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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:09:00 -
[1]
This thread is guided by one rule: You flame, troll or smacktalk, you meet our dreaded blacklist  . I am smiling but I am not joking
We are an industrial corps focused on manufacturing and selling ships. We have a webshop that has rules. Rules that when broken forfeits the right to use our services.
Some of the rules don't regard just the offender but his corporation too.
Now I come here to ask for your input. Should we limit (at least for now) the rules to just the offender until we are confident that everybody that wants to use our shop is familiar with the rules? Should the recently blacklisted corporations be allowed back and only the persons to remain blacklisted?
Your input is much appreciated.
PS. Rules of engagement remain, attacking a Lacuna Viators non-combat ship in Empire = the whole corporation gets blacklisted.
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NaNNeR HaMMeR
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:14:00 -
[2]
post the link so i can buy buy buy
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:15:00 -
[3]
I would say blacklist that person alone, or blacklist the corp and evemail the CEO to have this person ***** slapped around internally.
Id hate to see my corp blacklisted because one of our members was stupid enough to ignore the rules. 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Xanta
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:19:00 -
[4]
Linkage think thats the right one 
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Sforza
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:27:00 -
[5]
Well, you've created a new paradigm for selling T2 ships, I think its up to you how you sell them and who you sell them to. After all, no one is forced to buy from you.
However, the banning of the individual and a stiff note to CEO would be a good medium.
Sforza
Director - FU2
Council Member - Ushra'Khan
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: j0sephine on 22/08/2005 17:28:21
"Now I come here to ask for your input. Should we limit (at least for now) the rules to just the offender until we are confident that everybody that wants to use our shop is familiar with the rules? Should the recently blacklisted corporations be allowed back and only the persons to remain blacklisted?"
Perhaps it'd be good to blacklist individuals first, and corporations only after you have a few people from the same corporation gaining the blacklisted status..?
Btw no idea if it's possible, but it'd probably be good if the ships that can get you blacklisted when you order certain amount of them, had it mentioned on their pages.. or if there was some sort of check and warning when finalizing the order (unless it already happens, disregard it then ^^;;
(very nice prices on the ships, btw ^^
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Saladin
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:36:00 -
[7]
I think the whole notion of 'rules' and setting up a webshop is simply to garner more attention. Any normal person with that many bpo's would simply trot away and sell things on the market at the price of their choosing. Instead a web utility has been created, coupled with prices that get the most ardent critics salivating, and then a set of locks and rules to elevate your corporation's pride and hold prospective buyers hostage to the slightest infraction.
Anyways, if you were looking for an honest response, there's mine. Blacklist me away!
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:40:00 -
[8]
Cant u just program the webpage to sell only 2 units of per ceptor to the person a day?.
so u only blacklist people who have attacked u Khatred or ur corp members not innocent people who just loose their ceptors alot :p.
-Dan
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:53:00 -
[9]
Hehe, not going to blacklist anyone based on a well formulated opinion. But I won't get into what motivates us now, since this is not the topic in question atm.
The implementation of order limit was discussed but was somewhat difficult because of the 3 levels (1 hac, 2 crows,enyos,etc., 4 ships max) and we choosed to go with the "Rules" formula for several reasons but one main one: People cried and complained and complained again how Tech 2 BPO owners are nothing but greedy selfish bastards. What are we saying? Ok, here are the decent prices (not dirt cheap or cheap, just decent), would you follow a simple (but harsh) set of rules to buy them?
And to come to and end: We are not after recognition or insta win buttons or anything like this. Only one thing: Respect. No thank you, no appreciations, no *** kissing, just respect. You respect players for being better PvPers. Respect us for being better industrialists 
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.22 17:53:00 -
[10]
Already blacklisted o/
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Katya Ishenka
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:07:00 -
[11]
I would say BL on that individual.
I almost got black listed because I ordered the wrong amount of ships because i didnt notice which ships were in teh list.
Its up to you however, your shop and all that.
However I would personally give people the benefit of the doubt for silly mistakes at first.
Maybe add some coding to your site on the order page to show what can and cant be orderd.
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General Killah
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:12:00 -
[12]
In my opinion it's a little harsh. Even last night I was cringing cause even though I had read the rules, I wasn't sure if I'd ordered too many of something. I think if someone orders over the limit don't fufill the order but don't immediately blacklist them, it could jsut be human error.
Maybe if it becomes a problem and they do it 2 or 3 times.
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(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:18:00 -
[13]
temp ban on first offense, perm ban on second, or third? i do feel that banning an entire corp is too harsh. so maybe:
offenses
1:temp ban of person(1 week), mail to ceo
2:temp ban of person(1 month), temp ban to corp(1 week)
3:perm ban of person(forever), temp ban of corp(1 month)
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Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2005.08.22 18:49:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 22/08/2005 17:28:21
"Now I come here to ask for your input. Should we limit (at least for now) the rules to just the offender until we are confident that everybody that wants to use our shop is familiar with the rules? Should the recently blacklisted corporations be allowed back and only the persons to remain blacklisted?"
Perhaps it'd be good to blacklist individuals first, and corporations only after you have a few people from the same corporation gaining the blacklisted status..?
Btw no idea if it's possible, but it'd probably be good if the ships that can get you blacklisted when you order certain amount of them, had it mentioned on their pages.. or if there was some sort of check and warning when finalizing the order (unless it already happens, disregard it then ^^;;
(very nice prices on the ships, btw ^^
What she said TBH
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Be a warrior in game Not on forums
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Romulus Maximus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 19:00:00 -
[15]
TBH, its ur shop so its ur rules. But from what ive heard, u can be a bit strict 
A simple mistake over quantities shouldnt invoke a instant permaban imo. If there caught using alts etc to try and scam u fair enough.
And a simple limit on how many u can actually order would help. So u cant make a mistake.
Also, u said u cant escrow to an alt, then why include a box to enter the char name u want it escrowd to ? I merely want it escrowd to a char near Pator, so i dont have go the 40 odd jumps from 0.0 just to claim it when it falls off the list 
If i was trying a scam, i wouldnt have asked u  Think about it, as u know which registered user has ordered stuff, and u have already implemented the box on ur site.
Nice effort so far though, gl.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 19:38:00 -
[16]
Your rules are unreasonable. Let me explain, hopefully I won't be "blacklisted".
Your rule of not allowing reselling harms trade. All your ships are only available in Pator, a good trader will know that supply and demand is different in places like Agil and Esa as compared to Pator. Telling people your ships are not for resale is one thing (and obviously you don't sell in enough quantity for it to be highly profitable anyway) but trying to enforce it is another.
Your rule of not using alts is also unreasonable. How do you enforce this? How do you know who is an alt and who is an agent runner in an NPC corp?
Third, a lot of your other rules are reasonable, but nitpicky and the punishment is too harsh. Banning someone for asking or saying the wrong thing is lame.
Lastly, no business ever thrived by making it difficult to be a customer.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:06:00 -
[17]
Good luck with this but I agree with Saladin and Alowishus.
One of the wonderful things about the markets is that they decrease transaction costs. What you're doing here is trying to circumvent the market and increase transaction costs (while bearing some of that cost yourselves). Many tried replacing free markets, but the results were discouraging and in the long run it all fell apart.
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0Virtu0
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:18:00 -
[18]
I agree with both Saladin and Alowishus's views on this matter.
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I play EvE and I don't even get a stupid signature. |
Coasterbrian
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:45:00 -
[19]
Personally, I think you are entitled to whatever rules you want. I do agree, however, that perhaps you should blacklist only the person and not their corp, unless there is a ridiculous number of people from the same corp breaking the rules. I know that I would not want to lose my ability to buy from you due to one of my corpmates being a tard.
Soft and Crunchy 4tw! \o/ |
nitr0s
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Posted - 2005.08.22 20:46:00 -
[20]
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
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Metal Dude
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:12:00 -
[21]
Sorry, but if you are going to stop selling ships to whole alliances because someone smacked talked you in local or flamed you on the forums, there's not going to be a lot of people to sell ships to in my opinion.
Just because someone from my alliance likes to thrash talk in local, you are going to blacklist me? Well, you might as well blacklist all of [5], Stain, IMP, RA, IRON, FA and bunch of others right now, since we donÆt oppress our members and give them the freedom to be bad guys if they wish. That does not make us bad. ItÆs called freedom.
You should sell to all and don't discriminate at all. Business is business. If some individual does you wrong, then deal with him. To tell you the truth, he can make up an alt or have his friends buying from you and you would never know. WhatÆs the point? Get his money.
If anything, make up different price lists for friendly vs. hostile vs. blacklisted individuals. That would make more sense. Make money on hostiles and give deals to friends.
The truth will set you free
* Proud to be ATUK * |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: nitr0s
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
I disagree. Being based in the south I can pretty much promise I would never go to Pator to buy a ship, I don't care how much it costs. My time and dignity is worth a lot more than my isk. Plus it helps that I am rich as hell. To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
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nitr0s
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: nitr0s
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
I disagree. Being based in the south I can pretty much promise I would never go to Pator to buy a ship, I don't care how much it costs. My time and dignity is worth a lot more than my isk. Plus it helps that I am rich as hell. To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
Consider yourself a minority then
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Konietzko
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:34:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Konietzko on 22/08/2005 21:36:50
Originally by: nitr0s
Sorry to disagree with alowish and saladin, but in Eve T2 ships is like oil and diamonds. No matter what, there is too little supply for the 'consumer' to have any real ability to make buying decisions based on preferences you named. It doesnt matter where they sell the ships, buyers will come for the prices.
Actually, the supply of diamonds is not limited and is completely controlled by DeBeers. Which is why you should buy manufacuted or Canadian diamonds.
<ontopic>
They are your BPOs and your ships. You're entitled to follow whatever business practicies you put in place. Because supply of HACs and Tech2 ships is so limited, you'll have customers regardless of how well you treat them.
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Konietzko
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.08.22 21:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alowishus
Your rules are unreasonable. Let me explain, hopefully I won't be "blacklisted".
Your rule of not allowing reselling harms trade. All your ships are only available in Pator, a good trader will know that supply and demand is different in places like Agil and Esa as compared to Pator. Telling people your ships are not for resale is one thing (and obviously you don't sell in enough quantity for it to be highly profitable anyway) but trying to enforce it is another.
Hehe, 'trading' does not mean buying entire loads of ship cheap and putting em up for sale at a higher price at the exact same location. Because thats what will happen.
Just look at what happened when people tried to sell the cap recharger II's cheaply.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.22 22:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alowishus
To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
May I please be your supplier of tier 1 battleships, only 100mil each, i will deliver to your doorstep and kiss your feet and wash your clothes as well.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:01:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Store is closing 2005-08-22
All the current orders will be escrowed in the following hours.
Rest of the ships will be put on market in Pator.
Sorry for any trouble.
Kwisat Haderach
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:39:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/08/2005 23:40:37
You're wasting breath.
Why? alts.
And lmao.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sucram
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:48:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Xanta
Linkage think thats the right one
I dont know if it¦s just me... But i cant get on to that page... 
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 23:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Randay
Originally by: Alowishus
To me there is no difference between 100 mil and 65 mil. But going from southern Amarr space to central Minmatar space without instas sure does mean a lot to me.
May I please be your supplier of tier 1 battleships, only 100mil each, i will deliver to your doorstep and kiss your feet and wash your clothes as well.
Nope, I already get them delivered for 40 mil. You see, just because I claim I'd do something to save myself time doesn't mean I have to. Which further reinforces my point: that being difficult to do business with is bad for business no matter what.
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