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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:09:00 -
[1]
This thread is guided by one rule: You flame, troll or smacktalk, you meet our dreaded blacklist  . I am smiling but I am not joking
We are an industrial corps focused on manufacturing and selling ships. We have a webshop that has rules. Rules that when broken forfeits the right to use our services.
Some of the rules don't regard just the offender but his corporation too.
Now I come here to ask for your input. Should we limit (at least for now) the rules to just the offender until we are confident that everybody that wants to use our shop is familiar with the rules? Should the recently blacklisted corporations be allowed back and only the persons to remain blacklisted?
Your input is much appreciated.
PS. Rules of engagement remain, attacking a Lacuna Viators non-combat ship in Empire = the whole corporation gets blacklisted.
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NaNNeR HaMMeR
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:14:00 -
[2]
post the link so i can buy buy buy
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:15:00 -
[3]
I would say blacklist that person alone, or blacklist the corp and evemail the CEO to have this person ***** slapped around internally.
Id hate to see my corp blacklisted because one of our members was stupid enough to ignore the rules. 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Xanta
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:19:00 -
[4]
Linkage think thats the right one 
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Sforza
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:27:00 -
[5]
Well, you've created a new paradigm for selling T2 ships, I think its up to you how you sell them and who you sell them to. After all, no one is forced to buy from you.
However, the banning of the individual and a stiff note to CEO would be a good medium.
Sforza
Director - FU2
Council Member - Ushra'Khan
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: j0sephine on 22/08/2005 17:28:21
"Now I come here to ask for your input. Should we limit (at least for now) the rules to just the offender until we are confident that everybody that wants to use our shop is familiar with the rules? Should the recently blacklisted corporations be allowed back and only the persons to remain blacklisted?"
Perhaps it'd be good to blacklist individuals first, and corporations only after you have a few people from the same corporation gaining the blacklisted status..?
Btw no idea if it's possible, but it'd probably be good if the ships that can get you blacklisted when you order certain amount of them, had it mentioned on their pages.. or if there was some sort of check and warning when finalizing the order (unless it already happens, disregard it then ^^;;
(very nice prices on the ships, btw ^^
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Saladin
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:36:00 -
[7]
I think the whole notion of 'rules' and setting up a webshop is simply to garner more attention. Any normal person with that many bpo's would simply trot away and sell things on the market at the price of their choosing. Instead a web utility has been created, coupled with prices that get the most ardent critics salivating, and then a set of locks and rules to elevate your corporation's pride and hold prospective buyers hostage to the slightest infraction.
Anyways, if you were looking for an honest response, there's mine. Blacklist me away!
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:40:00 -
[8]
Cant u just program the webpage to sell only 2 units of per ceptor to the person a day?.
so u only blacklist people who have attacked u Khatred or ur corp members not innocent people who just loose their ceptors alot :p.
-Dan
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:53:00 -
[9]
Hehe, not going to blacklist anyone based on a well formulated opinion. But I won't get into what motivates us now, since this is not the topic in question atm.
The implementation of order limit was discussed but was somewhat difficult because of the 3 levels (1 hac, 2 crows,enyos,etc., 4 ships max) and we choosed to go with the "Rules" formula for several reasons but one main one: People cried and complained and complained again how Tech 2 BPO owners are nothing but greedy selfish bastards. What are we saying? Ok, here are the decent prices (not dirt cheap or cheap, just decent), would you follow a simple (but harsh) set of rules to buy them?
And to come to and end: We are not after recognition or insta win buttons or anything like this. Only one thing: Respect. No thank you, no appreciations, no *** kissing, just respect. You respect players for being better PvPers. Respect us for being better industrialists 
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:53:00 -
[10]
Already blacklisted o/
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Katya Ishenka
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:07:00 -
[11]
I would say BL on that individual.
I almost got black listed because I ordered the wrong amount of ships because i didnt notice which ships were in teh list.
Its up to you however, your shop and all that.
However I would personally give people the benefit of the doubt for silly mistakes at first.
Maybe add some coding to your site on the order page to show what can and cant be orderd.
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General Killah
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:12:00 -
[12]
In my opinion it's a little harsh. Even last night I was cringing cause even though I had read the rules, I wasn't sure if I'd ordered too many of something. I think if someone orders over the limit don't fufill the order but don't immediately blacklist them, it could jsut be human error.
Maybe if it becomes a problem and they do it 2 or 3 times.
---------------------------------
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:18:00 -
[13]
temp ban on first offense, perm ban on second, or third? i do feel that banning an entire corp is too harsh. so maybe:
offenses
1:temp ban of person(1 week), mail to ceo
2:temp ban of person(1 month), temp ban to corp(1 week)
3:perm ban of person(forever), temp ban of corp(1 month)
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:49:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 22/08/2005 17:28:21
"Now I come here to ask for your input. Should we limit (at least for now) the rules to just the offender until we are confident that everybody that wants to use our shop is familiar with the rules? Should the recently blacklisted corporations be allowed back and only the persons to remain blacklisted?"
Perhaps it'd be good to blacklist individuals first, and corporations only after you have a few people from the same corporation gaining the blacklisted status..?
Btw no idea if it's possible, but it'd probably be good if the ships that can get you blacklisted when you order certain amount of them, had it mentioned on their pages.. or if there was some sort of check and warning when finalizing the order (unless it already happens, disregard it then ^^;;
(very nice prices on the ships, btw ^^
What she said TBH
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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Romulus Maximus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 19:00:00 -
[15]
TBH, its ur shop so its ur rules. But from what ive heard, u can be a bit strict 
A simple mistake over quantities shouldnt invoke a instant permaban imo. If there caught using alts etc to try and scam u fair enough.
And a simple limit on how many u can actually order would help. So u cant make a mistake.
Also, u said u cant escrow to an alt, then why include a box to enter the char name u want it escrowd to ? I merely want it escrowd to a char near Pator, so i dont have go the 40 odd jumps from 0.0 just to claim it when it falls off the list 
If i was trying a scam, i wouldnt have asked u  Think about it, as u know which registered user has ordered stuff, and u have already implemented the box on ur site.
Nice effort so far though, gl.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 19:38:00 -
[16]
Your rules are unreasonable. Let me explain, hopefully I won't be "blacklisted".
Your rule of not allowing reselling harms trade. All your ships are only available in Pator, a good trader will know that supply and demand is different in places like Agil and Esa as compared to Pator. Telling people your ships are not for resale is one thing (and obviously you don't sell in enough quantity for it to be highly profitable anyway) but trying to enforce it is another.
Your rule of not using alts is also unreasonable. How do you enforce this? How do you know who is an alt and who is an agent runner in an NPC corp?
Third, a lot of your other rules are reasonable, but nitpicky and the punishment is too harsh. Banning someone for asking or saying the wrong thing is lame.
Lastly, no business ever thrived by making it difficult to be a customer.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:06:00 -
[17]
Good luck with this but I agree with Saladin and Alowishus.
One of the wonderful things about the markets is that they decrease transaction costs. What you're doing here is trying to circumvent the market and increase transaction costs (while bearing some of that cost yourselves). Many tried replacing free markets, but the results were discouraging and in the long run it all fell apart.
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0Virtu0
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:18:00 -
[18]
I agree with both Saladin and Alowishus's views on this matter.
----------------------------------
I play EvE and I don't even get a stupid signature. |
Coasterbrian
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:45:00 -
[19]
Personally, I think you are entitled to whatever rules you want. I do agree, however, that perhaps you should blacklist only the person and not their corp, unless there is a ridiculous number of people from the same corp breaking the rules. I know that I would not want to lose my ability to buy from you due to one of my corpmates being a tard.
Soft and Crunchy 4tw! \o/ |
nitr0s
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:46:00 -
[20]
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
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Metal Dude
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:12:00 -
[21]
Sorry, but if you are going to stop selling ships to whole alliances because someone smacked talked you in local or flamed you on the forums, there's not going to be a lot of people to sell ships to in my opinion.
Just because someone from my alliance likes to thrash talk in local, you are going to blacklist me? Well, you might as well blacklist all of [5], Stain, IMP, RA, IRON, FA and bunch of others right now, since we donÆt oppress our members and give them the freedom to be bad guys if they wish. That does not make us bad. ItÆs called freedom.
You should sell to all and don't discriminate at all. Business is business. If some individual does you wrong, then deal with him. To tell you the truth, he can make up an alt or have his friends buying from you and you would never know. WhatÆs the point? Get his money.
If anything, make up different price lists for friendly vs. hostile vs. blacklisted individuals. That would make more sense. Make money on hostiles and give deals to friends.
The truth will set you free
* Proud to be ATUK * |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: nitr0s
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
I disagree. Being based in the south I can pretty much promise I would never go to Pator to buy a ship, I don't care how much it costs. My time and dignity is worth a lot more than my isk. Plus it helps that I am rich as hell. To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
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nitr0s
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: nitr0s
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
I disagree. Being based in the south I can pretty much promise I would never go to Pator to buy a ship, I don't care how much it costs. My time and dignity is worth a lot more than my isk. Plus it helps that I am rich as hell. To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
Consider yourself a minority then
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Konietzko
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:34:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Konietzko on 22/08/2005 21:36:50
Originally by: nitr0s
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
Actually, the supply of diamonds is not limited and is completely controlled by DeBeers. Which is why you should buy manufacuted or Canadian diamonds.
<ontopic>
They are your BPOs and your ships. You're entitled to follow whatever business practicies you put in place. Because supply of HACs and Tech2 ships is so limited, you'll have customers regardless of how well you treat them.
---
Konietzko
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alowishus
Your rules are unreasonable. Let me explain, hopefully I won't be "blacklisted".
Your rule of not allowing reselling harms trade. All your ships are only available in Pator, a good trader will know that supply and demand is different in places like Agil and Esa as compared to Pator. Telling people your ships are not for resale is one thing (and obviously you don't sell in enough quantity for it to be highly profitable anyway) but trying to enforce it is another.
Hehe, 'trading' does not mean buying entire loads of ship cheap and putting em up for sale at a higher price at the exact same location. Because thats what will happen.
Just look at what happened when people tried to sell the cap recharger II's cheaply.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.22 22:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alowishus
To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
May I please be your supplier of tier 1 battleships, only 100mil each, i will deliver to your doorstep and kiss your feet and wash your clothes as well.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:01:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Store is closing 2005-08-22
All the current orders will be escrowed in the following hours.
Rest of the ships will be put on market in Pator.
Sorry for any trouble.
Kwisat Haderach
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:39:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/08/2005 23:40:37
You're wasting breath.
Why? alts.
And lmao.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sucram
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:48:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Xanta
Linkage think thats the right one
I dont know if it¦s just me... But i cant get on to that page... 
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Randay
Originally by: Alowishus
To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
May I please be your supplier of tier 1 battleships, only 100mil each, i will deliver to your doorstep and kiss your feet and wash your clothes as well.
Nope, I already get them delivered for 40 mil. You see, just because I claim I'd do something to save myself time doesn't mean I have to. Which further reinforces my point: that being difficult to do business with is bad for business no matter what.
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NSA DAKILLA
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Posted - 2005.08.23 00:11:00 -
[31]
i would go for one person on the blacklist and if the mistake is made again by another member of that corp then it can go the whole corp that would be pretty fair.
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Velios
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Posted - 2005.08.23 00:22:00 -
[32]
Why is this thread needed? You have the BPO's to make the ships, stick them on the market for whatever you like and they will sell. You dont need to make a big deal out of it really.
Discussing the rules of who should be able to buy from you is surely something you and your corp mates should agree upon... Why should it be neccessary (or interesting) for the wider EVE populace contemplate this?
M.Corp would never feel the need to hold an open forum about the specific nature of the goods we sell... Our place in the EVE universe is but a tiny speck on the fabric... and so is yours my friend.
This whole topic is little more than a self serving, ego inflating "look at me" excorsise that is crass to the point of nausia.
You offer GREAT products at GREAT prices, nothing more needs to be said. |
Shittake
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Posted - 2005.08.23 00:42:00 -
[33]
Blacklisting an entire corporation on the first offense becasue one of its members decided NOT to read the rules first seems a little harsh to me.
From everything I have heard, your web store seems like a wonderful service but I will not be able to use it now because what I just mentioned has happened to my corp.
I would ask that you review your rules for blacklisting. It doesn't seem fair that I will never be able to use your products/services because one of my corpmates did not read the rules first.
Thanks
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Evil Thug
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Posted - 2005.08.23 00:48:00 -
[34]
I read your rules @ site. And I remembered communism (i born, and grow up during USSR times) - you can go to the shop, but you can only buy 1kg of sausage, 0.5kg of cheese etc. And seller wont sell more to you, even you are very rich person. I dont like it.
Yesterday i registred at your site, and wanted to order 1 vagabond for my battle alt.
Quote:
Number in queue #19
"Wow, Cool" thought I, and canceled the order.
What point i`m trying to prove here ? You are trying to regulate market via artifical method. I think, that standart method - demand\offer, is much better. Personally I - would order 10 vagabonds @ 80 - 90m each. I dont like to search for ship, through multiple regions, even if i need it. I bought it, haul to Agil in freighter, and go in 0.0 to have some fun. Your point of view is different, than mine. Its OK.
Reading your rules, i felt, that you are talking with your customer, like talking with guilty child. Dude, i haven`t done anything wrong. And my guilt is only, that I just joined your site, to buy something. But, NO. You shall do that, that, that, you shouldn`t do that, that, that. I`m sorry, but i think that this is unacceptable.
Anyway. This is your items, and your right to sell it how you want. You asked for feedback, you got it.
Thanks for your time.
-----------------------------------------------
Ash to Ash
Dust to Dust |
Nervar
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Posted - 2005.08.23 02:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Khatred
This thread is guided by one rule: You flame, troll or smacktalk, you meet our dreaded blacklist . I am smiling but I am not joking
We are an industrial corps focused on manufacturing and selling ships. We have a webshop that has rules. Rules that when broken forfeits the right to use our services.
Some of the rules don't regard just the offender but his corporation too.
Now I come here to ask for your input. Should we limit (at least for now) the rules to just the offender until we are confident that everybody that wants to use our shop is familiar with the rules? Should the recently blacklisted corporations be allowed back and only the persons to remain blacklisted?
Your input is much appreciated.
PS. Rules of engagement remain, attacking a Lacuna Viators non-combat ship in Empire = the whole corporation gets blacklisted.
Hate to break it too you Khatred but your blacklist is rather pointless, seing as i personally have alts older than you. Most of the guys i know have alts inn ""respectable"" corps or secondary accounts.
Oh btw we have bought from you before while being blacklisted with alts or thru friends, your wallet may bee fath but its fat on bloodmoney 
But keep it up "bad advertising" is just as good as good advertising ^^
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
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Sam Trip
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Posted - 2005.08.23 02:47:00 -
[36]
Sell how you want is what i say! If people want to start getting all angered up about it then dont sell to them! They should have respected your rules and appreciated the courtesy that your extending by providing a service towards the EVE community by providing a stable outlet of tech 2 ships. I thought the site was very professional and uncomplicated i liked it and the prices especially! Was and still am very prepared to do business with you all.
If they're underselling someone else then so what? happens in real life. Works well for me, works well for the suppliers, just not the guy who got undersold. Its their problem now.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.08.23 02:56:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Store is closing2005-08-22
All the current orders will be escrowed in the following hours.
Rest of the ships will be put on market in Pator.
Sorry for any trouble.
Kwisat Haderach
I guess that's it then? No more store?
Originally by: Morela
"hey! I'm gonna go attack the north! Afk till tuesday!"
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.23 02:59:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Evil Thug
.
Yesterday i registred at your site, and wanted to order 1 vagabond for my battle alt.
Quote:
Number in queue #19
"Wow, Cool" thought I, and canceled the order.
Why ?
I think you misunderstood the queue idea. It is not the wait list it is just escrow queue and your order would`ve beed filled in 1-2 hrs.
But yes, it somehow reminds me CCCP ( with 3 C ) stuff but 3-4 months NAGA queues in not much better IMAO.
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Emeline Cabernet
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Posted - 2005.08.23 03:09:00 -
[39]
Please get more ships for those prices.
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Airric
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Posted - 2005.08.23 03:30:00 -
[40]
You know and I know, that there aren't enough TII BPO's in game to have a truely diverse market......so let's make rules up and ban people to make our egos feel good. Afterall we'll still sell out everyday, cause noone else has them.
As for the Blacklist:
Each first offense by an individual person should result in a permaban. only after 3 offenses by the same corp (3 different members) then permaban the corp, and then 3 corp permabans should result in a ban at the alliance level. this way you still get to boost your egos, but your product still gets to move freely through the market.
OOC but on topic: Do you think Wal-Mart would sell billions of dollars a year in merchandise if they told everyone to walk in a straight line, with their fingers over their mouths, and they could only buy 20 dollars worth of merchandise or their ability to shop there would be terminated permanently?
way off topic: the smaller the RL peen the bigger the epeen. So you must be teh next John Holmes of the Virtual World!
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Band Zior
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Posted - 2005.08.23 07:28:00 -
[41]
Seen that Simpsons episode when kid gets popular when they get a pool?
Remember what happened when a kid accross the street got a bigger pool?
I think there's a lesson there. Now go churn out those t2 ships for isk that mean jack, and don't pretend you're something you're not and never will be.
In soviet russia, alts blacklist YOU!!!!!!
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Richard Simmons in Space |
Seleene
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Posted - 2005.08.23 07:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Velios
Why is this thread needed? You have the BPO's to make the ships, stick them on the market for whatever you like and they will sell. You dont need to make a big deal out of it really.
Discussing the rules of who should be able to buy from you is surely something you and your corp mates should agree upon... Why should it be neccessary (or interesting) for the wider EVE populace contemplate this?
That's what I don't get. At those prices, you don't need to advertise. They'd be off the market in minutes.
As for black listing people who re-sell things, how can you tell if that happens? If I buy something from you and give it to a two day old alt to sell three regions away, how do you know that?
Also, what's to stop someone with multiple characters / accounts from buying out your entire stock and then turning around and selling it again?
Velios is right. While you do have some of the best prices around, I'm not sure how all the rules in the world are worth it.
-
We're outnumbered! That simplifies the problem! |
Taz Devlin
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Posted - 2005.08.23 10:48:00 -
[43]
I love it
These new rules of yours are a source of great enjoyment to me.
So far it has sparked 2 lively threads about trade, and a realization that action causes reaction, love it
You have stuff, I want stuff. Fine, I'll play along.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:30:00 -
[44]
1) Make a mistake that isn't trying to break the rules (i.e. no scamming, reselling, etc) = tempban for character.
2) Trying to scam/resell/etc or 2nd number 1 = permban for character
3) Many people in a corp doing 2) = permban for corp
--
Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Saladin
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:21:00 -
[45]
Further discussion is moot, they closed the shop and dumped the stock on the market in pator, with prices adjusted for brokerage fees and sales tax. I will be curious as to why they shut down so quickly though, they seemed so determined.
----
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Velios
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:55:00 -
[46]
face, bothered? face... bothered? |
Critta
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Posted - 2005.08.23 14:06:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Critta on 23/08/2005 14:12:03
Edited by: Critta on 23/08/2005 14:09:36
Originally by: Khatred
The implementation of order limit was discussed but was somewhat difficult because of the 3 levels (1 hac, 2 crows,enyos,etc., 4 ships max)
Just thought of an easy way for you to programatically work this one out:
Before you complete each sale, do a query of the database for the player ordering on the current date (including the current order)
Make temporary variable with a starting value of 0
For each tier2 ship (HAC or Occator) add 100
For each tier1 ship (AF or Transport ship) add 10
For each other ship add 1.
Then use string functions to check the first character (the hundreds one!), if this is > 1 then do not allow the sale.
Then do the same for the second character (tens), if > 2 then do not allow the sale.
Then add all 3 numbers together, if > 4 then do not allow the sale.
e.g
Player has bought a Vagabond already, wishes to buy a Crow, a Harpy and 2 Raptors.
The checking variable for this would be 122.
Tier 2 (HAC & Occator) rule, hundreds = 1, 1 !> 1 so this is ok.
Teir 1 (AF's and expensive Intys) rule, tens = 2 2 !> 2 so this is ok.
Total sales rule, hundreds + tens + units = 5, 5 > 4 so sale is not allowed.
Shouldn't be more than a dozen lines of code, and will save you loads of hassle.
In fact, I'm sure there's an even easier way of doing it... but I'll leave that up to you guys :D
Surely it's easier and less hassle to write a few lines of code to sort this out for you, rather than waste time checking manually who has ordered too much and blacklisting them?
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Montero
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Posted - 2005.08.23 14:09:00 -
[48]
you could maybe start with blacklisting the person for a few weeks and the corp for a week, ansd a repeat offense is an imediate blacklist for the whole corp. would give people a chance to sort their acts out and you not to lose custom.
needless to say, i'm at no risk because for some reason my PC won't load your webby.
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.08.23 14:13:00 -
[49]
It's sad to see the shop closing so early. The prices on a lot of t2 ships are severely inflated. I was hoping with the shop open some of the other t2 producers might lower their (imo) extremely high prices. I don't mind paying 100 million for a zealot but if I know the producer only made it for 30 million or so then I feel more than a bit ripped off.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.23 15:22:00 -
[50]
Ok, shop is closed and is not coming back.
Reason 1: It was too much trouble. I mean spending 2 days in a station setting escrows is not fun. And for what?
Reason 2: Some said we are after the spotlights. Well, we are not, so going back into the anonimity of the market, I couldn't care less.
Reason 3: The rules were not there because I love people to play by my rules but to try to give everybody a chance to grab ships at decent prices. No more rules, market for the win. Oh and btw, all deimoses, vagabonds, ishtars, enyos and harpies were bought by 2 persons only very soon after being on the market. Now you can go back to General Discussion and post how T2 is so unfair, that ships are so expensive yadda yadda yadda.
Reason 4: The locking of a thread that advertised a site that works in game. CCP wants ships only on the market? Fine.
We tried and failed. Now we are moving on.
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Taho Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.23 15:29:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Taho Ra on 23/08/2005 15:34:05
Really said to see the store closed, hope to see you guys back again soon... Need HAC
Regarding the "Blacklist" i think would be resanoble to have a max date of "suspention", for exemple 3 weeks or 4 weeks. But not a "live time suspention"... But have a big period of time not sure the duration for corps that "grief" you guys...
But EvE there plenty of corps that can't "stand each other" and are at war 24/7... So why point a finger to you guys when you choose to do the same...
But honestly it's betther for everyone to to have just a period of suspention.
Edit: Ups i'm slow...
One thing is for sure ppl dont like democracy..
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ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.08.23 15:48:00 -
[52]
What i want to know is why did a mod lock their thread for advertising a third party website? surely its the same as Xtech, BIG, Omega, NAGA's etc etc webbys?
Or am i missing something
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Sherkaner
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Posted - 2005.08.23 18:16:00 -
[53]
Please do not discuss moderator actions in the forums. If you have any questions, please mail [email protected].
And I would honestly like you to mail us in this case, because you apparently misunderstood the reason for the thread lock.
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Imran
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Posted - 2005.08.23 18:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Khatred
Ok, shop is closed and is not coming back.
Reason 1: It was too much trouble. I mean spending 2 days in a station setting escrows is not fun. And for what?
Reason 2: Some said we are after the spotlights. Well, we are not, so going back into the anonimity of the market, I couldn't care less.
Reason 3: The rules were not there because I love people to play by my rules but to try to give everybody a chance to grab ships at decent prices. No more rules, market for the win. Oh and btw, all deimoses, vagabonds, ishtars, enyos and harpies were bought by 2 persons only very soon after being on the market. Now you can go back to General Discussion and post how T2 is so unfair, that ships are so expensive yadda yadda yadda.
*snip*
We tried and failed. Now we are moving on.
discussion of forum moderation removed
Sucks to see your store go m8, but to try to get positive and constructive replies on these forums its pretty much pointless. Nonetheless really sad to see your store go -_- best of luck collecting the rest of the bpos comming out :].
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Saladin
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Posted - 2005.08.23 18:48:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Saladin on 23/08/2005 18:56:31
Edited by: Saladin on 23/08/2005 18:50:03
Edited by: Saladin on 23/08/2005 18:48:51
Spending all that time on escrow can be a major pain in the ass, I know. I picked up 10 Maledictions and an Eagle myself, but the other stuff Khatred mentioned went pretty damn quick. Its true those 2 people could be resellers, but they could be buying stuff for their alliance as well. I did not see any sell orders for vagabonds, diemos, or ishtar the next morning. I know the stuff I got was intended for personal use.
Chin up Khatred, this really is better. Resellers or not, people can setup their own buy orders. If you want agitate the wholesale buyers you can always move the merchandise to Dal or some equally desolate place and watch their region wide buy orders pick it up
On another note, I know what you meant by industrial respect. In other games when a craftsman creates an item, it bears the creators name and bears witness to his skill. In eve all items are standardized, there is no difference between an ishtar created by one guy and one created by you. Aside from a wallet entry no one can differentiate your product from others. A web shop can change that somewhat.
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.08.23 22:58:00 -
[56]
It's really sad to see the store closed. I and I'm sure others appreciate the fact that you were trying to do eve players a service. Giving everyone access to good ships at reasonable price. Thanks for trying.
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Rthor
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Posted - 2005.08.23 23:15:00 -
[57]
Store is closed? ****. Is it too late to be blacklisted then?
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.24 03:53:00 -
[58]
sad to see your store go, your ideology of making sure everyone gets a chance to buy ships at great prices was a great one. hopefully we will see some new features in some future patch that will allow you to do so. hope you guys try again some time.
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Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.08.24 06:11:00 -
[59]
Damnit, why all the *****ing? his bpos, his damn rules!
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DUFFMANX
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Posted - 2005.08.24 06:39:00 -
[60]
Dude dont close the shop down already cos of some morons that dont wanna follow the rules. There r plenty of players in eve that r willing to buy ur ships at ur prices and rules if u give it time.
As for time spent in the shop escrowing stuff, maybe share it amoungst urself and 2-3 others to lighten load and give urself ome space and play time.
Lastly as for the advertising im sure any1 sho would buy from u would be happy to spead the word cos once ur name out there no thread can stop u being known
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Airric
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Posted - 2005.08.24 06:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Randay
sad to see your store go, your ideology of making sure everyone gets a chance to buy ships at great prices was a great one. hopefully we will see some new features in some future patch that will allow you to do so. hope you guys try again some time.
/signed
I may have have gotten a little razzy, but I still liked the idea and the effort you put into "The Shop". Don't quit because of peeps who make comments like me. You have a great idea....errrr ideology going there and you could very well be what we need to revolutionize the Tech II industry!!!! Not to mention, show CCP that TII can be a viable option without completely killing the TI market!!!!
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juduzz
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Posted - 2005.08.24 07:30:00 -
[62]
Limited tch2 BPO's for generic high prices is mainly CCP's fault.
but in this case its entialy the communities 
----------------------------------------------
My vid(s)
http://www.eve-files.com/media/07/VIDSKIE.wmv |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.24 08:10:00 -
[63]
I'll throw in my opinion now. The point is moot but since our corp was part of the original controvesy, what the heck.
Khatred was doing a noble thing trying to ensure fair prices to a broad player base. I think he implemention was lacking. Some of the more blunt posts in the thread addressed that so I wont.
Two lasting legacies come out of this for me though.
1) "Economic warfare" (or whatever you want to class it as) doesn't really work in EVE. The fact that someone had to do a workaround in the form of a webshop proves this. EVE should have basic tools to limit who you can sell to.
2) T2 remains as farcial as ever. It's an artificially low supply where CCP play God. The "haves" are governed by luck and not skill (at least initially). I'd like to think a totally honest dev would admit the whole system is a cluster**** but to change it now would require a lot of bravery.
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.08.24 09:50:00 -
[64]
Hey Khatred - love the shop :)
Here's my inpuy: program the webshop so you cant make a 'wrong' order - ie. an order that breaks the rules.
Deny orders from ppl in NPC corps or sub 5 person corps to avoid taking advantage of the prices.
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
Drilla
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Posted - 2005.08.24 09:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
but to change it now would require a lot of bravery.
They are changing it - in Kali there's a rework so there's offered 1 new BPO of _all_ T2 bpo's every month. It'll open the market slowly but will ensure that in the long run there's more fair pricing on T2 stuff.
Take Deimos - it costs roughly 50m to make and is sold for 110-120m on market.
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:55:00 -
[66]
Ok, thank you for the support posts, thank you for the posts that presented good arguments, no <3 for the flaming posts.
After much thinking and re-thinking and more thinking we decided the way to go it's the market. We will play by the supply/demand of Heimatar region and battle our market competitors.
Less stress, less work, more fun
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Saladin
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Posted - 2005.08.24 14:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Drilla
Originally by: Deja Thoris
but to change it now would require a lot of bravery.
They are changing it - in Kali there's a rework so there's offered 1 new BPO of _all_ T2 bpo's every month. It'll open the market slowly but will ensure that in the long run there's more fair pricing on T2 stuff.
Take Deimos - it costs roughly 50m to make and is sold for 110-120m on market.
With today's component prices a Deimos is probably a little less than 40M to make.
I don't think BPO's should be offered to people who did not take the time to do the agent missions, gain standing and train to use R&D agents, and in some cases train very long skills to be able to use multiple ones. Many people complain it is too easy or requires no effort, and more often than not they are people who only have one level 1 agent or didnt make the slightest effort to get one at all. I got lucky, but it took a lot of effort and a lot of waiting.
As for Kali, I don't think anything is written in stone yet, but increasing the BPO releases is not the way to go. A Deimos bpo for instance lets you make 5/week. A new Deimos bpo would only add an extra 5 ships to the entire game/week, assuming the owner is not taking a time out to research it.
T2 stuff takes a long time to build, and that time, whether people admit it or not, plays a big role in pricing. People like to move their product quickly. They don't want to accumulate an inventory, because an inventory represents money invested with no return (i.e. you paid money for raw materials and only get a return on it when you sell the product). So for me not to accumulate a stockpile of HACs, I only have to sell one every 36 hours (time to build). So, with a little trial an error I find the price and it becomes my standard. If I had to sell one every 10 hours the price would drop further and further. Changing the production time will really affect the market and benifit the producer and customer. Giving out one new t2 bpo (which may or may not be a HAC bpo) per month is a drop in the pond.
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Raytesh
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:27:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Raytesh on 24/08/2005 15:37:16
More bpos will be needed. Although most people dont believe it or dont know about it the orginal plan of CCP was to have 5 tech levels. So things will only get more interesting as the game goes on.
As for the shop it was a revolutionary idea. But another idea would be to accept bulk orders... From alliances only and very large corporations. Accepting orders that only total in the billions of isk. I know that 0.0 alliances that dont have a lot of those bpos would be interested in getting some equipment.
The blacklist was a little extreme but with a little refining it could be made to work. But without things going on the EVE market it will eventually crash. Its all just now stabilizing. But good idea.
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:13:00 -
[69]
its a shame to see u store close...... was really a good one and a shame to see this happens ;(
1 question...
are u still gona sell ship just by using market? whit then offcourse higher prices?
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.08.24 18:23:00 -
[70]
Edited by: R31D on 24/08/2005 18:27:32
My PC was broken and so I wasn't able to buy anything from you guys. Big dissapointment on my end but I guess it's not your fault. I'm really hoping you guys can get another webshop up because otherwise I can see a lot of re-selling going on. Good luck in future enterprises and I'm going to have to hope my PC is fixed (I'm using a crappy PC that runs Internet Explorer and not much else atm) in time to get down to heimatar before stock run out
Free bumpage for all |
Jorev
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:05:00 -
[71]
Another entity tries to declare war on the laws of economics and loses! Stop the pressess, this has never happened before.
NEXT: "I am gonna jump off 10 story building and live," proclaimed area resident.
"I give him props for trying, but no he didn't make it" comments his neighbour. "I think it is the community's fault, I hope next one to try succeeds"
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Rthor
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:45:00 -
[72]
I dont understand the love for Khatred regarding this. He said that he will try something but he could not pull it off. Now he is doing what he was more or less indirectly criticising others for, i.e. he will make a fortune off his BPOs.
He is a good businessman but he does not need or deserve so much goodwill as he seems to get in this thread because he simply had an idea that did not work or, as he admitted, was too much work for him.
Now I will get flamed by Khatred's fanboys, the fanboys he got by promising something to them that he ultimately did not deliver.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.24 22:12:00 -
[73]
Rthor, you are nothing but a clueless flamer with a lot of envy pressing on your shoulders.
I tried to do something and I realised it's beyond my ability. You succeed everytime hypocrite?
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Rthor
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Posted - 2005.08.25 02:04:00 -
[74]
I wrote that you are good businessman but now you put that into doubt. Whatever.
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Velios
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Posted - 2005.08.25 14:11:00 -
[75]
Khatred, seeing as you are selling over the market now, why don't you just sell them for the same as all the other sellers? People WILL buy your stock just to resell it effectively making tonnes of profit from all your hard work.
Your heart is in the right place regarding prices, but imo its playing into the hands of profiteers. I would rather that YOU got the rewards for you and your corps hard work than some spotty teenager looking to make quick isk.
If you think I'm saying this because i sell a few T2 bits then that's not the case. Most of the stuff i pump out goes to corp members at cost or I have no probs selling the other gear through the market at top whack.
Your choice bud, but you alone will never be able to satisfy the demand enough to see prices come down market wide, feels like you are throwing isk to those that least deserve it or you want some kind of legendary "Robin Hood" status.
Good luck Khatred, make the most of what you have got for your corp and those closest to you, no one else will do that for you... quite the opposite. |
Zzazzt
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Posted - 2005.08.25 15:38:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Velios
Good luck Khatred, make the most of what you have got for your corp and those closest to you, no one else will do that for you... quite the opposite.
What he said.
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