Setaceous Nexus Prima 10	Posted - 2013.03.13 04:55:00 - [21] - Quote I've never seen another player that wasn't a miner while mining. Are there no Oceanic time based gankers?
Jensaro Koraka Serenity Prime Kraken. 49	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:01:00 - [22] - Quote The difference according to my definition is as follows. Carebears: Seek a solution from CCP instead of solving it themselves, as is the way of the sandbox. Don't want to work together and try to pretend MMOs are single player games. Hate risk, but still expect a reward. Never want the actions of other people to have any effect on them. Again, playing it like it's single player. Pretend to be bots and play AFK 90% of the time. Die to easily preventable situations and then cry about it. Industrialists: Seek player-based solutions to problems. Have well organized corps. Take risks and can handle when those risks don't work out. Earn their rewards. Enjoy the excitement and unpredictability of other people being able to interact with them, even though it's sometimes not in a nice way. Actually play the game and pay attention. Saw the ganker coming and lived. Didn't have anything to complain about. As for me... "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 533	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:04:00 - [23] - Quote But the gankers are already producing everything they need. They are also faster than you when it comes to salvaging/looting the graveyard. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. snipped Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon.
Jensaro Koraka Serenity Prime Kraken. 49	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:04:00 - [24] - Quote Im a Corpse wrote: I notice how you use 'he' for the carebear, and 'she' for the mighty industrialist. This implies that the vast majority of miners are carebears, and the industrialist is one of the elite few, as there are almost no real females in Eve. I like your subtly insulting logic. Kudos Sir! I like how you're obviously a real life female, because you're reading between the lines to find hidden meanings that don't exist and then screeching at the poster like they actually said that. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken
Ignitious Hellfury Minmatar Republic Military Skool 3	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:19:00 - [25] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: A bunch of stuff that's wrong. Actually, a carebear is someone who plays the game with no interest in communicating with the rest of the players and just does things to see their wallet grow. An industrialist is a profit maximizing, market cornering business man who seeks to defeat his adversaries by consuming their wallet instead of just blowing them up. They both can be ignorant or resilient.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3557	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:20:00 - [26] - Quote Jensaro Koraka wrote: Im a Corpse wrote: I notice how you use 'he' for the carebear, and 'she' for the mighty industrialist. This implies that the vast majority of miners are carebears, and the industrialist is one of the elite few, as there are almost no real females in Eve. I like your subtly insulting logic. Kudos Sir! I like how you're obviously a real life female, because you're reading between the lines to find hidden meanings that don't exist and then screeching at the poster like they actually said that. You know highsec is intended to be a glorious paradise. I know you know this because of what you said. I am a nullsec zealot.
Jensaro Koraka Serenity Prime Kraken. 52	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:23:00 - [27] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Jensaro Koraka wrote: Im a Corpse wrote: I notice how you use 'he' for the carebear, and 'she' for the mighty industrialist. This implies that the vast majority of miners are carebears, and the industrialist is one of the elite few, as there are almost no real females in Eve. I like your subtly insulting logic. Kudos Sir! I like how you're obviously a real life female, because you're reading between the lines to find hidden meanings that don't exist and then screeching at the poster like they actually said that. You know highsec is intended to be a glorious paradise. I know you know this because of what you said. What I said where? "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken
NightCrawler 85 Phoibe Enterprises Project Wildfire 307	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:58:00 - [28] - Quote Carebear checking in! I dont even really understand why this is a discussion... Everyone (should) knows that there are really no "set" terms on a player, weather its carebear, pirate, empire hugger, 0.0 dweller or merc. The more people you ask what the different term "means" the more different answers you will get. As an example. Quite recently my corp got accused of being "naughty pirates". Why? Because we did not approve of someone coming into the WH we occupy and doing the sites. In my own opinion thats not piracy, thats defending your terretory and resourses. But for the person who got blown up, we are pirates. And believe me this is not the first time i have heard this one So why do i call my self a carebear? Because i dont enjoy the idea of destroying someone elses ship/pixels. This does not mean that no carebears likes to PVP, and it does not mean that there is no truth to the...ideas people have about what makes someone a carebear. But i would like to think that people would accept that just because one person they met acted like this, it does not mean that everyone else that has the same "title" thinks or feels the same way. Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread
Lady Areola Fappington New Order Logistics CODE. 69	Posted - 2013.03.13 06:20:00 - [29] - Quote NightCrawler 85 wrote: Carebear checking in! I dont even really understand why this is a discussion... Everyone (should) knows that there are really no "set" terms on a player, weather its carebear, pirate, empire hugger, 0.0 dweller or merc. The more people you ask what the different term "means" the more different answers you will get. As an example. Quite recently my corp got accused of being "naughty pirates". Why? Because we did not approve of someone coming into the WH we occupy and doing the sites. In my own opinion thats not piracy, thats defending your terretory and resourses. But for the person who got blown up, we are pirates. And believe me this is not the first time i have heard this one So why do i call my self a carebear? Because i dont enjoy the idea of destroying someone elses ship/pixels. This does not mean that no carebears likes to PVP, and it does not mean that there is no truth to the...ideas people have about what makes someone a carebear. But i would like to think that people would accept that just because one person they met acted like this, it does not mean that everyone else that has the same "title" thinks or feels the same way. I personally would define you as an industrialist. There's nothing wrong with the playstyle, we need the industrial arm of EVE to keep us in ships and pewpewing. You play EVE, defend your territory, accept shiploss, etc. You don't whine to CCP for changes, you adapt and overcome. It's an honorable way to play, and I wish you many space-riches. Now, a carebear, in my book, plays EVE like a single player game, and cries when someone forces some multiplayer action on them.They want the devs to adapt the game around them, rather than vice versa. Take notes, friends. Be an awesome industrialist like NightCrawler 85. Don't be an annoying carebear. 315 4 CSM8!
Yourmoney Mywallet Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation 8	Posted - 2013.03.13 06:21:00 - [30] - Quote Minerals grow on the Market.



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