I say they devote the expansion to ships and space then start a Kickstarter...

...to raise more money for ships and space.

Your idea is new and original. And also in the wrong place.

I don't care, F&I is the graveyard of all good ideas, mine deserves to stay here.

Let the players who want WiS to be finished (myself included) raise money via Kickstarter so that CCP can hire external developers to finish off WiS. This way the entire playerbase can get the best of both worlds, inhouse dev's working on FiS, external dev's working on WiS.

CCP, may avoid taking this route because they think it might harm their reputation as a company but everyone knows CCP are pretty radical and innovative. Why not let us (who want WiS) help you expand on EVE by letting you hire more dev's especially for WiS.

Your idea deserves to be buried under concrete.

Ok time to break out some maths.

500K sub base. Assuming average alt count is 4 equals 125K actual players. Assuming 3% of the playerbase cares about WiS enough to donate equals 3750 players. Assuming 0.1% of those are capable and willing to donate meaningful amounts equals about 4 people. Lets see, you'll need a dev team of about 5 people minimum if you want this in the next decade and assuming $62,000 USD per dev for their salary plus inter-corp support costs & entrepreneurial costs means it would cost about $620,000 per year to fund meaning you, as an individual, would have to donate $155,000 per year for WiS to work.

And then there's the whole topic of whether or not WiS could actually work beyond one avatar and a closet. Going by the beta test CCP forced upon it's playerbase I doubt most of them would be willing or able to purchase their own supercomputer to render hundreds of avatars in expansive environments.

Ok time to break out some maths.

500K sub base. Assuming average alt count is 4 equals 125K actual players. Assuming 3% of the playerbase cares about WiS enough to donate equals 3750 players. Assuming 0.1% of those are capable and willing to donate meaningful amounts equals about 4 people. Lets see, you'll need a dev team of about 5 people minimum if you want this in the next decade and assuming $62,000 USD per dev for their salary plus inter-corp support costs & entrepreneurial costs means it would cost about $620,000 per year to fund meaning you, as an individual, would have to donate $155,000 per year for WiS to work.

And then there's the whole topic of whether or not WiS could actually work beyond one avatar and a closet. Going by the beta test CCP forced upon it's playerbase I doubt most of them would be willing or able to purchase their own supercomputer to render hundreds of avatars in expansive environments.

[quote=Mr Kidd]
Hence. Ditch WoD, put that team on EVE Avatar and let them create a modular game capable of running from within EVE Online. They can work out how their funding streams will work and whatever is useful after EVE Online gets to be used for WoD.

WoD has been in development for years, and has been in the works ever since the White Wolf merger. It's not going to be scrapped.

As for Incarna, a corp meeting room and a bar with a poker table is all I really want to see. Past basic socialization and corp meetings, new Incarna features probably hurt more than they add to the game. It seems like development is already most of the way towards this goal, considering the CARBON framework obviously has multi-player support that hasn't been implemented in Eve's Incarna.

You all realize that WIS is already out.. DUST??

Houm. To keep it simple, let's consider 400.000 subs x 15 usd/sub/month =72 million USD/year (factors subs worth less than 15 usd, PLEX trade and the chinese and japanese subscribers)

Cloud Imperium Games is developing Star Citizen, whose funds are a bit short of 8.4 million USD, and that's going to be spent developing an AAA game in 2 years.

Of course, CIG is not running the most powerful server in industry and so and so. CCP's operational expenses are obviously higher than a game in development. Also, there is some "production magic", aka using an off the shelve engine and hiring a 3rd party with ample expertise to do the hard work (no need to reinvent the wheel), so CIG can stay small and yet afford the manpower needed for an AAA title. Having in charge guy like Chris Roberts doesn't hurt, neither.

But the point is that a whole AAA game costs less than two months of CCP's income.

If CCP can't undertake that kind of effort, well, sure they have their reasons. All in all they're developing three games on a single income source. Obviously I feel they're cheating us by developing WoD in a way that can't be used in EVE, which means that EVE is not planned to get any avatar content in any scheduled time, but for some reason CCP hasn't said that.

Avatars are the mother of all half-assed features abandoned for years to come until further iteration -and they've established a record for being the first featureless feature ever implemented in EVE.

It's a pity and a shame, but it's the way it is.

Ain't gonna happen.

CCP got "into bed" with SONY for DUST... so guess where most (almost all ?) the dev "resources" are going ?

You only have to look as far the "fantasy" MMO that has pretty much gotten ignored like a fugly prom date... so I wouldn't expect CCP to have the surplus resources for character avatars and station environments in WIS, either.

EVE is real -- and so are the resource limitations at CCP.

I don't care, F&I is the graveyard of all terrible ideas, mine deserves to go there.

You realize that what is currently and charitably called "WIS" is only about 1/10th of what it was supposed to be ?

Shooting in Space = EVE
Shooting on Sand = DUST514
Shooting on Stations = Future of WiS?

There is a lot of general support for WIS in the community, I hear it regularly, but share frustrations that in reality, after the vocal minority of Eve spoke out about it, its been kicked into the long grass never to be seen again.

However there are a significant number of players who want this in Eve.

I think that this is a really good idea.

Clearly WiS is suffering from the haters that generate a S**tstorm every time someone mention WiS (see this thread).
However there are a significant number of players who want this in Eve; I personally would happily pay for expansion (in advance via kickstart).
If 50,000 are prepared to stump up 30 quid; then I'm pretty sure WiS would be a reality.

Your idea deserves to be buried under concrete.

It's a shame that EVE has such small minded people when it comes to WIS. "It didn't work the first time so blah!" Whatever...

I agree that it was good CCP dropped WIS for the last 2 years to clean up broken features but sometime they need to revisit WIS. If not then I'll just find myself playing Star Citizen more than playing EVE.

Let the players who want WiS to be finished (myself included) raise money via Kickstarter so that CCP can hire external developers to finish off WiS. This way the entire playerbase can get the best of both worlds, inhouse dev's working on FiS, external dev's working on WiS.

CCP, may avoid taking this route because they think it might harm their reputation as a company but everyone knows CCP are pretty radical and innovative. Why not let us (who want WiS) help you expand on EVE by letting you hire more dev's especially for WiS.

Seriously? I thought "Load Station Environment" was the first checkbox to get unticked everytime people re-installed the game.

It adds nothing to the game as it is, and it's high time it was scrapped completely and save some server load.


Surely CCP could have a poll or something for judging how many people want WiS or not, and then decide if it's worth pursuing.

I'd love to see it but only at the end of a list of other important things in the game like pos revamp, corp roles revamp, total science and industry revamp, mining revamp, navy battlecruisers, forum auto whine-eraser.

Then maybe they could spend some time and isk developing something that people aren't really bothered about.

If I want to run around to do stuff I'll play WoW

Its probably worth mentioning that nobody ticks that button, because it also prevents ship spinning.

Seriously? I thought "Load Station Environment" was the first checkbox to get unticked everytime people re-installed the game.

It adds nothing to the game as it is, and it's high time it was scrapped completely and save some server load.


Surely CCP could have a poll or something for judging how many people want WiS or not, and then decide if it's worth pursuing.

I'd love to see it but only at the end of a list of other important things in the game like pos revamp, corp roles revamp, total science and industry revamp, mining revamp, navy battlecruisers, forum auto whine-eraser.

Then maybe they could spend some time and isk developing something that people aren't really bothered about.

If I want to run around to do stuff I'll play WoW

I can't see a kickstarter like that getting off the ground.

Besides, if CCP can afford to produce a second game, they can afford to come through on their promises with the money they have now.

I don't believe CCP is able to do anything interesting in less than 3-5 years of work. Won't invest in the idea upfront.

However I'll purchase WiS if it will cost as usual game expansion ($50) and will have at least common halls + chat bubbles + station windows. Though actual gameplay could be nice too (exploration, PvE a-la ME2 or Defiance, clothing craft and loot maybe)

It's a shame that EVE has such small minded people when it comes to WIS. "It didn't work the first time so blah!" Whatever...

There's more awe in this single SC concept art:

Moscow 30th century concept art

Than in the whole Incarna in its good times before release.

My vision for WiS is as follows:
You click the door. You select the player you want to visit from a list.
The other player who is in his CQ right now recieves a popup message.
The other player clicks "accept" and you're spawned in his CQ.

Next step: Create a hall.
You click the door. You select the hall. You're spawned next to a door in the hall.

Next step: Create bars and clubs.
You click the door. you select the bar or the club. You're spawned next to a door in the bar or the club.

Too many players in one room? Make it instanced. Limit the player amount. It's not like there is only one hall or club in a station.

This can't be really that hard to make...

Its probably worth mentioning that nobody ticks that button, because it also prevents ship spinning.

There was actually a casual poll in GD that implicated half of Eve has CQ on, and the other half doesn't. Of the half that doesn't, they said they only didn't have it on for resource reasons. So if CCP put some time into resource management for the engine (plus the fact people are progressively upgrading hardware) then 3/4s of Eve would have it on. If you actually gave a purpose to the Avatar content stuff then you might even get some of the remaining quarter.

Ok time to break out some maths.

500K sub base. Assuming average alt count is 4 equals 125K actual players. Assuming 3% of the playerbase cares about WiS enough to donate equals 3750 players. Assuming 0.1% of those are capable and willing to donate meaningful amounts equals about 4 people. Lets see, you'll need a dev team of about 5 people minimum if you want this in the next decade and assuming $62,000 USD per dev for their salary plus inter-corp support costs & entrepreneurial costs means it would cost about $620,000 per year to fund meaning you, as an individual, would have to donate $155,000 per year for WiS to work.

And then there's the whole topic of whether or not WiS could actually work beyond one avatar and a closet. Going by the beta test CCP forced upon it's playerbase I doubt most of them would be willing or able to purchase their own supercomputer to render hundreds of avatars in expansive environments.

Wow, now that poll surely is representative!

In your mind, according to that post:

100% who did that poll represent 100% of GD,
which represents 100% of the forums,
which represents 100% of the playerbase.

Of 100%, 50% say yes and 50% say no.
Of the 50% who say no, all say "x".

As 50% say "x", we only need to fix "x" and we reach a 100% agreement !

EPIC FACEPALM !


You can't seriously be taking this seriously. PLEASE have someone read out loud your
own words for you, so you hopefully realize the nonsense you have written.

I really can't believe the lack of brains you display here !


(edit: the reason why i don't use CQ is because it's pointless having it. I'd love to have actual stations
to walk through, play games with others or annoy them to hell, but the CQ alone adds no gameplay)

blabla

You used data of a bull post to support whatever
idea you had in mind (ready our own post) and now you come up with this.

It's still bull. No valueable data given. You can't even see that.

No point in talking to you, if you lack the ability to admit that you wrote bull.

You can't see what isn't there. I can see that your an idiot though. Go read a good book on science. Bad Science is a good one. It even talks about some of the common flawed logic arguments people (read you) use.

There was actually a casual poll in GD that implicated half of Eve has CQ on, and the other half doesn't. Of the half that doesn't, they said they only didn't have it on for resource reasons.

So if CCP put some time into resource management for the engine (plus the fact people are progressively upgrading hardware) then 3/4s of Eve would have it on.

If you actually gave a purpose to the Avatar content stuff then you might even get some of the remaining quarter.

A bullshit claim you make based on a bullshit poll which indicates nothing at all. "if CCP did" ... "people would have it on".

An additional claim you make, also building on the crap you wrote in the first quote.

You're all definite there. Taking a bullshit poll (50% ... LOL) and making a claim based on that bullshit poll.

And you wanna tell me i'm stupid ?

Sure. %)

No point in talking to you, if you lack the ability to admit that you wrote bull.

Since people are pulling "statistics" out of their arses here's some meaningless "statistics" from me :

Out of the people I know in Eve only one has CQ turned on and he's the only one interested in WiS. Everyone else thinks its a pile of crap and have it turned off for that reason. Nothing to do with "resources", its because they think its **** and has no place in the game.

If I wanted to walk around in a game then I have plenty of choice of games to play.

more

Incarna promised avatars and social spaces.(and they ignored the early calls of "we want a game not the sims").

As far as I'm concerned, Incarnageddon had nothing to do with the expansion's actual content (or lack thereof), but rather a combination of CCP yet again failing to deliver, plus the greed letter, plus the cash shop with ludicrous prices in a paid MMO. These three things created a perfect storm. That is all.

Stuff

Your post reduces all parts of the community into two equally sized parts.
Those who can't run it and those who don't "have enough content/see the point".

Thing is, had CCP delivered The Sims in EVE, people would have been happy. As it is, they delivered only the character creation portion of The Sims, and nothing else. Naturally they got burned for it.

But honestly, what's wrong with The Sims? You do know it is the best-selling PC game of all time, right? Not WoW, not CoD, and certainly not EVE. So the whole "we want a game, not the sims" is a crock. A complete and total crock. Plenty of people would have loved some avatar elements of The Sims in EVE universe - as long as it would eventually allow hunting down people hiding in stations and shooting them in the face.

As far as I'm concerned, Incarnageddon had nothing to do with the expansion's actual content (or lack thereof), but rather a combination of CCP yet again failing to deliver, plus the greed letter, plus the cash shop with ludicrous prices in a paid MMO. These three things created a perfect storm. That is all.

ccp Finnish what you started or no balls.

As far as I'm concerned, Incarnageddon had nothing to do with the expansion's actual content (or lack thereof), but rather a combination of CCP yet again failing to deliver, plus the greed letter, plus the cash shop with ludicrous prices in a paid MMO. These three things created a perfect storm. That is all.

While yeah its resource hungry, if WIS has a development cycle of 2/3 years most PC's will be able to handle it quite well I believe.

As long as I don't have to pay for that bullshit, sure.

I just do not get guys that are not interested in WiS. Who would not want to explore a space station or wreck? Why would you not want to make Eve even better and more immersive?

What is it with these guys that say its all about spaceships, when walking around in your character would still be about spaceships only ones you can see the outside of or flying outside through the bars Windows.

I think it is some kind of macho prick relax now to put down WiS. It is very annoying now though as this game needs new off spaceship things in it.

I just do not get guys that are not interested in WiS. Who would not want to explore a space station or wreck? Why would you not want to make Eve even better and more immersive?
.

Or .. or Why not the team who develop DUST just bring some Code to the matrix to open the door and make capsuleers Go on planets or Aboard Structures In space like scouting in Sleepers structures or abandonned structures , etc etc
And make a Big HALL ( cantina ) per systems ( on the Temperate planet )

And why NOT one day on a temperate planet DUST Vs EVE in a FPS style

That all depends on how you choose to slice it. It really could be condensed into GÇ£arroganceGÇ¥, but the details that make up that display are a couple more than just those thee points. Also, it depends on what you mean by GÇ£not the actual contentGÇ¥. Sure, if the alternate UI (which is all the CQ is) had been released as a single bulletpoint in a proper expansion, it might not have caused as many waves as it did, but since the content was at the very centre of the expansion hype, the fact that it lacked any content would have caused quite a stir even without the other failures surrounding its release.

I would be ready to pay full game price for WIS expansion if it was sold in stores.

I think there should be poll that asks how many people are ready to do the same.

WIS expansion could be free but there could also be boxed version out. It contains code that gives lots of aurum and only one code can be registered / account. That makes boxed version worth buying.

Does a concept video exist from ccp as to what WIS is? I'd like to see from ccp as to what WIS is supposed to be...ideally the full potential example of WIS. Does it exist? Because I have no idea what WIS is aside from random player comments.

It seems CCP doesn't want our money. Meanwhile - purchased Deluxe ($99) + DLC ($30) for Defiance to get a piece of avatar-based sci-fi MMO.

Does a concept video exist from ccp as to what WIS is? I'd like to see from ccp as to what WIS is supposed to be...ideally the full potential example of WIS. Does it exist? Because I have no idea what WIS is aside from random player comments.

Honestly, while I still eventually hope to see WiS, it's just that. EVENTUALLY.

I want to see POSes and various other issues get un****ed first, as they are far more important to FiS.

Until then, CQ is off.

So CCP it is not just a few people wanting Avatar based gameplay it is the vast majority of players, ex-players and potential new players.

Let the players who want WiS to be finished (myself included) raise money via Kickstarter so that CCP can hire external developers to finish off WiS. This way the entire playerbase can get the best of both worlds, inhouse dev's working on FiS, external dev's working on WiS.

CCP, may avoid taking this route because they think it might harm their reputation as a company but everyone knows CCP are pretty radical and innovative. Why not let us (who want WiS) help you expand on EVE by letting you hire more dev's especially for WiS.

EDIT (adding this from a later post I made): Also if CCP added to the content that could be worked on and essentially produce WiS as a side-expansion (free for EVE players ofcourse) they could garner much more money from Kickstarter as people who play games like Second Life or Habbo Hotel may donate too. Having these online-socialites in EVE would fill the peasent, servant social classes and would elevate us Capsuleers to the Cybernetic Demons we are. We could pick them up in haulers for their precious ISK and get destroyed by other players killing them permanently, we could hire them to repair our ships and pay them peanuts for their hard work. If CCP added to WiS (as specified) we wouldn't have NPC's in stations but a worker class of players who are limited to living on a space station while we roam the galaxies blowing up suns and jumping lightyears.

CCP should concentrate on adding new space content (new ships, new sites, new systems perhaps) rather than station content so that the barbies can play with looking pretty and run around in a station.

It's internet spaceships, not my little pony goes spacestation...

After Oddesy (which brings in new stuff), I personally think new systems and space should be brought in. Jove or otherwise. That way the game for colonising the new space game begin again. Also, if new space is opened, it will mean that some alliances will be left vunerable while trying to fight other alliances when they try and take it. Interesting.

I dont see why stations need to be brought in for this "majority" (proof that its a majority please and not 2%) of players. New space content!!!

EDIT: If you want to run around in the EVE universe, purchase a PS3 and get DUST 514...

The name of the game is "Eve Online"

Which implies the vastness of an entire universe and all things with in it... we do not need new ships, we barely are utilizing all the ones we have as it is..... most alliance keyhole their members into a specific set of ships and that is that... when is the last time you saw the gallente recon being used for more then a sniper pointer?


We do not need more systems, there are plenty and our player base (not subbed accounts), barely know what to do with the ones we have. Most of them just create big alliances and donuts of blue and just derp around teching up.... What would new systems bring to the game that are not already there?


Ships in space is ten years old, and I know you guys are new, but alot of us have been around for all ten of those years, and are tired of ships in space, we are tired of hearing the same dull drums of people who have been playing a couple years and think that they know what this game is about...


It's not about being barbies in space, it is about giving the player base something to relate to then just oyr assets, an attachment that can not be lost.. I am more then my ship.. I am Alekksander... I am a MAN IN SPACE! I want to be able to do that, I want to be able to see and reflect on that.. I am more then my ship, I am my self!

This has been a plan sense EVE started and it was one of the reasons I got into the game way back in the day.. and trained my character (not purchased one like most of you pansies), because I wanted to be able to walk around, to gamble and to add another layer to a sand box that isnt even a sand box... its a freaking fish bowl....

I have dust, and it makes me want to walk around in eve even more!

"It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself."

I feel eve should take a page out of your book and do just that. Explore WiS, see where the limits are and move beyond them.

The community was outraged with WiS not because of WiS but because it was the only expansion in eve history that didn't bring anything meaningful to eve. Most of want to walk around, even if we wont tell other people, but we want reasons to walk around, I dont want to play my little pony barbie bros either, but I wold like to have an avatar in this game.

Further more your graps of null sec politics is comical to say the least.. It will not weaken any alliances, they will form pacts they will take the space together, and then they will just simply co exist.. because no one wants to risk their coalition.

Yes I agree we need more space content, and they should not stop pushing out space content..... but there is an entire universe here that you are just simply ignoring because you want to be a whiney baby.

Why don't you learn to use the ships that are in eve already, and learn to fly all of them.. and you will find that there is not much room to have "new ship types"...... seriously... you can only go so far... unless you start making specialized ships for all of the mini profession... ohh wait there already is... theres a metric crap ton of combat vessels, of which only about 5% are utilized....

If anything CCP STOP bringing out new ships and do exactly what you are doing in the new expansion and fix the ones you already have...

All I want out of eve is meaningful gameplay I dont care if its mounts, stations, ships, or whatever... MEANINGFUL reasons for me to push the buttons... or ill just go play WoW

Mounts oooh moterbikes in station haha no, I know what you mean... But I was talking with a mate the other day about WiS, would it really add new content, or would it just simply be something to do for a week before you've already done it all again? Which would be incrediably saddening for a lot of people...

To be 100% completely honest, I would rather have more customisation options in the forms of clothes, looks, make-up etc. than WiS.

But then again I am a carebear who afk mines and has nothing else to do but stare at his avatar all day.

All I want out of eve is meaningful gameplay I dont care if its mounts, stations, ships, or whatever... MEANINGFUL reasons for me to push the buttons... or ill just go play WoW